FAA issues ground stop for all DC-area airports due to equipment fire(fox5dc.com)
fox5dc.com
FAA issues ground stop for all DC-area airports due to equipment fire
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/faa-issues-ground-stop-for-all-dc-area-airports-due-to-equipment-fire-federal-avaiation-administration-dca-iad-bwi-ric
64 comments
- this happens from time to time. Your situation is bad, but not unique. Other examples include: weather on Christmas Eve.
First step is get food / water, whatever you need to feel grounded. If you are calm, the agent who can help you will be calm and calm agents can work wonders. If you are angry, upset, frustrated, hungry, tired (all responsible responses to the situation) the agent will turn into a robot and not go out of their way to help you.
If you want to fly out; find a more senior agent (can be hard to do in a bigger airport). Don’t ask for one directly, instead look for the subtle signs: confident but slightly less put together clothing, someone dressed as a manager - but who is doing customer service, someone who is helping other agents, etc.
Then it’s a two step process:
1) ask them to put you on a standby list on a flight to get out of the airport, doesn’t matter where, just a pick a hub closer to your destination than the current one. It will take a couple tries, but at every flight, show up to the gate and stay until the door is closed and the airplane is pushed back. If you don’t make it, ask to be rolled over to the next one. Especially in weird situations there is constantly a couple people that do not show.
2) once you get to the other hub, kindly ask them to rebook you the rest of the way home.
First step is get food / water, whatever you need to feel grounded. If you are calm, the agent who can help you will be calm and calm agents can work wonders. If you are angry, upset, frustrated, hungry, tired (all responsible responses to the situation) the agent will turn into a robot and not go out of their way to help you.
If you want to fly out; find a more senior agent (can be hard to do in a bigger airport). Don’t ask for one directly, instead look for the subtle signs: confident but slightly less put together clothing, someone dressed as a manager - but who is doing customer service, someone who is helping other agents, etc.
Then it’s a two step process:
1) ask them to put you on a standby list on a flight to get out of the airport, doesn’t matter where, just a pick a hub closer to your destination than the current one. It will take a couple tries, but at every flight, show up to the gate and stay until the door is closed and the airplane is pushed back. If you don’t make it, ask to be rolled over to the next one. Especially in weird situations there is constantly a couple people that do not show.
2) once you get to the other hub, kindly ask them to rebook you the rest of the way home.
> the agent who can help you will be calm and calm agents can work wonders. If you are angry, upset, frustrated, hungry, tired (all responsible responses to the situation) the agent will turn into a robot and not go out of their way to help you.
Somewhat contrary perspective: the last time I was stuck in an airport indefinitely, everyone insisted everyone else stay put for indefinite lengths of time, because the delayed flight would leave “as soon as possible”. After several hours of this, I angrily insisted that it isn’t reasonable to keep people at a terminal hanging on indefinitely and that we’d all be better off if everyone could agree to reconvene at the next estimated arrival. A bunch of other passengers emphatically agreed, and the airline staff agreed then too. Then everyone went and had their food and drinks and whatever, and no one was angry anymore when the flight finally boarded.
Somewhat contrary perspective: the last time I was stuck in an airport indefinitely, everyone insisted everyone else stay put for indefinite lengths of time, because the delayed flight would leave “as soon as possible”. After several hours of this, I angrily insisted that it isn’t reasonable to keep people at a terminal hanging on indefinitely and that we’d all be better off if everyone could agree to reconvene at the next estimated arrival. A bunch of other passengers emphatically agreed, and the airline staff agreed then too. Then everyone went and had their food and drinks and whatever, and no one was angry anymore when the flight finally boarded.
And I've seen agents send away passengers who start yelling, and basically kick them to the back of the line for being a jerk (not saying you were a jerk in this scenario).
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how tired, frustrated, upset, etc. you might be. Everyone else likely feels the same and statistically it's very likely one or several people on the flight are in a worse spot than you. That doesn't mean you start getting angry at a United desk agent in O'Hare because Potomac Approach's radio is down. They didn't do it, they don't have the power to fix it immediately, but they do have the power and the right to fix it for everyone else first.
Honey vs. vinegar and all that. There are plenty of ways to let customer service folks know that you're upset without getting angry at them. Another comment in this thread puts it very well: "it can be very beneficial to override [(completely understandable) frustration/anger], and it'll immediately make you easier to deal with." Any time a flight is cancelled the agent immediately has 100-400 people to deal with. Half of them will be downright pissed right off the bat. When they only have 3 open seats on the next flight, they are not giving them out to the people screaming the loudest.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how tired, frustrated, upset, etc. you might be. Everyone else likely feels the same and statistically it's very likely one or several people on the flight are in a worse spot than you. That doesn't mean you start getting angry at a United desk agent in O'Hare because Potomac Approach's radio is down. They didn't do it, they don't have the power to fix it immediately, but they do have the power and the right to fix it for everyone else first.
Honey vs. vinegar and all that. There are plenty of ways to let customer service folks know that you're upset without getting angry at them. Another comment in this thread puts it very well: "it can be very beneficial to override [(completely understandable) frustration/anger], and it'll immediately make you easier to deal with." Any time a flight is cancelled the agent immediately has 100-400 people to deal with. Half of them will be downright pissed right off the bat. When they only have 3 open seats on the next flight, they are not giving them out to the people screaming the loudest.
Well this was apparently an unusual situation. Everyone has been waiting politely for hours, quite a few passengers and staff seemed relieved to have someone speak up and demand some relief, and when the flight left around the time of their final estimated delay it was calm and full of the same people I’d seen for hours preceding.
A lot of the folks around me seemed to resonate with “you can’t hold us here indefinitely” and the staff response was very agreeable. I don’t like that I expressed it angrily, but I don’t think anyone in this scenario took it as vinegar, just saying what many people had already been thinking for hours already.
A lot of the folks around me seemed to resonate with “you can’t hold us here indefinitely” and the staff response was very agreeable. I don’t like that I expressed it angrily, but I don’t think anyone in this scenario took it as vinegar, just saying what many people had already been thinking for hours already.
I am inexplicably reminded of the airport scene in Meet the Parents:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IOE4pN8Zro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IOE4pN8Zro
I don't understand how this scenario played out -- who is "everyone that insisted that everyone stay put"? Other passengers? Gate agents?
You can safely ignore other passengers, but if the gate agent tells you to stay put because the flight may board and leave at any time, you ought to stay within hearing distance of the gate.
Once my flight was delayed for a few hours due to an equipment problem, they told us to come back in 2 hours... then we found out that the flight crew timed out and they were bringing in another crew. The gate agents told everyone to stay at the gate because they were going to board as soon as the new crew was there. And indeed, 45 minutes later they announced we were boarding and 20 minutes after that they closed the doors and we departed... with a lot of empty seats (not sure if those people rebooked, or missed the flight)
You can safely ignore other passengers, but if the gate agent tells you to stay put because the flight may board and leave at any time, you ought to stay within hearing distance of the gate.
Once my flight was delayed for a few hours due to an equipment problem, they told us to come back in 2 hours... then we found out that the flight crew timed out and they were bringing in another crew. The gate agents told everyone to stay at the gate because they were going to board as soon as the new crew was there. And indeed, 45 minutes later they announced we were boarding and 20 minutes after that they closed the doors and we departed... with a lot of empty seats (not sure if those people rebooked, or missed the flight)
Sorry that could’ve been more clear. Everyone at the gate speaking on behalf of the airline and/or airport insisted all passengers stay at the gate because the flight would leave promptly as soon as the plane arrived, and repeatedly told us that they wouldn’t stay for any estimated time they had announced.
They were framing it like the scenario you describe, but they held everyone there at the gate repeating this and revising the estimates for more than six hours IIRC. And I guess if they had flown out ahead of that last revised estimate it would’ve been too bad for me and everyone else who felt relieved to go somewhere else for the half hour or so we had to roam around, but thankfully they were just starting boarding when we all wandered back.
They were framing it like the scenario you describe, but they held everyone there at the gate repeating this and revising the estimates for more than six hours IIRC. And I guess if they had flown out ahead of that last revised estimate it would’ve been too bad for me and everyone else who felt relieved to go somewhere else for the half hour or so we had to roam around, but thankfully they were just starting boarding when we all wandered back.
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> If you are calm, the agent who can help you will be calm and calm agents can work wonders. If you are angry, upset, frustrated, hungry, tired (all responsible responses to the situation) the agent will turn into a robot and not go out of their way to help you.
While I understand the rationale behind the calm approach, it doesn't completely align with my personal experiences. Initially, one might try to adopt a composed demeanor, but if the situation calls for it, projecting your genuine concern, frustration, and urgency can actually serve as a catalyst to motivate the staff to address your situation more effectively.
While I understand the rationale behind the calm approach, it doesn't completely align with my personal experiences. Initially, one might try to adopt a composed demeanor, but if the situation calls for it, projecting your genuine concern, frustration, and urgency can actually serve as a catalyst to motivate the staff to address your situation more effectively.
Projecting genuine concern and urgency can be done without including the (completely understandable) frustration/anger.
I think the broader point is that it can be very beneficial to override these feelings, and it’ll immediately make you easier to deal with than most of the other customers, which can lead you to better outcomes.
Was a road warrior for many years, and calm always got me the outcomes I needed. Airport staff already know you’re stressed and strapped for time. Everyone at the airport is. This is not to say that you shouldn’t be form and stand up for yourself.
I think the broader point is that it can be very beneficial to override these feelings, and it’ll immediately make you easier to deal with than most of the other customers, which can lead you to better outcomes.
Was a road warrior for many years, and calm always got me the outcomes I needed. Airport staff already know you’re stressed and strapped for time. Everyone at the airport is. This is not to say that you shouldn’t be form and stand up for yourself.
This only matters if your situation is easily solved, like if you want ketchup at the table and the staff is busy. Then if you start acting like a petulant child, the staff will bring you ketchup. However, in the airport situation, the staff has no power to control what the airline is up to, so they'll just tune you out. As you deserve.
I am not so sure. I make a point to try and keep my cool with customer service -they did not create the tire-fire, they are just stuck with it. Time after time, I see a raging ass scream and kick his way into some preferable situation the calm are denied.
Yeah, if you're calm, the agent will simply not give a damn, and if you're angry, they'll just stop working with you altogether, and call you "sir" a lot.
and urgency can actually serve as a catalyst to motivate the staff to address your situation more effectively.
Whenever I've had a role helping the general public ("customers") and started expressing "urgency" without being decently collected (rude, pushy, yelling, etc)... I've always gone out of my way to help them as little as possible, being technically nice while not being so, and merely making sure I didn't get blowback for it.
It isn't like the customer service folks don't feel for you at all: Your issue, though, is pretty run-of-the-mill for the employee, though. There is often limited actions that they can do. Sure, you'd like to have (x), but there is literally no option on the computer that allows me to do (x).
Whenever I've had a role helping the general public ("customers") and started expressing "urgency" without being decently collected (rude, pushy, yelling, etc)... I've always gone out of my way to help them as little as possible, being technically nice while not being so, and merely making sure I didn't get blowback for it.
It isn't like the customer service folks don't feel for you at all: Your issue, though, is pretty run-of-the-mill for the employee, though. There is often limited actions that they can do. Sure, you'd like to have (x), but there is literally no option on the computer that allows me to do (x).
Try to get a train ticket to Philadelphia (airport code PHL) or Newark, NJ (airport code EWR) and fly out from there. I'm sure lots of other people have the same idea but it's worth a shot. If Amtrak train isn't an option, there's also https://us.megabus.com/ which may be more affordable and have more availability.
I like Megabus etc. and have voluntarily used them for shorter hops. Slower obviously, but it's more relaxed than a plane, the seats are comfier, and your cell phone will work the whole way.
If you paid for the flight with a credit card check if they offer any sort of trip delay coverage.
Two weeks until the next flight? Is your destination somewhere you could drive?
It's a 10 hour drive give or take, but the challenge would be in returning the car.
Also the agencies I've searched understandably do not allow one-way trips that go beyond national norders.
Also the agencies I've searched understandably do not allow one-way trips that go beyond national norders.
As others mentioned, if you are in DC it is easy to take a train to Philly or NY and you can then catch a flight from one of the airports in those areas.
Can you try changing to a flight out of Philadelphia or NYC (different ATC centers) assuming they haven't solved this for you?
So you must be going to Canada then? Maybe rent a car to get to the border, then rent again inside?
That could work
Update; It seems like the few nearby locations I've checked are not allowing alternate drop locations
Update; It seems like the few nearby locations I've checked are not allowing alternate drop locations
I got stuck once at Pearson and ended up calling the various rental car agencies until I found one (Hertz) that had a car that had to return to NY state, so they didn't penalize me and just charged a "normal" one way rate.
That's incredible, I will try that. Thank you.
I did just find out that U-Haul has some that I can one-way rent, though they are expensive, closer to $750 USD, which is roughly the price of a next day flight.
I did just find out that U-Haul has some that I can one-way rent, though they are expensive, closer to $750 USD, which is roughly the price of a next day flight.
Other Uhaul life hacks:
You don't have to be 25 to rent a uhaul.
There are uhaul franchises nearly everywhere, at least compared to regular car rental outfits.
And a note: uhaul has two fleets. The local only fleet, and the one way fleet. The one way fleet has more reliable/newer trucks. If you're doing a lot of miles locally and you ask nicely, they'll sometimes give you a truck from the one way fleet.
Good luck getting home!
You don't have to be 25 to rent a uhaul.
There are uhaul franchises nearly everywhere, at least compared to regular car rental outfits.
And a note: uhaul has two fleets. The local only fleet, and the one way fleet. The one way fleet has more reliable/newer trucks. If you're doing a lot of miles locally and you ask nicely, they'll sometimes give you a truck from the one way fleet.
Good luck getting home!
You can drive to NYC and take the Adirondack to Montreal or the Maple Leaf to Toronto. These are both daily trains.
Why drive to NYC? If one is in DC you can just take the train, especially if then shifting to a train from NYC to Montréal…
I didn't know these existed. I was looking at them and they seem sold out for the next week.
Why would one normally take this route (13 hours and $178 while a flight is 2 hours and $213), scenery?
Why would one normally take this route (13 hours and $178 while a flight is 2 hours and $213), scenery?
I’m someone who often takes trains when I can, over planes. The scenery is sometimes nice, but in the NE corridor it’s largely just backyards and tree-lined alleys through industrial areas. More pleasantly, I don’t need to interact with TSA, I don’t get the weird derealization that comes to me in airports, I don’t get dehydrated or pressure headache, the seats are larger/comfortable, the internet is faster/cheaper, and finally, the carbon emissions are fewer per passenger-mile.
edit: and when I’m restless the train has much more space for light exercise or walking.
edit: and when I’m restless the train has much more space for light exercise or walking.
Make sure you are asking about pickup trucks, not necessarily a moving truck.
Do a rental for return and then call and change to an alternative drop off. They may/will charge you but it can work.
Have heard sometimes the non-airport locations can be desperate for cars and might waive drop-off fees if you ask to drop off at one instead of an airport.
Saves them from having to move a car from the airport themselves.
Probably car dependent.
Saves them from having to move a car from the airport themselves.
Probably car dependent.
One rental I had wanted $600 for “one way” but the guy at the counter told me to rent it for return and call corporate the next day - they said just drop it anywhere for $50 more and never actually bothered to charge me that.
It can all vary.
It can all vary.
TRy Uhaul if need be.
I got stuck at dca last week. Drive back. Check w/ hertz
Can you fly to Philadelphia/NYC/Boston/Baltimore etc?
Travel insurance
Airline is obliged to cover hotel/food if you booked round trip with them. They don’t advertise this fact for obvious reasons.
Go the ticket counter and talk to the person about hotel.
Go the ticket counter and talk to the person about hotel.
That's definitely not true for all cancellation reasons in the US.
After a cancellation due to bad weather, I was once given the option of a pretty ridiculous connection (5 hours cross-continent in the wrong direction before proceeding towards my destination) and getting a hotel at my own expense (the airline did give me a 10% off voucher though!) and flying on the next day.
After a cancellation due to bad weather, I was once given the option of a pretty ridiculous connection (5 hours cross-continent in the wrong direction before proceeding towards my destination) and getting a hotel at my own expense (the airline did give me a 10% off voucher though!) and flying on the next day.
Isn’t this only true if the delay is the airline’s fault? It’s certainly not the case for, e.g., weather. The airline will/did argue the cancellation is outside their control.
For the most part this is incorrect for US domestic flights.
If you are scheduled to fly in the next few hours domestically in the US, or foreign inbound to US airports like JFK, MIA, BOS, DFW etc
DONT
It is a massive cluster ** now.
Twin storms in Northeast, FL panhandle, and hurricane advisories all over TX and TN. Now DC doesnt want to be left behind with their own bizarro calamity claim.
Crew are steanded at random airports and no one is taking off.
Storms will continue for the next 3 THREE days.
Do yourself a favor, call your airline, and ask them to change your flight to next week ASAP.
Your mind will thank you later.
DONT
It is a massive cluster ** now.
Twin storms in Northeast, FL panhandle, and hurricane advisories all over TX and TN. Now DC doesnt want to be left behind with their own bizarro calamity claim.
Crew are steanded at random airports and no one is taking off.
Storms will continue for the next 3 THREE days.
Do yourself a favor, call your airline, and ask them to change your flight to next week ASAP.
Your mind will thank you later.
> Do yourself a favor, call your airline, and ask them to change your flight to next week ASAP.
I'm not sure I've ever been traveling for any reason where I have the flexibility to shift my trip by a full week on short notice.
I'm not sure I've ever been traveling for any reason where I have the flexibility to shift my trip by a full week on short notice.
The assumption here was that your trip will shift by a full week regardless, with the only difference being you spending that time at home vs being stranded at the airport or a layover location.
Just landed in DC. In the air, the pilot told us it was an air traffic control malfunction. Circled for 30 min. Other planes diverted to Pittsburgh. Dulles, Reagan and Baltimore affected.
> According to the FAA, air traffic was impacted due to a fire at Potomac Consolidated Terminal RADAR Approach Control (TRACON).
…
> Earlier reports claimed a fire at Potomac Consolidated Terminal RADAR Approach Control (TRACON) impacted air traffic, but an FAA representative told FOX 5 there was no fire.
Was there a fire or not?!
…
> Earlier reports claimed a fire at Potomac Consolidated Terminal RADAR Approach Control (TRACON) impacted air traffic, but an FAA representative told FOX 5 there was no fire.
Was there a fire or not?!
Maybe no fire but a release of the magic black smoke?
Looks like I found where that Iraqi information minister is working now.
If you're ever in DC and want a great view of incoming planes for DCA/Reagan Int'l, get to Gravelly Point.
[Map](https://maps.app.goo.gl/q2tU5nd7wDB8X5ko7?g_st=ic)
[The View](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsedKJtgoG8/?igshid=MzRlODBiN...)
[Map](https://maps.app.goo.gl/q2tU5nd7wDB8X5ko7?g_st=ic)
[The View](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsedKJtgoG8/?igshid=MzRlODBiN...)
yes, it's great, my son loves it.
if you're stranded at IAD check out the nearby Udvar-Hazy Center (air & space).
https://airandspace.si.edu/visit/udvar-hazy-center
if you're stranded at IAD check out the nearby Udvar-Hazy Center (air & space).
https://airandspace.si.edu/visit/udvar-hazy-center
Why is the Instagram reel mirrored horizontally, cutting the frame in half? Doesn't that totally ruin the video, or am I missing something? Power to anyone to edit and upload anything, but what were they trying to achieve by getting such a great video angle only to mostly hide the airliner from view?
Artistic license? Showing how symmetrical an incoming overhead plane is? And it's a rare view. It's an artistic medium over there which uses photos as the starting point.
Currently this page reads:
> According to the FAA, air traffic was impacted due to a fire at Potomac Consolidated Terminal RADAR Approach Control (TRACON).
> Earlier reports claimed a fire at Potomac Consolidated Terminal RADAR Approach Control (TRACON) impacted air traffic, but an FAA representative told FOX 5 there was no fire.
Well?
> According to the FAA, air traffic was impacted due to a fire at Potomac Consolidated Terminal RADAR Approach Control (TRACON).
> Earlier reports claimed a fire at Potomac Consolidated Terminal RADAR Approach Control (TRACON) impacted air traffic, but an FAA representative told FOX 5 there was no fire.
Well?
I have never seen BWI airport as busy as it was last night, an hour before midnight. Approaching the airport to pick someone up, the past about 50 cars on the shoulder of the road that were just waiting with their hazard lights on. Traffic to the arrivals area was slow as molasses. I'm told the terminals themselves are packed with people whose flights were delayed to 1AM, 2AM, etc.
FlightAware's MiseryMap shows that about 2 hours ago DC had 205 delayed and 46
cancelled flights.
This explains my flight cancellation at least. Yikes.
...how's that related to HN ?
That explains why it was so quiet. Can we get another fire next weekend, I enjoyed the lack of IAD traffic flying a few hundred feet overhead.
But yeah, there's understandably no chill in this area with regards to airspace monitoring. An errant drone merits an investigation around here, I'm sure when the radar went out people were freaking out.
But yeah, there's understandably no chill in this area with regards to airspace monitoring. An errant drone merits an investigation around here, I'm sure when the radar went out people were freaking out.
The absence of the constant background hum during the most strict phase of pandemic shelter in place was something else. I don't wish to re experience it under those circumstances but it certainly gave me a new perspective on noise pollution.
we bought a home during the pandemic. there was some noise then, but it is a lot more now. Even the single one home without noise that we saw now has noise pollution, too.
Gotta move out really far to get away from the noise
> But yeah, there's understandably no chill in this area with regards to airspace monitoring.
This is beyond security concerns-- radar makes things a whole lot safer and greatly lowers ATC workload. A ground stop pretty much immediately lowers workload and enables more manual oversight of the flights that are already in the area.
This is beyond security concerns-- radar makes things a whole lot safer and greatly lowers ATC workload. A ground stop pretty much immediately lowers workload and enables more manual oversight of the flights that are already in the area.
[deleted]
I don't live here and not really sure what to do. Other flights seem to be leaving just fine.