BOOX Palma(shop.boox.com)
shop.boox.com
BOOX Palma
https://shop.boox.com/products/palma
48 comments
I'm a Boox device owner and can confirm they declined my request for the GPL source code.
Same.
It's not good. Also, if you want to download an android app on one of their devices, you need to do it via their own app store type thing; the "official" google store app doesn't work out of the box and needs some to workarounds to activate. It's a Chinese company, so that's that
We should let the EFF know. That’s their whole deal, I thought.
That would be the SFC (https://sfconservancy.org/) I believe. Although Onyx is a Chinese company so little can be done.
I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't having customs block BOOX imports into the country be quite feasible?
Probably need to get the SFC or similar to ask a court to issue some kind of judgement about it.
Probably need to get the SFC or similar to ask a court to issue some kind of judgement about it.
Excuse me but what's the point of this? First I thought that it's a phone and I was really into it, but then I realizes it's just a phone shaped e-reader so what gives? What's wrong with the traditional e-readers that have the aspect ratio of a ... book?
If I wanted to read books on a phone shaped e-reader I'd just use my phone without carrying an identically shaped device for the same purpose, and if I wanted a separate device just for reading e-books then I want that to have the aspect ration optimized for e-books, not to mention the lower price tag that regular e-readers come with not something expansive just to read books.
It just feels pointless on so many levels.
If I wanted to read books on a phone shaped e-reader I'd just use my phone without carrying an identically shaped device for the same purpose, and if I wanted a separate device just for reading e-books then I want that to have the aspect ration optimized for e-books, not to mention the lower price tag that regular e-readers come with not something expansive just to read books.
It just feels pointless on so many levels.
Same reason that phones are shaped like that - it fits in your pocket, which is convenient. Kobo used to make a Kobo Mini for the same reason, although it has been discontinued for a long time.
Anyways, it is also not just an e-reader, so books aren't the only content you can use it for. A lot of websites look and work best when used with a phone-sized device.
There are also more people who prefer the smartphone size every year, just because it is now the default media consumption device.
It's also a great stepping stone if the company wants to enter the mobile phone market.
Anyways, it is also not just an e-reader, so books aren't the only content you can use it for. A lot of websites look and work best when used with a phone-sized device.
There are also more people who prefer the smartphone size every year, just because it is now the default media consumption device.
It's also a great stepping stone if the company wants to enter the mobile phone market.
>Same reason that phones are shaped like that - it fits in your pocket,
Most mainstream e-book readers also fit in most pockets.
Most mainstream e-book readers also fit in most pockets.
I’m a little puzzled as well. It’s a phone form factor, it runs Android, it supports 3rd party apps… so it’s practically a smartphone, but then it’s not actually a phone and only has wifi for connectivity.
If they sold a version that was actually a smartphone I’d be very interested.
If they sold a version that was actually a smartphone I’d be very interested.
Hisense makes those.
Why small eink android tablet cannot be quite useful? This is a reader device. Do you really need every shoe and slipper to be your primary comms device? E.g. there are small android handheld gaming consoles, you cannot use them as a phone too, but that does not, I mean, why would even
Why small eink android tablet cannot be quite useful? This is a reader device. Do you really need every shoe and slipper to be your primary comms device? E.g. there are small android handheld gaming consoles, you cannot use them as a phone too, but that does not, I mean, why would even
Well, there is a whole category of Android devices called tablets that (mostly) only have WiFi connectivity.
And would you be surprised if I tell you Sony makes Android based Walkmans that mostly look like a phone except you cannot put a SIM card in them?
https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders...
And would you be surprised if I tell you Sony makes Android based Walkmans that mostly look like a phone except you cannot put a SIM card in them?
https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders...
Some people have small hands and small pockets, and would be well-served by this device compared to larger readers. I personally wouldn't use this device, but I know some people who would get a lot out of it.
"If I wanted to read books on a phone shaped e-reader I'd just use my phone"
The phone is full of notifications, games, work reminders, and other distractions. E-readers aren't going to be peoples' default device for those purposes, so they enable greater concentration when reading. And you won't have to worry about your phone's battery life after a long reading session either.
"If I wanted to read books on a phone shaped e-reader I'd just use my phone"
The phone is full of notifications, games, work reminders, and other distractions. E-readers aren't going to be peoples' default device for those purposes, so they enable greater concentration when reading. And you won't have to worry about your phone's battery life after a long reading session either.
It's a eink device, just a bit smaller, as simple as that. You'll be surprised by how many people want to read stuff in the bed holding the device with one hand, and this is smaller than a kindle. It is heavier than Kindle but lighter than Kindle Paperwhite. Don't forget it has Android -- it is rare and some people view it as a plus.
You might as well ask why anyone would buy a Kindle instead of an iPad mini, and I don't think I need to answer that question.
If you look at BOOX website, they have a number products that may not make sense to you, but there is a market for those products.
You might as well ask why anyone would buy a Kindle instead of an iPad mini, and I don't think I need to answer that question.
If you look at BOOX website, they have a number products that may not make sense to you, but there is a market for those products.
>You'll be surprised by how many people want to read stuff in the bed holding the device with one hand
Every entry-level sub $100 e-reader is small and light enough to let you read in bed with one hand.
Case in point the Tolino Shine 3 which, at 166g is even lighter than the BOOX Palma's 170g.
> Don't forget it has Android
The Tolino I mentioned also runs Android underneath.
Every entry-level sub $100 e-reader is small and light enough to let you read in bed with one hand.
Case in point the Tolino Shine 3 which, at 166g is even lighter than the BOOX Palma's 170g.
> Don't forget it has Android
The Tolino I mentioned also runs Android underneath.
I've been trying to find information on actual battery life in practice – the promise of e-ink is stonking long battery life - and it looks like it gets 8-12 hours of "active use" battery life, unfortunately. [1]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-4ytrhTEf8
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-4ytrhTEf8
[deleted]
My Nova 2's battery life is also quite bad. Android takes its toll.
I am an avid eink tablet user (brand is irelevant, ~10inch form factor, good writing experience) and I love it. I can't imagine using the same technology for a phone.
To me phone is: a camera in your pocket, a wide array of chat apps for different friends and communities, a music player, a navigation device and a bunch of other similar tools. For others it's also a gaming device.
Swapping to calming eink is cool and all, but you give up a camera, you give up your fast mobile typing experience for chats, and you don't really get much back. You need a larger surface if you want to read, write or sketch comfortably.
To me phone is: a camera in your pocket, a wide array of chat apps for different friends and communities, a music player, a navigation device and a bunch of other similar tools. For others it's also a gaming device.
Swapping to calming eink is cool and all, but you give up a camera, you give up your fast mobile typing experience for chats, and you don't really get much back. You need a larger surface if you want to read, write or sketch comfortably.
this thing here has a camera. As far as typing experience, you can install swipe or whatever so typing is like on any other device with a touch screen
I love love love the high aspect ratio devices. I'd love to see more 21:9 or what-not mobile devices.
One things thats weird to me though... when reading my phone, I notice fairly often I'm really only looking at the top ~15%. I keep scrolling content into the same area of space, rather than viewing down.
It suggests such weird things to me. At simplest, it suggests using a device like this in landscape mode. But more, it suggests that pure consumption doesn't need a big device. Yes, we need to navigate & browse, and that takes space, but actual reading? When we and the machine are in-line, knowing what's happening, on a straight path? At that point we actually only need a very small display area to work very well.
I'm almost always glad when form factors get explored & tried. Markets are so centrist, regurgitate the already proven schemes without exploring boundaries. This is stasist & centrist, a self reinforcing cycle, and it is against my nature & what moves me, but I understand it. I salute the attempts at different. Even if, in this case, I'm not really sure what the major advantage is. Very short scanlines feels weird, feels like it means moving one's eyes quickly back and forth. But at least it's a friendly portable form factor, better than most epaper devices. I wish it well.
One things thats weird to me though... when reading my phone, I notice fairly often I'm really only looking at the top ~15%. I keep scrolling content into the same area of space, rather than viewing down.
It suggests such weird things to me. At simplest, it suggests using a device like this in landscape mode. But more, it suggests that pure consumption doesn't need a big device. Yes, we need to navigate & browse, and that takes space, but actual reading? When we and the machine are in-line, knowing what's happening, on a straight path? At that point we actually only need a very small display area to work very well.
I'm almost always glad when form factors get explored & tried. Markets are so centrist, regurgitate the already proven schemes without exploring boundaries. This is stasist & centrist, a self reinforcing cycle, and it is against my nature & what moves me, but I understand it. I salute the attempts at different. Even if, in this case, I'm not really sure what the major advantage is. Very short scanlines feels weird, feels like it means moving one's eyes quickly back and forth. But at least it's a friendly portable form factor, better than most epaper devices. I wish it well.
I don't know what I'd use this for, but the pictures are hitting that part of me that loves grayscale Palm devices really, really hard.
I totally understand that!
In fact, this comment made me remember that I’ve had a color filter accessibility setting in iOS that lets me turn the screen to grayscale.
Kind of a trip to use a modern smartphone like this, but also kind of… relaxing in a weird way.
Settings -> Accessibility -> Display & Text Size -> Color Filters
You can even set a shortcut to quickly toggle them on and off.
In fact, this comment made me remember that I’ve had a color filter accessibility setting in iOS that lets me turn the screen to grayscale.
Kind of a trip to use a modern smartphone like this, but also kind of… relaxing in a weird way.
Settings -> Accessibility -> Display & Text Size -> Color Filters
You can even set a shortcut to quickly toggle them on and off.
I wrote a Shortcut that triggers this when I enter work mode, which triggers automatically on a schedule. So, during work, my phone is a more boring grayscale device with a limited set of apps readily available -- super helpful for reducing distractability. When work mode exits, so does grayscale!
I have mine set to a red filter and assigned it to a double tap on the back gesture, which is a blessing at night in complete darkness!
Kit Betts-Masters has some good videos on this and other Boox devices, I think he said that the regulations on entering the phone market are a bit of a nightmare which is why this doesn't have mobile phone capability at the minute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5-eExd_F00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5-eExd_F00
I love the idea of this and want one... I've had to use various command-line or web UI in-house tools in direct sunlight on boiling 40°C days out in the field. Dreamed of setting up a Kindle with VNC or something displayed in a web browser (before I knew about the full-size Boox tablets) but had higher priorities.
This makes me wish there were more e-ink smartphones… Really nice execution on the hardware and software!
As cool as e-ink is, I'm fully convinced that LCD technology remains superior today in practice.
E-ink needs a surprising amount of voltage/current to change the screen, leading to a high "energy-per-screen change". LCDs on the other hand, are ephemeral. The liquid-crystals unalign themselves within fractions of a second, so they require a constant source (though very small amount) of electricity to remain on.
But the amount of energy per screen change on LCDs is basically free.
As such: today's methodology of showing information when the user is interacting (especially information that moves and needs to change within 2 or 3 seconds), is superior on an LCD screen.
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In fact, the lowest-power monochrome LCD screens are something like 0.1 mA (or ~100 uA) of power usage, meaning an e-ink screen needs to change once-per-15 minutes (!!!) or less to match this level of power consumption. (And the LCD screen can constantly change in those 900 seconds with full animation).
https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus...
The spec-sheet claims 12uA typical, 130 uA worst-case for this 1.3" Sharp memory-lcd (rumored to be the Pebble smartwatch's screen).
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That being said: e-ink is still cool technology and I'd like to see more designs using it.
E-ink needs a surprising amount of voltage/current to change the screen, leading to a high "energy-per-screen change". LCDs on the other hand, are ephemeral. The liquid-crystals unalign themselves within fractions of a second, so they require a constant source (though very small amount) of electricity to remain on.
But the amount of energy per screen change on LCDs is basically free.
As such: today's methodology of showing information when the user is interacting (especially information that moves and needs to change within 2 or 3 seconds), is superior on an LCD screen.
------------
In fact, the lowest-power monochrome LCD screens are something like 0.1 mA (or ~100 uA) of power usage, meaning an e-ink screen needs to change once-per-15 minutes (!!!) or less to match this level of power consumption. (And the LCD screen can constantly change in those 900 seconds with full animation).
https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus...
The spec-sheet claims 12uA typical, 130 uA worst-case for this 1.3" Sharp memory-lcd (rumored to be the Pebble smartwatch's screen).
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That being said: e-ink is still cool technology and I'd like to see more designs using it.
While I really do like memory LCDs... AFAICT they are and always have been totally unavailable at actually-high DPI (they hover around 200 and lower, which is noticeably below eink's 300, and far below modern phones at 400+) and large sizes (digikey has them up to a whopping 4 inches).
That's a complete deal-breaker for much beyond watches and small shopping labels. The biggest is just barely larger than my cheap thermostat's display. It's a great choice for watches (minus perhaps the low DPI), but not even slightly an option for ebook readers or even phones, much less larger signage or wall-art like https://hackaday.com/2021/04/11/a-fresh-e-ink-newspaper-deli...
I doubt that has much of anything to do with the technology, but you can only buy and experiment with things that exist.
That's a complete deal-breaker for much beyond watches and small shopping labels. The biggest is just barely larger than my cheap thermostat's display. It's a great choice for watches (minus perhaps the low DPI), but not even slightly an option for ebook readers or even phones, much less larger signage or wall-art like https://hackaday.com/2021/04/11/a-fresh-e-ink-newspaper-deli...
I doubt that has much of anything to do with the technology, but you can only buy and experiment with things that exist.
Oh my god, Onyx is such a weird company.
They could've made it an actual phone and I'd have considered buying it (their devices are quite easily rootable). The only competition (Hisense) is even sketchier.
This is just a weirdly shaped E-Reader, but with a camera for some reason. Crazy.
At least they're releasing something actually new again instead of the same hardware for the third time.
They could've made it an actual phone and I'd have considered buying it (their devices are quite easily rootable). The only competition (Hisense) is even sketchier.
This is just a weirdly shaped E-Reader, but with a camera for some reason. Crazy.
At least they're releasing something actually new again instead of the same hardware for the third time.
I'd really like to see BOOX focus on having a smaller range of devices that are supported with updates for longer.
They just have so many devices in their range.
They just have so many devices in their range.
Paperwhite is cheaper and bigger.
Phone is about same price, and higher FPS with color.
It's nice to see improvements in other spaces, but I don't need this.
Phone is about same price, and higher FPS with color.
It's nice to see improvements in other spaces, but I don't need this.
i just bought the hisense hi reader pro. it has 4G/LTE, a headphone jack, and (slightly) larger battery. thankfully it has no camera (i hate camera bumps and i have enough of them), unlike the palma. my only real gripes with the hi reader pro are the lack of sd-card slot and no easily user-serviceable battery.
Opening this on mobile automatically redirects to an ecommerce website...
A security hazard in September 2026. There should be laws against this.
It's a $280 Android device. Look up Android phones that are in the same price range and see how long they are supported. Maybe get up-to-date with real-world, realistic expectations before posting comments like this.
I see a Google Play icon in their pictures. There's absolutely no way this thing could have the play store without a color screen, right? The pictures show a camera, what on earth are you doing with a camera strapped to an e-ink screen? This thing is baffling.
AIUI the idea is you use a camera on a big e-ink device to take pictures of documents, whiteboards, note papers etc. In theory it sounds useful, in practice, eh, phone for everything (because camera is better, and you still want to have a way to drop stuff from your phone to the reader)
But on this thing?
But on this thing?
How is color screen related to Google Play store at all? Try opening any website on an e-ink device and I can guarantee that the greyscale is good enough to let you understand what a picture is about. That's good enough for Play store (and many other apps).
I worked for a company making custom Android devices for industrial purposes. We weren't allowed to have the Play Store because we didn't have a front-facing camera. Google has a lot of (seemingly arbitrary) rules for Play eligibility, or at least they did back then.
I have a Boyue eInk eReader - that has the Play Store. I don't think there's anything in the Android certification which says a device has to have a colour screen.
My BOOX reader has the play store. Works fine. Not all apps work great on eink but most are serviceable (sometimes with some tweaks to the per-app UI settings on boox)
Anyone knows if one can run custom code on these?
Depends on what you're looking for.
It runs Android (likely even has Google Play Store), so you can build an app within that, and use their eink-specific APIs in some ways (iirc, not totally confident on that though. Might just be vanilla Android.).
The device itself is fairly closed beyond that though, and Boox is a fairly widely known GPL violator so you can't really get sources or run your own OS on it.
Basically all of this is true for all Boox products.
It runs Android (likely even has Google Play Store), so you can build an app within that, and use their eink-specific APIs in some ways (iirc, not totally confident on that though. Might just be vanilla Android.).
The device itself is fairly closed beyond that though, and Boox is a fairly widely known GPL violator so you can't really get sources or run your own OS on it.
Basically all of this is true for all Boox products.
It’s a modern Palm Pilot. I think I love it.
TLDR; a phone sized e-ink reader without the phone capabilities
The wiki page effectively says they are in violation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx_Boox#GPL_Compliance
> As of 2022, Onyx International Inc. has declined[20] to release the source code with Linux kernel modifications licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2 in response to a written request by a user. The GPLv2 license states that if a modified version of a covered work (such as the Linux kernel) is released, the corresponding source code must also be released under GPLv2.[21]