Fairphone 4 with /e/OS by Murena now available at fairphone.com(shop.fairphone.com)
shop.fairphone.com
Fairphone 4 with /e/OS by Murena now available at fairphone.com
https://shop.fairphone.com/fairphone-4-e-operating-system
111 comments
Please note /e/OS currently uses a highly insecure version Chromium from December of 2022: https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/browser/-/commit/911e34fe66...
This impacts more than just the default browser as it also provides the WebView Widget used by apps.
The WebView also cannot be replaced by a user as it is directly loaded into the process space of all apps using the widget.
See my https://divestos.org/misc/ch-dates.txt table that compares all the other systems update history.
This impacts more than just the default browser as it also provides the WebView Widget used by apps.
The WebView also cannot be replaced by a user as it is directly loaded into the process space of all apps using the widget.
See my https://divestos.org/misc/ch-dates.txt table that compares all the other systems update history.
> Occasionally the keyboard just disappears. Crashes or something. Killing the AOSP (Android keyboard) service restores it. Hopefully this gets fixed.
Are you using the stock keyboard? I allways install Simple Keyboard from F-Droid, Zero problems for years.
Are you using the stock keyboard? I allways install Simple Keyboard from F-Droid, Zero problems for years.
I get the same problem on the stock android on my FP4, both with the stock keyboard and alternate ones.
Stock, yes. I may have to give Simple Keyboard a try. Thanks!
I have been using Android with NoRoot Firewall. I aways use Gboard, really amazing keyboard software. The first time I let it "phone home" so it downloads whatever it needs for multiple languages. Then I block it with the NRF and it never phones home again (ET sad):
Just to be clear, Simple Keyboard does not have autocorrect, right? Also, there seems to be two "Simple Keyboard" apps on Fdroid. I installed the one with the most recent update.
Interesting. I've been using the Fairphone 4 with /e/OS in the US on Mint for about two months, and I have encountered none of those issues.
The issue that's bugged me is occasionally when I'm using Bluetooth audio, the volume "locks". For whatever reason it decides whatever the current volume is, that's the max or min, and I can only adjust in one direction from there.
The issue that's bugged me is occasionally when I'm using Bluetooth audio, the volume "locks". For whatever reason it decides whatever the current volume is, that's the max or min, and I can only adjust in one direction from there.
Yes, that one is weird... Using the device to set volume usually helps get it "unstuck" in my case, but to be honest, I didn't investigate more than that. Annoying, but easily fixable (for me).
Does the device feel heavy? Looking at the specs it's over 200g - that seems a lot.
It's hefty for sure. A very solid phone.
I would have greatly preferred a small phone but the FP was the one that met my other criteria the best. I don't notice the weight much, but it fits large in my hand and pocket. When holding left handed and trying to tap a button on the bottom right (browser tabs) my palm frequently hits the side of the screen.
Comparing to the old Pixel 4 I still have laying around, you would think it's a power bank until you saw the screen.
I would have greatly preferred a small phone but the FP was the one that met my other criteria the best. I don't notice the weight much, but it fits large in my hand and pocket. When holding left handed and trying to tap a button on the bottom right (browser tabs) my palm frequently hits the side of the screen.
Comparing to the old Pixel 4 I still have laying around, you would think it's a power bank until you saw the screen.
Fairphone 4 with /e/OS (by Murena) directly from fairphone website is grand, but if you want the new fairphone 5 then go directly to the murena website.
https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho...
Not available in the US, while the 4 is.
I’ve a fairphone 3 which had a faulty bottom-part (the microphone/charging module).
After a drop in water, the faulty part was completely broken so I tried to order one from their shop.
This part has been "out-of-stock" for more than two years now. I’ve a repairable smartphone that I can’t repair. Meanwhile, the FP4 and the FP5 replaced the FP3.
So much for trying to "not consume".
I hate Apple but my wife manage to keep her iphones 3/4 years each.
After a drop in water, the faulty part was completely broken so I tried to order one from their shop.
This part has been "out-of-stock" for more than two years now. I’ve a repairable smartphone that I can’t repair. Meanwhile, the FP4 and the FP5 replaced the FP3.
So much for trying to "not consume".
I hate Apple but my wife manage to keep her iphones 3/4 years each.
An iPhone can easily last twice as long if you treat it well, at least as far as the hardware is concerned.
Would you continue to choose the fairphone 3 if parts were readily available? It seems that the modularity/repairability reduces reliability relative to the iPhone.
My iPhone mini 13 is a tank possibly even more than the Nokias that I've had.
My iPhone mini 13 is a tank possibly even more than the Nokias that I've had.
Curious, did you try reaching out to them? This goes against everything they stand for, I would expect they would go to great lengths to fix this.
Question: did Fairphone do something about the build quality since v1/2? I used to have one (can't remember which) but the back cover broke after taking the protector off <10 times. I'd really like to buy one, but I'm not keen on using it for less than a month just because I'd like to have my phone clean.
I have a FP4 with MurenaOS, no issues with build quality. It is solid.
That said:
- fingerprint reader in on power button and triggers on touch (instead of on press), which means I often unlock the phone unintentionally when moving it. Annoying as hell.
- no audio jack
- a bit too big for my taste
- I miss a led indicator of missed messages
- push notifications or privacy (from Google), pick one
Still, if I lost this one, I would pick FP4 (or FP5 now, I guess?) again, no question about it.
That said:
- fingerprint reader in on power button and triggers on touch (instead of on press), which means I often unlock the phone unintentionally when moving it. Annoying as hell.
- no audio jack
- a bit too big for my taste
- I miss a led indicator of missed messages
- push notifications or privacy (from Google), pick one
Still, if I lost this one, I would pick FP4 (or FP5 now, I guess?) again, no question about it.
The one thing that I don't understand: for a company that claims to be so focused on protecting the environment, why couldn't they take from the frame.work laptop playbook and commit to 1-2 form factors and just work on releasing new modules independently?
I have the Fairphone 3 and I know that if I take care of it properly I wouldn't need to upgrade the display, but I would like perhaps a new camera if a module with a better sensor came along. If their software support is limited by the SoC they are using, perhaps I would be interested in upgrading the main board, but I could keep everything else after the 7-8 years.
Instead, they are expecting me to hold out for this phone as long as possible and then upgrade to whatever they are selling 5 years from now. Not only this will not happen (as I do not want a phone that does not have a headphone jack), this will basically condemn this phone to the same pile of obsolete-phones-with-perfectly-serviceable-displays-and-cameras that I have on my desk drawer.
I have the Fairphone 3 and I know that if I take care of it properly I wouldn't need to upgrade the display, but I would like perhaps a new camera if a module with a better sensor came along. If their software support is limited by the SoC they are using, perhaps I would be interested in upgrading the main board, but I could keep everything else after the 7-8 years.
Instead, they are expecting me to hold out for this phone as long as possible and then upgrade to whatever they are selling 5 years from now. Not only this will not happen (as I do not want a phone that does not have a headphone jack), this will basically condemn this phone to the same pile of obsolete-phones-with-perfectly-serviceable-displays-and-cameras that I have on my desk drawer.
For FP3, this is actually possible:
> The Fairphone 3+ is the upgraded version of the Fairphone 3. It comes with two new camera modules and audio improvements to boost technical performance, enhance the user experience, and improve sustainability. The new camera modules are also sold separately. This way, you can upgrade your Fairphone 3 by replacing the modules.
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047776791...
> The Fairphone 3+ is the upgraded version of the Fairphone 3. It comes with two new camera modules and audio improvements to boost technical performance, enhance the user experience, and improve sustainability. The new camera modules are also sold separately. This way, you can upgrade your Fairphone 3 by replacing the modules.
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047776791...
Because a smartphone has a different form factor and ecosystem than a laptop. Fairphone existed before Framework did, btw. They were probably inspired by Fairphone.
> a smartphone has a different form factor and ecosystem than a laptop.
But there is nothing stopping them from standardizing their own and building out support from other players in the industry.
My point is, during the Fairphone 3/3+ years they seem to be going in this direction. This is why that I bought in the first place. With the FP4, they went from "company with potential to disrupt the market and do good things" to "company that just follow practices from shitty Big Tech and does good marketing".
> Fairphone existed before Framework did, btw.
And? Just because they came before they can't change?
But there is nothing stopping them from standardizing their own and building out support from other players in the industry.
My point is, during the Fairphone 3/3+ years they seem to be going in this direction. This is why that I bought in the first place. With the FP4, they went from "company with potential to disrupt the market and do good things" to "company that just follow practices from shitty Big Tech and does good marketing".
> Fairphone existed before Framework did, btw.
And? Just because they came before they can't change?
> But there is nothing stopping them from standardizing their own and building out support from other players in the industry.
The smaller the device, the more difficult this is. Especially with modularity taken into account. A Framework has modules which are basically USB-C to X where X can be anything (TB, USB-A, USB-C, microSD, etc etc). Easy, if you have the space. On 5-6 inch smartphone? You don't have such space. Furthermore, the SoC is mostly an all in one package on smartphones, in contrast to laptops.
> My point is, during the Fairphone 3/3+ years they seem to be going in this direction. This is why that I bought in the first place.
I rather have them iterate form factor and on long term settle.
The smaller the device, the more difficult this is. Especially with modularity taken into account. A Framework has modules which are basically USB-C to X where X can be anything (TB, USB-A, USB-C, microSD, etc etc). Easy, if you have the space. On 5-6 inch smartphone? You don't have such space. Furthermore, the SoC is mostly an all in one package on smartphones, in contrast to laptops.
> My point is, during the Fairphone 3/3+ years they seem to be going in this direction. This is why that I bought in the first place.
I rather have them iterate form factor and on long term settle.
It's precisely because the device is so small that it should be easier for them to come up with a standard. And "modularity" is not a problem if your design is about fixing what these modules are.
All they need is to come up with a design where they can set:
- a standard dimension for the board. - a standard dimension for the camera module. - a standard dimension for the battery. - a standard location for I/O and power: display connector, audio, sd card, digitizer, camera, usb port, 2 sim slots, vcc/ground. - a standard location for battery.
That's all, really. They don't need to optimize for thinness, they don't need to optimize for performance. They don't need to optimize for heat dissipation. They don't need to optimize for screen size or to ensure that their phone has a stupid notch. I don't care if the phone ends up being 1 cm thick or if it ends up with a 3 mm bezel. First, the people who care about silly things like that are the people who buy whatever "innovation" is being pushed by Apple or Samsung. Second, the phone will likely end up in a protective case anyway so all these details are just stupid vanity metrics.
All I know is that they had the chance of having a repeat customer in me, but they are throwing that away if they expect me to keep buying whole new phones from them.
All they need is to come up with a design where they can set:
- a standard dimension for the board. - a standard dimension for the camera module. - a standard dimension for the battery. - a standard location for I/O and power: display connector, audio, sd card, digitizer, camera, usb port, 2 sim slots, vcc/ground. - a standard location for battery.
That's all, really. They don't need to optimize for thinness, they don't need to optimize for performance. They don't need to optimize for heat dissipation. They don't need to optimize for screen size or to ensure that their phone has a stupid notch. I don't care if the phone ends up being 1 cm thick or if it ends up with a 3 mm bezel. First, the people who care about silly things like that are the people who buy whatever "innovation" is being pushed by Apple or Samsung. Second, the phone will likely end up in a protective case anyway so all these details are just stupid vanity metrics.
All I know is that they had the chance of having a repeat customer in me, but they are throwing that away if they expect me to keep buying whole new phones from them.
Fairphone 2 went this way. Unfortunately it being more modular meant more hardware issues because of friction and such.
So if they went for a standard dimension of everything you mention, it isn't possible on a small scale. Because every device upgrade is an iteration. One might for example have more cameras or more sensors, another time you get an upgrade from microUSB to USB-C, another time the SoC gets updated (they went to an industrial grade now, meant for 8 years of updates). If you look at Project Ara or the project Dave Hakkens' Phoneblocks, these projects are exactly that, and they increase the size of the device massively.
> They don't need to optimize for thinness, they don't need to optimize for performance. They don't need to optimize for heat dissipation. They don't need to optimize for screen size or to ensure that their phone has a stupid notch. I don't care if the phone ends up being 1 cm thick or if it ends up with a 3 mm bezel.
Yeah, that is the gist of your message. You don't care about this, and that, and this, and that, while they need to take it into account. Not as extreme as a non-modular, non-repairable smartphone but still it has to be taken into account. The company is too small for various markets like one where they want the device to be upgradeable between different versions, one where they want a hardware keyboard, one where it is an e-ink screen, one where the form factor is small, etc etc.
For exameple: Look at the small form factor of iPhone Mini and <= 5 inch smartphones. They get axed because there isn't enough demand. And yet the flip seems to be a new rage, seemingly big enough market share.
I get what you described is what YOU want heck I've read it all on the Fairphone forums but the world isn't only about YOU. So that they lose you as customer, who cares? They get more customers in return.
So if they went for a standard dimension of everything you mention, it isn't possible on a small scale. Because every device upgrade is an iteration. One might for example have more cameras or more sensors, another time you get an upgrade from microUSB to USB-C, another time the SoC gets updated (they went to an industrial grade now, meant for 8 years of updates). If you look at Project Ara or the project Dave Hakkens' Phoneblocks, these projects are exactly that, and they increase the size of the device massively.
> They don't need to optimize for thinness, they don't need to optimize for performance. They don't need to optimize for heat dissipation. They don't need to optimize for screen size or to ensure that their phone has a stupid notch. I don't care if the phone ends up being 1 cm thick or if it ends up with a 3 mm bezel.
Yeah, that is the gist of your message. You don't care about this, and that, and this, and that, while they need to take it into account. Not as extreme as a non-modular, non-repairable smartphone but still it has to be taken into account. The company is too small for various markets like one where they want the device to be upgradeable between different versions, one where they want a hardware keyboard, one where it is an e-ink screen, one where the form factor is small, etc etc.
For exameple: Look at the small form factor of iPhone Mini and <= 5 inch smartphones. They get axed because there isn't enough demand. And yet the flip seems to be a new rage, seemingly big enough market share.
I get what you described is what YOU want heck I've read it all on the Fairphone forums but the world isn't only about YOU. So that they lose you as customer, who cares? They get more customers in return.
> One might for example have more cameras or more sensors, another time you get an upgrade from microUSB to USB-C,
There is no need to change your main board dimensions for that.
> small form factor (...) get axed because there isn't enough demand. And yet the flip seems to be a new rage, seemingly big enough market share.
Is it really? To me it looks like they push for the foldable phones while downplay the small display ones because they can ask for a higher price on the new gimmick and therefore have a higher profit margin
> So that they lose you as customer, who cares? They get more customers in return.
If they are favoring "get more customers" over "create a product that reduces global environmental impact / gets away from planned obsolescence", then they are no different than all the other companies and all their talk is just marketing. As with any bad ethical decision, it looks good in the beginning and it might even seem as something justifiable, but in the long run people end up noticing the fraud and move on to the next one that promises to do better.
There is no need to change your main board dimensions for that.
> small form factor (...) get axed because there isn't enough demand. And yet the flip seems to be a new rage, seemingly big enough market share.
Is it really? To me it looks like they push for the foldable phones while downplay the small display ones because they can ask for a higher price on the new gimmick and therefore have a higher profit margin
> So that they lose you as customer, who cares? They get more customers in return.
If they are favoring "get more customers" over "create a product that reduces global environmental impact / gets away from planned obsolescence", then they are no different than all the other companies and all their talk is just marketing. As with any bad ethical decision, it looks good in the beginning and it might even seem as something justifiable, but in the long run people end up noticing the fraud and move on to the next one that promises to do better.
The only problem with my Fairphone 3 being 4 years old and counting, having survived dozens of drops without a scratch and receiving updates to Android 11 is that I have to hold restrain my consumerist desire to buy a newer gen Fairphone with flashier features. But I guess that's the point!
I found that my Fairphone 2, even after I considered it obsolete for my usage, was an easy trade-in at a price point that could only be explained by the person caring about keeping it around for a good while.
Apart from the hardware flaws it is an excellent hand me down, as are all Fairphones. But so are all iPhones. Its just that recent ones are tougher to repair, making them less good of a hand me down.
Is the Fairphone 5 also going to be offered with /e/OS?
Yes, you can order it directly from the Murena website
https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho...
Not sure if/when that will be available directly from the fairphone website though.
Not sure if/when that will be available directly from the fairphone website though.
I get “not available in your country.” I’m in USA
You have to go to the regional shop:
https://murena.com/america/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena...
I'm not in the US, so I assume that's why I get a 404 for the product, but maybe it's just not available.
https://murena.com/america/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena...
I'm not in the US, so I assume that's why I get a 404 for the product, but maybe it's just not available.
I'm in the U.S. and it is still a 404
https://murena.com/america/murena-fairphone-5-availibility/
Yep, looks like it's not available yet with no launch date announced.
Yep, looks like it's not available yet with no launch date announced.
Ooh thats annoying, guess you'll have to wait until fairphone site lists it, could be a while though, maybe you could use a 3rd party mailing service or a virtual address from europe or something if you really wanted one now.
How does the fairphone compare with other modern smartphones of comparable price: iPhone 13, Samsung Galaxy S22, Google Pixel 7?
Is it comparable, or is it a generation or two behind?
Is it comparable, or is it a generation or two behind?
Fairphone promises height years of upgrades (apparently thanks to a contract with Qualcomm which sucks less), compared to the usual 2 or 3 years max in the Android land.
So it's cost per year is probably smaller than other devices if you manage to keep it this long. It being repairable probably helps.
(I don't have a Fairphone, but if I had to buy an (Android) smartphone, I would seriously consider the Fairphone)
So it's cost per year is probably smaller than other devices if you manage to keep it this long. It being repairable probably helps.
(I don't have a Fairphone, but if I had to buy an (Android) smartphone, I would seriously consider the Fairphone)
Camera meh, a bit slower bc processor is older, but fair production+ 8y of os updates (imo that's even better than iphone, bc many things in android are isolated from os, so even after 8y functionality shouldn't be affected that much. + add 1-2 more years from graphene os
It depends a lot of what you do with your phone tbh, I'm on a pixel 3a and still see no reasons to update, the fairphone 4 is better spec'd than that
I agree with you practically except that the pixel 3a has not been getting security updates for over a year.
I wouldn't run it with anything personal on it.
- https://endoflife.date/pixel
I wouldn't run it with anything personal on it.
- https://endoflife.date/pixel
I use a Pixel 5a with GrapheneOS with full storage encryption and even when it stops getting updates no matter the security situation I don't plan on upgrading at all if ever, I already don't want any banking or authentication to rely on a phone so that's not a big issue. Of course I still have machines at home running Windows XP (updated to 2019 albeit) so do not listen to me on security.
Windows XP airgapped should be OK.
Contrary to seemingly everyone here I'm not exposed to state level threats so I couldn't care less, as long as Google maps give me my direction and Spotify plays my song I'm ok
On the stock firmware, sure, but lineage OS doesn't have that problem
Great, so your security situatuon is now determined by two contributors that haven't moved on back-porting userspace lineageos to your device.
I very much doubt anyone is making kernel or vendor updates to upstream neglected components.
See https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices
I very much doubt anyone is making kernel or vendor updates to upstream neglected components.
See https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices
There are various bugbears, like an open issue with the camera only operating at a fraction of its supported resolution - https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/backlog/-/issues/4714
Unfortunately I don't think the team is big enough to support the device specific software at a high level, which is fine for a community project, but less so for a commercial one.
Unfortunately I don't think the team is big enough to support the device specific software at a high level, which is fine for a community project, but less so for a commercial one.
How does /e/OS compare to GrapheneOS?
/e/OS is focussed on not (or less) leaking data (-> privacy), especially to Google. Whereas I understand Grapheme OS wants to make it very difficult to hack the device (-> security).
This leads to different compromises.
I would say that /e/ is more normal end user friendly and GrapheneOS enables more security for those who need it, but less Android apps will work as normal.
GrapheneOS leaks less data to Google by default and otherwise than /e/OS and is also a privacy-focused project. I believe places like https://www.kuketz-blog.de/ and https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm will attest to that.
App compatibility should also be better with sanboxed-play-services compared to microG since almost all apps/features that don't require meeting certification requirements (e.g. Google Pay and certain banking apps) or privileged integration (Android Auto) should work just like on another Android family OS. Something you might run into is the hardened memory allocator exposing memory corruption issues in apps whereyou might not see the same crashing elsewhere.
App compatibility should also be better with sanboxed-play-services compared to microG since almost all apps/features that don't require meeting certification requirements (e.g. Google Pay and certain banking apps) or privileged integration (Android Auto) should work just like on another Android family OS. Something you might run into is the hardened memory allocator exposing memory corruption issues in apps whereyou might not see the same crashing elsewhere.
>> GrapheneOS enables more security for those who need it, but less Android apps will work as normal.
I can attest this is pretty accurate.
A lot of the Android apps you find in the F-Droid or Aurora store can be installed, but won't work since most require you to have Google Play services enabled which Graphene sandboxes by default:
https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play
A perfect example is when I was looking for a weather app and most of the popular weather apps were a no-go simply because they required Google Play services. I ended using Weawow Weather instead of several other options like Weather Underground, Accuweather or WeatherBug.
EDIT: I'm currently using Graphene OS on a Pixel 4XL
I can attest this is pretty accurate.
A lot of the Android apps you find in the F-Droid or Aurora store can be installed, but won't work since most require you to have Google Play services enabled which Graphene sandboxes by default:
https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play
A perfect example is when I was looking for a weather app and most of the popular weather apps were a no-go simply because they required Google Play services. I ended using Weawow Weather instead of several other options like Weather Underground, Accuweather or WeatherBug.
EDIT: I'm currently using Graphene OS on a Pixel 4XL
> but won't work since most require you to have Google Play services enabled which Graphene sandboxes by default:
I might be understanding this wrong, but note that GrapheneOS providing Google Play services as regular sandboxed apps should not have anything to do with whether an app requires play services.
So, if you want to use an app that does require them, you would need to install the sandboxed-play-services from GrapheneOS's Apps store then install the (Weather) app you need. GrapheneOS doesn't preinstall any Google (stuff by default), so there is an extra step.
I might be understanding this wrong, but note that GrapheneOS providing Google Play services as regular sandboxed apps should not have anything to do with whether an app requires play services.
So, if you want to use an app that does require them, you would need to install the sandboxed-play-services from GrapheneOS's Apps store then install the (Weather) app you need. GrapheneOS doesn't preinstall any Google (stuff by default), so there is an extra step.
Did you try YR [1] by MET Norway [2]?
[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=no.nrk.yr
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Meteorological_Insti...
[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=no.nrk.yr
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Meteorological_Insti...
F-Droid apps do not require Google Play services (that's part of its raison d'être) and will work fine on Graphene OS. Aurora Store, on the other hand, depends on the app in question. If it's a paid app that requires Google Pay, then it won't be compatible.
Is sad how much misinformation there is about GrapheneOS. If you can, just try it. Their sandboxed play services implementation is far superior to any other solution.
Compared to any other mobile OS, there is no compromise software wise on GOS.
Compared to any other mobile OS, there is no compromise software wise on GOS.
I want to like Fairphone, but it is completely made in China, which is a deal breaker.
Definitely a sticking point for me as well.
Lol no headphone jack
Yeah. :( I actually wouldn't mind getting a Fairphone, but a headphone jack is a hard requirement for me. Dongles are not an acceptable substitute, as they are easy to lose and prevent charging.
If you want to read their flailing rationale, you can find it [here](https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/983618898804...)
Follow the leader never needs this many words and for a niche and ethical brand, this is quite embarrassing.
Follow the leader never needs this many words and for a niche and ethical brand, this is quite embarrassing.
They do sell a USB-C to headphone jack adapter. I got one, barely ever use it.
Of course they _sell_ a headphone jack adapter. That's the point of removing it.
All the "weatherproofing" and "complexity" talk is just smoke.
All the "weatherproofing" and "complexity" talk is just smoke.
Geez, what a negative take on a company who do their best to be environment-friendly.
I got quite some corrosion on the headphone jack of my Raspberry Pi 2B. Not sure why. But either way, these adapters can be bought anywhere, and they'll work on other devices as well. Like I said, I didn't use mine much. Usually Bluetooth with an adequate profile is good enough. I doubt people hear the difference between Bluetooth adequate profile and 3.5 mm in a double blind test.
I got quite some corrosion on the headphone jack of my Raspberry Pi 2B. Not sure why. But either way, these adapters can be bought anywhere, and they'll work on other devices as well. Like I said, I didn't use mine much. Usually Bluetooth with an adequate profile is good enough. I doubt people hear the difference between Bluetooth adequate profile and 3.5 mm in a double blind test.
Apple's omission was the same garbage about complexity and space, yet no one in the real world had these problems. Apple is making a killing on Bluetooth accessories and adapters which have a much much higher markup than phones. Do you buy that SD cards or removable batteries were "too complicated" and bloaty for the end-user too?
If you're trying to differente yourself from Apple, it seems like a no brainer to include a jack especially since USB ports are needed for charging, battery case accessories, data transfer etc. all of which can't be done while listening to music.
On top of that, a "wobbly" USB port is like the top issue with phones outside of a cracked screen and an analog port is way more resilient to always being plugged in while in your pocket than any USB adapter ever will be.
My wired headset is going to outlive whatever bluetooth sealed-in battery garbage "works today until it doesn't" too so "environmentally friendly" needs an asterisk.
This is Fairphone playing copy apple. You can like Fairphone and their mission, but giving them a pass here is just playing into marketing bs.
If you're trying to differente yourself from Apple, it seems like a no brainer to include a jack especially since USB ports are needed for charging, battery case accessories, data transfer etc. all of which can't be done while listening to music.
On top of that, a "wobbly" USB port is like the top issue with phones outside of a cracked screen and an analog port is way more resilient to always being plugged in while in your pocket than any USB adapter ever will be.
My wired headset is going to outlive whatever bluetooth sealed-in battery garbage "works today until it doesn't" too so "environmentally friendly" needs an asterisk.
This is Fairphone playing copy apple. You can like Fairphone and their mission, but giving them a pass here is just playing into marketing bs.
Wobbly USB port is an issue of the past with microUSB and lightning. USB-C does not have this issue as the weight lies on the cable.
Batteries in some Bluetooth headsets can be replaced. There are iFixit guides available.
Most customers use terrible quality SD cards, and then QQ about them breaking. A burden for CS.
The exterior case design of FP4 and FP5 copies Samsung rather than Apple.
Batteries in some Bluetooth headsets can be replaced. There are iFixit guides available.
Most customers use terrible quality SD cards, and then QQ about them breaking. A burden for CS.
The exterior case design of FP4 and FP5 copies Samsung rather than Apple.
An always plugged in port risks damage and a damaged USB port makes your phone a brick, not so for an analog port that is inarguably more resilient.
Every major vendor's earbuds and most of their headsets aren't battery-replacable. This complexity moves outside the phone and onto the user when all of this was handled reliably by "lesser" hardware of yore. None of this makes Bluetooth headsets an impossibility.
SD Card upsells are so obviously upsells, come on. Yes using shoddy peripherals can lead to a bad experience and they're replaceable for a reason. You seem to be going out of your way to bias the corporate position. Using low quality batteries risks far more, should Fairphone epoxy their batteries in to save the customer from that too?
Killing of the aux port was an Apple signature move. Whether or not the case looks like Samsung is not the true legacy of this courageous stance.
This just seems very evasive.
Every major vendor's earbuds and most of their headsets aren't battery-replacable. This complexity moves outside the phone and onto the user when all of this was handled reliably by "lesser" hardware of yore. None of this makes Bluetooth headsets an impossibility.
SD Card upsells are so obviously upsells, come on. Yes using shoddy peripherals can lead to a bad experience and they're replaceable for a reason. You seem to be going out of your way to bias the corporate position. Using low quality batteries risks far more, should Fairphone epoxy their batteries in to save the customer from that too?
Killing of the aux port was an Apple signature move. Whether or not the case looks like Samsung is not the true legacy of this courageous stance.
This just seems very evasive.
> An always plugged in port risks damage and a damaged USB port makes your phone a brick, not so for an analog port that is inarguably more resilient.
Doubt it, there is no data to support this with regards to Fairphone 4 and 5. You'd think that if there was a negative data point on that, there'd be tons and tons of CS reports on it. On the contrary; Fairphone 4 has very little CS support requirement and returns. In contrast to other phones, as well as Fairphone 2 (which was, by Fairphone's own [paraphrased] words, a CS disaster).
Either way, the USB-C port on Fairphone 4 and 5 is easily replaced.
> SD Card upsells are so obviously upsells, come on. Yes using shoddy peripherals can lead to a bad experience and they're replaceable for a reason.
eMMC is more reliable. Practically everyone is using these consumer grade (micro)SD cards. You get what you pay for.
> Every major vendor's earbuds and most of their headsets aren't battery-replacable.
Oh that is weird cause this guide is marked as Easy and a major brand [1]
[1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Sony+WF-1000XM3+Battery+Replace...
Doubt it, there is no data to support this with regards to Fairphone 4 and 5. You'd think that if there was a negative data point on that, there'd be tons and tons of CS reports on it. On the contrary; Fairphone 4 has very little CS support requirement and returns. In contrast to other phones, as well as Fairphone 2 (which was, by Fairphone's own [paraphrased] words, a CS disaster).
Either way, the USB-C port on Fairphone 4 and 5 is easily replaced.
> SD Card upsells are so obviously upsells, come on. Yes using shoddy peripherals can lead to a bad experience and they're replaceable for a reason.
eMMC is more reliable. Practically everyone is using these consumer grade (micro)SD cards. You get what you pay for.
> Every major vendor's earbuds and most of their headsets aren't battery-replacable.
Oh that is weird cause this guide is marked as Easy and a major brand [1]
[1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Sony+WF-1000XM3+Battery+Replace...
You need the phone upside down in your pocket to plug it in and a new USB headset to boot. The Apple and Samsungs of the world in their ubiquity have changed the ecosystem.
It's not surprising that if you make using my old headset difficult, I and millions of others will move to buying a wireless alternative — they're counting on it. That's what happened and the sales numbers mirror that. People throw away way more audio equipment today than they ever have.
The fact that these Sony earbuds happen to be replaceable is quite a bit different than them being _designed_ as user-replicable. You found a community member that uploaded a video showing you how to do it, now show me the manufacturer's documentation explaining how it's done.
This exists for watches and cameras, but we have been lulled into throwing battery operated things away as a cultural migration pattern and Fairphone is aware and complicit in this indirectly and unnecessarily.
I get it, you either work for or just really dig Fairphone. Glad you found a company you like so much.
It's not surprising that if you make using my old headset difficult, I and millions of others will move to buying a wireless alternative — they're counting on it. That's what happened and the sales numbers mirror that. People throw away way more audio equipment today than they ever have.
The fact that these Sony earbuds happen to be replaceable is quite a bit different than them being _designed_ as user-replicable. You found a community member that uploaded a video showing you how to do it, now show me the manufacturer's documentation explaining how it's done.
This exists for watches and cameras, but we have been lulled into throwing battery operated things away as a cultural migration pattern and Fairphone is aware and complicit in this indirectly and unnecessarily.
I get it, you either work for or just really dig Fairphone. Glad you found a company you like so much.
> It's not surprising that if you make using my old headset difficult, I and millions of others will move to buying a wireless alternative — they're counting on it. That's what happened and the sales numbers mirror that. People throw away way more audio equipment today than they ever have.
Hehe, well there's converters which add Bluetooth to devices like keyboards. Surely you can get one to work on your 3.5 mm device so you're up to par? /runs
Honestly, I've been a 3.5 mm user for a lot of years in my life, and I actually love listening to my little WF-1000XM3. In fact, they're more safe to wear before I fall asleep. Because I won't be able to suffocate due to wires. Also, back in those days where I often used 3.5 mm cables I often had cable breakage at the choke points (point of entry and near the speakers). I used to burn through a couple of headsets a year as kid! I'm not missing that at all. But cool enough, Fairphone actually had a 3.5 mm headphones where you could detach the cable to replace it. And a third example: with ambient sound I can do stuff like dishes, open front door, or make up my bed without using a wire and without being attached to anything.
Do you know about VR by chance? Do people like being connected with VR, or do they prefer to be not connected? The latter ehhh..? Cause it is more convenient, that is why.
> The fact that these Sony earbuds happen to be replaceable is quite a bit different than them being _designed_ as user-replicable. You found a community member that uploaded a video showing you how to do it, now show me the manufacturer's documentation explaining how it's done.
I don't give a shit what Sony's take on it is. iFixit guide is enough for me.
> This exists for watches and cameras
Both of which are type of device which is now redundant.
> I get it, you either work for or just really dig Fairphone. Glad you found a company you like so much.
shrug and you're on the of them 3.5 mm loudmouths? :)
Hehe, well there's converters which add Bluetooth to devices like keyboards. Surely you can get one to work on your 3.5 mm device so you're up to par? /runs
Honestly, I've been a 3.5 mm user for a lot of years in my life, and I actually love listening to my little WF-1000XM3. In fact, they're more safe to wear before I fall asleep. Because I won't be able to suffocate due to wires. Also, back in those days where I often used 3.5 mm cables I often had cable breakage at the choke points (point of entry and near the speakers). I used to burn through a couple of headsets a year as kid! I'm not missing that at all. But cool enough, Fairphone actually had a 3.5 mm headphones where you could detach the cable to replace it. And a third example: with ambient sound I can do stuff like dishes, open front door, or make up my bed without using a wire and without being attached to anything.
Do you know about VR by chance? Do people like being connected with VR, or do they prefer to be not connected? The latter ehhh..? Cause it is more convenient, that is why.
> The fact that these Sony earbuds happen to be replaceable is quite a bit different than them being _designed_ as user-replicable. You found a community member that uploaded a video showing you how to do it, now show me the manufacturer's documentation explaining how it's done.
I don't give a shit what Sony's take on it is. iFixit guide is enough for me.
> This exists for watches and cameras
Both of which are type of device which is now redundant.
> I get it, you either work for or just really dig Fairphone. Glad you found a company you like so much.
shrug and you're on the of them 3.5 mm loudmouths? :)
Redundant? Smart watches exist and camera (phones) exist. They're both worse off today in the repair department _by design_, not coincidence or necessity. I still have both (non smart versions) I use specifically because of their repairability.
Planned obsolescence is baked into the marketing strategy. Fairphone realizes this but capitulated to sell peripherals, toeing Apple's talking points.
Companies taking a principled stance on repair is how repairs actually get done not the random customer finding an out-of-band way to increase the longevity of their hardware by trawling iFix it.
Planned obsolescence is baked into the marketing strategy. Fairphone realizes this but capitulated to sell peripherals, toeing Apple's talking points.
Companies taking a principled stance on repair is how repairs actually get done not the random customer finding an out-of-band way to increase the longevity of their hardware by trawling iFix it.
It is true though, lest we forget that Samsung managed to make the Galaxy S5 IP67 water resistant... this phone meanwhile is IP57 rated, which is actually even worse. If they tell you "it's harder with the headphone jack" that's not a good enough reason either, just try harder; it's not worth omitting when we know it is possible.
Samsung was able to pull this off with the S5 A DECADE AGO:
- removable back
- removable battery
- headphone jack
- SD card slot
- IP67 water resistant
This is an anti-environment moneygrab plain and simple. They omit the headphone jack so that they sell you the solution, which just so happens to be their brand of wireless headphones, dongle, whatever... if you actually like FairPhone you'd criticize them over this bullocks instead of being an uncritical parrot.
Samsung was able to pull this off with the S5 A DECADE AGO:
- removable back
- removable battery
- headphone jack
- SD card slot
- IP67 water resistant
This is an anti-environment moneygrab plain and simple. They omit the headphone jack so that they sell you the solution, which just so happens to be their brand of wireless headphones, dongle, whatever... if you actually like FairPhone you'd criticize them over this bullocks instead of being an uncritical parrot.
And to be fair, those phones quickly got to the point where the flap over the USB port would break or not seal. And the back would get loose, because Samsung ruined the OS so it needed frequent battery removed reboots. And the finger print sensor wouldn't work if your finger had been near water in the last 12 hours. So it had constant warnings about the above.
The S8 I had was the low point of Android ownership for me.
The S8 I had was the low point of Android ownership for me.
Fairphones are more bulky because they are modular, are easy to open, and don't use glue. If there is space for 3.5mm you might have a point.
I would prefer two USB-C over one USB-C plus one 3.5mm. It would be more useful to a lot of customers.
I would prefer two USB-C over one USB-C plus one 3.5mm. It would be more useful to a lot of customers.
> If there is space for 3.5mm you might have a point.
I don't think you get it. The reason why there isn't any space for 3.5mm now is because they didn't want to add it, they could add the space if they so choose. This is not a problem you should think about, it should be the designer/engineer/etc's concern to figure out how to fit it in.
It is normal for there to not be any space in portable electronics, that just means they've utilized all the space they had optimally; it doesn't mean they can't add more features and redesign it to accommodate the jack.
I don't think you get it. The reason why there isn't any space for 3.5mm now is because they didn't want to add it, they could add the space if they so choose. This is not a problem you should think about, it should be the designer/engineer/etc's concern to figure out how to fit it in.
It is normal for there to not be any space in portable electronics, that just means they've utilized all the space they had optimally; it doesn't mean they can't add more features and redesign it to accommodate the jack.
I think I get it perfectly fine. We just seem to disagree on the necessity and the viable alternative (two USB-C).
Very often you’ll get a better sound with Bluetooth because the DAC and electronics can be perfectly matched to the specific headphone acoustics.
I don't think there's anything "environmentally friendly" about making users have an extra dongle to get basic functionality.
I personally know absolutely no one with a dongle. I know many people who still use phones with jack that are not using it (or have earbuds). I was using wireless headphones before anyone heard of "earbuds" - they are much more convenient in situations where I'm using headphones. Of course, it's anecdotal but it seems that there are much more people like me/my friends than people missing Jack...
IMO the biggest utility of a headphone jack is not for earbuds, it's that it enables you to play music from your phone on basically any device made in the last 30 years. Want to hook up to some random stereo? No problem, you can do it. Want to play music in your car, but you have one of the many cars without Bluetooth? Easy. There's a lot to be said for having a damn near universal audio connector. Bluetooth is nice, but it's not there yet in terms of ubiquity.
My personal use case for the headphone jack is playing music in my car. My car doesn't even have an aux input (I have to use a cassette adapter), let alone Bluetooth. And when I'm on a long drive, being able to play music while charging is a must. I will only very rarely hook up a pair of wired earbuds to my phone, but I absolutely must have a headphone jack.
My personal use case for the headphone jack is playing music in my car. My car doesn't even have an aux input (I have to use a cassette adapter), let alone Bluetooth. And when I'm on a long drive, being able to play music while charging is a must. I will only very rarely hook up a pair of wired earbuds to my phone, but I absolutely must have a headphone jack.
I'm not claiming that there is no use for Jack. I just think that this is a niche and doesn't require a separate connector in every smartphone. Having a universal connector that can be used for various niche scenarios is IMO enough. We should push for improvements in that regard (e.g. make it easy to charge the phone and use the dongle at the same time).
I wish I had the same problem as you do with your car. Mine is old enough that it doesn't have Bluetooth (I'm not the first owner and Bluetooth was an "extra" in this model) but new enough that there is no cassette player (and no built-in aux input) :)
I wish I had the same problem as you do with your car. Mine is old enough that it doesn't have Bluetooth (I'm not the first owner and Bluetooth was an "extra" in this model) but new enough that there is no cassette player (and no built-in aux input) :)
Only if you think in absolutes. We shouldn't; we should view the issue in birdview, pragmatically with all pros and cons. The people for whom 3.5mm is a dealbreaker are loud, but seem rather minor if we look at the general market.
Imo not big deal, there are plenty of usb-c headphones, even from apple now
I prefer not throwing away my existing headphones, thank you very much.
welp, u can get zenfone then
this makes me so sad
"/e/OS by Murena"
Engineer tech founders, open source maintainers: please pass these names by a normal person before you decide on them. No normal person is going to understand that "/e/OS" is supposed to be a Unix file path, nor care. They're going to go "why does it have a '/' around the 'e' ?". If they pop it into their browser search bar, they will get an error, because the browser thinks it's a file path or something. When they go to Google.com and search for it, one of the first things that comes up is "what does e OS mean?" In fact, you can just take "OS" out of the name altogether, because normal people don't know what an Operating System is.
Engineer tech founders, open source maintainers: please pass these names by a normal person before you decide on them. No normal person is going to understand that "/e/OS" is supposed to be a Unix file path, nor care. They're going to go "why does it have a '/' around the 'e' ?". If they pop it into their browser search bar, they will get an error, because the browser thinks it's a file path or something. When they go to Google.com and search for it, one of the first things that comes up is "what does e OS mean?" In fact, you can just take "OS" out of the name altogether, because normal people don't know what an Operating System is.
I wholeheartedly agree.
It is also difficult to pronounce. I've come to call it slashyslash, but telling other people about it (which is absolutely paramount to it gaining popularity) is annoying. Me telling a friend about this would go:
I use slashyslash OS by Murena. It's forward slash, the letter e, forward slash, capital O capital S. Don't search for it from your address bar, but go to your search engine's homepage first.
The first thing people care about when it comes to the device they use to organise their every day lives with is convenience. If you can't even find it in the first place, what snowball's chance in hell does it have?
It is also difficult to pronounce. I've come to call it slashyslash, but telling other people about it (which is absolutely paramount to it gaining popularity) is annoying. Me telling a friend about this would go:
I use slashyslash OS by Murena. It's forward slash, the letter e, forward slash, capital O capital S. Don't search for it from your address bar, but go to your search engine's homepage first.
The first thing people care about when it comes to the device they use to organise their every day lives with is convenience. If you can't even find it in the first place, what snowball's chance in hell does it have?
Yes, that annoys me too. The original name actually was "Eelo". Unfortunately, it had to be renamed due to a legal conflict. Creator Gael Duval also said in 2020 that the "/e/" name would only be temporary.
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A bit of false advertising since it does not support 5G standalone, only the "fake" 5G NSA which is actually 4G.
Also, LCD screen, really underwhelming.
I was expecting much more for that price.
Also, LCD screen, really underwhelming.
I was expecting much more for that price.
The whole point of the fairphone is, as the name implies, that it is fair. That means that all the components/elements are sourced from (where possible) sustainable sources and all labour is paid for fairly (no 'sweatshops'). If you would rather have a flashy screen at the lowest price possible with no regard to the actual cost (human, environmental, etc.) then you can buy litterally any other phone on the market but it is great that the fairphone exists for the people that these kind of issues do concern.
The successor, Fairphone 5, has OLED. The Fairphone 4 is about 2 years old now, and AFAIK it has real 5G.
So you want premium features in a niche phone like the fairphone?
5G and OLED are not premium any more, they are quite basic.
e.g. Xiaomi Redmi Note 13 has an OLED screen and supports 5G SA for 140 EUR
e.g. Xiaomi Redmi Note 13 has an OLED screen and supports 5G SA for 140 EUR
Xiaomi is the essence of Chinaware: Xiaomi are hard to open/repair (environmental unfriendly), workers don't get a fair wage, materials are not fairly resourced, it has a locked bootloader, they have their own bloatware (MIUI), probably contain spyware, and likely don't even pay fair taxes.
Also, the successor of Fairphone 4, Fairphone 5, has 5G and OLED.
Also, the successor of Fairphone 4, Fairphone 5, has 5G and OLED.
Is Xiaomi Redmi Note 13 an environmental friendly phone built by well paid human beings?
It's not a premium phone, showing that OLED and 5G are not premium features.
Why are you talking about a "premium phone"? You are the only one here using that expression
The first comment literally talks about premium features....
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The experience has been mostly good, with a few irritating issues. I still consider it good though, because I had a flagship Pixel previously and had my share of irritating issues also. I don't really miss Google at all.
* Occasionally the keyboard just disappears. Crashes or something. Killing the AOSP (Android keyboard) service restores it. Hopefully this gets fixed. * The App Store it comes with only shows open source products, or lets you add in Play Store apps without an account. * Searching in the app store sometimes stops showing results when I search and I have to clear its data to get them to show again. I think it's related to the Play Store interface. * Moving off Google Maps is a bit of a learning curve (although you could install it probably). OsmAnd~ or Organic Maps are good enough 85% of the time. * I find if I hold the phone in my right hand when talking that my ear is not naturally on the speaker and I can't hear people. I've never had an issue like this with a phone. Easy to move, but the beginning of most conversations are still a lot of "are you there's?"
AT&T network works great. Verizon doesn't. You might try it like a fool like me and think it does for awhile, but I promise you it doesn't. The phone doesn't support 1 or 2 of the bands Verizon uses, so sometimes you simply won't be able to receive or make calls or texts. Mint Mobile (T-Mobile) gave me some trouble too but I think those ones could have been resolved but I didn't get network coverage at my house despite the maps, so I gave up. Boost Mobile claims you can use the AT&T or T-Mobile network, but they don't give you a choice, seem to have stopped pushing AT&T, and will refuse to give you the other SIM when you ask for it. RedPocket actually gives you a choice when you sign up.