Ask HN: Seeking Advice – Relocating to Canada as a Software Engineer
26 comments
As a Canadian, if you're going to the trouble to move, aim for the USA first. The salaries are just so much higher. Canada is a solid backup plan if you can't get into the USA after trying.
I left Canada shortly after graduating to move to California and got a 2x raise at a herpy derpy startup.
I left Canada shortly after graduating to move to California and got a 2x raise at a herpy derpy startup.
As a fellow Canadian, work for a US company remotely while living in Canada. Get the US salary w/o the crazy rent in SF/NY.
Even better, setup a business corp and work as a contractor - much easier for them to hire you. Also, get all the corporate tax benefits (tax rate, expense all gear, internet, home office etc).
Even better, setup a business corp and work as a contractor - much easier for them to hire you. Also, get all the corporate tax benefits (tax rate, expense all gear, internet, home office etc).
Thanks. Which companies accept such contracting arrangement? What I see on LinkedIn is: they only hire individual contractors.
Most US companies hiring Canadians prefer contractors. You are an individual contractor, even if you have a corporation.
Interesting. Thanks.
Thanks for the insight, but I have to ask: how does one get into the USA? It's far easier to enter Canada through the Express Entry program. On the other hand, to enter the USA, you'd need a work visa, a spouse, or be extremely lucky and win the green card lottery.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
If I'm right, my next question is: What would you recommend for securing a position with an American company while being overseas? I live in Denmark, Europe, and would need to find that job online, which adds to the challenge.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
If I'm right, my next question is: What would you recommend for securing a position with an American company while being overseas? I live in Denmark, Europe, and would need to find that job online, which adds to the challenge.
It's not that much more of a challenge to find a job online before you move to that country. That's how I moved to the USA originally and then moved to Taiwan.
If you're a software engineer, apply for a FAANG or a Unicorn startup. Ideally, a FAANG company. Their HR department will handle this all for you. The big companies all have immigration lawyers on staff who do everything for you. The challenging part is grinding leetcode to pass the interview, that's it.
Going from Denmark to the USA by getting a job offer at Microsoft or Google takes work, but it's very straightforward. Just like how getting a six-pack takes work but is straightforward (need to go to the gym every day and eat broccoli). You grind leetcode, line up 8-10 interviews, fail 7, and pass 3.
Now, if you don't WANT to move to the USA and WANT to move to Canada because of family/life reasons, that's fine too! I ended up choosing to move to Taiwan, I'm sacrificing some career opportunities but I don't really care at this point in my life shrug.
If you're a software engineer, apply for a FAANG or a Unicorn startup. Ideally, a FAANG company. Their HR department will handle this all for you. The big companies all have immigration lawyers on staff who do everything for you. The challenging part is grinding leetcode to pass the interview, that's it.
Going from Denmark to the USA by getting a job offer at Microsoft or Google takes work, but it's very straightforward. Just like how getting a six-pack takes work but is straightforward (need to go to the gym every day and eat broccoli). You grind leetcode, line up 8-10 interviews, fail 7, and pass 3.
Now, if you don't WANT to move to the USA and WANT to move to Canada because of family/life reasons, that's fine too! I ended up choosing to move to Taiwan, I'm sacrificing some career opportunities but I don't really care at this point in my life shrug.
Hey, recently my wife and I decided to make a similar change, we moved from Brazil to Canada, for her to pursue her studies, and for me to make a professional change, in Brazil I was a Machine Learning Engineer.
1. The demand for software-related jobs is quite high, but the breakthrough in some companies (especially big ones) is quite challenging, in part because of the recent waves of layoffs, but a lot of the hiring market here is based on connections. For me, it was especially hard to get a job offer before arriving in the country.
2. It depends on where you want to live, but most of the jobs are in large metropolitan areas like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, and a lot of them have been requiring at least hybrid work, so you need to factor in the cost of living in this cities. Afaik, the average Canadian household spends half of their income on living expenses (shelter, heating, power). Also, telecommunication services here are quite expensive, so if you plan to have good internet to work from home, you might need to add a couple hundred dollars to your monthly expenses for that.
3. About immigration, the best way is for you to reach an Immigration Attorney or Consultant, each case is particular and there is no one-size-fits-all for this. I've met people from the most diverse backgrounds, with completely different immigration strategies, and it worked out for them. Find what works best for your scenario and customize your immigration strategy based on that.
4. I'm still planning to visit Vancouver, but having known Toronto and Montreal, I feel that Toronto is a really good city to start, there are plenty of opportunities, and many Canadian companies choose to have their offices.
I would agree with another commenter who said that building a solid portfolio might go a long way in getting job interviews.
Good luck on your path!
1. The demand for software-related jobs is quite high, but the breakthrough in some companies (especially big ones) is quite challenging, in part because of the recent waves of layoffs, but a lot of the hiring market here is based on connections. For me, it was especially hard to get a job offer before arriving in the country.
2. It depends on where you want to live, but most of the jobs are in large metropolitan areas like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, and a lot of them have been requiring at least hybrid work, so you need to factor in the cost of living in this cities. Afaik, the average Canadian household spends half of their income on living expenses (shelter, heating, power). Also, telecommunication services here are quite expensive, so if you plan to have good internet to work from home, you might need to add a couple hundred dollars to your monthly expenses for that.
3. About immigration, the best way is for you to reach an Immigration Attorney or Consultant, each case is particular and there is no one-size-fits-all for this. I've met people from the most diverse backgrounds, with completely different immigration strategies, and it worked out for them. Find what works best for your scenario and customize your immigration strategy based on that.
4. I'm still planning to visit Vancouver, but having known Toronto and Montreal, I feel that Toronto is a really good city to start, there are plenty of opportunities, and many Canadian companies choose to have their offices.
I would agree with another commenter who said that building a solid portfolio might go a long way in getting job interviews.
Good luck on your path!
Toronto is really a massive hub for tech, with most of the largest companies HQ in the country. Waterloo/Kitchener is for more startup based companies and lots of great work in security coming out of Vancouver. Rent in Toronto is expensive but that is the majority of Canada at the moment. Dev salaries I would add are probably between 60k-150k from Junior-Intermediate salaries.
A friend graduated from a world top university and had strong 20-30 years career in software, getting to senior architect level in several companies, with tenures of about 5 years in a company. Moved to Toronto last December and still can't find a position in software industry, which makes me wonder what's that special sauce successful applicants add to their searches.
Canada is good if you are young and want to work for pennies. You can double or triple your salary going to America. I get offers for 250-300k in America but 80-120k in Canada.
If you are senior here they can't pay you so they won't hire you. Also Canada is a shit show not worth moving here. Our media is good at tricking people. There is no health care in Canada or education don't believe the noise.
If you are coming here, be prepared to live in a shared room and cleaning dishes or working at Amazon as a courier. Remember the last 20 years before Uber the fastest way to get a doctor in Canada was to sit in a taxi as the driver probably was a doctor in their country. Your experience when you come to Canada is pretty much useless if it's not Canadian or you don't have a network.
If you are senior here they can't pay you so they won't hire you. Also Canada is a shit show not worth moving here. Our media is good at tricking people. There is no health care in Canada or education don't believe the noise.
If you are coming here, be prepared to live in a shared room and cleaning dishes or working at Amazon as a courier. Remember the last 20 years before Uber the fastest way to get a doctor in Canada was to sit in a taxi as the driver probably was a doctor in their country. Your experience when you come to Canada is pretty much useless if it's not Canadian or you don't have a network.
Do not recommend it.
Canada’s software salaries are low and this is a bad period for a move like that.
Moving countries is an arduous process and at the end you need to wisely consider all the aspects.
Likely what you read online paints Canada in a naively positive light.
Canada’s software salaries are low and this is a bad period for a move like that.
Moving countries is an arduous process and at the end you need to wisely consider all the aspects.
Likely what you read online paints Canada in a naively positive light.
Canadian software engineer here. About a year ago I moved away from Canada specifically because cost of living was too high compared to Canadian market-rate salaries in the software industry. Many of my Canadian peers have done the same.
Canada is a wonderful place with some of the best nature and some really lovely cities, but I would not move there to improve my financial situation.
Canada is a wonderful place with some of the best nature and some really lovely cities, but I would not move there to improve my financial situation.
I've helped a few friends immigrate to Canada. They were also engineers and the BC PNP program was the fastest method we found: https://www.welcomebc.ca/Immigrate-to-B-C/About-The-BC-PNP
It may be a long shot, but do you know anything like this for the USA?
I live in Victoria which is one of the tech hubs in Canada, although definitely one of the smaller ones. The cost to living vs salary is not in a great spot right now but it's definitely doable.
If you are single or don't have any kids I think it is a lot more reasonable -- it's quite difficult to find housing for larger families. Even so, if you are capable of getting a good job working remote for a company it is possible to make it work.
I will say that Canada is in a bit of a flux right now. We are having an affordability crisis, and the cost of everything is going up.
It's not impossible to make a good life in Canada, but I think it's becoming increasing difficult and definitely not something that should be taken for granted.
If you are single or don't have any kids I think it is a lot more reasonable -- it's quite difficult to find housing for larger families. Even so, if you are capable of getting a good job working remote for a company it is possible to make it work.
I will say that Canada is in a bit of a flux right now. We are having an affordability crisis, and the cost of everything is going up.
It's not impossible to make a good life in Canada, but I think it's becoming increasing difficult and definitely not something that should be taken for granted.
I moved away from Victoria to the US 5 years ago and don't regret it at all. Even as someone with only about 10 years of experience I felt like I was nearing the ceiling of earning ability in Victoria. Paired with the ridiculous cost of living for a small city it didn't make sense to continue living in Victoria.
The "tech hub" is kind of laughable with most of it being small startups and only a handful of established companies that may offer more career growth.
I wouldn't recommend Victoria.
The "tech hub" is kind of laughable with most of it being small startups and only a handful of established companies that may offer more career growth.
I wouldn't recommend Victoria.
Victoria is one of those scenes that is very bimodal. You have almost two entirely different communities that don't often interact. If you can make the jump out of the larger group of companies that are playing at lower stakes you can do pretty well.
That being said, the opportunities are limited, and I'm not surprised that you found more success elsewhere.
That being said, the opportunities are limited, and I'm not surprised that you found more success elsewhere.
You make a great point about finding remote work. I lived in the Victoria area before I left Canada and found that a lot of my peers worked remotely for US-based companies. During the pandemic, some were even able to get a US market rate salary instead of being paid based on the Victoria location. This made living in Victoria much more manageable.
Unless you want to own real estate near urban centres, a software engineer salary in Canada puts you squarely in the middle class. You didn't mention where you currently live, but I assume most people don't like very cold winters. If so, only consider tech hubs on the West Coast (i.e. Vancouver or Victoria).
Canadian here, not a software dev but in the industry and I hope I can answer some of your questions.
1. The demand is high for devs, but like many places the tech industry itself is seeing a lot of cutbacks. So your best bet is likely not the tech industry per se, but healthcare or natural resources, etc. Expect to be paid less because of the double whammy of industry that pays less and you're foreign. It'll still be a good salary, but not nearly what you'd get in the US for the same job. And taxes are generally higher (you'd likely fall in the 35-40% range).
2. Really depends on the city. Rents and housing prices have exploded nation-wide recently. To give an idea, an vs apartment that would have gone for $900 CAD a month 3 years ago in Montreal (where I am) could easily be $2500-3000 Prices are slightly correcting in some cities but don't look like they're getting back to pre-pandemic levels any time soon. Also, like the rest of the world inflation is high. My weekly grocery bill for a family of three went from $65-80 to $95-120. And the prices in quoting (rent, groceries) are for Montreal which is significantly cheaper than Toronto, Vancouver, and Ottawa.
3. Immigration itself I'm not sure. If you listen to points and politicians it's easy (for good or bad, depending on the audience) but I can't say what the reality is. I think as a dev you shouldn't have a problem getting people interested, but looking at my point 1 I'm not sure how many non-tech companies would be willing to sponsor a visa. Federal government generally controls immigration but check provincial resources - some are friendlier than others. And expect to be low-balled, especially since you mentioned being from a developing nation.
4. Toronto is the obvious city and where most end up. Vancouver is great too but has been overpriced and very expensive since the 1990s. Montreal was starting to get rolling again, but every 30 years or so the Quebec Nationalists wake up and ruin things for the city. They've flared things up again so I wouldn't recommend coming here (as an aside, I'm pretty sure we're headed for another referendum after the next election cycle and this time they might get what they want... Even though for all practical purposes they already have everything they want. It's like Brexit all over again). Ottawa might come up but it's all government jobs and Spotify... And Spotify has been laying people off. Another decent area to look at is Waterloo, not far from Toronto and a good tech hub because of the universities.
One thing that can really help you in your search is of you every did projects for any big Canadian tech or FAANGs highlight it.
Good luck and if I think of anything else I'll come back and add.
1. The demand is high for devs, but like many places the tech industry itself is seeing a lot of cutbacks. So your best bet is likely not the tech industry per se, but healthcare or natural resources, etc. Expect to be paid less because of the double whammy of industry that pays less and you're foreign. It'll still be a good salary, but not nearly what you'd get in the US for the same job. And taxes are generally higher (you'd likely fall in the 35-40% range).
2. Really depends on the city. Rents and housing prices have exploded nation-wide recently. To give an idea, an vs apartment that would have gone for $900 CAD a month 3 years ago in Montreal (where I am) could easily be $2500-3000 Prices are slightly correcting in some cities but don't look like they're getting back to pre-pandemic levels any time soon. Also, like the rest of the world inflation is high. My weekly grocery bill for a family of three went from $65-80 to $95-120. And the prices in quoting (rent, groceries) are for Montreal which is significantly cheaper than Toronto, Vancouver, and Ottawa.
3. Immigration itself I'm not sure. If you listen to points and politicians it's easy (for good or bad, depending on the audience) but I can't say what the reality is. I think as a dev you shouldn't have a problem getting people interested, but looking at my point 1 I'm not sure how many non-tech companies would be willing to sponsor a visa. Federal government generally controls immigration but check provincial resources - some are friendlier than others. And expect to be low-balled, especially since you mentioned being from a developing nation.
4. Toronto is the obvious city and where most end up. Vancouver is great too but has been overpriced and very expensive since the 1990s. Montreal was starting to get rolling again, but every 30 years or so the Quebec Nationalists wake up and ruin things for the city. They've flared things up again so I wouldn't recommend coming here (as an aside, I'm pretty sure we're headed for another referendum after the next election cycle and this time they might get what they want... Even though for all practical purposes they already have everything they want. It's like Brexit all over again). Ottawa might come up but it's all government jobs and Spotify... And Spotify has been laying people off. Another decent area to look at is Waterloo, not far from Toronto and a good tech hub because of the universities.
One thing that can really help you in your search is of you every did projects for any big Canadian tech or FAANGs highlight it.
Good luck and if I think of anything else I'll come back and add.
Why not go to a place with some sun and beaches and cheap rent and no carbon tax and work remote.
Which means to continue in their home country or a neighboring one (which is a great advice that I follow)
can you give some examples of those places/countries?
I am a 24-year-old software developer with two years of professional experience and a graduate of a university ranked in the top 500 worldwide, with a solid GPA of 3.2. Despite a deep passion for coding and computer science, the economic constraints of my home country, a developing nation, make it challenging to live comfortably. Earning $1500 USD monthly with rents ranging from $600-$700, I'm unable to sustain a reasonable standard of living.
I'm seriously considering relocating to Canada for better career opportunities and quality of life. I would love to hear from those who've made a similar move or are familiar with the tech industry and lifestyle in Canada.
Here are my specific questions:
1. What's the demand for software developers with my background in Canada?
2. Could anyone share insights on the cost of living versus the salary expectations for software developers in Canada?
3. What challenges should I be prepared for in terms of immigration and job searching as an international candidate?
4. Any advice on Canadian cities that are tech hubs with a good balance of job opportunities and quality of life?
5. If you are not from Canada but have insights into improving life and career conditions in the engineering field elsewhere, I'm open to suggestions.
I'm going through a rough patch and am eager to make a change. I appreciate any guidance or experiences you can share.
Thank you!