Microsoft ending support for Windows 10 could send 240M PCs to landfills(reuters.com)
reuters.com
Microsoft ending support for Windows 10 could send 240M PCs to landfills
https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-ending-support-windows-10-could-send-240-mln-pcs-landfills-report-2023-12-21/
53 comments
Alternatively people could just install some beginner-friendly Linux distro, and enjoy a much better desktop experience without ads and bloat.
I'll probably get downvoted for this, if not push-back, but. Linux is great for customization, and freedom of expression, but it's also not so great if you don't like troubleshooting every time you want to use some new software or when something updates and breaks your system.
Obviously not all Distros are the same and some are more reliable than others, but my experience with Linux is just many hours of troubleshooting why XYZ doesn't work out of the box, granted this has gotten better over the years, but I dunno if a non-tech-savvy user would be able to fix these problems (if they occur) without calling me every month.
Obviously not all Distros are the same and some are more reliable than others, but my experience with Linux is just many hours of troubleshooting why XYZ doesn't work out of the box, granted this has gotten better over the years, but I dunno if a non-tech-savvy user would be able to fix these problems (if they occur) without calling me every month.
Even if your an experienced software engineer, Linux makes somethings impossible.
Want to play some Call of Duty or The Finals, nope anti cheat only works on Windows.
I'd probably tell most people to just buy a Mac if they don't want to play games. I like Linux personally, but I don't find myself using it as a desktop OS unless I want to tinker with something.
I do find Linux great for programming through, no temptation to jump into a game.
Want to play some Call of Duty or The Finals, nope anti cheat only works on Windows.
I'd probably tell most people to just buy a Mac if they don't want to play games. I like Linux personally, but I don't find myself using it as a desktop OS unless I want to tinker with something.
I do find Linux great for programming through, no temptation to jump into a game.
What I'm seeing is the most popular Linux distro, ChromeOS/ChromeOS Flex, absolutely demolishing Windows marketshare.
It also has even worse support than Windows.
I think most modern users don't care about their operating system anymore because the browser is the operating system 90% of the time. Which I suppose why it's a shame Windows 10 is seeing end of support because it's really, for 90% of users, just as good as Windows 11.
It also has even worse support than Windows.
I think most modern users don't care about their operating system anymore because the browser is the operating system 90% of the time. Which I suppose why it's a shame Windows 10 is seeing end of support because it's really, for 90% of users, just as good as Windows 11.
Windows UI has gotten considerably worse for casual users who just want a web browser. There are so many ads and pop ups in the OS now.
I installed Ubuntu on my grandma's machine after she installed malware on her windows machine. I get less questions because it doesn't update with "features" constantly.
I installed Ubuntu on my grandma's machine after she installed malware on her windows machine. I get less questions because it doesn't update with "features" constantly.
You’re conflating UI and UX. People don’t care. There are ads on the internet, why aren’t there ads in the os?
99% of people can’t tell what an ad is. Is a trial software an ad? Is a shortcut on the start menu an ad?
People want a bmw, they don’t care that heated seats are now a subscription service. People use YouTube, they see ads as part of the entertainment.
For majority of people, they don’t know there’s better so they don’t care.
99% of people can’t tell what an ad is. Is a trial software an ad? Is a shortcut on the start menu an ad?
People want a bmw, they don’t care that heated seats are now a subscription service. People use YouTube, they see ads as part of the entertainment.
For majority of people, they don’t know there’s better so they don’t care.
What are you talking about people do notice and care?! e.g. https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863258/bmw-cancel-heated...
>when something updates and breaks your system
I don't think an update on a Ubuntu LTS release in like 15 years has ever broken the system. Don't install arch on your grandmothers laptop.
As for apps, yes there's an uncanney valley to it where mid-level users, like say gamers, will run into more problems on linux, but most people these days live in Chrome. My 60 year old parents happily browse away on linux. It's functionally a chromebook for them. Exactly the use case OP was talking about. Old laptops that they'd have thrown away are snappy again.
I don't think an update on a Ubuntu LTS release in like 15 years has ever broken the system. Don't install arch on your grandmothers laptop.
As for apps, yes there's an uncanney valley to it where mid-level users, like say gamers, will run into more problems on linux, but most people these days live in Chrome. My 60 year old parents happily browse away on linux. It's functionally a chromebook for them. Exactly the use case OP was talking about. Old laptops that they'd have thrown away are snappy again.
Even the Linux games situation is changing a lot. If I can run 90% of games jut fine on Linux, I'm going to be inclined to use Linux and 90% of games on the market, rather than Windows and 100%.
I see new awesome software being released on Linux first every year. Every cool Windows software project I can even name started maybe 10 or 30 years ago. The amount of development dollars going to Android gaming has long since surpassed the dollars going to Windows gaming, and the revenue is already in Android's favour, but there are still more quality games on Windows. That will flip one day and when it does things like Proton will make more and more sense.
For me, Linux feels like the future as flawed as it is, while Windows feels like the past. The only way Microsoft could possibly save Windows at this point would be to open source it and rescind their monopoly to it and adopt the Red Hat business model, and that might not be enough, and I don't see it happening.
I see new awesome software being released on Linux first every year. Every cool Windows software project I can even name started maybe 10 or 30 years ago. The amount of development dollars going to Android gaming has long since surpassed the dollars going to Windows gaming, and the revenue is already in Android's favour, but there are still more quality games on Windows. That will flip one day and when it does things like Proton will make more and more sense.
For me, Linux feels like the future as flawed as it is, while Windows feels like the past. The only way Microsoft could possibly save Windows at this point would be to open source it and rescind their monopoly to it and adopt the Red Hat business model, and that might not be enough, and I don't see it happening.
I feel like Proton is a weird backwards step for Linux, but in the end it will be a major part of people finishing up with Windows.
Personally, I have more issues with Windows than I do with Linux. Granted, I know how to troubleshoot either OS, but the implication Windows doesn't have issues is... confusing to me.
I am curious when your last experience with Linux was, and with what distro(s)? As you say, the general Linux experience has gotten better over the years, to the point where I think a non-tech-savvy user would have the same issues on Ubuntu as they do on Windows - which is to say issues they'd have on any OS, because they're not savvy :P
> I'll probably get downvoted for this, if not push-back
Nothing wrong with "push-back"; I'd hope you'd be happy to hear opposing views
I am curious when your last experience with Linux was, and with what distro(s)? As you say, the general Linux experience has gotten better over the years, to the point where I think a non-tech-savvy user would have the same issues on Ubuntu as they do on Windows - which is to say issues they'd have on any OS, because they're not savvy :P
> I'll probably get downvoted for this, if not push-back
Nothing wrong with "push-back"; I'd hope you'd be happy to hear opposing views
This very week I had major issues with both: on my roommate's W11 laptop all her pictures were deleted after I removed them from her OneDrive because she had gotten a warning that her OD was nearly full (so stupid, why try to sync files from a 1TB SSD to a 5GB OD? It's batshit).
The next day I installed OpenSUSE on my PC and couldn't connect to the internet. Eventually I found out that the problem is that the rndis module is blacklisted and AOSP can't use CDC ethernet*, and I can only connect to my internet by using USB tethering with my smartphone.
* <https://jordemort.dev/blog/why-android-cant-use-cdc-ethernet...>
The next day I installed OpenSUSE on my PC and couldn't connect to the internet. Eventually I found out that the problem is that the rndis module is blacklisted and AOSP can't use CDC ethernet*, and I can only connect to my internet by using USB tethering with my smartphone.
* <https://jordemort.dev/blog/why-android-cant-use-cdc-ethernet...>
A very feasible option for the casual user as most software has moved to the web. Few years ago a casual user would have major concerns about office suites but now with office365 and the whole google docs/slides/sheets offerings a browser is all you need.
No people are going to use Windows 10 on those computers and will be happy that they don't need to restart for updates anymore. Emphasis is the B from BFU.
Yeah as if. You know bit going to happen. They could just as easily install windows 11 because the limitations are easily bypassed and purely commercially motivated.
Everyone here is ignoring that Windows 10 was released in 2015 and security update support will end in 2028 — that’s thirteen years of support!
Sure, sure, hardware can last longer than that, but would be hilariously outdated by that point.
For industrial and special-purpose usage such as kiosks or embedded controllers there is the Long-Term Servicing Channel, which will have extended security updates until 2029: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
For comparison, there aren’t any other mainstream operating systems with even vaguely comparable support longevity.
Everyone here advising people to install Ubuntu should look at its support lifecycle table: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
The version released in 2015 is already in extended support and will reach EoL in April 2024, just months from now.
I doubt it’ll be a smooth experience installing a 2028 or 2029 version of Ubuntu on a PC made in 2015 or even earlier!
Sure, sure, hardware can last longer than that, but would be hilariously outdated by that point.
For industrial and special-purpose usage such as kiosks or embedded controllers there is the Long-Term Servicing Channel, which will have extended security updates until 2029: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
For comparison, there aren’t any other mainstream operating systems with even vaguely comparable support longevity.
Everyone here advising people to install Ubuntu should look at its support lifecycle table: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
The version released in 2015 is already in extended support and will reach EoL in April 2024, just months from now.
I doubt it’ll be a smooth experience installing a 2028 or 2029 version of Ubuntu on a PC made in 2015 or even earlier!
>Everyone here is ignoring that Windows 10 was released in 2015 and security update support will end in 2028 — that’s thirteen years of support!
>Sure, sure, hardware can last longer than that, but would be hilariously outdated by that point.
The $500 gaming PC I built in 2015 still runs mainstream games and has zero problem with running Office suite or any task a normal person would require.
>Sure, sure, hardware can last longer than that, but would be hilariously outdated by that point.
The $500 gaming PC I built in 2015 still runs mainstream games and has zero problem with running Office suite or any task a normal person would require.
I think the bigger issue isn't so much that they are dropping support for 10 but that 11 has seemingly unnecessary requirements that block it from working on modern systems.
You can easily bypass it: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-re...
I'm already living in this world due to my motherboard[0] maxing out at Windows 10 ver 19H2 for reasons I don't understand. It's honestly really refreshing to just be able to use my computer without it rebooting out from under me all the time and leaving "presents" for me afterward, like how Edge got re-pinned to my taskbar any time any update required a reboot. I'm sick of the update treadmill and especially sick of all the scare-mongering about not being on the update treadmill. I even have some XP machines and they've all been fine too. Come hax0r my Gibson and prove me wrong.
[0] https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/X10SAE “Note: Win 10 OS can't support beyond 19H2 version”
[0] https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/X10SAE “Note: Win 10 OS can't support beyond 19H2 version”
I have all my important documents in a folder called "Documentation". OneDrive decided to sync these to OneDrive. I took my laptop out, no wifi. Oh look, all the documents are fucking gone! No problem, I'll uninstall OneDrive. Oh great. They're permanently gone. Fucking terrible product. Don't produce products that are worse than not having the product in the first place!
Are the people running machines after EOL aware of the official EOL date, or even necessarily that there is one? Ridiculous idea, that people will just march out to the dumps with their still functioning computers.
No, obviously people aren't gonna throw away their PCs after next year just because Win 10 won't get any more updates, the same way how they don't immediately throw away their Macs and Androids that stopped getting SW updates. People are just throwing hissy fits over nothing burgers.
I wish editorialized click-bait garbage articles like this would stop ending up on HN frontpage. If I had a cookie for every FUD Windows 10 EOL article on HN frontpage I'd be diabetic already.
I wish editorialized click-bait garbage articles like this would stop ending up on HN frontpage. If I had a cookie for every FUD Windows 10 EOL article on HN frontpage I'd be diabetic already.
well, normally, one could upgrade windows but w they're artificially gatekeeping hardware upgrades so, it's not exactly hyperbole. also, business doesn't Play around.
How about we round up the MS board of directors and give them each one lash for every computer available sold the last 5 years which supports W10 but doesn't support W11? We could also gather their immediate families and lop off their hands and feet, but that'd be a bit cruel.
Tie them to four stakes hammered into the ground and start stacking such computers on top of them until they understand that a TPM isn't required to run an operating system?
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It will be the year of the Linux desktop!
I lost track of how many times the article uses the words “could” or “potentially”.
Absolutely disgusting that Microsoft and all these silicon valley companies preach that they're green, eco-friendly, safe for the world, etc. - but when push comes to shove if they want to push changes that make millions of computers obsolete to make a quick buck, they will.
You don't need a TPM to run an operating system. You need a TPM to enable Microsoft to lock down your operating system more and more into their walled garden ecosystem under the guise and excuse of "security".
All this e-waste because Microsoft says so... Didn't they get their feet held to the fire for anti-trust reasons? Maybe it needs to happen again along with all the other silicon valley companies.
You don't need a TPM to run an operating system. You need a TPM to enable Microsoft to lock down your operating system more and more into their walled garden ecosystem under the guise and excuse of "security".
All this e-waste because Microsoft says so... Didn't they get their feet held to the fire for anti-trust reasons? Maybe it needs to happen again along with all the other silicon valley companies.
240 million new potential sales of Windows licenses...
This is stupidity. Windows 11 can be easily installed on computers without TPM 2.0, Secure Boot or <8th generation Intel CPU: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-re...
Define "easily"? Non-tech-savvy users will never even touch an install USB or know what regedit is. They'll just see the dialog saying "your computer doesn't support Windows 11", chuck it in the bin, and buy a new one.
Then they should ask their tech-savvy friends how to do it using a simple tutorial. Tech illiteracy shouldn't be an excuse for stupidity by throwing away good hardware.
Install Linux, these PCs will be better with that. More secure with less malware, more stable.
I suggest distros such as Ubuntu, Fedora and Debian.
Enable automatic security updates.
Also Linux distros such as Alma Linux, Rocky Linux, Red Hat enterprise Linux / Suse is an option. That will offer longer support upgrade cycles.
I suggest distros such as Ubuntu, Fedora and Debian.
Enable automatic security updates.
Also Linux distros such as Alma Linux, Rocky Linux, Red Hat enterprise Linux / Suse is an option. That will offer longer support upgrade cycles.
> Microsoft aims to discontinue support for Windows 10 by October 2025. The next generation of the OS, anticipated to bring advanced artificial intelligence technology to PCs, could potentially boost the sluggish PC market.
Planned obsolesce so they can push ai, a cancer of the software world.
Planned obsolesce so they can push ai, a cancer of the software world.
It's not even on device AI, so that's really no excuse.
I think nano LLMs are the next trendy thing, but I agree with your sentiment.
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Windows releases should have some regulatory review to determine if it is actually a valuable upgrade, that results in productivity gains, etc. It seems Windows it just forcing upgrades through monopolization of their desktop product at this point.
Forcing upgrades through monopolization of PC market is exactly what Microsoft has been doing since forever.
Send them to developing nations with windows XP and office XP?!
As long as people learn the basics with them, VBA scripting in Excel, Basic HTML and Javscript Design and the most important Spider Solitaire.
As long as people learn the basics with them, VBA scripting in Excel, Basic HTML and Javscript Design and the most important Spider Solitaire.
Can I have some of these PCs? I have no problem running Ubuntu on them, just send me.
Indeed. A landfill is the worst possible solution for this.
What's really going to happen is absolutely nothing. People won't throw away anything because people won't even know or care that Windows isn't being updated anymore.
The landfill isn't the solution because there isn't a problem.
I don't know if I totally agree with this. Maybe it's not nearly as bad as how the article frames it but just doing a Google image search of "landfills of old PCs" returns some pretty convincing images.
Hardware does become obsolete at some point and people will get rid of them but the EOL of an operating system is not the reason for it. As long as people can boot up and do whatever they want to do with acceptable speed then most won't upgrade.
Unless a big pop-up warns and nags users about it, I don't see Windows 10 PCs getting thrown out anytime soon.