Amazon plans to charge for Alexa in June–unless internal conflict delays revamp(arstechnica.com)
arstechnica.com
Amazon plans to charge for Alexa in June–unless internal conflict delays revamp
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/alexa-is-in-trouble-paid-for-alexa-gives-inaccurate-answers-in-early-demos/
64 comments
Why are Siri and Alexa so bad at understanding instructions? I have to be precise and clear if I want anything done.
Meanwhile with VoiceGPT, I can fill my instructions with awkward pauses, unclear language, and it still gets what I’m trying to say.
Meanwhile with VoiceGPT, I can fill my instructions with awkward pauses, unclear language, and it still gets what I’m trying to say.
Makes sense to me. We already have a term for mishearing something: eggcorn.
Now multiply by many languages, dialects, accents. Unless they had regional interpreters down to the accent level, why would it understand anything? Humans don’t understand each other with different accents even if the language is the same.
Now multiply by many languages, dialects, accents. Unless they had regional interpreters down to the accent level, why would it understand anything? Humans don’t understand each other with different accents even if the language is the same.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
Doesn't matter how many languages or accents there are. The problem is that there was an established, large subset of those that it once understood and could comprehend, and now, that allegedly same technology - with several years of opportunities to mature and improve - is now struggling to understand those same people that it once could.
That as nothing to do with accents.
Now, while I acknowledge and agree that Siri, Alexa, and the other pre-AI voice activated assistance have declined in apparent comprehension, I'm not convinced it's entirely a degradation of the tech itself, but a significant increase in expectations and a subsequent decrease in articulation and diction thanks to VoiceGPT being able to handle it. As a result, we talk more naturally, with "uh"s, "um"s, pauses, bad grammar, slang, etc. Let's also acknowledge there's probably a statistically significant number of people (if for no other reason than them aging up into being able to afford/have said devices) that never used that "old" tech "Back in the day" of 2-3 years ago, who's only experience with it is using VoiceGPT first, then trying Siri or what have you and coming to the conclusion that the other voice assistant sucks. That's obviously not a "Fair" comparison, but it's one that gets made in the real all the time regardless when it comes to the court of public opinion, and informs pubic perception at large anyway.
Truthfully I think it's both, but regardless, it's failing to perform in an area where it once did. How much of that is the people changing, and how much of that is the technology, I'm not sure. But I doubt the cause is because we all suddenly switched accents on it.
Doesn't matter how many languages or accents there are. The problem is that there was an established, large subset of those that it once understood and could comprehend, and now, that allegedly same technology - with several years of opportunities to mature and improve - is now struggling to understand those same people that it once could.
That as nothing to do with accents.
Now, while I acknowledge and agree that Siri, Alexa, and the other pre-AI voice activated assistance have declined in apparent comprehension, I'm not convinced it's entirely a degradation of the tech itself, but a significant increase in expectations and a subsequent decrease in articulation and diction thanks to VoiceGPT being able to handle it. As a result, we talk more naturally, with "uh"s, "um"s, pauses, bad grammar, slang, etc. Let's also acknowledge there's probably a statistically significant number of people (if for no other reason than them aging up into being able to afford/have said devices) that never used that "old" tech "Back in the day" of 2-3 years ago, who's only experience with it is using VoiceGPT first, then trying Siri or what have you and coming to the conclusion that the other voice assistant sucks. That's obviously not a "Fair" comparison, but it's one that gets made in the real all the time regardless when it comes to the court of public opinion, and informs pubic perception at large anyway.
Truthfully I think it's both, but regardless, it's failing to perform in an area where it once did. How much of that is the people changing, and how much of that is the technology, I'm not sure. But I doubt the cause is because we all suddenly switched accents on it.
No, for it to only be an accent, humans kind of have to understand each other - mutual intelligibility and all that. We’re pretty good at interpreting imperfect input.
Man alexa is bad. I got the high end one with a display. It was impressively stupid, didn't seem to "know" anything. It would either fail, or just return search results. Would annoying display something interesting on the display and ask you to inquire about it, only to profess it knew nothing when asked. I ended up unplugging it.
Google Assistant on the other hand "knew" things. List movies from a director, verify if an actor was in a movie, pull random facts like the wheelbase of a 2004 subaru WRX. When having a discussion with friends/family I'd rather ask google to verify something then the annoying habit of checking out the conversation to check my phone. Last thing I want is to hang out with people who mostly end up looking at their phones.
GA does seem stupider than it was, seems like they are using a smaller model for cheaper inference. But GA still pretty good at random facts, weather, timers, alarm clock, playing music, broadcasting to the household, and related.
Google Assistant on the other hand "knew" things. List movies from a director, verify if an actor was in a movie, pull random facts like the wheelbase of a 2004 subaru WRX. When having a discussion with friends/family I'd rather ask google to verify something then the annoying habit of checking out the conversation to check my phone. Last thing I want is to hang out with people who mostly end up looking at their phones.
GA does seem stupider than it was, seems like they are using a smaller model for cheaper inference. But GA still pretty good at random facts, weather, timers, alarm clock, playing music, broadcasting to the household, and related.
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> Would you pay to use Alexa?
I won’t even use it for free. We already live in a surveillance state. At this point the wisest course of action is to launder your thoughtcrimes through multiple privacy-enhancing services.
I won’t even use it for free. We already live in a surveillance state. At this point the wisest course of action is to launder your thoughtcrimes through multiple privacy-enhancing services.
My recently purchased truck came with Alexia. I think they wanted $10/month to enable it's full functionality. Today I figured out how to hide the Alexia button from the main UI, and I celebrated.
I am thinking they must know this and that this is actually a 3.5D chess move that they can use to get the political will to finally axe the product or at least significantly gut it. It’s well known how much of a money loser voice assistants have been and Alexa is one of the largest. A bet that didn’t really pay off.
Siri seems fine. Runs on device, does homekit things really well…
Siri is not fine in the slightest. It was great in previous iOS versions, but after the recent update to iOS 17 it doesn’t function. Misses at least half of my “Hey Siris”, doesn’t respond to a fair portion of requests, and what it does respond to it does so in a way that was inferior than pre-17, either by being painfully slow or failing in some fashion.
Weird, it’s significantly better for me. Definitely faster. “siri all lights on” is near instant on Siri but multiple seconds of waiting via google/nest home.
You also dont have to say “hey siri” anymore, “siri” is enough.
You also dont have to say “hey siri” anymore, “siri” is enough.
I am very doubtful this will happen. If it does it's among the most boneheaded moves of the century.
No one's interested in paying for it. It's a mild convenience at the cost of letting Amazon into your home. It's not something I believe basically anyone is willing to pay for. It's something we use begrudgingly because it's convenient.
The only reason I even have Alexa devices in my house at all is Amazon kept throwing them at be for free when attending Amazon events like Re:Invent - I wanted to go Google Home, but I just got buried in devices.
I control my lights with Alexa and listen to podcasts. I'll just use my phone if they try to charge me.
No one's interested in paying for it. It's a mild convenience at the cost of letting Amazon into your home. It's not something I believe basically anyone is willing to pay for. It's something we use begrudgingly because it's convenient.
The only reason I even have Alexa devices in my house at all is Amazon kept throwing them at be for free when attending Amazon events like Re:Invent - I wanted to go Google Home, but I just got buried in devices.
I control my lights with Alexa and listen to podcasts. I'll just use my phone if they try to charge me.
Execs think progress towards human level intelligence is on a linear trajectory, inevitably to be finished soon after waiting out some development delays, just like any CRUD app. And it's adorable.
I use Siri on my phone every day. Mainly to set timers and alarm clocks or to check the weather.
I don’t believe I’ve ever used it regularly for anything else. Maybe once in a while I’ll be driving and I’ll ask Siri for directions to some place.
It’s difficult to see why anybody would bother paying monthly subscription money for Alexa. If you have an iPhone Siri can do all the basic stuff (set timers, look up the weather) that Alexa can.
Do some people use Alexa to adjust their home lights and stuff? Would non-wealthy people actually pay money in the form of a monthly subscription just so Alexa can adjust your home lights?
Seems like Amazon’s strategy here doesn’t make sense to me. But I’m not Jeff Bezos so what do I know….
I don’t believe I’ve ever used it regularly for anything else. Maybe once in a while I’ll be driving and I’ll ask Siri for directions to some place.
It’s difficult to see why anybody would bother paying monthly subscription money for Alexa. If you have an iPhone Siri can do all the basic stuff (set timers, look up the weather) that Alexa can.
Do some people use Alexa to adjust their home lights and stuff? Would non-wealthy people actually pay money in the form of a monthly subscription just so Alexa can adjust your home lights?
Seems like Amazon’s strategy here doesn’t make sense to me. But I’m not Jeff Bezos so what do I know….
We use Alexa every day for lights, weather, and timers for cooking. It understands us correctly 98% of the time. The compelling thing about it is that it works purely by voice. I don't have to push any buttons. We have 4 Echos in different rooms so I don't have to have my phone on me all the time.
you used your phone to adjust the lights at home and checking the weather?
Talk about inventing problems.
Talk about inventing problems.
I live in Colorado, the weather can vary 30F in just a few hours. If I'm in a hurry to leave, it's pretty useful to get the weather for the next few hours without having to stop and grab a device.
According to my research, 30f swing does not appear linear and i cannot tell if that would be significant or not.
Still, my main point was the lights. I guess I am well into minority situation since turning them on/off is easier than talking to a thing or, god forbid, using a phone.
From experience, I just as baffling to these people as they are to me.
Still, my main point was the lights. I guess I am well into minority situation since turning them on/off is easier than talking to a thing or, god forbid, using a phone.
From experience, I just as baffling to these people as they are to me.
I have a house with 3 levels and when I moved in, 2 of those levels had analog thermostats. I'd be watching TV in the basement with the heat set to 68, go upstairs to bed, and realize I'd left the heat up so I'd trudge back down stairs, change the temperature, and then go back to bed. I ended up replacing everything with Nest thermostats within a few months so I could adjust them from my phone if necessary. Then Alexa came along and I could just lay in bed and tell it to do things, which was even more convenient.
I also have kids that are terrible at turning things off, so I've stuck one smart bulb in each of their rooms and quietly conditioned them to prefer that light to some of the switch-activated lighting so I can just centrally switch them all off once they're gone or when leaving the house without trekking around.
I also have kids that are terrible at turning things off, so I've stuck one smart bulb in each of their rooms and quietly conditioned them to prefer that light to some of the switch-activated lighting so I can just centrally switch them all off once they're gone or when leaving the house without trekking around.
I don't use the lights, doesn't seem worth it. Companies in that space seem to either charge insane prices, or go out of business regularly. Not to mention the space is fragmented by zigbee, zwave, and wifi. Add a $5 esp8266 to a bulb, switch, or thermostat and it increases in price 10x or more.
However I can tell you that it's really handy to set timers for cooking, checking weather, or even just checking the time when your hands are busy or dirty.
However I can tell you that it's really handy to set timers for cooking, checking weather, or even just checking the time when your hands are busy or dirty.
> Still, my main point was the lights. I guess I am well into minority situation since turning them on/off is easier than talking to a thing or, god forbid, using a phone.
My dad uses Alexa routines for lights and shutters. Turning the shutters up when the sun rises, and down again when the sun sets.
My dad uses Alexa routines for lights and shutters. Turning the shutters up when the sun rises, and down again when the sun sets.
I have a single smart plug that I use to control a light that's inconvenient to reach, but frequently needed.
Siri has no trouble controlling that.
I often use Siri to play music, either from my library or from the free Apple Music radio selection. It rarely has trouble with that (provided the environment isn't noisy).
I use it regularly to add items to the grocery list when my hands are full or covered in raw chicken or something.
I don't think there's a lot Alexa can do that Siri can't, besides letting you spend money directly on Amazon products (if that's still a thing).
Would I pay a subscription to do these things if that were the only way to access them?
Honestly, I don't know. It's hugely convenient to be able to do it, and it's definitely become habit to do so in various ways. I would absolutely be pissed at Apple if they pulled a move like this.
Siri has no trouble controlling that.
I often use Siri to play music, either from my library or from the free Apple Music radio selection. It rarely has trouble with that (provided the environment isn't noisy).
I use it regularly to add items to the grocery list when my hands are full or covered in raw chicken or something.
I don't think there's a lot Alexa can do that Siri can't, besides letting you spend money directly on Amazon products (if that's still a thing).
Would I pay a subscription to do these things if that were the only way to access them?
Honestly, I don't know. It's hugely convenient to be able to do it, and it's definitely become habit to do so in various ways. I would absolutely be pissed at Apple if they pulled a move like this.
That’s part of the point I’m making though.
Why pay a subscription to Amazon for Alexa when Siri offers all this for free?
I can understand if someone pays a one time payment to get an Alexa smart speaker for convenience. But a monthly subscription? Doesn’t make sense when Siri is free
Why pay a subscription to Amazon for Alexa when Siri offers all this for free?
I can understand if someone pays a one time payment to get an Alexa smart speaker for convenience. But a monthly subscription? Doesn’t make sense when Siri is free
is Jeff still involved in this kind of decisions?
Indeed; to my eyes, Amazon has set course more directly towards enshittification since Bezos left day-to-day involvement.
I wonder if ‘customer obsession’ means less to his successor;or maybe the new boss’ success is judged differently (eg profit) than in Bezos’ time?
I wonder if ‘customer obsession’ means less to his successor;or maybe the new boss’ success is judged differently (eg profit) than in Bezos’ time?
> Amazon has set course more directly towards enshittification
Maybe, but I have not noticed any significant change in the day to day quality of the service compared to when Jeff was around. Have you?
Maybe, but I have not noticed any significant change in the day to day quality of the service compared to when Jeff was around. Have you?
>"If this fails to get revenue, Alexa is in trouble.”
They oughta just save themselves the time and effort and just call it now.
They oughta just save themselves the time and effort and just call it now.
I've avoided Alexa for years. I've never had any interest in anything voice controlled. Anyway one day at the Amazon checkout, Amazon wanted to sell me an Echo Pop for I think it was $20. I figured I'll give it a try, I can afford to lose $20 and not be too grumpy about it.
I found the whole experience very underwhelming. Alexa frequently misunderstood me. At one time I tried asking it to play a particular type of music and it said I require a subscription. I tried some of the skills and they were total garbage. And then there are the privacy issues. I live alone so I was not too concerned but I would always make sure it was off before using the phone.
The only thing I would really want to use a product like Alexa for and pay for it with a subscription is if I could use it for language learning. But my bar for this is very high. I'm not interested in something that just feeds me phrases to learn. It would need to combine the capabilities of ChatGPT with the ability to adapt its output to my level, provide useful feedback, and have excellent voice recognition for bad accents and the ability to suggest improvements to my pronunciation and grammar. I don't see this happening any time soon.
I found the whole experience very underwhelming. Alexa frequently misunderstood me. At one time I tried asking it to play a particular type of music and it said I require a subscription. I tried some of the skills and they were total garbage. And then there are the privacy issues. I live alone so I was not too concerned but I would always make sure it was off before using the phone.
The only thing I would really want to use a product like Alexa for and pay for it with a subscription is if I could use it for language learning. But my bar for this is very high. I'm not interested in something that just feeds me phrases to learn. It would need to combine the capabilities of ChatGPT with the ability to adapt its output to my level, provide useful feedback, and have excellent voice recognition for bad accents and the ability to suggest improvements to my pronunciation and grammar. I don't see this happening any time soon.
LLMs can write fanfiction and Alexa/Siri fail to understand a single sentence unless it's in the one word order they get.
Hey Siri, set an alarm for 5pm and call it “take out trash”
Got it. Your alarm for 5pm “collet take out trash” is set.
Got it. Your alarm for 5pm “collet take out trash” is set.
Actually my Siri can’t start a chronometer or read the last SMS. Starting a chronometer by voice is especially useful while jogging, since the iPhone is tucked deep in pockets.
I’d not be surprised if the hardware division of MSFT (Surface) is working on a personal assistant product powered by OpenAI. It’s easy to see how good it could be : I find the hands-free voice interface of the ChatGPT iOS app really good at handling conversations, some slight improvement above that (eg dealing with latency on either side) in a polished MSFT hardware product would beamazing
Zero percent chance I would pay for these assistants. Due to how useless they are I have been considering removing my Google home devices. In some ways they are worse now than launch. I suspect Alexa devices are similar.
Other than sometimes not understanding what I’m calling my devices (mostly lights, and mostly because I don’t have them named consistently), my Google Home devices work just fine.
I keep seeing articles about complaints with Alexa, but we use Google Home quite a bit without any of these problems.
It’s not perfect, but any issues we have with them now are the same issues we’ve always had with them. I don’t know of any regressions.
But maybe we don’t use those features?
We mostly use it to control our smart devices (lights, vacuums), set timers, ask it questions (that we would otherwise Google), and play music on Spotify. The most common uses, I would think.
I keep seeing articles about complaints with Alexa, but we use Google Home quite a bit without any of these problems.
It’s not perfect, but any issues we have with them now are the same issues we’ve always had with them. I don’t know of any regressions.
But maybe we don’t use those features?
We mostly use it to control our smart devices (lights, vacuums), set timers, ask it questions (that we would otherwise Google), and play music on Spotify. The most common uses, I would think.
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I was pretty bought into the Alexa ecosystem, however I started selling devices with a screen, and never connected my wired smart-home to it.
It’s pretty stupid that I can’t easily watch YouTube on it. Also it’s becoming really annoying with talking a lot more instead of just doing what I asked for. With moves towards LLM integration I fear we will soon get dialogues like „switch on the light“ - „I’m sorry, Dave - I can’t do that“.
We used our Echo daily for years until one day I factory reset it and couldn't get it to connect to my network. After that it got unplugged and never replaced. I really liked having a home assistant, and wished for an even-better TNG-type voice computer. The shopping list app wasn't very good (bad sync). Now I use Siri on my Apple watch, and most of the time it works fine. My demands aren't complex.
I wish the voice assistant field got more complex and better. It was a neat tech diversion.
I wish the voice assistant field got more complex and better. It was a neat tech diversion.
Seeing what chatgpt can do with voice, it's pretty obvious just how bad googlehome/alexa/siri are. It would be logical for them to get into the 'voice assistant' space in some way.
As a standalone service I think most people would switch to Siri or Google assistant rather than pay Alexa plus unless it was significantly more useful.
I think people would pay for an all encompassing home awareness ai integrating smart devices but also Blink cameras. Subscribing to Blink is already compelling, if you add control and identification of people and intentions into Blink along with an ai controlled home that could be worth a subscription
They are considering charging because Alexa is about to get a massive update with agent capabilities. If you are paying 20/month for gpt4, you are probably willing to pay much more for amazons equivalent but that can actually do things for you like get groceries, get things delivered, one command purchase, etc. maybe even buy plane lowest cost plane tickets or make reservations.
If it could really do all that stuff then wouldn't amazon just earn a commission on all those purchases and call it a win?
Also funny how all of the capabilities noted boil down to "Alexa can spend your money more easily and quickly".
Also funny how all of the capabilities noted boil down to "Alexa can spend your money more easily and quickly".
If it gets good LLM abilities then I'm sure I'd use it more, but I still won't use it to buy things and I don't think many people will. I genuinely wonder how many people are happy to routinely buy things without the most cursory ability to compare prices and options.
Natrator: as it turned out, the update was mediocre at best, and did none of the things advertised
Do the current Alexa devices do their voice recognition on device on in cloud? Curious what are their operational costs for the service, because I naively thought that the device handled the basic operations (timer, weather) with some API calls which should be minimal data.
Switching out to a novel AI model just to stay hip sounds expensive.
Switching out to a novel AI model just to stay hip sounds expensive.
Speech recognition on edge devices is still very compute intensive—it's either too slow or inaccurate or constrained in what it can recognize. Alexa and Google both still stream audio to the cloud for processing, though the wake word detection is typically done locally.
Modern phones are starting to do more processing locally and I could see that making its way to the smart speakers as well if they survive as a product category, but they're definitely paying for compute on most existing devices.
Modern phones are starting to do more processing locally and I could see that making its way to the smart speakers as well if they survive as a product category, but they're definitely paying for compute on most existing devices.
Good to know. I realize Whisper is new, but I have been blown away by its performance. I would think a revamped device could do all of the processing locally.
Probably anathema to the space, but if the devices leaned into the ~five tasks people use them for (timers, weather, todo list?) could probably tighten up the AI models to be more accurate and/or resource efficient.
Probably anathema to the space, but if the devices leaned into the ~five tasks people use them for (timers, weather, todo list?) could probably tighten up the AI models to be more accurate and/or resource efficient.
Yeah, whisper is the closest thing we have, but even it requires more processing power than is present in most of these edge devices in order to feel smooth. I've started a voice interface project on a Raspberry Pi 4, and it takes about 3 seconds to produce a result. That's impressive, but not fast enough for Alexa.
From what I gather a Pi 5 can do it in 1.5 seconds, which is closer, so I suspect it's only a matter of time before we do have fully local STT running directly on speakers.
> Probably anathema to the space, but if the devices leaned into the ~five tasks people use them for (timers, weather, todo list?) could probably tighten up the AI models to be more accurate and/or resource efficient.
Yes, this is the approach taken by a lot of streaming STT systems, like Kaldi [0]. Rather than use a fully capable model, you train a specialized one that knows what kinds of things people are likely to say to it.
[0] http://kaldi-asr.org/
From what I gather a Pi 5 can do it in 1.5 seconds, which is closer, so I suspect it's only a matter of time before we do have fully local STT running directly on speakers.
> Probably anathema to the space, but if the devices leaned into the ~five tasks people use them for (timers, weather, todo list?) could probably tighten up the AI models to be more accurate and/or resource efficient.
Yes, this is the approach taken by a lot of streaming STT systems, like Kaldi [0]. Rather than use a fully capable model, you train a specialized one that knows what kinds of things people are likely to say to it.
[0] http://kaldi-asr.org/
Alexa is almost entirely cloud-based. The devices are mostly just a speaker, a microphone, and a power supply. That s why they’re so cheap and why Alexa has been added to so many different form factors and device types.
Unless it is complimentary with prime, I am not adding one more SUBSCRIPTION to my life.
I use my Alexa to start my vacuum cleaner (maybe 3-5 times a week), to set timers (about once a week) and to check the temperature outside (less than once a month).
I wouldn't pay $1 for this, it's all stuff that my phone can already do.
I wouldn't pay $1 for this, it's all stuff that my phone can already do.
From the article it sounds like it will only be the AI-"improved" version that is charged for. Which is fine, because I really don't want that version.
Sorry to say this, but even if Amazon paid ME $10/mo to use it, I wouldn't. It's that awful.
"by the way"... is why I will be glad to have an excuse to cancel in June.
But how will Amazon sell all those Echo products without Alexa?
Where do I get my refund?
This got downvoted, but the product I bought will no longer be functioning due to no action of my own. It will have zero utility. I can't think of anything else that I own that got obsoleted in that way.
Presumably it won't even be able to play music anymore.
Presumably it won't even be able to play music anymore.
I'd be fine if Amazon unlocks it or gives us the source. Let us at least save the devices from the dump.
And more enshittifaction
I'd read a book on the inside story of the failure of this product. From cute, moderately useful novelty to glitchy, nagging revenue grab that takes it upon itself to come into your home with "offers". Eroding goodwill, missing the boat on AI you're naturally leveraged to integrate with your large installed base, it's shiny object middle management bingo.