Elevated anxiety levels about career uncertainty
21 comments
You're young, which also means that you're cheap. Your cheapness means that you're more employable than someone with 10y+ experience who'll expect 150k+ salaries. So your chances to be let go are low because you're not that costly. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.
If you're still very worried about lay offs, you should talk to your manager about it. Like you go to him and tell him "I'm scared shitless about being let go, I can't sleep". Maybe he'll tell you that the company is doing great, and the division is growing and there is zero chance you're going to be fired. If he tells you that you should be worried, it's time to take the bull by the horns and dust off your resume.
Regardless you can start looking for other jobs right now, just to see if your resume works and to tweak it if necessary. It can also help you get better at interviewing. And you know, if you land a job somewhere else, it might even make you more money... A decent share of developers jump ship all the time, it's the best way to make your salary go up.
Regarding the degree: A shit CS degree is probably worse than no degree at all. You learn very little of practical value in CS (even in good schools). A good CS degree is just a stamp of approval that you were good in school. A bad CS degree tells the recruiters that you tried and failed to get a good CS degree, so it's like a stamp of disapproval. A degree in something different means you tried different things, and that you're motivated enough to learn things yourself, it's a much better story.
Anyways, good luck, and take it easy, there's plenty of jobs out there, and you don't compete with the people being laid off that much.
If you're still very worried about lay offs, you should talk to your manager about it. Like you go to him and tell him "I'm scared shitless about being let go, I can't sleep". Maybe he'll tell you that the company is doing great, and the division is growing and there is zero chance you're going to be fired. If he tells you that you should be worried, it's time to take the bull by the horns and dust off your resume.
Regardless you can start looking for other jobs right now, just to see if your resume works and to tweak it if necessary. It can also help you get better at interviewing. And you know, if you land a job somewhere else, it might even make you more money... A decent share of developers jump ship all the time, it's the best way to make your salary go up.
Regarding the degree: A shit CS degree is probably worse than no degree at all. You learn very little of practical value in CS (even in good schools). A good CS degree is just a stamp of approval that you were good in school. A bad CS degree tells the recruiters that you tried and failed to get a good CS degree, so it's like a stamp of disapproval. A degree in something different means you tried different things, and that you're motivated enough to learn things yourself, it's a much better story.
Anyways, good luck, and take it easy, there's plenty of jobs out there, and you don't compete with the people being laid off that much.
"Your cheapness means that you're more employable than someone with 10y+ experience who'll expect 150k+ salaries."
I have 10+yoe and my salary is cheap (<$100k). The future still looks shakey.
I have 10+yoe and my salary is cheap (<$100k). The future still looks shakey.
This is the first time younger (<15 years experience) have seen a 'bad' outlook for programmers. Ask the older guys - they'll tell you, it happens every 10-15 years and bounces back within a year or two. Also - from what I'm seeing, there's still a lot of places hiring, its just not as fast/easy as it was before.
If you currently have a job - just keep racking up the experience, maybe pick up some 'in demand' new tech, and remember - it will get better :-) (PS - personally, I wouldn't go with 'AI' atm - by the time you have enough background to get a job in it, I'm guessing the market will be flooded...but thats just a feeling)
If you currently have a job - just keep racking up the experience, maybe pick up some 'in demand' new tech, and remember - it will get better :-) (PS - personally, I wouldn't go with 'AI' atm - by the time you have enough background to get a job in it, I'm guessing the market will be flooded...but thats just a feeling)
I'm sorry you feel so scared. Even if the fears aren't real, they feel real, and our body responds to them as if they were real. So your fears may be irrational, but the pain is very real.
I think the first thing worth saying is that, in my experience, this anxiety is more common than you'd think. The common narrative is that a young man (and it's always a man, right?) has only a few short years to make it big before it becomes clear to the world they're worthless. Never mind that zero data backs this up, this is about narrative, and storytelling always trumps data.
So you come out of college, you've taken two breaths, got some kind of job, you're 24 and time is running out. Naturally, you begin to question everything you've done up to this point, and feel you have one last ditch to fix it...or else.
The thing to understand is that this is not life. This is not how life works. This is a story that is so evidently fictional, that the only thing stopping you from seeing it is sheer panic.
You say you're scared for your future in software engineering. I am assuming you see, right now, a future you want in software engineering? (Because maybe you don't actually want it, just feel it's 'the path' to somewhere?) Because if you do want to be in software engineering, school is not the fix. Learning and doing is the fix. (I am massively formally educated in CS. And I still stand by everything I just said.)
Life is long - especially from where you're standing now. You've just started. You're not doomed. If you lose your job, then you'll have lost your job. You may be out of a job for a while, and then you find another job. And then you leave that one, because you got a better one. You may get an opportunity to relocate and seize that. You may meet someone and decide it's a good idea to move halfway around the world. All along, you're picking up skills and know how. If you're even just a bit methodic about building up your skills, you'll find that jus five years down the line, you already know some actually useful stuff.
It's just the way it goes.
I think the first thing worth saying is that, in my experience, this anxiety is more common than you'd think. The common narrative is that a young man (and it's always a man, right?) has only a few short years to make it big before it becomes clear to the world they're worthless. Never mind that zero data backs this up, this is about narrative, and storytelling always trumps data.
So you come out of college, you've taken two breaths, got some kind of job, you're 24 and time is running out. Naturally, you begin to question everything you've done up to this point, and feel you have one last ditch to fix it...or else.
The thing to understand is that this is not life. This is not how life works. This is a story that is so evidently fictional, that the only thing stopping you from seeing it is sheer panic.
You say you're scared for your future in software engineering. I am assuming you see, right now, a future you want in software engineering? (Because maybe you don't actually want it, just feel it's 'the path' to somewhere?) Because if you do want to be in software engineering, school is not the fix. Learning and doing is the fix. (I am massively formally educated in CS. And I still stand by everything I just said.)
Life is long - especially from where you're standing now. You've just started. You're not doomed. If you lose your job, then you'll have lost your job. You may be out of a job for a while, and then you find another job. And then you leave that one, because you got a better one. You may get an opportunity to relocate and seize that. You may meet someone and decide it's a good idea to move halfway around the world. All along, you're picking up skills and know how. If you're even just a bit methodic about building up your skills, you'll find that jus five years down the line, you already know some actually useful stuff.
It's just the way it goes.
Im not sure if your current job role includes programming or software engineering, but as a software dev whose struggled to get a job amid all the layoffs this past year, i wouldn't recommend pursuing a CS degree if you only want it for money and an immediate return on investment.
With AI and ML running rampant, the barrier to entry now is a lot higher and you will be competing with other engineers for jobs.
However, just like you mentioned you don't have a formal CS education but landed a job, you could likewise get a CS degree and land a gig unrelated to tech. A degree shouldn't force you to do anything, if you like it pursue it.
With AI and ML running rampant, the barrier to entry now is a lot higher and you will be competing with other engineers for jobs.
However, just like you mentioned you don't have a formal CS education but landed a job, you could likewise get a CS degree and land a gig unrelated to tech. A degree shouldn't force you to do anything, if you like it pursue it.
In tech, getting laid off is scary until... you actually get laid off. :) Then, the world doesn't end. In fact, it can make you apply for the job you should have applied for before but didn't know about, or were too risk-averse to jump ship for. A 50-yr-old with no formal qualifications or specialist skills getting laid off, sure , that's scary cos they're less employable. But age 24 with a recent degree, energy, and recent tech experience. you'd be fine. I've been laid off twice in a 30+ yr career. Both times, I got a job that was better, including better paid. And left unpleasant environments for better ones. And had a nice break doing interesting things between jobs. I've many colleagues who'd say the same. Some even say "its the best thing that could have happened to me". It helps to build up some savings. Should be do-able even on a modest tech salary. Getting another degree - my advice, consider studying part-time, somewhere that allows it to be done at flexible pace - maybe a Masters in Comp Sci by distance learning, at a place which allows those with non-comp-sci undergrad to treat it as a conversion course. You could do certification like AWS but beware that's got a short shelf-life whereas a Comp Sci Masters looks good on paper for decades (as well as improving excellent fundamentals). If you do get laid off, generally, some severance gets paid. Which you could use for tuition fees. When else do you get paid for NOT going to work? ;) I'd say , regarding job insecurity, embrace it and learn to roll with it. Or, if you really can't cos you're a "worrier", consider working for the government as although it sometimes pays less, its a lot steadier and you don't have to fret.
You need therapy. It's not a good idea to explain/justify mental health issues with some external factors. It's all in your head. The worst that can happen if you can't find a job, is that you just wait for a short bit until the economy rebounds. That's life, and it's not the reason to loose sleep.
Anxiety is a powerful emotion and can be leveraged into massive creativity.
Think of your emotions as a means of your subconscious telling you something important and the message is, in your case: You are underprepared.
So instead of succumbing to the dark-side of anxiety, heed the call and rise to the challenge.
Since you’re a programmer, start building projects that demonstrate your skills, and even better, building them up.
Challenge your self to build a small project every weekend and post it on a portfolio website despite any fears of judgement.
In a years time you will have 52 unquestionable examples of your competence that not only will attract the attention of your employers, but future employers as well.
Plus, and most importantly, your portfolio will give you the confidence you’re looking for and your subconscious will thank you.
Think of your emotions as a means of your subconscious telling you something important and the message is, in your case: You are underprepared.
So instead of succumbing to the dark-side of anxiety, heed the call and rise to the challenge.
Since you’re a programmer, start building projects that demonstrate your skills, and even better, building them up.
Challenge your self to build a small project every weekend and post it on a portfolio website despite any fears of judgement.
In a years time you will have 52 unquestionable examples of your competence that not only will attract the attention of your employers, but future employers as well.
Plus, and most importantly, your portfolio will give you the confidence you’re looking for and your subconscious will thank you.
I wouldn't worry. There'll be jobs.
You've been reading too much Hacker News. There's a disproportionate amount of people who are employed and don't post.
People posting about their experiences of being laid off or having trouble finding a new job need to be heard. We are here to support them and have a good conversation, so they can get through this phase in their lives.
Life is somewhat unique, and you'll have your highs and lows. There's no way to prevent you from pain and suffering in life; whatever comes, you'll need to figure your way out, but only when it comes.
It would be best to do what you like instead of focusing on CS. Everything has cycles, and it seems we are at the end of one cycle. Soon enough, we'll have a new one.
Go enjoy your life and live day after day; also, please make sure to take care of your personal finances, never live above your means, and save some, and I'm sure you'll do just fine.
Worrying about the future won't solve anything.
Also, if you are concerned about AI and the current mentions from top industry experts that say we'll have AGI soon, it's all BS. They just want to fil their egos.
I wish there would be consequences for them to create such fuzz and this terrible mental state into others, by lying and making cocky predictions. But karma will make sure they'll get what they deserve.
You've been reading too much Hacker News. There's a disproportionate amount of people who are employed and don't post.
People posting about their experiences of being laid off or having trouble finding a new job need to be heard. We are here to support them and have a good conversation, so they can get through this phase in their lives.
Life is somewhat unique, and you'll have your highs and lows. There's no way to prevent you from pain and suffering in life; whatever comes, you'll need to figure your way out, but only when it comes.
It would be best to do what you like instead of focusing on CS. Everything has cycles, and it seems we are at the end of one cycle. Soon enough, we'll have a new one.
Go enjoy your life and live day after day; also, please make sure to take care of your personal finances, never live above your means, and save some, and I'm sure you'll do just fine.
Worrying about the future won't solve anything.
Also, if you are concerned about AI and the current mentions from top industry experts that say we'll have AGI soon, it's all BS. They just want to fil their egos.
I wish there would be consequences for them to create such fuzz and this terrible mental state into others, by lying and making cocky predictions. But karma will make sure they'll get what they deserve.
If you already have a job, another degree won't do much. Focus on the job.
So, I too was a young 20something in a previously bad job market many many years ago, and I coped by having very low living expenses.
If you know you can support your bare minimum expenses by getting a job tending bar or waiting tables, that should relieve quite a lot of stress.
I did this by renting a room in a house, instead of paying 3x or more to have my own apartment.
No one cares if you rent a room in your 20s. I was able to save a lot since most of the time I was making good money and kept my expenses low. It was financially prudent and I slept soundly, despite having a lack of job security.
If you know you can support your bare minimum expenses by getting a job tending bar or waiting tables, that should relieve quite a lot of stress.
I did this by renting a room in a house, instead of paying 3x or more to have my own apartment.
No one cares if you rent a room in your 20s. I was able to save a lot since most of the time I was making good money and kept my expenses low. It was financially prudent and I slept soundly, despite having a lack of job security.
Meditation and therapy will help.
Layoffs and getting fired suck but you will be ok and life goes on! Honestly I use to get panic attacks about them but going through Jon changes helped me realize that I am relentlessly resourceful and can manage life.
It can be hard to see that in the moment but life is about constant change. So always be learning and do good work. Find some things to do that give you joy and happiness.
Also network and build your community. Friends, colleagues and so forth. It’s dangerous to go alone in life so take some friends with you!
Layoffs and getting fired suck but you will be ok and life goes on! Honestly I use to get panic attacks about them but going through Jon changes helped me realize that I am relentlessly resourceful and can manage life.
It can be hard to see that in the moment but life is about constant change. So always be learning and do good work. Find some things to do that give you joy and happiness.
Also network and build your community. Friends, colleagues and so forth. It’s dangerous to go alone in life so take some friends with you!
You can't control whether there are layoffs, but you can control how to handle one. Update your resume and LinkedIn, so that if/when you need to look for a new job you're already ready. Also do go out and socialize. If you need to justify it, think of it as networking. There's a good chance that the people you meet, may be able to help you find a new job or intro you to someone.
If you want to go to uni for tech go for physics, CE, ME, or EE. Machines will still exist in the future. Software development as we know it likely will not or the need for workers will be greatly reduced due to various forms of automation.
Physics and machines aren’t going anywhere and you can pick up the most useful programming patterns via YouTube to augment those skills
Physics and machines aren’t going anywhere and you can pick up the most useful programming patterns via YouTube to augment those skills
I dunno … I have a few friends who have physics degrees, and they basically do not use them. They are all doing web dev or data science or got another professional degree afterward. But that was in ZIRP times. Maybe things are different now?
I would choose a degree in a profession that cannot be outsourced. Medicine? Law? I’m not sure, but that would be my primary criterion if I were to go back to school.
I would choose a degree in a profession that cannot be outsourced. Medicine? Law? I’m not sure, but that would be my primary criterion if I were to go back to school.
Physics degrees certify that you're smart, and force you to learn a lot of hard material, so you get good at learning. That's enough for most jobs in this day and age.
Not the worst advice for a high-schooler, but OP has a job. If OP if worried about the next job then they should focus on accumulating and documenting wins at the current job.
I had an almost identical struggle in college, and have since been working for well-known tech companies for around 10 years without a bachelor's in CS. It really doesn't matter - you'll be okay.
Add a way to contact you in your HN profile (the About box), if you want to chat about it with someone who took the same road you did, years down the line.
Add a way to contact you in your HN profile (the About box), if you want to chat about it with someone who took the same road you did, years down the line.
Offer still stands. Will stop checking in on this thread after this upcoming weekend.
Your anxiety is doing more to damage your future than anything else right now, so spend some time intentionally getting that under control so you can see more clearly and have more energy to make the right decisions for yourself.
Economics happens in cycles, because there's competing balancing loops and runaway loops. Tech makes big money, hires, pays big money to prevent competitors from hiring talent.
Eventually everyone overhires, extrapolates from the status quo ("why am I not making a $600k salary??"). Property prices and living costs go up. People get lazy, processes are bloated because of the overhiring. Tech layoffs happen to control the bleeding and move faster. The balancing loop becomes dominant when growth slows.
Eventually everyone says tech is dead. People tell their kids to become doctors or real engineers instead. Less engineers are on the market, and it will upturn again. This is actually the best time to be in tech - most of my income is from doing Android back when people said I should be quitting tech or making BlackBerry/Windows Phone apps.
The dot com bubble popped in 2000. Web 2.0 bubble appears to have peaked in 2022, but the data is still unclear. So we can assume that there's a 22 year cycle or so. It's not sinusoidal; it's a boom and bust form where it goes up exponentially (slowly) then busts. The dot com bust cycle went from peak to bottom in about 2 years, but I expect this time it might be longer. After the bust, the market is still much stronger than pre boom, but far from the peak.
There's a lot of abstraction here and it can be modeled better, but the tldr is do what you like. Doing a degree takes time. We should be out of the trough by the time you're done. If you want to work hard and grit it out, you can do that too.
I'd say go to a good uni, though. No name ones won't give you any confidence. The benefits lie in the people you meet and the ideas.
Eventually everyone overhires, extrapolates from the status quo ("why am I not making a $600k salary??"). Property prices and living costs go up. People get lazy, processes are bloated because of the overhiring. Tech layoffs happen to control the bleeding and move faster. The balancing loop becomes dominant when growth slows.
Eventually everyone says tech is dead. People tell their kids to become doctors or real engineers instead. Less engineers are on the market, and it will upturn again. This is actually the best time to be in tech - most of my income is from doing Android back when people said I should be quitting tech or making BlackBerry/Windows Phone apps.
The dot com bubble popped in 2000. Web 2.0 bubble appears to have peaked in 2022, but the data is still unclear. So we can assume that there's a 22 year cycle or so. It's not sinusoidal; it's a boom and bust form where it goes up exponentially (slowly) then busts. The dot com bust cycle went from peak to bottom in about 2 years, but I expect this time it might be longer. After the bust, the market is still much stronger than pre boom, but far from the peak.
There's a lot of abstraction here and it can be modeled better, but the tldr is do what you like. Doing a degree takes time. We should be out of the trough by the time you're done. If you want to work hard and grit it out, you can do that too.
I'd say go to a good uni, though. No name ones won't give you any confidence. The benefits lie in the people you meet and the ideas.
Given the current job market, I can't lie if I did not have my current job at a decently sized ecommerce firm, I'd be toast. My anxiety levels about my future are through the roof. Can't even sleep at nights let alone socialize because I'm scared of layoffs and not being competitive enough to go elsewhere.
I keep thinking about doing another degree but this time in CS (from a no name school online), however, people telling me that its not the best use of my time and I should just focus on my career moving forward.
How I can stop getting paralyzing thoughts about the future? My anxiety stems from my undergrad for sure and my failures. I'm trying to use school and a crutch for all my problems and I've realized this. Should I drop everything and go get a bachelor's in CS?