Ask HN: What's the best way to exit tech?
70 comments
I'm currently working to do something akin to this. Would love any feedback.
I've spent my 20 year career designing hardware for many startups and large companies. Some pretty complex things like Kidney Dialysis machines, surgical robotics and artificial hearts.
As a architect, technical leader and having a seemingly "important" role in these things one is not really taken care of in the way one would expect. A lot like the conversation we've all been having about the gutting out of the engineering focused culture in much of our formerly engineering led industries.
I've been working to build a small, simple business that does product design, architecture, engineering services and also has the ability to do injection molding, 3d printing, machining, prototyping, etc all in house, all right here in The SOMA neighborhood of San Francisco.
I'm not trying to solve the most complex problems, be the biggest or fastest growing. I'm just trying to be stable, reputable and reliable, a "small giant".
I've spent my 20 year career designing hardware for many startups and large companies. Some pretty complex things like Kidney Dialysis machines, surgical robotics and artificial hearts.
As a architect, technical leader and having a seemingly "important" role in these things one is not really taken care of in the way one would expect. A lot like the conversation we've all been having about the gutting out of the engineering focused culture in much of our formerly engineering led industries.
I've been working to build a small, simple business that does product design, architecture, engineering services and also has the ability to do injection molding, 3d printing, machining, prototyping, etc all in house, all right here in The SOMA neighborhood of San Francisco.
I'm not trying to solve the most complex problems, be the biggest or fastest growing. I'm just trying to be stable, reputable and reliable, a "small giant".
One of the most interesting people I knew at uni did something like this: open source instrumentation.
https://iorodeo.com/
https://iorodeo.com/
What do you not like about tech? I work in gov space sector and while it’s crazy bureaucratic and risk adverse, it’s a fulfilling mission and most people I work with are just excited to be working “in space” like their 12-year old self dreamed of.
> What do you not like about tech?
I feel that it's no longer about making quality products, but more about milking money by any means, even if immoral and/or obviously (self-)destructive. It may have been like that for some time already, but I wasn't able to realize that before.
It seems to me as if we've become the machine that we wanted to build.
I would love doing something that's more "down to earth". Optimally, in some sector that is involved with treating people with respect - "as if" they were real human beings. An alternative would be working outdoors and being nearer to nature in general.
I feel that it's no longer about making quality products, but more about milking money by any means, even if immoral and/or obviously (self-)destructive. It may have been like that for some time already, but I wasn't able to realize that before.
It seems to me as if we've become the machine that we wanted to build.
I would love doing something that's more "down to earth". Optimally, in some sector that is involved with treating people with respect - "as if" they were real human beings. An alternative would be working outdoors and being nearer to nature in general.
I’m sort off in your boat, I think. Late 40s and quite tired of the tech rat race and money obsession. I’m about 6 months into a totally different thing: writing/selling my own apps (mobile). I have the luxury of a working spouse and some savings so I don’t have to focus too much on speed or high profitability.
I very much like the idea of building the thing I want to, to the quality and aesthetic I want (eg no ads or dark monetization patterns), and selling directly to customer. It’s still early days but it has put me in a good state of mind.
I very much like the idea of building the thing I want to, to the quality and aesthetic I want (eg no ads or dark monetization patterns), and selling directly to customer. It’s still early days but it has put me in a good state of mind.
> I feel that it's no longer about making quality products, but more about milking money by any means
Check out the Handmade online community [0] and/or attend one of our conferences [1] this year.
I’m biased because I’m the organizer for the conferences, but we genuinely share your line of thinking. Wouldn’t hurt to congregate with like-minded folks :)
[0] https://handmade.network
[1] https://handmadecities.com
Check out the Handmade online community [0] and/or attend one of our conferences [1] this year.
I’m biased because I’m the organizer for the conferences, but we genuinely share your line of thinking. Wouldn’t hurt to congregate with like-minded folks :)
[0] https://handmade.network
[1] https://handmadecities.com
How are you planning on affecting the industry at large?
Increasingly bigger conferences and meetups that remain 100% indie and sponsor-free. It’s going to take years, if not a decade.
But let’s not underestimate the power of independent organizing. We haven’t seen much of it in our industry because us worker bees are historically well-paid.
But let’s not underestimate the power of independent organizing. We haven’t seen much of it in our industry because us worker bees are historically well-paid.
I desperately hope you’re right.
Not to be a downer, but I just don’t see how you could convince a business to go slower for the sake of a better technical foundation.
Not to be a downer, but I just don’t see how you could convince a business to go slower for the sake of a better technical foundation.
With enough collective anger, social pressures will factor into business decisions.
It's a nebulous proposition, I get that, because you can't precisely engineer an outcome. My hope is there's enough of us organizing together to trigger the right shifts.
We'll see.
It's a nebulous proposition, I get that, because you can't precisely engineer an outcome. My hope is there's enough of us organizing together to trigger the right shifts.
We'll see.
It doesn't sound like you're sick of tech but rather sick of profit-focused leadership corrupting it. I feel the same way so I'm starting my own business with values that matter to me. If starting a business doesn't appeal to you, then try finding a like-minded non-profit or cooperative.
Not to stop you from trying, I encourage the effort, but I think you’ll find starting your own business will just lead to you to becoming profit-focused - if you like eating and paying rent that is.
Civic tech. Do good work with smart people. Look at 18F, USDS, the Digital Services Coalition consultancies….Some projects are more exciting than others, but these orgs are mission-driven, mostly about improving digital services for Americans.
This sounds good in theory. I’ve tried this with a smaller consultancy. The problem is there’s too much bureaucracy for my tastes, coming from startups. Also I ran into some of the worst code I’ve seen in my life. Maybe I just wound up at the wrong place.
There’s a lot of bureaucracy dealing with the government, no doubt. Also a lot of bad code. Hopefully neither of those were coming from your own team, because yeah, you might have been at the wrong place. I’m at a DSC shop where I’ve worked with ex Apple and Google folks, and some of the USDS people are the best engineers I’ve ever worked with.
Sadly, the code/quality issues were from my team. Bureaucracy issues also, to a lesser extent.
This is the right answer. There’s also the SBIR, if you want to try building something ambitious: https://www.sbir.gov/
Real estate is an option.
Buy a house, fix it up, rent it (most likely short term to avoid tenants squatting your house and being protected by the police), sell it. Repeat.
If you start a business pick a place where economic prospects look good and the government won't ruin you or kill your market. Eg. I wouldn't start anything in any high tax country in Europe or California
If you start a business pick a place where economic prospects look good and the government won't ruin you or kill your market. Eg. I wouldn't start anything in any high tax country in Europe or California
I've done a few flips, and I've found it to be a very satisfying "opposite" of tech work.
All very practical, solving real problems, tangible, working with interesting tradespeople, attorneys, surveyors. There are a few interesting technical aspect to geek out on with legal stuff, codes, heating, plumbing etc.
It's hugely satisfying seeing results of your work, and keeping the rewards, and at the end of the day the sale price or rent speaks for itself. In tech, everything is a matter of opinion, there is so much nonsense about agile and frameworks and tabs vs spaces and whatever else, and at the end of the day the company/shareholders reap the benefits, not you.
All very practical, solving real problems, tangible, working with interesting tradespeople, attorneys, surveyors. There are a few interesting technical aspect to geek out on with legal stuff, codes, heating, plumbing etc.
It's hugely satisfying seeing results of your work, and keeping the rewards, and at the end of the day the sale price or rent speaks for itself. In tech, everything is a matter of opinion, there is so much nonsense about agile and frameworks and tabs vs spaces and whatever else, and at the end of the day the company/shareholders reap the benefits, not you.
Pro tip: do it in a sane country where occupation is impossible.
There are also states in the US where this nonsense is not a thing.
Could you elaborate? I'm from Europe and did some brief research as this is a new topic for me and it seems all states have squatters rights. Are you referring to those that have the longest time until adverse possession? Easiest eviction? Gun laws to deal with it yourself?
If you go to a red state, you are very unlikely to face this problem. Now, if you go to Washington, California, New York, etc, it is scary out there!
Considering the values of OP, I think real estate is not a business he wants to enter in, though I think flipping (of rundown houses) is still on the moral good side.
How about working in an IT job in a non-tech company or organisation?
A charity, academia (not researching yourself, but supporting research), local or national government, etc.
A charity, academia (not researching yourself, but supporting research), local or national government, etc.
Business seems like a logical place to transition to.
You don't like how business is done in your sector? Start a private company and change how the game is played.
I've been listening to some interviews lately with Todd McFarlane[0]. He talks a lot about why he created his various companies and why he could never take any of them public. In one example, he bought a $3m baseball as a loss leader to get into making toys for MLB. He made back his money many times over, but he never would have been allowed to if he had been accountable to shareholders.
[0]: https://tim.blog/guest/todd-mcfarlane/
You don't like how business is done in your sector? Start a private company and change how the game is played.
I've been listening to some interviews lately with Todd McFarlane[0]. He talks a lot about why he created his various companies and why he could never take any of them public. In one example, he bought a $3m baseball as a loss leader to get into making toys for MLB. He made back his money many times over, but he never would have been allowed to if he had been accountable to shareholders.
[0]: https://tim.blog/guest/todd-mcfarlane/
Great, now all I need is someone to give me $3m to buy a 'loss leader', plus another mil or 2 for the actual business.
If I were you, I'd be asking for a clue, first.
I did a one year graduate diploma in secondary teaching, can now teach math, physics and IT.
I taught in Asia for a number of years, easy to find work there if you're a native English speaker.
Another option would be to take up a trade, painting house interiors is something that you can learn fairly quickly, don't need a lot of tools for, and can charge well for.
That being said, each sector has its downsides, trades are quite prone to the boom/bust economic cycle and there are no shortage of, shall we say, mediocre schools around
I taught in Asia for a number of years, easy to find work there if you're a native English speaker.
Another option would be to take up a trade, painting house interiors is something that you can learn fairly quickly, don't need a lot of tools for, and can charge well for.
That being said, each sector has its downsides, trades are quite prone to the boom/bust economic cycle and there are no shortage of, shall we say, mediocre schools around
Based on your other comment I would explore working in a field either with a mission or a small team that isn’t looking to get rich off of an idea. I left a software job for some of the same reasons you stated, but I found I could go back in time by finding a company to join in an earlier stage where customers and reputation still matter more than the dollars or some board of directors.
Science could really use your expertise. Have you considered a job in a research group or facility? See what jobs your university has.
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Have you considered teaching computer science? If you are based in California and you have at least a bachelor’s degree with extensive work experience or a master’s degree, you are eligible to teach at the community college level. Computer science instructors are in high demand at the community college level; there are many students who want to pursue computer science degrees, but staff can be hard to find due to the lure of industry and positions at research universities. Salaries for full-time tenure track positions, especially in the Bay Area, are higher than what many people assume, and your work experience can translate to a higher salary based on the salary tables community college districts in California use. With extensive work experience and a master’s degree it’s possible to start off making six figures. It’s not FAANG pay, but it’s not poverty pay, either.
Another major perk: summer and winter breaks, adding up to roughly three months of the year. In particular, because the salary covers 10 months, you can do whatever you want in the summer (though it’s wise to spend some time prepping for the upcoming term). There are few other full-time jobs in America I can think of with three months off per year.
Because it’s a major investment for a college to hire a tenure-track professor, it’s best to get some part-time teaching experience first so you can find out whether or not you like teaching. I did this at San Jose State University, teaching a course on programming language principles and paradigms at night online during COVID while working full-time as an industry AI researcher. I had a wonderful time and I discovered that I enjoyed all aspects of teaching, even grading (okay, I didn’t enjoy dealing with cases of academic dishonesty, but that comes with teaching). If you have experience teaching in the workplace (for example, giving training exercises in Rust or git), then please empathize this in your applications. Community colleges aren’t solely for educating future transfer students; they are also a valuable lifeline for people looking to build their practical skills.
Another major perk: summer and winter breaks, adding up to roughly three months of the year. In particular, because the salary covers 10 months, you can do whatever you want in the summer (though it’s wise to spend some time prepping for the upcoming term). There are few other full-time jobs in America I can think of with three months off per year.
Because it’s a major investment for a college to hire a tenure-track professor, it’s best to get some part-time teaching experience first so you can find out whether or not you like teaching. I did this at San Jose State University, teaching a course on programming language principles and paradigms at night online during COVID while working full-time as an industry AI researcher. I had a wonderful time and I discovered that I enjoyed all aspects of teaching, even grading (okay, I didn’t enjoy dealing with cases of academic dishonesty, but that comes with teaching). If you have experience teaching in the workplace (for example, giving training exercises in Rust or git), then please empathize this in your applications. Community colleges aren’t solely for educating future transfer students; they are also a valuable lifeline for people looking to build their practical skills.
I use tech to do non-tech things. There's a huge demand for that.
In my case I help people settle in Germany. It's just a website plus a few widgets that support the content. There's just enough tech to scratch an itch, but without the meetings, the sprints and the other corporate annoyances.
I started the website 7 years ago out of frustration with local bureaucracy, and it became my full time job 3 years ago.
I don't think that I was tired of tech. I was just tired of office life in general. I much prefer the chaotic, unstructured nature of self-employment.
In my case I help people settle in Germany. It's just a website plus a few widgets that support the content. There's just enough tech to scratch an itch, but without the meetings, the sprints and the other corporate annoyances.
I started the website 7 years ago out of frustration with local bureaucracy, and it became my full time job 3 years ago.
I don't think that I was tired of tech. I was just tired of office life in general. I much prefer the chaotic, unstructured nature of self-employment.
How does your website generate revenue? I'm assuming it more of a online service platform for new immigrants rather than a immigration blog or guide?
Affiliate links. Immigrants need certain things. I'm affiliated with pretty much all available options, so I can be honest without torpedoing my income.
I'm assuming it's the website linked in your HN profile. Well done, it looks really nice, it seems quite useful for immigrants without being just ad-focused.
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i don't know.. few months ago, i asked myself similar question - should i still keep myself around programming-or-anything-IT - first time in, what, 40 years? i am 54, and been everything from bottom to top, transistors to prolog to CTO, but recently i see only politics and newbie-shortsightedness.. seems IT turned into self-entrenching Institution like all the rest. Maybe i should try hand-carpentery, total-DIY, fix-everything, cook, ... and ignoring the bills..
Mentoring and coaching maybe the only thing that still drives me in (and around that, may turn all the other cogwheels too).. but noone needs/pays-for that either.
hah. Will do some e-foiling. Bake on the sun. Then.. will see then.
email in profile, if you feel like it
Mentoring and coaching maybe the only thing that still drives me in (and around that, may turn all the other cogwheels too).. but noone needs/pays-for that either.
hah. Will do some e-foiling. Bake on the sun. Then.. will see then.
email in profile, if you feel like it
I'm 48 and I'm seriously considering nursing school. The tough part will be not working for 16 months or so while in school. Perhaps I can get part time work.
I'm at a director level position and I am just tired of the field and don't want to be an aging tech worker.
I'm at a director level position and I am just tired of the field and don't want to be an aging tech worker.
i know 2 people that made the transition from other fields to nursing. one was a GIS programmer, the other a paralegal. both women, both pretty intense, type-A people, both named some permutation of Catherine / Kathleen.
both seem to like it. one married a doctor she met during training, and is a surgical ICU nurse. the other works for the WHO and injects vaccines in the 3rd world.
both seem to like it. one married a doctor she met during training, and is a surgical ICU nurse. the other works for the WHO and injects vaccines in the 3rd world.
What are you fed up with? It seems that would be needed to determine if the problem you have is either fixable within tech or if you will be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire by going to something else.
Without knowing anything else, go to law school.
Without knowing anything else, go to law school.
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so, like, what do you want to do? I've posted here before about a friend who went from STEM to Cheese Making as a full-time job -- he loved it, and was already deep in the scene before he made the jump.
if you don't have something like that, see a career counselor, take some tests, think about whatchu want to do. don't say "restaurant or maybe a cafe" since those are going to be hard and will probably fail badly.
if you don't have something like that, see a career counselor, take some tests, think about whatchu want to do. don't say "restaurant or maybe a cafe" since those are going to be hard and will probably fail badly.
Disagree about restaurant. Yes, they’re hard but there’s literally hundreds of thousands of successful examples of restaurants and cafes in the US. I know plenty of people who have this dream and a few who have pressured it successfully. It’s as valid as any other career pivot.
I left tech at 49 and became a lecturer. It's a bank holiday here in Ireland and I write this from a cafe, following a nice walk. Enough said.
Start selling physical products using ecommerce. With the rise of Temu and Shein, the pendulum is all the way in the other direction. But I think people will soon look out and search for good quality, strong brands which are made locally. Learn some fun marketing techniques, do your customer segmentation properly and sell a popular product with a new spin. Lot of money to be made there. I honestly think ex software folks can make great business people because they understand streams and optimization.
A trend among my older colleagues was to teach at high schools in science and maths subjects. They seem to enjoy it very much.
>> What's the best way to exit tech?
Harakiri!! :))
Otherwise getting serious the best approach would be to take a few alternative jobs part time, just to get a taste of the other side. Stacking shelves at Target. Truck driver, butt in the seat for 12-16 hours (illegal technically but if you don't do it you're out of the job), piss in a bottle, away from home for weeks at end. Sales, not hearing a word of kindness your entire existence only how you're missing targets and hang on a thread. Become a hermit and go live in the woods for a while.
You might be dreaming of grass being greener on the other side but my point is that it's mostly brown. Shitty brown, that is.
Harakiri!! :))
Otherwise getting serious the best approach would be to take a few alternative jobs part time, just to get a taste of the other side. Stacking shelves at Target. Truck driver, butt in the seat for 12-16 hours (illegal technically but if you don't do it you're out of the job), piss in a bottle, away from home for weeks at end. Sales, not hearing a word of kindness your entire existence only how you're missing targets and hang on a thread. Become a hermit and go live in the woods for a while.
You might be dreaming of grass being greener on the other side but my point is that it's mostly brown. Shitty brown, that is.
> Become a hermit and go live in the woods for a while.
That sounds great, but unfortunately, it's not feasible where I live.
> You might be dreaming of grass being greener on the other side but my point is that it's mostly brown. Shitty brown, that is.
Kidding aside, I don't even think there is much grass in most places. Looks more like dirty concrete. Unfortunately, tech seems to be on track of getting there quick as well.
That sounds great, but unfortunately, it's not feasible where I live.
> You might be dreaming of grass being greener on the other side but my point is that it's mostly brown. Shitty brown, that is.
Kidding aside, I don't even think there is much grass in most places. Looks more like dirty concrete. Unfortunately, tech seems to be on track of getting there quick as well.
If you are a native speaker, maybe go into technical writing? Or, if you have the eye for it, design?
I switched to be a hiking guide for a while. Came back to coding better than ever!
let's talk! I'm in the same spot
First, have a million dollars...
Doesn’t just about everyone in tech? (I’m not in tech anymore since 2003 so just watch from sidelines)
I’ve been in tech for the past decade and I sure as shit don’t have a million dollars. I’m just about getting to a point where I can buy my first house and not be house poor. To get that money you need to be in FAANG or other places that give you a lot of stocks that appreciate a ton.
Not everybody in tech, not even those working in Silicon Valley, make $200K+ per year and have six figures of RSUs. Even in Silicon Valley there are plenty of tech employers paying low six-figure or even five-figure salaries without RSUs. There’s a reason so many people do the Leetcode grind. I am personally far away from $1 million in assets.
Not the ones who moved to a high-COL area for the non FAANG jobs
Wow so many downvotes! I wasn’t being sarcastic, I just always was wistful I didn’t stay in tech and make more money, since in our current location/jobs, my wife is stuck in a grinding job because I didn’t level up my salary.
I wish (:
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I am in my early 40s and I have some savings. I would be really interested in the experience of people who have transitioned out of tech jobs (programming, management, whatever), what they have transitioned to, and how they've done it.