Brazil Is on the Brink(twitter.com)
twitter.com
Brazil Is on the Brink
https://twitter.com/shellenberger/status/1776776372351836642
42 comments
This beligerance towards the supreme court and in particukar MR. Moraes is old news. For the most part, it comes from the radical right. Currently they are antsy because the supreme court is working towards prosecuting the people behind the coup attempt after Bolsonaro lost the election. It's expected that by the end of this year, Bolsonaro himself might be finally held accountable for his crimes.
What do you do when a country’s Supreme Court justices are criminals?
Good question... People tried the military, the so called "moderator power". The military just arrested them instead. Then the supreme court's police started knocking on the doors of the military men. Welp.
What are their crimes?!
Corruption [1,2], illegal investigations [3] and unconstitutional censorship [4].
[1]https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2017/02/06/politica/1486411... [2]https://oantagonista.com.br/analise/toffoli-no-times-a-orgia... [3]https://www.gazetadopovo.com.br/instituto-politeia/inquerito... [4]https://www.senado.gov.br/Relatorios_SGM/CCS/Legisla%C3%A7%C... (see paragraph 2)
[1]https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2017/02/06/politica/1486411... [2]https://oantagonista.com.br/analise/toffoli-no-times-a-orgia... [3]https://www.gazetadopovo.com.br/instituto-politeia/inquerito... [4]https://www.senado.gov.br/Relatorios_SGM/CCS/Legisla%C3%A7%C... (see paragraph 2)
[1,2] If a lawyer is defending a criminal does that mean he's aiding them or somehow part of their criminal organization? It seems you don't understand how law works. The guy has been a high profile lawyer for decades before he became SJ minister. You want him to be poor?!
[3] Just allegations with no substantiality.
[4] He has an injunction that allows him to "censure" people and media in regards to the 2022 election. It was approved by the whole SJ court.
[3] Just allegations with no substantiality.
[4] He has an injunction that allows him to "censure" people and media in regards to the 2022 election. It was approved by the whole SJ court.
No one cares what their little "injunction" says. "Censure" is unconstitutional. That's all that should matter. The fact this is allowed to stand is proof that the supreme court is above the constitution, above brazilian law. A state of exception.
> Just allegations with no substantiality.
The article I’ve linked lists are least five reasons his actions are illegal, with the respective citations explaining why they are illegal. Just because you chose to ignore that, doesn’t make it unsubstantiated.
> He has an injunction that allows him to "censure" people and media
At least you admit Brazil is under a censorship regime. Dictatorships are always backed by the law.
By the way, any injunction that contradicts the constitution is by definition illegal.
The article I’ve linked lists are least five reasons his actions are illegal, with the respective citations explaining why they are illegal. Just because you chose to ignore that, doesn’t make it unsubstantiated.
> He has an injunction that allows him to "censure" people and media
At least you admit Brazil is under a censorship regime. Dictatorships are always backed by the law.
By the way, any injunction that contradicts the constitution is by definition illegal.
Unless you want to have a childish view of reality you have to agree that if it's done under the law there's not much you can do. Our history is filled with such cases. From all sides of the political spectrum. The proclamation of the republic, the Getulio dictatorship, the military dictatorship, Dilma's impeachment, etc...
So should we just accept that the country is now a dictatorship and move on?
ufo(1)
Took a brief scroll through this guys posting history, comes across as very partisan - I'm gonna guess Brazil is not in fact on the brink
Just because it isn't totalitarian doesn't mean it isn't authoritarian. There is no rule of law, if the STF decides to go for someone they will be the accuser, investigator, judge and even the legislator. That person will be fucked regardless of what the law says.
That's because they block accounts on demand, and I bet the Brazilian Supreme Court has never heard about HN before.
Here's another link, from a source that's less personally invested in the ongoing controversy: https://www.reuters.com/technology/musk-challenges-brazils-o...
I'm all for free speech. But Brazil is not the US. Brazil is a sovereign nation. We have our own laws and our people must trace its own path.
The old government and its pawns tried a violent coup and failed. Now they must pay for the crimes they committed. There's not much more than that.
The old government and its pawns tried a violent coup and failed. Now they must pay for the crimes they committed. There's not much more than that.
There has never been any violent coup attempt in Brazil. Stop lying. Why do you defend blatant censorship?
Musk said: "But principles matter more than profit.”
What an absolute joke of a person. Says whatever fits him best at any given moment, while pretending to be a champion of free speech.
What an absolute joke of a person. Says whatever fits him best at any given moment, while pretending to be a champion of free speech.
Yep, the principles didn't seem to come before profit when it came to Turkey and India trying to censor lol
Turkey and India have more aligned interests. This is just a foreigner doing political agitation for a more business friendly regime under a pretext of "freedom of speech".
I'm not familiar with politics in Brazil but aren't the last guy that run the country some called him Brazil's Trump? From what I'm hear that guy is worst than the current guy which is from my perspective seems moderate. Any Brazilian care to clarify objectively?
Yes. Bolsonaro. The Trump from the Tropics as they call him.
The guy planned a violent coup and failed. He couldn't get the all military branches to back him, just one. There's plenty of evidence and a long list of crimes.
He knows he's going to jail and with him the dreams of the extreme right.
To me all of this sounds like the dying scream of a cornered beast.
The guy planned a violent coup and failed. He couldn't get the all military branches to back him, just one. There's plenty of evidence and a long list of crimes.
He knows he's going to jail and with him the dreams of the extreme right.
To me all of this sounds like the dying scream of a cornered beast.
There not a single true statement in your comment. Why are you doing this?
https://noticias.uol.com.br/colunas/leonardo-sakamoto/2023/1...
https://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/geral/noticia/2023-01/manif...
https://www.estadao.com.br/politica/blog-do-fausto-macedo/de...
https://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/geral/noticia/2023-01/manif...
https://www.estadao.com.br/politica/blog-do-fausto-macedo/de...
Quoting far-left bootlicker bloggers and state media will not do it man.
I'm not quoting anyone. You can independently check all facts on the links I provided. They're not opinion pieces. They're just facts. There was an attempt to bomb an airport to create chaos. There were people blocking roads and camping on military bases asking for a coup. There was an invasion to the congress and to the SJ building by people asking for a military coup. There are confessions from military generals that Bolsonaro approached them to back his coup attempt. These are all facts available in plain sight for anyone to see.
> There was an attempt to bomb an airport to create chaos.
Lie.
> There were people blocking roads and camping on military bases asking for a coup.
Is camping and asking for a thing a crime? What is the crime?
> There was an invasion to the congress and to the SJ building by people asking for a military coup.
Vandalism is not the same as a coup attempt.
> There are confessions from military generals that Bolsonaro approached them to back his coup attempt.
Lie. He approached them about declaring emergency state. This is a constitutional measure. Dilma did the same thing, by the way.
Lie.
> There were people blocking roads and camping on military bases asking for a coup.
Is camping and asking for a thing a crime? What is the crime?
> There was an invasion to the congress and to the SJ building by people asking for a military coup.
Vandalism is not the same as a coup attempt.
> There are confessions from military generals that Bolsonaro approached them to back his coup attempt.
Lie. He approached them about declaring emergency state. This is a constitutional measure. Dilma did the same thing, by the way.
>> There was an attempt to bomb an airport to create chaos.
>Lie.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/bolsonaros-call-arms-...
>>> There was an invasion to the congress and to the SJ building by people asking for a military coup.
> Vandalism is not the same as a coup attempt.
Even the jailed people in the coup attempt confessed that their intent there was trying to prevent the elected president to govern, several of them were very vocal supporting a military dictatorship.
>>> There are confessions from military generals that Bolsonaro approached them to back his coup attempt.
> Lie. He approached them about declaring emergency state. This is a constitutional measure. Dilma did the same thing, by the way.
You are the one lying. Some people involved, like Tenent Mauro Cid and the army commander Marco Antônio Freire Gomes, delated Bolsonaro and confirmed the coup attempt.
>Lie.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/bolsonaros-call-arms-...
>>> There was an invasion to the congress and to the SJ building by people asking for a military coup.
> Vandalism is not the same as a coup attempt.
Even the jailed people in the coup attempt confessed that their intent there was trying to prevent the elected president to govern, several of them were very vocal supporting a military dictatorship.
>>> There are confessions from military generals that Bolsonaro approached them to back his coup attempt.
> Lie. He approached them about declaring emergency state. This is a constitutional measure. Dilma did the same thing, by the way.
You are the one lying. Some people involved, like Tenent Mauro Cid and the army commander Marco Antônio Freire Gomes, delated Bolsonaro and confirmed the coup attempt.
> https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/bolsonaros-call-arms-...
What does this have to do with anything the former president did?
> Even the jailed people in the coup attempt confessed that their intent there was trying to prevent the elected president to govern
Really? How? With Brazilian flags and bibles?
> several of them were very vocal supporting a military dictatorship.
Vocal support of something does not make one guilty of a coup. There are many vocal supporters of a communist dictatorship in Brazil. Should they go to jail?
> Tenent Mauro Cid and the army commander Marco Antônio Freire Gomes, delated Bolsonaro and confirmed the coup attempt.
Didn't the supreme court recently say plea bargains were an instrument of torture in the 21st century? ;)
Mauro Cid also said in leaked conversations that he was forced talk about things he didn't know about and that the Supreme Court already has a sentence ready, before the end of the investigations. Multiple justices have given interviews about their conclusions before the judgement. Who is going to investigate this?
This whole thing is farce sustained by corrupt courts, corrupt media and bought out rubber stamp media.
What does this have to do with anything the former president did?
> Even the jailed people in the coup attempt confessed that their intent there was trying to prevent the elected president to govern
Really? How? With Brazilian flags and bibles?
> several of them were very vocal supporting a military dictatorship.
Vocal support of something does not make one guilty of a coup. There are many vocal supporters of a communist dictatorship in Brazil. Should they go to jail?
> Tenent Mauro Cid and the army commander Marco Antônio Freire Gomes, delated Bolsonaro and confirmed the coup attempt.
Didn't the supreme court recently say plea bargains were an instrument of torture in the 21st century? ;)
Mauro Cid also said in leaked conversations that he was forced talk about things he didn't know about and that the Supreme Court already has a sentence ready, before the end of the investigations. Multiple justices have given interviews about their conclusions before the judgement. Who is going to investigate this?
This whole thing is farce sustained by corrupt courts, corrupt media and bought out rubber stamp media.
> Is camping and asking for a thing a crime? What is the crime?
Article 286 - Inciting, publicly, the commission of a crime: Penalty - imprisonment, from three to six months, or a fine. Sole Paragraph. The same penalty applies to anyone who publicly incites animosity between the Armed Forces or between them and the constitutional powers, civil institutions, or society. (Included by Law No. 14,197, of 2021)
Article 286 - Inciting, publicly, the commission of a crime: Penalty - imprisonment, from three to six months, or a fine. Sole Paragraph. The same penalty applies to anyone who publicly incites animosity between the Armed Forces or between them and the constitutional powers, civil institutions, or society. (Included by Law No. 14,197, of 2021)
I don't think HN is the right place to have this discussion. So, have a good night.
The current president is quite left wing, at least by US standards. He was also president before. Then was charged with corruption. Then the chargers were annulled. I don't think you are going to get particularly unbiased answers about him from a predominately US website.
The last guy certainly is brazilian trump. I wouldn't call him worse than this literal world touring champagne socialist though. Brazilian trump said a lot of profoundly stupid things but I think he did alright managing the economy despite the pandemic and russian war. Current guy is spending money like there's no tomorrow and basically undid any and all progress last guy made out of spite.
[deleted]
The current guy is not a moderate, he is the biggest criminal in the country’s history.
He's lying. Lula is corrupt? Of course he is. Just as corrupt as anyone that came before and after him. But he's far from being the biggest criminal. He's the first president in BR history to really narrow the gap of social inequality.
That's why the extreme right hates him and persecuted him until he was illegally jailed. He was so popular that they were afraid that he would be able to install a communist government in Brazil.
But Lula is just a populist. He's center left and friends with all big bankers. He's far from a communist. But he's no angel.
That's why the extreme right hates him and persecuted him until he was illegally jailed. He was so popular that they were afraid that he would be able to install a communist government in Brazil.
But Lula is just a populist. He's center left and friends with all big bankers. He's far from a communist. But he's no angel.
Reporting on this while in Brazil sounds terrifying.