Walls are starting to close in for Tesla, let's have a closer look(threadreaderapp.com)
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Walls are starting to close in for Tesla, let's have a closer look
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1787501413137858617.html
57 comments
I don't see Tim Cook taking that job given he had a long personal connection to Steve Jobs. He would probably spend the rest of his career working at Apple.
Also Tim Cook has the ability to say no and said no he did: he canned the Apple car project because he understood the risks and the costs and decided its not worth it.
If Cook were running Tesla he would likely have made the decision that one of the early activist investors tried to push: license the battery and motor tech to other companies and don't get into car building. It took someone with a nearly religious conviction like Musk to get you that Model 3 that you love so much. Where a rational person says no that kind of a person keeps going, to hell with the consequences.
Also Tim Cook has the ability to say no and said no he did: he canned the Apple car project because he understood the risks and the costs and decided its not worth it.
If Cook were running Tesla he would likely have made the decision that one of the early activist investors tried to push: license the battery and motor tech to other companies and don't get into car building. It took someone with a nearly religious conviction like Musk to get you that Model 3 that you love so much. Where a rational person says no that kind of a person keeps going, to hell with the consequences.
If Musk wasn't CEO of Tesla, it would turn into Rivian.
Which would be great.
Why the downvotes? Vivian, looks like it's run by adults.
> 29) Not only has Tesla not made any regulatory actions to start robotaxis, but the FSD software continues to pull outright dangerous moves that show it is nowhere near ready and perhaps never will due to hardware limitations.
Also if Tesla really was ready to unveil a major robotaxi service, wouldn’t there have been a lot of new hiring, e.g. humans for remote monitoring and servicing, like how Waymo has operators ready to take over when their taxis go awry?
Also if Tesla really was ready to unveil a major robotaxi service, wouldn’t there have been a lot of new hiring, e.g. humans for remote monitoring and servicing, like how Waymo has operators ready to take over when their taxis go awry?
I don't blame Elon as much as I blame the responsible adults around him. No one appears to be setting any limits. My armchair psychoanalysts observation is that his son transistioning to a woman and his wife Grimes leaving him to date Chelsea Manning (transwoman) seemed to break him. But never mind that, the details of what breaks people don't matter. People have crisis.
I assumed we've made progress since the days of Howard Hughes' madness. I'm surprised corporate boards and wise advisors would be able to get him some help and require it actually, since he has so many responibilities but has been blowing it with drug use and erratic behavior. Is he all alone in the world or is it that he won't listen to anyway while he self-destructs?
I assumed we've made progress since the days of Howard Hughes' madness. I'm surprised corporate boards and wise advisors would be able to get him some help and require it actually, since he has so many responibilities but has been blowing it with drug use and erratic behavior. Is he all alone in the world or is it that he won't listen to anyway while he self-destructs?
I did not know about grimes and manning. Truth is stranger than fiction!
It's only my business because he lashed out at the trans activists on Twitter who were pretty powerful at shaping the conversation at the time. I believe he wanted to destroy their platfrom and that's why he said he'd buy it, then changed his mind and then was made to buy it. I miss the old Twitter but it is nice to be able to tweet knowing a twitter mob of trans allies won't try to character assasinate me for something I unwittingly said. So thanks Elon?
Honestly, Musk's recent moves have me thinking less of "eccentric billionaire who I find annoying AF" to "this man is becoming completely unhinged".
The firing of all of the Supercharger team, in what essentially sounded like a fit of rage/spite, is so far outside the norm of what a rational person would do, even if they did think Tesla needed to make a lot of cuts. More importantly, basically all of the current scary state of Tesla can easily be laid at Musk's feet. All EV companies are struggling with reduced demand, but these decisions by Musk were obvious own goals:
1. Most importantly, Musk's incessant bad-mouthing of his biggest customers. Who does he think buys EVs more than anyone else? It's generally the "left coast chardonnay-sipping elite" that he craps on at every turn.
2. It was Musk's decision to handicap self-driving by demanding 100% reliance on cameras only.
3. Cybertruck is going to be/continue to be a disaster for Tesla. The ultimate "boy genius" plaything, Tesla could have easily doubled down on making an affordable truck or SUV but instead went for stainless steel-clad Aztec.
4. The supercharger network was Tesla's crown jewel. I've owned a couple other EVs and the other networks are (at least as of now) dismal compared to the supercharger network. And Musk just canned everyone.
The firing of all of the Supercharger team, in what essentially sounded like a fit of rage/spite, is so far outside the norm of what a rational person would do, even if they did think Tesla needed to make a lot of cuts. More importantly, basically all of the current scary state of Tesla can easily be laid at Musk's feet. All EV companies are struggling with reduced demand, but these decisions by Musk were obvious own goals:
1. Most importantly, Musk's incessant bad-mouthing of his biggest customers. Who does he think buys EVs more than anyone else? It's generally the "left coast chardonnay-sipping elite" that he craps on at every turn.
2. It was Musk's decision to handicap self-driving by demanding 100% reliance on cameras only.
3. Cybertruck is going to be/continue to be a disaster for Tesla. The ultimate "boy genius" plaything, Tesla could have easily doubled down on making an affordable truck or SUV but instead went for stainless steel-clad Aztec.
4. The supercharger network was Tesla's crown jewel. I've owned a couple other EVs and the other networks are (at least as of now) dismal compared to the supercharger network. And Musk just canned everyone.
Huh, it’s almost like having a CEO who doesn’t give two shits about public perception, proper behavior, truth, consideration, or loyalty is starting to catch up to them.
It's not unreasonable to think that those things just don't matter, because for the lifetime of Tesla up until now they kind of didn't. That change is what's just as interesting to me.
It is only the first Quality you mention that seems to matter (managing public perception).
The rest of those qualities seem to be fairly widespread.
The rest of those qualities seem to be fairly widespread.
Yep. For a long time I assumed my next car would be a Tesla. Seeing how he's destroying Twitter, gutting teams at Tesla, sharing his paranoid delusions, his crazy politics and his beliefs in conspiracy theories - I just can't see supporting him by buying a Tesla. The minute the board removes him, I would gladly reconsider.
anecdotal, but me too, and several other people I know
A very part-time CEO, no less.
> 35) When you dig deeper there's a range of other peculiarities at Tesla. Unlike every other S&P/OEM company, Tesla uses its own ERP system (vs Microsoft, SAP, Oracle etc) called WARP - which when you consider the accounting / governance issues is worrying erpresearch.com/knowledge/whic…
Out of all the things you could pick on, this actually makes Tesla look good.
The "standard" ERP systems are steaming dogshit. They are terrible. They make everybody miserable. And they don't do a damn thing to prevent accounting fraud.
Every company I have worked for who had their own ERP system thought it was terrible ... and then SAP/Oracle came in and everybody realized that things somehow got so much worse.
Out of all the things you could pick on, this actually makes Tesla look good.
The "standard" ERP systems are steaming dogshit. They are terrible. They make everybody miserable. And they don't do a damn thing to prevent accounting fraud.
Every company I have worked for who had their own ERP system thought it was terrible ... and then SAP/Oracle came in and everybody realized that things somehow got so much worse.
Item 35 though
To somewhat counter my other comment about Musk, I've seen this statistic a lot but it feels like total bullshit to me:
> There's only so far price cuts will go. Tesla has one of the oldest lineup among automakers - with the average age of its models at 9 years (ex-Cybertruck) - Where is the innovation to spur more demand?
Tesla famously doesn't release new models by "model years" but just updates them continuously. Putting the Model S release date at June 2011 (despite that vehicle being a very different car from today's Model S), and saying that is somehow comparable to the age of other carmakers' model fleets is totally disingenuous IMO.
> There's only so far price cuts will go. Tesla has one of the oldest lineup among automakers - with the average age of its models at 9 years (ex-Cybertruck) - Where is the innovation to spur more demand?
Tesla famously doesn't release new models by "model years" but just updates them continuously. Putting the Model S release date at June 2011 (despite that vehicle being a very different car from today's Model S), and saying that is somehow comparable to the age of other carmakers' model fleets is totally disingenuous IMO.
Teslas on the road today all look like they have a stale design compared to new offerings from other manufacturers. I think it’s a fair point even if they are continuously updating the internals.
It's fine to argue you think they have stale design (an opinion), but that's very different from saying their average model is 9 years old, and comparing that to other carmaker's average model age.
And it's obviously not just internals. Compare a 2011 Tesla (e.g. https://www.motortrend.com/news/2011-tesla-model-s-revealed-...) to a 2024 Tesla (https://www.topspeed.com/2024-tesla-model-s-overview/). Again, I think it's fine to say you think the 2024 version looks stale, but the difference between the 2011 and 2024 versions in appearance alone is at least as different as some "new models" I've seen from other car manufacturers.
And it's obviously not just internals. Compare a 2011 Tesla (e.g. https://www.motortrend.com/news/2011-tesla-model-s-revealed-...) to a 2024 Tesla (https://www.topspeed.com/2024-tesla-model-s-overview/). Again, I think it's fine to say you think the 2024 version looks stale, but the difference between the 2011 and 2024 versions in appearance alone is at least as different as some "new models" I've seen from other car manufacturers.
The Porsche 911 design goes back to the 1960s.
Do you really need to change the body design if you can keep upgrading the internals?
Do you really need to change the body design if you can keep upgrading the internals?
Yes, not all customers buy into the original [external] design.
Personally I think it's a low-rent imitation of Mazda, so a refresh would have been nice.
For all the "but the insides have been upgraded/revamped!!" messaging, it's just confirming that they're too cheap to improve, or just change, the outside.
Personally I think it's a low-rent imitation of Mazda, so a refresh would have been nice.
For all the "but the insides have been upgraded/revamped!!" messaging, it's just confirming that they're too cheap to improve, or just change, the outside.
The chief designer did come from Mazda...
Also they did just update the Model 3 (looks great!) this year so they are moving in the right direction. Did you see this refreshed look on the Model 3?
Also they did just update the Model 3 (looks great!) this year so they are moving in the right direction. Did you see this refreshed look on the Model 3?
Porsche has changed the 911 body, quite radically in fact, if you side-by-side anything 1980s or before with 2012 or later.
But what Porsche does very well is introduce new platforms every few years. It's still a 911 but a new generation, that generates excitement and new sales. Then a few years into each cycle, it releases various sub-specialties and performance variants -- the RSes, GTs, Turbos, etc. Yes this often means at the very end of a platform's life sales drop (in anticipation of the next version) but overall its clear that Porsche has been extremely successful with this release model, which I think the other German carmakers emulate, like BMWs 3-series.
But what Porsche does very well is introduce new platforms every few years. It's still a 911 but a new generation, that generates excitement and new sales. Then a few years into each cycle, it releases various sub-specialties and performance variants -- the RSes, GTs, Turbos, etc. Yes this often means at the very end of a platform's life sales drop (in anticipation of the next version) but overall its clear that Porsche has been extremely successful with this release model, which I think the other German carmakers emulate, like BMWs 3-series.
It's a non-zero factor. Designs for cars, furniture, shoes, hairstyles, all evolve.
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It also is kind of laughable because what matters is how it relates to the competition. Outside of china, a lot of the competition seems to be in trouble or quitting the full EV market.
Hyundai offers better specs at a cheaper price.
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I own a Model 3, and I honestly think it is the best car I have ever owned.
Despite that, I know people who have ruled out owning a Tesla because they believe the brand mirrors Elon Musk's public persona. They flat-out reject any Tesla product because the brand's visible face is someone they believe doesn't represent their values.
I'm unsure he understood the implications of becoming such a polarizing figure. It was totally unnecessary, yet that was his choice.
Despite that, I know people who have ruled out owning a Tesla because they believe the brand mirrors Elon Musk's public persona. They flat-out reject any Tesla product because the brand's visible face is someone they believe doesn't represent their values.
I'm unsure he understood the implications of becoming such a polarizing figure. It was totally unnecessary, yet that was his choice.
Or car buyers just want turn signal stalks or auto windshield wipers that work.
I don't doubt that a portion of potential buyers are turned off by Musk's politics and refuse to buy his cars. But a much, much larger group (in my opinion) are people who like gas-powered cars and have zero interest in EVs, no matter how large the subsidies are, how advanced the tech is, or how many chargers are out there. Ignoring this group, and focusing on those caught up with Musk's politics, is missing the big picture, I believe.
Counterpoint: It was 100% necessary. Telling the truth always is.
Which truth are you referring to?
So the "truth" would be his primary base of personal wealth is utterly derived from selling cars to...checking notes...the worst people in the country who deserve to be bullied and ridiculed? And that he has no choice but to educate the world about this truth? Even if it means destroying his personal reputation and businesses?
Or - and this is amply documented now - perhaps the "truth" is he's doing way too many drugs (WSJ), making horrible decisions (Supercharger), and per the deeply persuasive data in the linked thread, is killing the company?
Like, huh? What?
Or - and this is amply documented now - perhaps the "truth" is he's doing way too many drugs (WSJ), making horrible decisions (Supercharger), and per the deeply persuasive data in the linked thread, is killing the company?
Like, huh? What?
Elon Musk is not famous for honesty.
"Republicans buy sneakers, too"
It does not take much business acumen that taking a political stance is going to anger someone. Best keep your mouth shut unless you are prepared for the consequences.
I doubt Elon’s personal views are much different from any other billionaire CEO. Yet the majority of them are not in the spotlight and drawing attention to themselves.
It does not take much business acumen that taking a political stance is going to anger someone. Best keep your mouth shut unless you are prepared for the consequences.
I doubt Elon’s personal views are much different from any other billionaire CEO. Yet the majority of them are not in the spotlight and drawing attention to themselves.
I don't think it was a conscious or deliberate choice.
Hubris made him think he was the real Tony Stark, genius playboy philanthropist bullshit, but as talented as he is in some areas, his flaws are clearly visible.
But at the end of the day, I think that if Tesla was making valuable cars, it would not matter that much. The thing is that those cars also have many flaws, and a lot of undelivered promises around self-driving...
Hubris made him think he was the real Tony Stark, genius playboy philanthropist bullshit, but as talented as he is in some areas, his flaws are clearly visible.
But at the end of the day, I think that if Tesla was making valuable cars, it would not matter that much. The thing is that those cars also have many flaws, and a lot of undelivered promises around self-driving...
> Hubris made him think he was the real Tony Stark
Maybe it was the time Tony Stark praised his ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wC4rLguuYI
Maybe it was the time Tony Stark praised his ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wC4rLguuYI
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Brilliant assembly.
leesec(4)
Offer Tim Cook double what he is making at Apple (an obscene amount of money, but a bargain compared to Musk).
Tesla needs someone like Cook. Someone who knows supply chain management and customer service. Someone who is sane and won't alienate potential customers.
[Disclaimer: I own a Model 3. Fantastic car]