Google Chrome's plan to limit ad blocking extensions kicks off next week(arstechnica.com)
arstechnica.com
Google Chrome's plan to limit ad blocking extensions kicks off next week
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/google-starts-deprecating-older-more-capable-chrome-extensions-next-week/
62 comments
Hopefully this means people return to FireFox, which I'm surprised many developers abandoned.
I certainly will switch to Firefox (which I already use on my phone) if ad blocking stops working in Chrome. I'm really only on Chrome out of inertia - the developer tools in Firefox is just different enough that I haven't put in enough time to learn my way around it.
The dev tools in Firefox are actually nicer in some cases..
<Right-click Q> -> Boom, console open inspecting the element under the cusrsor.
Chrome requires more clicks.
<Right-click Q> -> Boom, console open inspecting the element under the cusrsor.
Chrome requires more clicks.
Just hit F12. Even faster, and it'll remember if you were in the console or the inspector the last time you closed it on that page. I use it quite a bit to just delete elements for pages I'm only going to visit once or twice, but don't want to spend time messing with my adblocker on.
When the news broke again of this change, I made yet another attempt to return to Firefox. Fortunately, I never returned. They’ve improved quite a bit in terms of resource usage and functionality, and I’m not looking back.
So you returned to Firefox and stayed? I.e. did not return back to Chrome?
Sorry, that was poorly worded. I have been using Firefox happily ever since.
this was even funnier the first time i read it and understood it as mozilla developers, as a joke on resource allocation.
Unfortunately I seriously doubt it, given how many advocate for Google's efforts to make Web into ChromeOS, buy Chromebooks, and ship desktop applications wrapped in Electron.
Regarding links in the article, it’s definitely lacking (as mentioned links like this: https://blog.chromium.org/2024/05/manifest-v2-phase-out-begi...) but also why don’t articles like this offer a consistent set of alternate browsers like Firefox, Safari & all the Chromium derivatives (Brave, DuckDuckGo & Arc) that include ad blockers? I get that there’s a difference between those & the free choice to pick your ad blocker; but eventually everyone grows tired of the cat n mouse game. Why not help promote switching?
Almost all of these, for example, have desktop variants:
https://developer.apple.com/support/browser-choice-screen/
Almost all of these, for example, have desktop variants:
https://developer.apple.com/support/browser-choice-screen/
I use Vivaldi and love it. I hope their built-in ad-blocking continues to work even if the uBlock Origin extension does not.
I'd go and download the MV2 version of the extension today. Vivaldi lets you load extensions directly from .crx files (unlike Chrome, which refuses to run extensions that were not published on the Chrome store), and MV2 extensions will probably keep working in Chromium for at least a year since Google has said they will allow some special enterprise extensions to keep using MV2 for a while.
On Mac:
defaults write com.google.Chrome ExtensionManifestV2Availability -integer 2
While that's useful, it also seems a bit like "For the next month, relatives will be visiting so my spouse won't be able to beat me."
When there's no good reason to believe the other party will actually change their ultimate goals, it's better to cut your losses and switch sooner.
When there's no good reason to believe the other party will actually change their ultimate goals, it's better to cut your losses and switch sooner.
I’ve gotta imagine that you could’ve found an analogy that didn’t compare domestic abuse with some nerd not being able to use their favourite browser extension.
The analogy is that Google is abusing the nerd and he is making up excuses to cope, not that the nerd can't use their favorite browser extension.
I wouldn't even say that it is obvious Spyware-aaS is a lesser problem in society than domestic abuse (even though the individual victim is far worse off, of course), due to ruined social cohesion etc.
I wouldn't even say that it is obvious Spyware-aaS is a lesser problem in society than domestic abuse (even though the individual victim is far worse off, of course), due to ruined social cohesion etc.
So which analogy (involving an habit-fraught chronic abusive relationship) would you use, if I told you you couldn't spend the next 10+ minutes carefully triangulating every detail for your maximum safety from negative online comments?
If it were that easy, I think you'd have shared it immediately.
If it were that easy, I think you'd have shared it immediately.
It gives you a year of runway to move to another browser
If you need a year of runway, you're not really planning to move. :p
Doesnt really matter because Google will be deleting V2 extensions from the Store.
I use Firefox and have never understood why so many people use a browser made by a for profit company
I think this comment misses just how big of a leap chrome was over the competition for at least 5 years. The speed and stability improvements were light-years ahead. It was finally able to break the IE6 stranglehold and quickly overtook Firefox's adoption rate.
After that it's just inertia, it's the head of the pack because it's the head of the pack and people already use it.
To convince people to change generally you can't just offer the same or similar performance and features, it has to be a worthwhile reward for the user to bother. This change which just might be crippling enough for adblockers may be enough to get people to switch.
After that it's just inertia, it's the head of the pack because it's the head of the pack and people already use it.
To convince people to change generally you can't just offer the same or similar performance and features, it has to be a worthwhile reward for the user to bother. This change which just might be crippling enough for adblockers may be enough to get people to switch.
Not everyone has the same goals, priorities, and values as you.
Be nice if there was a way to embed FireFox. It's the only reason I will still use Chromium (Cef) and Edge (WebView2) once V2 is no longer supported.
Marketing is a helluva drug.
Firefox is made by a for profit company.
The Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit organization.
The vast majority of people working on Firefox are employees of the Mozilla Corporation which is a for profit subsidiary of the Foundation.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/organizations...
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/organizations...
the foundation owns the corporation and can dissolve it if it turns evil. There's no similar public-good outfit that can dissolve Google.
That has not bearing upon whether the Mozilla Corporation is for profit or not. It is for profit and the original statement was regarding a lack of understanding why someone would use a browser made by a for profit company. Firefox is factually made by a for profit company. One whose major source of income is the nefarious Google.
I'm also afraid how this usually turns out is the for-profit part takes over the non-profit part. See OpenAI or just about any major national non-profit in the US.
I'm also afraid how this usually turns out is the for-profit part takes over the non-profit part. See OpenAI or just about any major national non-profit in the US.
[deleted]
No, this effectively means that the corporation can do evil and will always point to its owner being non-profit as a justification for doing more evil. The corpo gets a "kind face" behind which it can do dirty deeds.
Inclusion of Pocket in Firefox is a representative example - included despite overwhelming community objections for more profit!
Inclusion of Pocket in Firefox is a representative example - included despite overwhelming community objections for more profit!
What are folks seeing for Firefox market share? Most online sources say FF is around 3%. My tech blog and tech projects see FF at 13%, which highlights that different user groups have differing browser preferences. Degrading ad blockers seems like something that should drive people to FF.
https://indieweb.social/@robalex/112472853515037460
https://indieweb.social/@robalex/112472853515037460
It's no surprise that mainstream uses chrome and more tech focused use firefox. That shouldn't be a revelation.
Back to Firefox!
I've been a Firefox user forever (I used Chrome for a while, but switched back to Firefox many years ago), and I am still continually baffled that anyone "in the know" uses Chrome. But they do. And I doubt this change will cause any kind of Chrome exodus, if nothing else Google has done up to this point has triggered that.
I started using Chrome in 2011. Went back to Firefox in 2014 once Chrome became a massive RAM glutton. I keep telling others to move to Firefox, but they won't because "Everyone develops for Chrome so I just test in Chrome," or "But I don't feel like moving all my passwords and bookmarks." This, despite me proving time and again how much better Firefox has been for a decade now.
Firefox tagged along after Safari put out an insulting piece trumpeting how much better they were for not implementing a bunch of web APIs. Lacking good links so far but here's this, https://usefulangle.com/web-updates/post/80/firefox-decines-...
It really struck a bad chord for me. Rather than update your permissions model or consider how best to implement, being a browser that simply won't do WebUSB or WebMIDI or half the sensor APIs is an awful thing to me. I know a lot of people don't feel like those add value to them personally, but as someone who likes and believes in the web, the hard-line we're-against-it bandwagon-joining stance was disgusting to see, from a company I had until then trusted & thought was able to navigate complex situations.
Firefox has most of these implemented now. Which is great. As a Linux user, I used to never be able to update most of my consumer devices. But because of WebUSB, a good number now have web updaters, and I also am not scared these companies are installing a bunch of spyware/adware just to update the appliance firmware.
It really struck a bad chord for me. Rather than update your permissions model or consider how best to implement, being a browser that simply won't do WebUSB or WebMIDI or half the sensor APIs is an awful thing to me. I know a lot of people don't feel like those add value to them personally, but as someone who likes and believes in the web, the hard-line we're-against-it bandwagon-joining stance was disgusting to see, from a company I had until then trusted & thought was able to navigate complex situations.
Firefox has most of these implemented now. Which is great. As a Linux user, I used to never be able to update most of my consumer devices. But because of WebUSB, a good number now have web updaters, and I also am not scared these companies are installing a bunch of spyware/adware just to update the appliance firmware.
WebUSB and WebBluetooth really are amazing, and are one of the few reasons I occasionally fire up Chrome.
I don't get the objection either: Unlike for e.g. notification access (which is frequently abused and which Firefox does implement!), I can't imagine websites demanding USB access in exchange for, I don't know – discount codes?
I don't get the objection either: Unlike for e.g. notification access (which is frequently abused and which Firefox does implement!), I can't imagine websites demanding USB access in exchange for, I don't know – discount codes?
I just installed uBlock Origin Lite and didn't see any difference between uBlock Origin on the sites I frequent. One thing I like about uBlock Lite is that it defaults to Basic mode which does not require the permission to read and modify data.
uBO Lite:
Filter lists update only when the extension updates (no fetching up to date lists from servers)
Many filters are dropped at conversion time due to MV3's limited filter syntax
No crafting your own filters (thus no element picker) No strict-blocked pages (worse privacy) No per-site switches No dynamic filtering No importing external lists
Source with links: https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1067als/comme...
Filter lists update only when the extension updates (no fetching up to date lists from servers)
Many filters are dropped at conversion time due to MV3's limited filter syntax
No crafting your own filters (thus no element picker) No strict-blocked pages (worse privacy) No per-site switches No dynamic filtering No importing external lists
Source with links: https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1067als/comme...
The war against dynamic code is so severe (no custom filters, no updates except via published & approved versions). I understand their are dangers, but as much as the ad blocking getting less powerful scares me, the fact that extensions can't do anything dynamic is insane cruel vicious & downright scum shit evil.
Protecting the users at all cost is not a viable way to operate; if web extensions are to actually create user agency, there must be a possibility of evil. I spit up on the dog shit trashfire Google hath created by outlawing all dynamic code. This is a dark despairing turning point, a place where the browser has truly abandoned a core advantage, under pathetic sad Fear Uncertainty and Doubt pretenses & I want this decision to burn forever.
It'll be interesting to see if any of Google's promises about Declarative Net Request filtering being faster prove true. If the new uBO isn't significantly faster, these people will be majorly Emperor with No Clothes-ing themselves.
Protecting the users at all cost is not a viable way to operate; if web extensions are to actually create user agency, there must be a possibility of evil. I spit up on the dog shit trashfire Google hath created by outlawing all dynamic code. This is a dark despairing turning point, a place where the browser has truly abandoned a core advantage, under pathetic sad Fear Uncertainty and Doubt pretenses & I want this decision to burn forever.
It'll be interesting to see if any of Google's promises about Declarative Net Request filtering being faster prove true. If the new uBO isn't significantly faster, these people will be majorly Emperor with No Clothes-ing themselves.
If you were a Google PM trying to drive ad revenue, wouldn’t it be strategically in your best interest to make it look like uBlock Origin Lite worked equally well until uBlock Origin standard was no longer available and only then start introducing anti-ad blocking mitigations that uBlock Origin Lite couldn’t manage due to MV3 constraints?
I'm also a fan.
On my own computer, I prefer Firefox and the full version, but work doesn't allow "all site access" extensions in Chrome, and I'm really thankful for uBO Lite there.
I could definitely see myself switch on Firefox too, once most extensions move to the v3 security model. A hybrid would probably be ideal: v2-like blocking behavior on an opt-in basis per site for where it's needed, with a better default security posture where it isn't.
(Actually I wish Firefox would backport the v3-like "allow site access only after first extension button click" model that Chrome has backported even for v2 extensions, but that's pretty far down on my wishlist.)
On my own computer, I prefer Firefox and the full version, but work doesn't allow "all site access" extensions in Chrome, and I'm really thankful for uBO Lite there.
I could definitely see myself switch on Firefox too, once most extensions move to the v3 security model. A hybrid would probably be ideal: v2-like blocking behavior on an opt-in basis per site for where it's needed, with a better default security posture where it isn't.
(Actually I wish Firefox would backport the v3-like "allow site access only after first extension button click" model that Chrome has backported even for v2 extensions, but that's pretty far down on my wishlist.)
Will brave continue to support manifest v2?
Also seems like we can maybe expect a ublock browser in the future.
Also seems like we can maybe expect a ublock browser in the future.
AFAIK Brave also has its built-in ad blocker, which btw. is good enough for me (you can add lists to it, it's compatible with the usual lists etc.) - so even if for some reason V2 support goes away on the Chromium codebase level, and Brave decides not to keep it in their fork, you still have a decent blocker.
I would invest in that
Reminder that the FBI recommends using ad blockers for security reasons.
This is Google being evil, and proving that they cannot be trusted with the browser.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34916239
This is Google being evil, and proving that they cannot be trusted with the browser.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34916239
Try chromite comes with Adblock plus and bromite legacy built in.Ffupdater at fdroid has it.
How's Microsoft Edge affected?
Microsoft is linking to Google’s pages regarding timelines, so very similar dates, probably.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/extensions-...
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/extensions-...
People open it for the second time. To download Firefox.
F*ck edge
What about chromium alternatives like Arc and Kiwi? Will they keep manifest V2?
if they are chromium based and google pulls the v2 out of chromium, then it would be up to the forks to maintain v2 being re-added and security updates being applied and maintained ny their teams
a better question is why does one _need_ chrome; or to use strictly one browser for that matter? bookmarks are literally a text list of urls (many alterneratives to sharing these between browsers/devices); history features (to my useage needs the history features have lacked since the browser was invented). shared sessions, like resuming a video between devices - can be done via logging into many sites. saved passwords? dont save passwords in the browser- - many alternatives exist.
try not to limit yourself in the tools which are available, there are many and they are not hard to learn
tried LibreWolf yet?
edit: some sentense restructering
a better question is why does one _need_ chrome; or to use strictly one browser for that matter? bookmarks are literally a text list of urls (many alterneratives to sharing these between browsers/devices); history features (to my useage needs the history features have lacked since the browser was invented). shared sessions, like resuming a video between devices - can be done via logging into many sites. saved passwords? dont save passwords in the browser- - many alternatives exist.
try not to limit yourself in the tools which are available, there are many and they are not hard to learn
tried LibreWolf yet?
edit: some sentense restructering
Chrome is ahead of the curve, driving innovation and making the internet a better place, again and again and again.
I hope this was sarcastic
When people realize how insufferable the internet is without an Adblocker they’ll have no choice but switch to Firefox.
While I can't recommend enough giving Firefox another try, uBlock Lite (the Manifest V3 version) is actually decent.
I'm not sure if that downside of Chrome will be enough to make many people switch – it's too slow a boil for many frogs to notice, I'm afraid.
I'm not sure if that downside of Chrome will be enough to make many people switch – it's too slow a boil for many frogs to notice, I'm afraid.
"Based on input from the extension community, we also increased the number of rulesets for declarativeNetRequest, allowing extensions to bundle up to 330,000 static rules and dynamically add a further 30,000."