Subway calls 'emergency' meeting with franchisees as sales plummet(nypost.com)
nypost.com
Subway calls 'emergency' meeting with franchisees as sales plummet
https://nypost.com/2024/08/14/business/subway-calls-emergency-meeting-with-franchisees-as-sales-plummet-sources/
96 comments
> Is this another leveraged buyout? When are they going to make that illegal?
Never. Doing a company buyout that is 'leveraged' just means it uses at least $1 in debt. Banning that is impractical and probably deeply harmful to the economy.
Furthermore, the 'losers' in an LBO that crashed are first the equity holders, who did the deal, and then maybe debtholders, who were well informed about the risks.
Never. Doing a company buyout that is 'leveraged' just means it uses at least $1 in debt. Banning that is impractical and probably deeply harmful to the economy.
Furthermore, the 'losers' in an LBO that crashed are first the equity holders, who did the deal, and then maybe debtholders, who were well informed about the risks.
I guess employees, customers, and the local community don’t count.
The effects may never be felt by employees, customers, and the local community - only the equity and debt holders.
If Company X is an LBO target, gets bought out, does poorly, goes bankrupt, and gets sold a for a reduced value it may continue to operate with little change in the day-to-day.
If Company X is an LBO target, gets bought out, does poorly, goes bankrupt, and gets sold a for a reduced value it may continue to operate with little change in the day-to-day.
This is a joke comment. Most LBOs result in eventual shuttering of the company. The LBO itself is a strip-mine of the assets and value.
How is Roark going to profit from killing Subway, the company they own? What can they strip mine that is more valuable than the largest fast food chain in the world?
It's possible they don't mean to kill the golden goose they just accidentally do it by making its cage too small and reducing the quality and quantity of its feed in order to squeeze out a few more bucks.
That's exactly what it is: https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/subway-comes-up-with-5...
Funny how these often make a profitable business unprofitable overnight, even the business itself is the same as before.
They are being out competed by other places like Jimmy John’s and Jersey Mikes , at the same time they have not focused on the quality of the food and the experience of having the bread be smaller in diameter, and the slices seem thinner and less tasty than others.
Everything appears to be done as cheaply as possible with no regard to what the customer wants.
Funny how all the store owners have been complaining but only now that the corporate office is suffering is there an “emergency“ .
Everything appears to be done as cheaply as possible with no regard to what the customer wants.
Funny how all the store owners have been complaining but only now that the corporate office is suffering is there an “emergency“ .
Prices everywhere are so high I think people are thinking “if I’m going to eat out might as well spend 10-20% more and go to the better place”. $5 foot long was a legit deal half the price of competitors but those days are long gone. There’s also the sticker shock of remembering the $5 foot long days and then seeing the price is more than double now. Other places didn’t tie their entire identity to a price so they get less pushback when raising prices.
This was me this past weekend. Wife was craving Subway for some reason. I didn’t object until I saw that a foot long was $12. I genuinely couldn’t believe it.
I got my food elsewhere.
I got my food elsewhere.
Their latest innovation is to put metal covers over the meat/cheese selection, so it's impossible for the customer to tell what kind of shape the food is in before they put it on your sandwich.
Superficially they were setting record sales numbers up through last year.
https://newsroom.subway.com/2023-02-02-Subway-Announces-Seco...
https://newsroom.subway.com/2023-02-02-Subway-Announces-Seco...
Perhaps the problem is that almost any other sandwich chain's food is much better than Subway's.
They also recently raised prices a ton and changed the menu.
[edit] to put some numbers on it: just the other day I saw one attached to a gas station where just about any foot long was $13+. Six-inchers? $10!!!
I just today happened to go to a fairly fancy sandwich place. Their sandwiches were $13-15, at least as much eating as a foot long from subway, and came with two sides. Like, it was enough food for two people, really, and good. I guarantee their ingredient costs are 3x Subway’s.
Their prices are insanely out of wack with reality. A $5 foot long may not be in the cards anymore, given actual inflation on their costs, but they can’t charge entire-meal-with-very-good sandwich prices for a much shittier sandwich all on its own, and not expect a drop in sales.
[edit] to put some numbers on it: just the other day I saw one attached to a gas station where just about any foot long was $13+. Six-inchers? $10!!!
I just today happened to go to a fairly fancy sandwich place. Their sandwiches were $13-15, at least as much eating as a foot long from subway, and came with two sides. Like, it was enough food for two people, really, and good. I guarantee their ingredient costs are 3x Subway’s.
Their prices are insanely out of wack with reality. A $5 foot long may not be in the cards anymore, given actual inflation on their costs, but they can’t charge entire-meal-with-very-good sandwich prices for a much shittier sandwich all on its own, and not expect a drop in sales.
> I saw one attached to a gas station where just about any foot long was $13+. Six-inchers? $10!!!
Yep. Basically nothing on the menu for under $13 for a 12-inch, and they've made it clear they're not interested in selling 6-inch sandwiches. I was thinking the other day that this is the danger of setting numerical targets. Obviously an MBA in the executive suite thinks it's important to maximize the per customer revenue per visit. Easiest way to do that is to run off every customer that doesn't hit that numerical target.
Yep. Basically nothing on the menu for under $13 for a 12-inch, and they've made it clear they're not interested in selling 6-inch sandwiches. I was thinking the other day that this is the danger of setting numerical targets. Obviously an MBA in the executive suite thinks it's important to maximize the per customer revenue per visit. Easiest way to do that is to run off every customer that doesn't hit that numerical target.
and screw over franchise owners resulting in many locations opting out of promos.
But yes, charging 12 bucks for something that was 5 bucks a few years ago is the reason people are not visiting. And from the article franchise owners are complaining about promo prices at 7 dollars. Sounds like a mix of really bad business owners all around.
But yes, charging 12 bucks for something that was 5 bucks a few years ago is the reason people are not visiting. And from the article franchise owners are complaining about promo prices at 7 dollars. Sounds like a mix of really bad business owners all around.
Subway discontinued the $5 footlong deal in 2015.
https://www.distractify.com/p/what-happened-to-five-dollar-f...
https://www.distractify.com/p/what-happened-to-five-dollar-f...
And yet that price stuck around for a long time after... even so, does 10 years justify over doubling the price?
John Oliver did a really good segment on how bad it is to be a Subway franchisee.
They are especially bad. There was a fun fake Korean "Sandwich drama" bit.
They are especially bad. There was a fun fake Korean "Sandwich drama" bit.
Wow! I didn't know this existed. (I'm only a few minutes in, but John Oliver is pretty much always spot on amazing.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdYFhzVCDM
As a former teenager who worked for Subway... seems like it's fallen quite a bit from the early 90s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdYFhzVCDM
As a former teenager who worked for Subway... seems like it's fallen quite a bit from the early 90s.
Sorry that you got dinged.
John Oliver is rather unpopular with a lot of the HN crowd, so I tend not to link to his videos.
John Oliver is rather unpopular with a lot of the HN crowd, so I tend not to link to his videos.
dbg31415(2)
With that kind of price might as well eat steak at home everyday. I use steak index as way to gauge if I want to eat out. And nowadays it's mostly likely cheaper to cook steaks at home
honestly the menu change was a genius move, it raised prices without raising prices.
Prominently display preconfigured versions of your existing items, all of them with 'extra cheese' buried in the description. They charge $1.50 for two slices of processed cheese, quite possibly one of the worst value tack-ons in all of fast food.
The stuff you used to order is now shoved all the way down to the other side of the counter from where you order. You'll never order from it unless you already know about it.
Prominently display preconfigured versions of your existing items, all of them with 'extra cheese' buried in the description. They charge $1.50 for two slices of processed cheese, quite possibly one of the worst value tack-ons in all of fast food.
The stuff you used to order is now shoved all the way down to the other side of the counter from where you order. You'll never order from it unless you already know about it.
Surely the worst value has to go to purchasing a $2+ beverage? I have been told the cup in which it is served can be more expensive than the drink itself.
If they offered cheap subs I would eat there regularly for life. Right now I have to hunt for deals with their flaky app that would require me to log in too frequently. Why not keep me logged in? Who cares about the security of my subway account? If I try to use their app and can't successfully log in after three tries, then I'm going to McDonald's. At least with their app I don't have to wrestle with logging in. I'm always logged in. Don't underestimate the friction that comes with using an app.
In my opinion, their problem isn't cost, location, or menu. It is taste and quality.
Subway is the worst possible sandwich option. I'd rather go to the gas station and buy a protein bar than eat at Subway. I say this as someone that eats at Jersey Mike's and local sandwich shops twice a week.
Subway is the worst possible sandwich option. I'd rather go to the gas station and buy a protein bar than eat at Subway. I say this as someone that eats at Jersey Mike's and local sandwich shops twice a week.
Also, when you regularly promote coupons and sales through the app I feel bad about not using the app like I am wasting money. Lower your prices and get rid of the coupons.
Do they not mail physical coupons where you are?
Here I'm getting a sheet of coupons in the mail monthly, good for a month. The sheet usually includes a couple for a cheap price on most 6" sandwiches, a couple for a cheap price on most footlong sandwiches, a couple for a cheap price on two footlong sandwiches, a couple for a cheap price on 3 footlong sandwiches, plus deals on various sandwich and drink combos, and a couple for free chips or cookies with any purchase.
They will make a sandwich with wet veggies and condiments on the side if you ask, so I've used the 2 and 3 sandwich coupons to have one sandwich made normally for eating then, and the other one or two made with just bread, cheese, meat, onions, and green peppers with tomatoes and pickles in some cups they have for that, and with mustard, mayo, and vinegar in packets. Those sandwiches keep quite well in the fridge for eating the next day or the day after that.
Here I'm getting a sheet of coupons in the mail monthly, good for a month. The sheet usually includes a couple for a cheap price on most 6" sandwiches, a couple for a cheap price on most footlong sandwiches, a couple for a cheap price on two footlong sandwiches, a couple for a cheap price on 3 footlong sandwiches, plus deals on various sandwich and drink combos, and a couple for free chips or cookies with any purchase.
They will make a sandwich with wet veggies and condiments on the side if you ask, so I've used the 2 and 3 sandwich coupons to have one sandwich made normally for eating then, and the other one or two made with just bread, cheese, meat, onions, and green peppers with tomatoes and pickles in some cups they have for that, and with mustard, mayo, and vinegar in packets. Those sandwiches keep quite well in the fridge for eating the next day or the day after that.
They do but it’s infrequent. Like every 2-3 months.
Not using an app is a stand against invasive consumer profiling. Be proud you aren't taking the bait.
Yes. It’s exhausting using an app too. So much work for $2 off with every 4-5 subs you purchase. You collect pts with the app along with getting coupons.
They clearly felt that Jersey Mike's was taking a big chunk of their market share because for about two weeks they were promoting they were now slicing your meat fresh. Two stores I used to frequent had shiny new deli slicers that were on the back counter, unplugged.
I think they got really huge during the late 90's early aughts when fitness and eating well was a big thing. I think with better alternatives, the rising cost of food because of inflation, people just don't see the value of their offerings any more.
I think they got really huge during the late 90's early aughts when fitness and eating well was a big thing. I think with better alternatives, the rising cost of food because of inflation, people just don't see the value of their offerings any more.
Customers refusing to pay inflated prices and suppliers losing business from closed retailers is exactly how markets regulate pricing.
I'm sorry for the disruption to the people displaced but not every single restaurant is entitled to revenue.
I'm sorry for the disruption to the people displaced but not every single restaurant is entitled to revenue.
> but not every single restaurant is entitled to revenue
As much as I am a fan of small business, I see this attitude from a lot of small business owners as their businesses are closing. One near me on Facebook literally said this in one of their final posts (and I get it, emotions are high):
> It is sad to see that our dream with so much potential collapsed because the community wasn't willing to support it.
Like, excuse me? We're the reason your dream died, because we didn't financially support it? I missed the part where that was our responsibility.
As much as I am a fan of small business, I see this attitude from a lot of small business owners as their businesses are closing. One near me on Facebook literally said this in one of their final posts (and I get it, emotions are high):
> It is sad to see that our dream with so much potential collapsed because the community wasn't willing to support it.
Like, excuse me? We're the reason your dream died, because we didn't financially support it? I missed the part where that was our responsibility.
I went into a Subway sometime within the last month to get a soda. Not only was the store completely devoid of customers, it also had no staff. It took 10+ min for an employee to appear. I considered just walking out with the drink during this long wait but I persisted. Once the employee showed up, the soda was overpriced, so I put it back and went to a McDonald's across the street.
Way back in 2006, Subway started baking their sandwich bread with those reusable silicone trays, and it imparted a bad flavor. The potato bread they used for kids sandwiches didn't use the weird trays and actually tasted like freshly baked bread still. A few years later they removed potato bread from their offerings.
Subway's quality has been on the decline for a long time. This latest crisis is simply the consequence of people finally changing their habits when forced to by price.
Way back in 2006, Subway started baking their sandwich bread with those reusable silicone trays, and it imparted a bad flavor. The potato bread they used for kids sandwiches didn't use the weird trays and actually tasted like freshly baked bread still. A few years later they removed potato bread from their offerings.
Subway's quality has been on the decline for a long time. This latest crisis is simply the consequence of people finally changing their habits when forced to by price.
I believe part of the quality decline was due to corporate mandating that the deli meats and cheeses be purchased thru corporate or their supplier. Prior to that franchises could choose their supplier. Corporate wanted to get their cut so they required purchasing thru them. The claim by corporate was they wanted to make the meats and cheeses standardized across all stores. They managed to standardize lower quality.
Letting each franchise choose their meat supplier sounds like a nightmare for things like allergen menus. You do want things standardized across the entire country for a chain.
In recent years they changed the menu, jacked up the prices, and can't seem to keep staff that are willing to clean tables and bathrooms in any location.
It's just gross, go to any Subway, literally anywhere, and the one thing they seem to have in common is that their bathrooms are worse than any truck stop.
Bread is more narrow too in recent years. They've been raising prices and shrinkflating everything they can. Nice to know I wasn't the only consumer who noticed.
As a consumer, I know they didn't "wrong" me, but it sort of feels like they were saying, "We're so much more clever than you, we'll raise your prices and give you less and you won't notice!"
But everyone noticed. And it feels good to see their bottom line suffering. Hope this is the comeuppance they needed to get their act together.
I used to love Subway, hell I ever worked at a Subway when I was in high school. Subway has been on a steady decline the last 5-7 years.
Just one small story... a few months back I picked up some sandwiches for some contractors that were at my house. 3 subs, nothing fancy. And the total was $47 (without drinks, cookies, or a tip). For suburban Texas... this is absurd. The staff member told me, "Use the website or the app next time, there are better deals there..."
So the next time I went to use the website, and I couldn't... their website just dies and hangs on this loading screen if you have an ad-blocker running. Junky. No way I'm disabling my ad-blocker just to order a sandwich.
https://imgur.com/gab7YVo
But... I do have to say, Thundercloud Subs are way better anyway, and most are $5 cheaper than Subway at this point. So Subway being as awful as it is... this pushed me to find something better. Ha. https://thundercloud.com/main-menu/
It's just gross, go to any Subway, literally anywhere, and the one thing they seem to have in common is that their bathrooms are worse than any truck stop.
Bread is more narrow too in recent years. They've been raising prices and shrinkflating everything they can. Nice to know I wasn't the only consumer who noticed.
As a consumer, I know they didn't "wrong" me, but it sort of feels like they were saying, "We're so much more clever than you, we'll raise your prices and give you less and you won't notice!"
But everyone noticed. And it feels good to see their bottom line suffering. Hope this is the comeuppance they needed to get their act together.
I used to love Subway, hell I ever worked at a Subway when I was in high school. Subway has been on a steady decline the last 5-7 years.
Just one small story... a few months back I picked up some sandwiches for some contractors that were at my house. 3 subs, nothing fancy. And the total was $47 (without drinks, cookies, or a tip). For suburban Texas... this is absurd. The staff member told me, "Use the website or the app next time, there are better deals there..."
So the next time I went to use the website, and I couldn't... their website just dies and hangs on this loading screen if you have an ad-blocker running. Junky. No way I'm disabling my ad-blocker just to order a sandwich.
https://imgur.com/gab7YVo
But... I do have to say, Thundercloud Subs are way better anyway, and most are $5 cheaper than Subway at this point. So Subway being as awful as it is... this pushed me to find something better. Ha. https://thundercloud.com/main-menu/
In recent years they changed the menu, jacked up the prices, and can't seem to keep staff that are willing to clean tables and bathrooms in any location.
I haven’t eaten at a Subway in a good ten years, and one of the reasons was because they were often dirty-looking (or just outright dirty). So from my experience, it is not just “recent years”. As for the rest, meh, they were a serviceable option, but never all that great. Meaning that for me at least, it didn’t take much (menu change, higher prices) to start looking for alternatives.
I haven’t eaten at a Subway in a good ten years, and one of the reasons was because they were often dirty-looking (or just outright dirty). So from my experience, it is not just “recent years”. As for the rest, meh, they were a serviceable option, but never all that great. Meaning that for me at least, it didn’t take much (menu change, higher prices) to start looking for alternatives.
When I worked at Subway as a teenager in the early 90s in Seattle... our manager was the owner. He was a real stickler for bathroom cleanliness. The bathrooms were inspected and tidied up every hour, and cleaned every 4 hours. He always threatened to fire "the whole team" if he ever stopped by and found a bathroom that he would feel "embarrassed to have his mother use." (I don't think he ever fired anyone, he would just call you over and make you re-do something if it wasn't done right. Honestly he was a really good boss for a kid to have.)
I think there's been a big shift away from the franchise owners being the day-to-day managers, and they just hire someone and near-minimum wage to be the manager now. Gut feeling on it anyway. Doesn't feel like anyone who works there cares or takes any personal pride in the cleanliness of the bathrooms. (Ha, is this what getting old feels like?)
I think there's been a big shift away from the franchise owners being the day-to-day managers, and they just hire someone and near-minimum wage to be the manager now. Gut feeling on it anyway. Doesn't feel like anyone who works there cares or takes any personal pride in the cleanliness of the bathrooms. (Ha, is this what getting old feels like?)
> I think there's been a big shift away from the franchise owners being the day-to-day managers
An interesting thing that I've noticed in the last several years in my area is that most of the franchise shops around here are owned by a handful of investment companies rather than actual people.
An interesting thing that I've noticed in the last several years in my area is that most of the franchise shops around here are owned by a handful of investment companies rather than actual people.
Re getting old, 90s teenager here as well. I remember being able to get two high-quality footlong sandwiches plus sub stamps (member those? ) for a bonus 10% for about an hour’s work at “crappy” minimum wages. Now? Maybe one lousy quality sandwich.
You got a lot more working crappy jobs back then vs working crappy jobs now.
You got a lot more working crappy jobs back then vs working crappy jobs now.
Stamps and punch cards were our apps back then.
One perk of working at Subway was that my boss didn’t mind if we made sandwiches for ourselves.
My go-to was roast beef and tuna.
And I could trade a Subway sandwich for a burrito at the place next door, or even a video at the video rental place. Lots of little perks I remember.
One perk of working at Subway was that my boss didn’t mind if we made sandwiches for ourselves.
My go-to was roast beef and tuna.
And I could trade a Subway sandwich for a burrito at the place next door, or even a video at the video rental place. Lots of little perks I remember.
They force their franchises to use the absolute cheapest materials possible? Have you seen their turkey breasts? Don't see their turkey breasts.
Their bread isn't even technically bread.
They also, somehow, against all odds, made the five dollar footlong, their most popular offering, NOT five dollars.
The stores in their network are usually gross and uninviting.
Meanwhile, Jimmy John's, which is only 20 years younger, has fresh (good!) bread that's baked on premise, decent quality meats and cheeses, and stores that are clean, welcome and well decorated.
Subway is the personification of "I've done nothing and am out of ideas!"
(Subway is owned by Roark who also owns Dunkin and Arby's, brands that are THRIVING.)
Their bread isn't even technically bread.
They also, somehow, against all odds, made the five dollar footlong, their most popular offering, NOT five dollars.
The stores in their network are usually gross and uninviting.
Meanwhile, Jimmy John's, which is only 20 years younger, has fresh (good!) bread that's baked on premise, decent quality meats and cheeses, and stores that are clean, welcome and well decorated.
Subway is the personification of "I've done nothing and am out of ideas!"
(Subway is owned by Roark who also owns Dunkin and Arby's, brands that are THRIVING.)
The location near me has their most expensive sub at $21 for a footlong. Fast food does not make sense anymore, the quality hasn't risen to meet the next higher tier of food but the prices have.
At this point I view fast food as a laziness or convenience tax. Like food at an airport, only people with no other options would opt into it (an exaggeration sure).
Meanwhile Jersey Mikes has "giant" subs (that are actually a foot long and almost twice as wide as a Subway sub) starting at $13 to $19. And those can easily feed two (my gf and I will occasionally get a Philly from there, and a giant will feed both of us).
I realize this is HN and not WSJ, but after Starbucks and McDonalds this seems like another demographic-broadening indicator in the “many people are newly not paying for relatively cheap, easily available cooked food” category.
Tech employees of course might be just going somewhere nicer. Why that would suddenly happen and as a bigger % of sales than tech employees represent is unclear.
For other people who can afford a $7 sandwich and can’t afford a $12 sandwich, this is a big signal.
Tech employees of course might be just going somewhere nicer. Why that would suddenly happen and as a bigger % of sales than tech employees represent is unclear.
For other people who can afford a $7 sandwich and can’t afford a $12 sandwich, this is a big signal.
My niece had the following to say about this; I don't know if I agree but I wanted to share the insight:
* The group/indicator really is "people paying for absolutely cheap, easily available cooked food" instead of "relatively" - the demographic in question has experienced wages not increasing with inflation.
* A Tiktok comment she saw and pointed out to me said this: "I'm not paying $12 for a sandwich that used to be $5."
Perhaps their "5 dollar footlong ad" was simply too effective.
* The group/indicator really is "people paying for absolutely cheap, easily available cooked food" instead of "relatively" - the demographic in question has experienced wages not increasing with inflation.
* A Tiktok comment she saw and pointed out to me said this: "I'm not paying $12 for a sandwich that used to be $5."
Perhaps their "5 dollar footlong ad" was simply too effective.
Agreed on both points. Minimum wage needs to move, but doing so too quickly could make things worse.
There is a psychological training aspect, but it is unclear to what degree it correlates with the underlying financial reality. Are they both offended and unable to buy or just offended? In a non-anonymous social medium it is safer to communicate outrage than desperate poverty.
There is a psychological training aspect, but it is unclear to what degree it correlates with the underlying financial reality. Are they both offended and unable to buy or just offended? In a non-anonymous social medium it is safer to communicate outrage than desperate poverty.
They've spent so much on celebrity endorsements and so many of the Subways near me suffer from quality control issues. The one closest to my house cannot get a single order correct. Delivery drivers get frustrated waiting even when it's not busy. It's supposed to be 24 hours, but is closed at random times and is simply just unreliable all around.
It's like everything else, profits have been prioritized over everything else. There's simply no reason they have to be in trouble other than greed - overexpansion, advertising a ton but not enforcing quality (which is probably cheaper, but not useful)
I don't care who some famous sports players pretend to like, I want something I can depend on. Subway is the McDonald's of sub sandwiches. They've done so many menu changes and got rid of one of my favorite things, and their reshuffling and rebranding drives me nuts.
It's like everything else, profits have been prioritized over everything else. There's simply no reason they have to be in trouble other than greed - overexpansion, advertising a ton but not enforcing quality (which is probably cheaper, but not useful)
I don't care who some famous sports players pretend to like, I want something I can depend on. Subway is the McDonald's of sub sandwiches. They've done so many menu changes and got rid of one of my favorite things, and their reshuffling and rebranding drives me nuts.
Isn't Subway the one that doesn't give any of their franchisees an exclusive territory, and allows anyone to open a new Subway just next door to your Subway?
> Subway, which owns none of its restaurants and makes its money through 8% royalty fees it collects from franchisees, now faces interest payments on debt following its sale to Roark and can’t afford to have declining earnings, sources said.
The classic private equity playbook is about to kill Subway.
(Not that it was doing great before, but take a distressed company and saddle it with a ton of debt payments on top of its existing problems just... never seemed like a winning strategy to me.
The classic private equity playbook is about to kill Subway.
(Not that it was doing great before, but take a distressed company and saddle it with a ton of debt payments on top of its existing problems just... never seemed like a winning strategy to me.
How hard is it to convert franchisees? Like could Jimmy Johns come up with a conversion plan and start marketing to move debts over etc?
They have trained their best customers to expect a BOGOF deal. We had Subway about a dozen times this year but only buy one get one free. Maybe they need to adjust their deals - buy one sandwich a month and you get $1 off a footlong, buy 2/month you get $2 off and so on down to half price if you buy 7 or more a month.
[deleted]
Between the price increase and the now effectively-mandatory tip, the price of a footlong sandwich has doubled in less than 4 years. Gee, I wonder why sales have dropped?
[deleted]
It's not clear to me what the core issue is here.
A lot of people say "it's too expensive for what you get" which feels true, but I experience sticker shock with all fast food these days.
My last few meals on GrubHub (I live in SF):
- 2x Double Cheeseburgers from Calibur: $39.90
- 2x Super Burrito from local Mexican restaurant: $41.24
- General's Chicken, Mongolian Beef, Rice, and Cream Cheese Wontons from local Chinese restaurant: $60.34
- Chicken Cashew Nut, Pananag Curry, Rice from local Thai: $48.14
So like... it's all extreme these days? $40 for two cheeseburgers makes Subway seem tame in comparison.
It could very well be the quality of their ingredients. They did revise their menu/ingredients in 2021, https://newsroom.subway.com/2021-07-06-Subway-Debuts-Largest... but I didn't hear any big backlash regarding that so I assumed it was reasonably well received. I'm not especially convinced by this argument because I would expect cheaper ingredients to translate to cheaper costs and to allow them to capitalize on a slightly different market.
I know Subway has a long history of encouraging too high density of franchises, no source though. Is this just a continuation of that problem? Maybe higher density makes them perform even worse in the new, delivery-first market? Or maybe it's a failure to simply adapt to the delivery-first market? I know I don't order that many sandwiches because I default to thinking, "I can make a sandwich at home pretty easily" where I don't feel similarly about hot/cooked food delivery.
It could also just be the media blowing Subway out of proportion? A lot of the market is starting to show cracks and there were a few warning signs of recession recently. McDonalds reported weakening sales recently, too (https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/mcdonalds-s...) Is the problem not related to Subway at all? Are consumers just tightening their purse strings?
A lot of people say "it's too expensive for what you get" which feels true, but I experience sticker shock with all fast food these days.
My last few meals on GrubHub (I live in SF):
- 2x Double Cheeseburgers from Calibur: $39.90
- 2x Super Burrito from local Mexican restaurant: $41.24
- General's Chicken, Mongolian Beef, Rice, and Cream Cheese Wontons from local Chinese restaurant: $60.34
- Chicken Cashew Nut, Pananag Curry, Rice from local Thai: $48.14
So like... it's all extreme these days? $40 for two cheeseburgers makes Subway seem tame in comparison.
It could very well be the quality of their ingredients. They did revise their menu/ingredients in 2021, https://newsroom.subway.com/2021-07-06-Subway-Debuts-Largest... but I didn't hear any big backlash regarding that so I assumed it was reasonably well received. I'm not especially convinced by this argument because I would expect cheaper ingredients to translate to cheaper costs and to allow them to capitalize on a slightly different market.
I know Subway has a long history of encouraging too high density of franchises, no source though. Is this just a continuation of that problem? Maybe higher density makes them perform even worse in the new, delivery-first market? Or maybe it's a failure to simply adapt to the delivery-first market? I know I don't order that many sandwiches because I default to thinking, "I can make a sandwich at home pretty easily" where I don't feel similarly about hot/cooked food delivery.
It could also just be the media blowing Subway out of proportion? A lot of the market is starting to show cracks and there were a few warning signs of recession recently. McDonalds reported weakening sales recently, too (https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/mcdonalds-s...) Is the problem not related to Subway at all? Are consumers just tightening their purse strings?
> So like... it's all extreme these days? $40 for two cheeseburgers makes Subway seem tame in comparison.
That's the delivery price, right? Pick-up price is $24 https://order.toasttab.com/online/calibursf
That's the delivery price, right? Pick-up price is $24 https://order.toasttab.com/online/calibursf
Grubhub has price markups, service fee, delivery fee, and tipping that might be skewing the comparison compared to walking in to Subway. The base Subway price has gone up relative to the less expensive tier of real restaurants. And it's not only Subway.
[deleted]
You can't honestly quote prices from Grubhub or DoorDash as real pricing.
Apropos of the other reply, you can't compare GrubHub/Uber Eats/etc. pricing to "Subway/etc., in store".
If they'd use bread instead of 'bread' I'd eat there all the time.
They still have sales?
I finally after long time got some as they were like -50% and I was still mildly disappointed at that price. Here in European country, they are too expensive for what they offer.
Similar, and the ingredients seem to have taken a dive in quality. I don't know if that's true in the US where the meeting is happening.
> Subway now faces interest payments on debt following its sale to Roark and can’t afford to have declining earnings, sources said.
Just another company that will be bankrupt shortly after selling to private equity.
Fast food chains raised prices dramatically during Covid and are now dealing with declining sales as the economy cools. They need to actually push their suppliers to cut costs and try to get back to baseline.
This is a tough pill an independent company could swallow. But the new private equity owners will never do that.
Just another company that will be bankrupt shortly after selling to private equity.
Fast food chains raised prices dramatically during Covid and are now dealing with declining sales as the economy cools. They need to actually push their suppliers to cut costs and try to get back to baseline.
This is a tough pill an independent company could swallow. But the new private equity owners will never do that.
Stop making shitty food?
Ozympic casualty
I will never get over the fact that they used a now-convicted pedophile as their spokesperson for fifteen years. I literally cannot even see the Subway logo without thinking of despicable Subway Jared. No way I will ever eat their food again.
Were they aware of that at the time though? If I'm remembering right they cut him out right after the allegations emerged.
> Fogle appeared in Subway's advertising campaigns from 2000 to 2015
> Allegations of Fogle having inappropriate relations with minors began in 2007
> Following Fogle's arrest, the FBI also subpoenaed a series of text messages made in 2008 between Fogle and Subway franchisee Cindy Mills, with whom he was having a sexual relationship at the time. In these messages, Fogle talked about sexually abusing children ranging in age from 9 to 16, told her to sell herself for sex on Craigslist, and asked her to arrange for him to have sex with her 16-year-old cousin. Mills's lawyer said that she had alerted Subway's corporate management about the text messages, but that they had responded that because Fogle was not a Subway employee, there was no violation. Subway representatives said they had no record of Mills's allegations.
> On October 24, 2016, Kathleen McLaughlin's lawyers filed suit against Subway in Indiana. The suit alleges that Subway violated McLaughlin's privacy and property rights, and caused personal injury to McLaughlin by covering up at least three instances of Fogle's illegal behavior that were reported to senior management, including the allegation that Subway's senior vice president of marketing hushed up a 2004 incident in which Fogle propositioned a young girl at a promotional event at a Subway franchise in Las Vegas.
It all sounds a bit like Jimmy Saville, where "people knew" but were not concerned about the victims, because he was making them money.
> Allegations of Fogle having inappropriate relations with minors began in 2007
> Following Fogle's arrest, the FBI also subpoenaed a series of text messages made in 2008 between Fogle and Subway franchisee Cindy Mills, with whom he was having a sexual relationship at the time. In these messages, Fogle talked about sexually abusing children ranging in age from 9 to 16, told her to sell herself for sex on Craigslist, and asked her to arrange for him to have sex with her 16-year-old cousin. Mills's lawyer said that she had alerted Subway's corporate management about the text messages, but that they had responded that because Fogle was not a Subway employee, there was no violation. Subway representatives said they had no record of Mills's allegations.
> On October 24, 2016, Kathleen McLaughlin's lawyers filed suit against Subway in Indiana. The suit alleges that Subway violated McLaughlin's privacy and property rights, and caused personal injury to McLaughlin by covering up at least three instances of Fogle's illegal behavior that were reported to senior management, including the allegation that Subway's senior vice president of marketing hushed up a 2004 incident in which Fogle propositioned a young girl at a promotional event at a Subway franchise in Las Vegas.
It all sounds a bit like Jimmy Saville, where "people knew" but were not concerned about the victims, because he was making them money.
[deleted]
Haven't gotten into a Subway since eating there had me shit and puke my guts out for 10 days straight in 2012. Not missing a thing.
Well conflating yoga mats with their bread doesn't entice customers to their stores[1](to be fair its a natural occurring ingredient but it grossed alot of people out). Plus there is a slew of amazing sandwich shops right now - Jimmy Johns, Jersey Mikes and Firehouse subs. I would spend a little more and not eat something that tastes like it was grown in a vat(bread).
[1] - https://www.prevention.com/food-nutrition/healthy-eating/a20...
[1] - https://www.prevention.com/food-nutrition/healthy-eating/a20...
Simpsons did it https://frinkiac.com/caption/S06E21/284016
There's not much you can do about people being objectively wrong about chemistry.
If you refuse to share any ingredients with yoga mats, you can't use water.
If you refuse to share any ingredients with yoga mats, you can't use water.
Most people understand that, and don’t object to water, they object to obscure chemicals that aren’t part of normal, natural food.
Bread is made of yeast, flour, water and salt. Anything else isn’t bread. And this isn’t pining for some mythical past: there are still countries where you can buy real bread on practically every street, and it’s better.
People know Subway bread doesn’t taste like food, even if they might have misidentified the specific ingredient that’s at fault.
Bread is made of yeast, flour, water and salt. Anything else isn’t bread. And this isn’t pining for some mythical past: there are still countries where you can buy real bread on practically every street, and it’s better.
People know Subway bread doesn’t taste like food, even if they might have misidentified the specific ingredient that’s at fault.
> ... they object to obscure chemicals that aren’t part of normal, natural food.
Have you looked at the ingredient list for fruits?
Have you looked at the ingredient list for fruits?
> Bread is made of yeast, flour, water and salt. Anything else isn’t bread.
This is simply wrong and excludes quite a lot of traditional and uncontroversial breads. Your ingredient list (you don't technically need the salt, by the way) describes the minimalist -- and best, in my opinion -- yeasted bread. I consider unleavened and alternatively leavened breads to be breads as well, but that's neither here nor there.
But potato bread is also bread. Bread doesn't stop being bread because you've added seeds, or egg, etc.
I think Subway's bread is certainly bread. Really terrible bread, but bread nonetheless.
Subway's "obscure ingredients" aren't uniquely terrible. They're common ingredients that exist in a whole lot of your diet unless you're taking great pains to avoid them. I would prefer they weren't there at all, but that they are is neither surprising nor particularly outrageous. They're part of industrial food production, and fast food is absolutely industrial food production.
> there are still countries where you can buy real bread on practically every street, and it’s better.
You can do this in most of the US. Maybe not on every street, but it's readily available.
This is simply wrong and excludes quite a lot of traditional and uncontroversial breads. Your ingredient list (you don't technically need the salt, by the way) describes the minimalist -- and best, in my opinion -- yeasted bread. I consider unleavened and alternatively leavened breads to be breads as well, but that's neither here nor there.
But potato bread is also bread. Bread doesn't stop being bread because you've added seeds, or egg, etc.
I think Subway's bread is certainly bread. Really terrible bread, but bread nonetheless.
Subway's "obscure ingredients" aren't uniquely terrible. They're common ingredients that exist in a whole lot of your diet unless you're taking great pains to avoid them. I would prefer they weren't there at all, but that they are is neither surprising nor particularly outrageous. They're part of industrial food production, and fast food is absolutely industrial food production.
> there are still countries where you can buy real bread on practically every street, and it’s better.
You can do this in most of the US. Maybe not on every street, but it's readily available.
https://usf.campusdish.com/-/media/Local/Higher-Education/Gr...
It's bread.
The fact that they freeze and ship the dough probably has something to do with the quality...
It's bread.
The fact that they freeze and ship the dough probably has something to do with the quality...
I was ready to go along with that but uh, it converts down to urethane. Let's maybe let people take the hit on their bread not being so fluffy (and probably more profitable) to avoid extra urethane in our food.
Similarly with a sibling comment about how we use condom lubricant in cooking oils, maybe we just shouldn't?
Similarly with a sibling comment about how we use condom lubricant in cooking oils, maybe we just shouldn't?
Isn't the yeast also producing urethane?
And metabolic pathways are very complicated, you can't really judge whether something is a problem by looking at intermediates that exist in tiny quantities.
And metabolic pathways are very complicated, you can't really judge whether something is a problem by looking at intermediates that exist in tiny quantities.
I mean, there's polydimethylsiloxane in your soda, your nuggies and your shaving cream, but nobody's mad about that :)
oh this is not me thats outraged, its just a bad sounding headline to be sure for the general public. And even though they removed the ingredient the bread is not great there period.
Because they aren't aware that it's there or of its dangers
It's mostly inert and generally recognized as safe. It's also on the ingredients list, and even the EU allows it, as additive E900. Last re-evaluated in 2020.
[1] https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa...
[1] https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa...
Is this another leveraged buyout? When are they going to make that illegal? You can't even do that in a game of 18xx, and lord knows those are cut throat enough.