2024: A Record-Breaking Year for the Ocean Cleanup(theoceancleanup.com)
theoceancleanup.com
2024: A Record-Breaking Year for the Ocean Cleanup
https://theoceancleanup.com/updates/2024-a-record-breaking-year-for-the-ocean-cleanup/
29 comments
I can't remember the names of people or the video title now, but I remember watching it few years ago - this family moves to a remote place and builds a cabin there. Their son (25 years old, I think) dies. They live there for a while and decide to leave, spend their older years elsewhere. When they leave, they pack/clean up everything. Their goal is to leave the place as they found it, to the best of their ability. They didn't waste (or pollute) anything to begin with.
Of course one can argue they could've left their cabin to someone else etc (maybe they would have, if they found someone, I don't remember all the details now). It was refreshing to see that old couple talk about the impact of their actions on the land, animals around etc, in a society that constantly talks about "legacy". If we don't pollute this much in the first place, maybe we can keep other problems in check
Of course one can argue they could've left their cabin to someone else etc (maybe they would have, if they found someone, I don't remember all the details now). It was refreshing to see that old couple talk about the impact of their actions on the land, animals around etc, in a society that constantly talks about "legacy". If we don't pollute this much in the first place, maybe we can keep other problems in check
Support projects like the paper bottle? Albeit it still has plastic liner, but the majority is paper.
Here is a YouTube video of PaBoCo. https://youtu.be/i2f2OrRpFjY
Here is a YouTube video of PaBoCo. https://youtu.be/i2f2OrRpFjY
I saw Costco has shopping bags made from recycled ocean plastic. That's one way to address the problem, even if it is much more expensive than using virgin plastic.
Incinerator with carbon capture is pretty good?
I would also accept "incinerator to replace [some of the] fossil fuel being burned by the ships anyway."
This would also reduce the number of trips to deliver waste to shore, which has further energy and cost benefits.
While numbers says that (if done done right) this could be greener, one challenge is that it doesn't feel greener. Decades of recycling PR has skewed our perception
Probably you only incinerate the non-recyclable plastic. This is still >50% of the total catch by mass.
This would also reduce the number of trips to deliver waste to shore, which has further energy and cost benefits.
While numbers says that (if done done right) this could be greener, one challenge is that it doesn't feel greener. Decades of recycling PR has skewed our perception
Probably you only incinerate the non-recyclable plastic. This is still >50% of the total catch by mass.
This article [1] claims that only 0.4% of all the plastic in the oceans floats to the surface, and is therefore reachable by boat.
I feel like ocean cleanup is done more to make us feel better about using plastic bottles than to actually solve the problem. Maybe that money would have been better spent lobbying against some kinds of platics rather than on boats to scoop the coastline?
[1] https://help.plasticbank.com/en_US/collection-community-memb...
I feel like ocean cleanup is done more to make us feel better about using plastic bottles than to actually solve the problem. Maybe that money would have been better spent lobbying against some kinds of platics rather than on boats to scoop the coastline?
[1] https://help.plasticbank.com/en_US/collection-community-memb...
I wonder about the river barriers. I buy that the ocean buoys aren’t effective, but it seems like plastic would be a lot more concentrated in the rivers that feed it into the ocean, and the rivers themselves are a lot shallower. I would be interested in reading an expert opinion on whether those make sense.
Also, the criticism I’ve read runs along the lines “they can’t clean up a huge proportion of ocean plastic,” but the engineer in me can’t help but feel that that’s the wrong angle—it seems like the question should be “how does it compare to other methods on $/(kg plastic removed)”? Of course that question is currently unanswerable because what the critics propose is research, whose results are by definition undefined, but I guess I wish it was the focus of the conversation.
Also, the criticism I’ve read runs along the lines “they can’t clean up a huge proportion of ocean plastic,” but the engineer in me can’t help but feel that that’s the wrong angle—it seems like the question should be “how does it compare to other methods on $/(kg plastic removed)”? Of course that question is currently unanswerable because what the critics propose is research, whose results are by definition undefined, but I guess I wish it was the focus of the conversation.
> I wonder about the river barriers. I buy that the ocean buoys aren’t effective, but it seems like plastic would be a lot more concentrated in the rivers that feed it into the ocean, and the rivers themselves are a lot shallower. I would be interested in reading an expert opinion on whether those make sense.
What is it that you're wondering about exactly? The article mentions and explains the progress of the "plastics in rivers blocking" that they're doing, in the "PREVENTING PLASTIC AT ITS SOURCE" section.
> Our mission goes beyond cleaning the oceans; we also work to stop plastic from entering waterways in the first place.
What is it that you're wondering about exactly? The article mentions and explains the progress of the "plastics in rivers blocking" that they're doing, in the "PREVENTING PLASTIC AT ITS SOURCE" section.
> Our mission goes beyond cleaning the oceans; we also work to stop plastic from entering waterways in the first place.
I think the river barriers are certainly the most effective in terms of waste reduction per dollar, it’s just a question of optics— to Joe Public, the idea of only working on slowing the flow of new waste sounds too much like we’re declaring bankruptcy on what is already in the open ocean.
I subscribe to their YouTube channel and it seems like their trash blocking systems they have installed in rivers is probably the most valuable part of the whole thing from the outside observer's perspective. The amount of plastic they pull from these is really pretty incredible. But yeah, the part where they are on the open ocean collecting it seems pretty daunting, but maybe robotics can help one day??
Aren't the entire tropes and myths around pioneering startups to "start small" in someones garage? Why expect immediate perfection from a non-profit?
It is irrelevant how small their impact is right now - at least someone is actually doing something against the behemoth problem of pollution.
It is irrelevant how small their impact is right now - at least someone is actually doing something against the behemoth problem of pollution.
Surface might be enough to save Albatrosses from extinction. Every little bit helps!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18730865
Previous discussion on this
Previous discussion on this
From 2018, and seemingly very outdated. They're not just trawling the open ocean for plastics anymore, which is the base premise of the comment.
I agree. This seems like they treating symptoms of the problem than the actual cause.
> I agree. This seems like they treating symptoms of the problem than the actual cause.
How do you agree with something when you don't even take 2 minutes to read a bit more, especially about what you're complaining about? They're not only trying to pick up plastics in the ocean, but also stop plastic from going from the rivers that flow into the oceans, and preventing plastic from entering the rivers in the first place.
How do you agree with something when you don't even take 2 minutes to read a bit more, especially about what you're complaining about? They're not only trying to pick up plastics in the ocean, but also stop plastic from going from the rivers that flow into the oceans, and preventing plastic from entering the rivers in the first place.
Sometimes it’s better to treat the symptoms if the root cause is out of reach.
In this case calling the root cause out of reach seems more like a form of learned helplessness than an actually true statement though.
If you are a normal individual and don’t control or have influence over the largest polluters in the world it seems to me your options are either:
- Come at it from an angle assuming people and nations will continue to pollute and try to clean up the mess (what this group is doing). It is a bit defeatist but more realist than other takes. I would assert that it is the opposite of helplessness. This is a group actually doing something that they are capable of doing and having some impact. Likely more impact than your or I. - Try to shame individuals into doing better. This seems to have limited success as collective action today is much weaker than in the past, and this is more of a systems / incentives / externalities problem than an individual one.
- Come at it from an angle assuming people and nations will continue to pollute and try to clean up the mess (what this group is doing). It is a bit defeatist but more realist than other takes. I would assert that it is the opposite of helplessness. This is a group actually doing something that they are capable of doing and having some impact. Likely more impact than your or I. - Try to shame individuals into doing better. This seems to have limited success as collective action today is much weaker than in the past, and this is more of a systems / incentives / externalities problem than an individual one.
Oh, yeah, it's so out of reach to force companies (entities made by and comprising of humans) to not use a packaging that destroys the earth (the place where humans live).
- There is the financial solution: taxing the hell out of plastic packaging.
- There is the policy solution: simply not allowing plastic products.
- There is the consumer solution: people refusing to buy plastic crap.
- There is the R&D solution: producing better packaging (biodegradable, non-toxic etc)
- There is the waste disposal solution: making sure plastic is properly separated and recycled/upcycled/disposed of.
This is not a problem that's out of reach, it's a problem of human greed, wrong incentives, no political will, and general population apathy. But yeah, when babies start being born en massse with disabilities and grown ups start dying due to microplastics accumulation in soft tissues, the apathy will turn to anger, and suddenly political will will be there!
But for now, all we have is relying on a Dutch guy's startup to clean our rivers and oceans cause we simply.gotta.drink.from.a.plastic.bottle. \s.
- There is the financial solution: taxing the hell out of plastic packaging.
- There is the policy solution: simply not allowing plastic products.
- There is the consumer solution: people refusing to buy plastic crap.
- There is the R&D solution: producing better packaging (biodegradable, non-toxic etc)
- There is the waste disposal solution: making sure plastic is properly separated and recycled/upcycled/disposed of.
This is not a problem that's out of reach, it's a problem of human greed, wrong incentives, no political will, and general population apathy. But yeah, when babies start being born en massse with disabilities and grown ups start dying due to microplastics accumulation in soft tissues, the apathy will turn to anger, and suddenly political will will be there!
But for now, all we have is relying on a Dutch guy's startup to clean our rivers and oceans cause we simply.gotta.drink.from.a.plastic.bottle. \s.
All I’m saying is that there is a huge machine backed my more money than can be reasoned about which doesn’t care about the environment.
It’s been an almost 100 year battle to get laws and business culture to be more mindful.
It’s clear that it doesn’t really work. At best it works, but far too slowly.
The most any small group of people can do is treat symptoms.
I don’t have faith in our ability to solve the root cause in the face of the political-industrial machine.
Just in 2020 we saw crypto explode. An insane money hungry machine that burned energy to literally waste time so that the value of a record in a ledger increased.
Both individuals and large businesses jumped on that trend with 0 care towards the environment.
LLMs are similar in terms of energy consumption as well.
I’m sorry, but I can’t share your optimism.
It’s been an almost 100 year battle to get laws and business culture to be more mindful.
It’s clear that it doesn’t really work. At best it works, but far too slowly.
The most any small group of people can do is treat symptoms.
I don’t have faith in our ability to solve the root cause in the face of the political-industrial machine.
Just in 2020 we saw crypto explode. An insane money hungry machine that burned energy to literally waste time so that the value of a record in a ledger increased.
Both individuals and large businesses jumped on that trend with 0 care towards the environment.
LLMs are similar in terms of energy consumption as well.
I’m sorry, but I can’t share your optimism.
"This year, The Ocean Cleanup removed 11.5 million kilos of plastic from oceans and rivers."
I don't want to diminish this effort, but just to put this into perspective:
* About 460 million tons of plastic are produced every year
* About 20 million tons of that plastic end up in the environment as litter
* About 14 million tons of plastic end up in the seas every year, so this project removed roughly 0.08% of that.
I don't want to diminish this effort, but just to put this into perspective:
* About 460 million tons of plastic are produced every year
* About 20 million tons of that plastic end up in the environment as litter
* About 14 million tons of plastic end up in the seas every year, so this project removed roughly 0.08% of that.
Impressive for a single initiative.
I live in Thailand and I applaud their work - also here at the Chao Praya river.
However, I wonder if the money would not be better spend in lobbying, enforcing etc. a plastic tax on throw away plastic goods.
In my home country in Germany, the use of throw away plastic is much less due to effective regulations.
If we have only a finite amount of money to stop plastic pollution, invest it in recycling or avoidance?
However, I wonder if the money would not be better spend in lobbying, enforcing etc. a plastic tax on throw away plastic goods.
In my home country in Germany, the use of throw away plastic is much less due to effective regulations.
If we have only a finite amount of money to stop plastic pollution, invest it in recycling or avoidance?
Why not both? Use the tax to fund the cleanup. If people stop throwing away plastic, we won't need the funds.
I applaud the effort and results, but I would also like to see some perspective and a broader view in this article.
For example, it could include graphs showing the estimated amount of plastic being dumped into the ocean yearly, the current total amount of plastic in the ocean, and the amount they have cleaned up on 2024/so far to provide a clearer picture of the overall progress.
For example, it could include graphs showing the estimated amount of plastic being dumped into the ocean yearly, the current total amount of plastic in the ocean, and the amount they have cleaned up on 2024/so far to provide a clearer picture of the overall progress.
These are projects the world needs more of.
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However, it’s also important to recognize that in a closed system (such as our planet) there is no such thing as “throwing away”. And in a complex system, again such as ours, there is no solving a problem, just moving it or managing it.
I’m at a loss as what to do.