Older adults disproportionately hindered by touch screen interfaces (2023)(journals.sagepub.com)
journals.sagepub.com
Older adults disproportionately hindered by touch screen interfaces (2023)
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21695067231193656
134 comments
that's the issue with industries like this.. no one asked for touchscreen controls, but they're cheaper and make the manufacturers more money. no one asked for their private conversations to be recorded and sold, but that juicy data is profitable.
it's not like people can stop buying cars until the situation improves. joe q public can't be expected to start a grassroots movement and go lobby, he needs to get to work to feed his four kids, which means he's buying whichever car is available. it's also impossible to vote with your wallet when every [0] auto company places profit above safety/functionality.
[0] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/article...
it's not like people can stop buying cars until the situation improves. joe q public can't be expected to start a grassroots movement and go lobby, he needs to get to work to feed his four kids, which means he's buying whichever car is available. it's also impossible to vote with your wallet when every [0] auto company places profit above safety/functionality.
[0] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/article...
If business is unable to self-regulate, it is the job of government to step in and force them to correct.
Unfortunately for us, government has largely failed in its official capacities and responsibilities, nearly all of them, and so things will continue breaking until loss of life and limb becomes common, where no one can sit on the sidelines any more if they want to survive.
This is what happens when corrupt people are allowed to warp existing systems for personal gain, and cannot be removed except in egregious violations of law.
Unfortunately for us, government has largely failed in its official capacities and responsibilities, nearly all of them, and so things will continue breaking until loss of life and limb becomes common, where no one can sit on the sidelines any more if they want to survive.
This is what happens when corrupt people are allowed to warp existing systems for personal gain, and cannot be removed except in egregious violations of law.
> no one asked for touchscreen controls
When they first came out in cars, most people wanted one. Even I did. Then I got one and learned how terrible it is.
When they first came out in cars, most people wanted one. Even I did. Then I got one and learned how terrible it is.
I remember test driving a Buick Reatta in the late 80's. At the time, I thought it was the first car to get a touch screen interface, but it turns out that the Buick Riviera had one a year earlier. It was an interesting gimmick, but not practical. I did not buy the car.
I had learned about the GM touch screen interface because I worked for Hughes at the time, and after GM's purchase of Hughes in 1985, they recruited a bunch of engineers from Hughes to automate and improve the vehicle designs and production lines. I had been offered a TDY position in Flint, MI, but who would want to leave Southern California for a job in that place? Just one of many offers that I never regretted turning down.
I had learned about the GM touch screen interface because I worked for Hughes at the time, and after GM's purchase of Hughes in 1985, they recruited a bunch of engineers from Hughes to automate and improve the vehicle designs and production lines. I had been offered a TDY position in Flint, MI, but who would want to leave Southern California for a job in that place? Just one of many offers that I never regretted turning down.
If people did not buy cars with touch screens when they started to get introduced, they would be gone by now. But they seem to be accepted by new car buyers which is the market that matters to manufacturers.
No one asked replacing horses, but…
Might be fine for non-critical entertainment systems which nowadays also take voice control, but never critical vehicle functions. Things like hazard lights and HVAC should be illegal to be on touch screens.
Add "turning on the windshield wipers" and "indicating with your blinker" to that list. Looking at you Tesla with your death-trap touch screen controls.
You have to use a touch screen for those on a Tesla? If true that is asinine, those cars aren't safe to drive.
Yes, for wipers you need to make window swiping gesture on the screen and for wipers you tap 3 times on either side of screen.
> Might be fine for non-critical entertainment systems which nowadays also take voice control
As someone who uses a lot of greasy sunscreen lotion during long sunny-day drives: no, they still aren't. I don't want to talk to my car in the first place, and it probably couldn't hear me anyway with the music loud and the windows down.
As someone who uses a lot of greasy sunscreen lotion during long sunny-day drives: no, they still aren't. I don't want to talk to my car in the first place, and it probably couldn't hear me anyway with the music loud and the windows down.
I drive a convertible with the top almost always down, and have an unusually deep voice, and also hate talking to phones/cars. With my voice, I could never get Alexa or similar things to work at all- until the last few months when Apple's Siri started working perfectly at recognizing everything I say.
I don't love it, but I have to begrudgingly emit it works, and is safer to use. It works even with the top down on the freeway, and music is auto paused while it listens. I have it on a button so I have to press it first for it to listen, and basically only use it for selecting navigation destinations and music.
I don't love it, but I have to begrudgingly emit it works, and is safer to use. It works even with the top down on the freeway, and music is auto paused while it listens. I have it on a button so I have to press it first for it to listen, and basically only use it for selecting navigation destinations and music.
Owner of a 2017 Peugeot 208 with Apple CarPlay support here. Siri can discriminate voices against loud music and outside noise just fine.
100% this.
The good news is that we're in the majority.
The bad news is hardly anything seems to be done about it. Maybe we should push back more?
I'd happily "vote with my wallet" but it seems all the major auto manufacturers are going this route. Sad.
My car has a little sub menu area on the dash board behind the steering wheel with panels for media, phone, navigation and something else. These can be navigated with the steering wheel buttons.
The climate controls cannot be controlled that way. Really annoying and dangerous to have to tap about on a touchscreen to just turn the fan up or down. Sometimes I'll try to use the voice thing but it rarely works even when I do guess a valid command phrase. At least if I have to drive about with a bug in the car, I should get use out of it!
The climate controls cannot be controlled that way. Really annoying and dangerous to have to tap about on a touchscreen to just turn the fan up or down. Sometimes I'll try to use the voice thing but it rarely works even when I do guess a valid command phrase. At least if I have to drive about with a bug in the car, I should get use out of it!
The three knobs for air temp, air force and outlet were already pretty much perfect for the job.
> The climate controls cannot be controlled that way. Really annoying and dangerous to have to tap about on a touchscreen to just turn the fan up or down.
Other than Tesla, which car manufacturer is stupid enough to put climate control behind a touchscreen?
Other than Tesla, which car manufacturer is stupid enough to put climate control behind a touchscreen?
Which car manufacturers aren't?
Ford: https://youtube.com/shorts/Q512IeZ3DEA
VW: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rALQoMiZhag
Volvo: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ryIfmyiiETQ
BMW: https://youtube.com/watch?v=73zGfLmlx0I
Mercedes: https://youtube.com/shorts/PIO5n1b_Z0Y
Ford: https://youtube.com/shorts/Q512IeZ3DEA
VW: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rALQoMiZhag
Volvo: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ryIfmyiiETQ
BMW: https://youtube.com/watch?v=73zGfLmlx0I
Mercedes: https://youtube.com/shorts/PIO5n1b_Z0Y
We shouldn't have 89-year-old drivers in cars, either. Full stop.
In my city we've had three pedestrian fatalities in less than a year and all the drivers were aged 79 or older.
In my city we've had three pedestrian fatalities in less than a year and all the drivers were aged 79 or older.
Mandatory regular (every 5-10 years) driving tests seem like a no-brainer regardless of age. Also seems like the driving tests should be more stringent.
The UK at least has a driving testing system with months-long backlogs. They're very slowly getting it under control, but they are doing so by providing around 150k tests per month.
There are something like 30 million license holders. Retesting just half of them every 10 years (and rescinding the licences if the rest) would require about doubling the testing throughput. And it would be political suicide - the so-called War on Motorists is a powerful media weapon. It's an obvious idea that would be very helpful, but I can't see it happening. Unless it's an online test affair, which at least could educate on some of the rule changes. I have confidence they could handily bungle that implementation, however.
At the very least, however, I think they should run some anti-lane hogging adverts and enforce that law more, and also make it a duty of heavy vehicles to slow down slightly to permit overtakes, since that's probably cheaper than the billions and billions they're evidently willing to spend on adding hundreds of miles of extra lanes to deal with the lower capacity of roads caused by bad driving.
There are something like 30 million license holders. Retesting just half of them every 10 years (and rescinding the licences if the rest) would require about doubling the testing throughput. And it would be political suicide - the so-called War on Motorists is a powerful media weapon. It's an obvious idea that would be very helpful, but I can't see it happening. Unless it's an online test affair, which at least could educate on some of the rule changes. I have confidence they could handily bungle that implementation, however.
At the very least, however, I think they should run some anti-lane hogging adverts and enforce that law more, and also make it a duty of heavy vehicles to slow down slightly to permit overtakes, since that's probably cheaper than the billions and billions they're evidently willing to spend on adding hundreds of miles of extra lanes to deal with the lower capacity of roads caused by bad driving.
The fact that people who passed the test 40+ years ago barely know the laws that have been introduced since is reason enough for regular retesting.
We could ease into more driver testing by requiring retesting after certain types of incidents - vehicle goes off roadway for no apparent reason, collision in a manner suggesting impairment - but that might rely too much on the discretion of a responding law enforcement officer. Perhaps better to let insurance companies do a carrot/stick approach: discounts for periodic driver retraining/testings, required retesting after an older driver is at-fault in a claim. Disclaimer: am older driver by TFA standards.
Oh no, much more often. People above 70 can deteriorate really, really quickly. I’d say yearly tests which include doctors checkups and actually driving with them.
Anyone can deteriorate quickly. My sister (mid-40s) was in a hospital for 3.5 weeks before Christmas due to an infection that rapidly progressed into sepsis. Even now 2 months later she still needs to use a cane to walk around and is out of breath climbing a single flight of stairs. Bodies are remarkably fragile. From initial onset of symptoms to septic shock was less than 24 hours.
Anyone in principle can, but the elderly actually do.
There is a reason they don’t work anymore, and that they get frequent doctor’s checkups.
If you think the population from age 25-55 deteriorates as quickly as the population over 70 I don’t know what to tell you.
There is a reason they don’t work anymore, and that they get frequent doctor’s checkups.
If you think the population from age 25-55 deteriorates as quickly as the population over 70 I don’t know what to tell you.
It is more a question of frequency. That is, the elderly deteriorate quickly more frequently than younger folks do. Younger folks can still deteriorate quickly under the right circumstances, but at a population level, that is a much lower frequency given that the average younger adult has more resilient immune system and greater muscle mass than someone in their later years.
Heck, I'm in reasonably good health, but if I get hit by a car crossing the road this evening, I could deteriorate quickly overnight due to injuries and be dead tomorrow. It's just less likely for me than it is for an elderly person that has poor vision and moves slowly while crossing the road as I am more likely to be able to spot a hazard and move out of the way.
Heck, I'm in reasonably good health, but if I get hit by a car crossing the road this evening, I could deteriorate quickly overnight due to injuries and be dead tomorrow. It's just less likely for me than it is for an elderly person that has poor vision and moves slowly while crossing the road as I am more likely to be able to spot a hazard and move out of the way.
Exactly. Lots of instable mental health conditions that make driving unsafe(mood disorders, schizophrenia, etc) can onset in people's 20s with almost no warning, as well.
A decent traumatic brain injury can happen at any time and most people never go to the doctor for those, too.
A decent traumatic brain injury can happen at any time and most people never go to the doctor for those, too.
Yes a million times to this! It is crazy that you never have to retake your drivers license.
At least make them pass a road test. Make sure they can operate the car safely at the posted speed limit. Give them a vision test, maybe limit them to daytime driving. Some 90 year olds are fine to drive, but I agree many are not. And driving around 10-20 mph under the limit is a hazard in itself.
> At least make them pass a road test. Make sure they can operate the car safely at the posted speed limit.
... and perform 3 controls-based actions (ex: climate adjustment, audio).
The testee commonly provides their own car for OTR tests. If they drive a model with physical controls, it could better for everyone.
... and perform 3 controls-based actions (ex: climate adjustment, audio).
The testee commonly provides their own car for OTR tests. If they drive a model with physical controls, it could better for everyone.
Previously it was a political 3rd rail to even suggest a maximum driving age. "You can't take my freedom to travel!!".
But now, with Uber/Lyft/Waymo and all the other options, it seems much more reasonable to implement such a thing. Why do we have to wait for someone to cause an accident before we take their license?
But now, with Uber/Lyft/Waymo and all the other options, it seems much more reasonable to implement such a thing. Why do we have to wait for someone to cause an accident before we take their license?
> Uber/Lyft/Waymo and all the other options
You mean taxis?
You mean taxis?
You are greatly understating the value and improvement that these services brought. Especially around accessibility.
In the city I grew up in taking a taxi was basically not an option. You can now typically get a ride from Uber or Lyft within 10 minutes.
In the city I moved to for college there were plenty of Taxis but could take 30+ minutes for one to show up, or maybe it would never show up and you’d have to call another company and hope they would eventually send someone to you.
These are anecdotes, but the massive increase in for-hire rides after these companies were introduced does show that they did improve the experience and made for-hire rides more accessible and appealing.
In the city I grew up in taking a taxi was basically not an option. You can now typically get a ride from Uber or Lyft within 10 minutes.
In the city I moved to for college there were plenty of Taxis but could take 30+ minutes for one to show up, or maybe it would never show up and you’d have to call another company and hope they would eventually send someone to you.
These are anecdotes, but the massive increase in for-hire rides after these companies were introduced does show that they did improve the experience and made for-hire rides more accessible and appealing.
> But now, with Uber/Lyft/Waymo and all the other options, it seems much more reasonable to implement such a thing.
Most octagenarians cannot afford to use these on a daily basis.
Heck, most of the country cannot afford to use these on a daily basis.
Most octagenarians cannot afford to use these on a daily basis.
Heck, most of the country cannot afford to use these on a daily basis.
They shouldn't have to. They had their entire adult lives to build a society where you don't need a car, a society welcoming and useful to the old, the young, the disabled, and the poor. And they blew it!
A lot of cities are subsidizing ride share for the elderly, because it's still cheaper than running shuttles for the elderly, which is what they used to do.
We don't even. Again in my city an octogenarian ran over two pedestrians in separate incidents a week apart, and nobody even suggested taking away their car.
Depends on the 89 year old. Some are as sharp as a tack, while others don't have a clue where they are let alone what they are currently doing. If you don't understand that, you clearly need to widen the range of people you interact with beyond your day to day experiences thus far in life.
I am in the middle of watching my own parents age, and it is eye opening. We have checks and balances in various systems exactly because there is a wide range of capabilities in the elderly. Where I live it is mandatory for drivers to be tested regularly once they hit 80, or at even earlier ages in the event of an accident or other precipitating event. This can include recommendation by doctors, social workers or even police. This works without needlessly discriminating against individuals.
I am in the middle of watching my own parents age, and it is eye opening. We have checks and balances in various systems exactly because there is a wide range of capabilities in the elderly. Where I live it is mandatory for drivers to be tested regularly once they hit 80, or at even earlier ages in the event of an accident or other precipitating event. This can include recommendation by doctors, social workers or even police. This works without needlessly discriminating against individuals.
100% agree.
The only counterpoint to this - when it comes to interacting with managing audio and navigation, the alternatives to a touchscreen are probably more dangerous. Maybe the worst offender was Lexus who offered a mouse pointer in lieu of touchscreen until quite recently.
But I agree that there should be a federally mandated set of commonly-used buttons while driving that have to be tactile - windows, HVAC, audio, etc.
But I agree that there should be a federally mandated set of commonly-used buttons while driving that have to be tactile - windows, HVAC, audio, etc.
>when it comes to interacting with managing audio and navigation
Depends what you mean by managing audio - 90% of my audio interaction is adjusting volume and pressing the next/previous buttons. All easily done on my steering wheel buttons, though there are buttons near the radio to do the same thing (though they are capacitive buttons that are barely better than a touchscreen). I recently discovered that the "mute" button on the steering wheel is actually a "pause" button which is perfect since I rarely want to actually mute audio, but just pause it.
Depends what you mean by managing audio - 90% of my audio interaction is adjusting volume and pressing the next/previous buttons. All easily done on my steering wheel buttons, though there are buttons near the radio to do the same thing (though they are capacitive buttons that are barely better than a touchscreen). I recently discovered that the "mute" button on the steering wheel is actually a "pause" button which is perfect since I rarely want to actually mute audio, but just pause it.
We do lots of long roadtrips with the kids. So switching between child specific playlists or audiobooks is something we have to do.
Android Auto was honestly a game changer. Good voice controls, minimum distractions, and if you do have to interact with it it's fairly minimal.
Android Auto was honestly a game changer. Good voice controls, minimum distractions, and if you do have to interact with it it's fairly minimal.
I’ve not used the mouse pointer but the previous models had a rotary encoder which is easier to work with. What isn’t mentioned is that there are hardware controls on the steering wheel for volume, next previous etc so you don’t need to interact with things very much
Hardware controls are not useful if you listen to lots of audiobooks/podcasts/etc.
I guess the missing context here is how long the podcasts/playlist is vs how long your journey will take. I can see it being an issue if they are short, in a mixed order and you need to skip ahead etc.
I've a habit of stopping every two hours on longer journeys for a rest so that's when I would organise content for the next leg of the trip.
I've a habit of stopping every two hours on longer journeys for a rest so that's when I would organise content for the next leg of the trip.
> Hardware controls are not useful if you listen to lots of audiobooks/podcasts/etc.
Presently, that's what I exclusively listen to. I get in my car and the narration auto-starts where it left off. I occasionally adjust the physical volume knob. I tweak the library at home every couple of months.
Presently, that's what I exclusively listen to. I get in my car and the narration auto-starts where it left off. I occasionally adjust the physical volume knob. I tweak the library at home every couple of months.
Lock the screen while the car is not in "Park".
Fucking around with your stereo while driving has never been safe.
> Fraking around with your stereo while driving has never been safe.
I offer it depends on the stereo. My radio adjusts are rarely more than a single button push and/or a knob tweak. Eyes aren't required.
I offer it depends on the stereo. My radio adjusts are rarely more than a single button push and/or a knob tweak. Eyes aren't required.
Too late. Tesla has set the example of removing the turn signal and drive selector stalks. I believe there is a law that the emergency flashers need a physical control, which is why teslas have a dedicated button.
I think we smoothly transitioned from touchscreens in cars being a luxury signifier, to them being both pretty cheap and STILL kind of a luxury signifier, though to a smaller extent nowadays.
Some really nice haptics could mitigate this somewhat, but by the time you succeed at that where others have failed, why not just give me a knob.
I wonder if Gen Alpha will prefer pure touchscreen controls in cars.
Preference is irrelevant. It's demonstrably dangerous. Maybe Gen Alpha will also prefer cars without functioning headlights, but those are thankfully banned.
The youngest in gen alpha are just being born, there's a real chance they may not learn to drive at all because self driving is ubiquitous.
> there's a real chance they may not learn to drive at all because self driving is ubiquitous.
I don't see unattended self-driving becoming the norm during the next 20 years. I'm skeptical it'll happen in 50 years.
There are an uncountable number of non-foreseeable driving events and road conditions. I believe we'd have to rethink/redesign roads to adjust to limitations of FSD.
Past that: A top reason for late teens not driving now is parents can't afford car insurance rates that approach their housing costs.
I don't see unattended self-driving becoming the norm during the next 20 years. I'm skeptical it'll happen in 50 years.
There are an uncountable number of non-foreseeable driving events and road conditions. I believe we'd have to rethink/redesign roads to adjust to limitations of FSD.
Past that: A top reason for late teens not driving now is parents can't afford car insurance rates that approach their housing costs.
100% agree
While I much prefer physical buttons, I do think gestures could be made to work.
This would require a level of polish and sophistication that I have no reason to suspect car manufacturers would ever by capable of. I can only imagine making some sort of awkward swiping gesture while frequently glancing at the screen to verify that it worked.
I'm forced to quote from The Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy:
"A loud clatter of gunk music flooded through the Heart of Gold cabin as Zaphod searched the sub-etha radio wave bands for news of himself. The machine was rather difficult to operate. For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive--you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope. It saved a lot of muscular expenditure, of course, but meant that you had to sit infuriatingly still if you wanted to keep listening to the same program."
As a side note, the F-35 has a touchscreen interface that has been described as difficult to use when the jet is in motion.
"A loud clatter of gunk music flooded through the Heart of Gold cabin as Zaphod searched the sub-etha radio wave bands for news of himself. The machine was rather difficult to operate. For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive--you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope. It saved a lot of muscular expenditure, of course, but meant that you had to sit infuriatingly still if you wanted to keep listening to the same program."
As a side note, the F-35 has a touchscreen interface that has been described as difficult to use when the jet is in motion.
I wonder if the touchscreen was a factor in recent crashes? They never say more than "in-flight malfunction."
I believe BMW just got rid of gesture controls, which they've had for a long time in the past month.
Tactile feedback is still a big issue with gestures. With a physical button you can feel that you have hit the button, can easily find it by touch if you missed it, and you can feel that you successfully actuated it. All of those are difficult on touch surfaces. Not insurmountable, but you have to put a lot of effort into things you get for free with physical interfaces
That's true, especially with haptic feedback being unviable in a car.
Let’s start by making gestures preferable to buttons while sitting on a couch to control the TV channel okay buddy
This seems to be an real and important problem with capacitive touch screens. My elderly mother is often unable to make a touch register on recent Apple devices when a touch appears to have clearly happened and with reasonable force. She blames it on her fingers being "numb" but there genuinely seems to be a problem unrelated to her actions. (I've used the devices in question, and they appear to be fine. This is not an issue where she is not touching the device with her skin or a situation where the device is dirty.)
Same thing with my octogenarian grandmother, her fingertips are often so dry the screen does not register the touch; she has arthritis and poor vision so hand-eye targeting is poor with the tiny touch areas many apps have even on a tablet; the lack of any tactile feedback exacerbates these issues, people this age didn't grow up with capacitive touch screens and the lack of sensation after an action is alien to them. She finds the iPad extremely frustrating.
What I found more surprising is that voice control isn't the solution, either. She is very reluctant to talk to Siri because it feels to her like there is an actual person there and she doesn't want to bother them. It would actually be better for her if you could choose a more robotic voice for Siri to make it seem more like a machine.
Not looking forward to getting older and having to interact with the brave new world that Big Tech will be bringing us. With some manufacturers you can't even drive a car without using a touchscreen -_-
What I found more surprising is that voice control isn't the solution, either. She is very reluctant to talk to Siri because it feels to her like there is an actual person there and she doesn't want to bother them. It would actually be better for her if you could choose a more robotic voice for Siri to make it seem more like a machine.
Not looking forward to getting older and having to interact with the brave new world that Big Tech will be bringing us. With some manufacturers you can't even drive a car without using a touchscreen -_-
I won't use Siri or voice interfaces either. Just dislike them.
It was a topic here on HN before.
Consensus was, it has to do with the moisture of the skin. Older people have drier skin, so worse touchscreen response.
Consensus was, it has to do with the moisture of the skin. Older people have drier skin, so worse touchscreen response.
Late 50s in age. I notice it occasionally. I don't think my skin is particularly dry, but don't know where the threshold is on these devices.
Early 50s.
I believe it to be a combination of dryer skin, poorer circulation, and calloused fingertips.
It’s incredibly frustrating. I didn’t really have a problem until this year.
I believe it to be a combination of dryer skin, poorer circulation, and calloused fingertips.
It’s incredibly frustrating. I didn’t really have a problem until this year.
I worked for a company that used a touchscreen, with a user population that skewed older. We thought it was poor circulation, not just dry skin.
Blood circulation?
That might be the reason for less moisture, but the physical reason for the sensor not registering would be rather a lack of moisture (so no current), I believe.
That might be the reason for less moisture, but the physical reason for the sensor not registering would be rather a lack of moisture (so no current), I believe.
Mom is almost 82. Just bought her an iPad to try because the computer was getting difficult to use with her essential tremor. Setting it up was a nightmare because I didn't spend the money for a model with face id. She had to keep touching(but not clicking!) the fingerprint reading button on the side. Training her fingerprint was also a nightmare because of Apple's surprisingly bad decision to require you to click a pop-up dialog whenever you fail to position your finger properly, unlike Android where you just try again.
I think the touchscreen was the least of her problems. A virtual keyboard with bigger keys would be nice. Not sure if that's an option on Apple though.
I'm not convinced she'll have much luck with the iPad, so if anyone has suggestions for an elderly person to stay connected, let me know.
I think the touchscreen was the least of her problems. A virtual keyboard with bigger keys would be nice. Not sure if that's an option on Apple though.
I'm not convinced she'll have much luck with the iPad, so if anyone has suggestions for an elderly person to stay connected, let me know.
Newer versions of ios actually have an elderly mode, assistive access, in the accessibility settings that might be of help here
I am glad that she's still managing okay despite her ET. Kudos to you for helping her navigate which interfaces she can use now.
My father's ET makes me terrified of gradually losing my own ability to interact with any technology as I become his age and as interfaces "progress".
I am always surprised the extent to which "accessibility" does not include people with poor fine motor control.
My father's ET makes me terrified of gradually losing my own ability to interact with any technology as I become his age and as interfaces "progress".
I am always surprised the extent to which "accessibility" does not include people with poor fine motor control.
maybe in the accessibility settings for bigger keys
I'm not yet "elderly " -- contrary to what a troublingly large fraction of younger software developers seem to believe -- but I do have occasional issues with touch screens, for several reasons.
They behave unreliability when I use the fingers on my left hand. I play guitar, so I assume that callouses are the issue. Older folks often have calloused finger tips; it's somewhat inevitable.
I often make or repair things, as well as work in my yard. At the very least, this often renders fingerprint recognition useless for days or sometimes weeks at a time. Sometimes my finger tips get scuffed enough that it affects touch screen use, too. I wear gloves when I can, but that is its own issue. "Screen friendly" work gloves don't stay that way for long, and aren't great anyway.
I also live in a northern area, so for about half the year humidity is very low. Even drinking plenty, and using moisturizer, my skin gets dry enough sometimes to make screens unresponsive.
Of course, we also get actual winter here. Even the best "screen friendly" gloves I've tried have been mid at best, just as with work gloves. Certainly not good enough to rely on.
They behave unreliability when I use the fingers on my left hand. I play guitar, so I assume that callouses are the issue. Older folks often have calloused finger tips; it's somewhat inevitable.
I often make or repair things, as well as work in my yard. At the very least, this often renders fingerprint recognition useless for days or sometimes weeks at a time. Sometimes my finger tips get scuffed enough that it affects touch screen use, too. I wear gloves when I can, but that is its own issue. "Screen friendly" work gloves don't stay that way for long, and aren't great anyway.
I also live in a northern area, so for about half the year humidity is very low. Even drinking plenty, and using moisturizer, my skin gets dry enough sometimes to make screens unresponsive.
Of course, we also get actual winter here. Even the best "screen friendly" gloves I've tried have been mid at best, just as with work gloves. Certainly not good enough to rely on.
Consumer Reports refers to it as "zombie finger syndrome" (https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/06/zombie-fing...) so it seems to be fairly common.
A rather expensive workaround is an Apple Pencil on the iPad Pro but it's out of reach for most people.
A rather expensive workaround is an Apple Pencil on the iPad Pro but it's out of reach for most people.
I get the same problem when I work in the garden digging a lot. The skin gets thick and dry and touch screens start behaving strange. Not that I can't use them, but like the centre of the tap has an offset.
I have a similar problem and I honestly only notice it on Apple devices.
Android and other random touchscreens seem fine, but my iPad can be a nightmare. I have to touch things multiple times for it to register. The fingerprint reader on there also hates me.
Android and other random touchscreens seem fine, but my iPad can be a nightmare. I have to touch things multiple times for it to register. The fingerprint reader on there also hates me.
I frequently have problems with some touch screens, because my fingers are too dry. Seems like some touch screens are better, i.e. I don't notice it at all, and some are intolerably bad.
sounds like a stylus might help her interact with the phone better? they’re very cheap and they sell some larger ones that are easy to hold.
my 70-something parents both struggle and have to resort - not without disappointment and sadness - to capacitive pens
Also those damnable single button interfaces to earbuds, vapes, etc.
Older people can have trouble double clicking, it's even more difficult for them to "click 5 times rapidly", and to remember exactly where they are in a UI that has almost no outputs.
Hopefully as Gen-X ages, we'll see more thought put into this problem.
Older people can have trouble double clicking, it's even more difficult for them to "click 5 times rapidly", and to remember exactly where they are in a UI that has almost no outputs.
Hopefully as Gen-X ages, we'll see more thought put into this problem.
Not defending the interfaces here, they do suck, but the elderly definitely aren't the target market for vapes. It's not unsurprising that they're not designed with them in mind.
I know a couple of older people who smoke marijuana for pain/relaxation.
You are correct though, they're not the target market. I would like to see some of the more modern conveniences redesigned though. Perhaps I can win the lottery and start a business for that need. Kind of like the bras and shirts with magnetic clasps for people with limited mobility.
You are correct though, they're not the target market. I would like to see some of the more modern conveniences redesigned though. Perhaps I can win the lottery and start a business for that need. Kind of like the bras and shirts with magnetic clasps for people with limited mobility.
I believe taking vape off the table leaves the parent's assertion unchallenged.
I've never vaped and I run into complex button schemes regularly.
I've never vaped and I run into complex button schemes regularly.
The iPhone has settings for physical button click speed for this reason. It's not just the elderly, but really any sort of motor difficulty. It takes a lot of force!
My newer car has a touch screen for the radio channels, and I experience frequent difficulty changing the channels. This becomes impossible when I'm wearing gloves, which of course is often in a Midwest winter.
A guy I work with had some Dodge compact car and he said the touchscreen wouldn't even function (as in no video) until the car warmed up.
> he said the touchscreen wouldn't even function (as in no video) until the car warmed up.
In 1980, imagine a model that had inoperable controls until the engine warmed up. Owners would hammer their dealership until it was resolved.
My take is that buyers are more timid when confronted by excess tech - and less likely to hold carmakers/dealers accountable for a crap product. I think that would feel like meth to an CEO.
In 1980, imagine a model that had inoperable controls until the engine warmed up. Owners would hammer their dealership until it was resolved.
My take is that buyers are more timid when confronted by excess tech - and less likely to hold carmakers/dealers accountable for a crap product. I think that would feel like meth to an CEO.
Sounds like we need to update the meme. Designed by young engineers in California for use by young engineers in California.
I keep a cheap stylus in the car in winter.
I'm an older adult that's worked on touch interfaces and whatnot.
I don't blame the touch mechanism as much as I blame all the UX designers that adopted Material design schemas and their descendents. Bad layouts, unreadable fonts, horrible color schemes and literally NO contrast between type and background. It's apparent that none of this was tested on older users.
Apple is just as guilty of this. If you switch your iPhone into high contrast mode with thicker font weights it helps, but it wasn't necessary back in the early days of iOS.
I don't blame the touch mechanism as much as I blame all the UX designers that adopted Material design schemas and their descendents. Bad layouts, unreadable fonts, horrible color schemes and literally NO contrast between type and background. It's apparent that none of this was tested on older users.
Apple is just as guilty of this. If you switch your iPhone into high contrast mode with thicker font weights it helps, but it wasn't necessary back in the early days of iOS.
Gnome with Enlightenment back in 1999 had configurable window decorations. If you wanted a border around a window that was a few pixels wider and easier to land a mouse on, you could do that.
Naturally all of that functionality was thrown out when the Gnome project did a total rewrite that was "going to make everything better" and "fix all of the problems" they ran into in the first version.
Naturally all of that functionality was thrown out when the Gnome project did a total rewrite that was "going to make everything better" and "fix all of the problems" they ran into in the first version.
2026: Car makers include a moist page-turning-sponge on dashboard cluster
I know most people just buy what is available but I hope there's continued pushback on touch screens in cars. They're terrible.
Has there ever been a product segment that has removed "innovative" features because of consumer pushback? Asking in good faith, I hope it's happened, but I can't think of anything.
I think touchscreens are great in cars as long as they aren't used to replace physical controls. I bought a new Ford Maverick last year and it follows this guidance well. I can still do all the important stuff like skip tracks, tune the radio, change volume, all from both the steering wheel and a cluster of physical knobs and buttons below the touchscreen.
The touchscreen is useful for less common and more intricate tasks like GPS navigation.
The touchscreen is useful for less common and more intricate tasks like GPS navigation.
Airplane cockpits and avionics are an interesting case where complex inputs are required and, to a very great extent, touchscreens are not used but rather both physical controls and where multiple options are necessary, physical keyboards.
(There are instances of aviation-certified touchscreens, see "Thales integrated touchscreen becomes the world's first product of its kind to gain EASA certification" <https://onboard.thalesgroup.com/thales-integrated-touchscree...> (2019), used in the Airbus A350, also "FAA Approves Commercial Touch Screen Display" <https://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/faa-approves-comm...> (2015), for the Beechcraft King Air.)
One might think that auto manufacturers could learn from this.
And, mind, I'm of the opinion that if you have to type to control your automobile then someone designed that automobile incorrectly.
(There are instances of aviation-certified touchscreens, see "Thales integrated touchscreen becomes the world's first product of its kind to gain EASA certification" <https://onboard.thalesgroup.com/thales-integrated-touchscree...> (2019), used in the Airbus A350, also "FAA Approves Commercial Touch Screen Display" <https://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/faa-approves-comm...> (2015), for the Beechcraft King Air.)
One might think that auto manufacturers could learn from this.
And, mind, I'm of the opinion that if you have to type to control your automobile then someone designed that automobile incorrectly.
I have a few points here
1. It takes a lot more training to learn to fly an aircraft, in part because the controls are so complex and specialized.
2. I'm not expecting to need to type while driving. But when my car is parked, there is no real downside to just letting me use an on-screen keyboard to punch in the address for my next destination. Anything other than a keyboard would frankly require too much re-learning, and I'm not convinced would actually be safer.
3. An airplane cockpit does not need to accommodate third party software, the controls are all designed with a specific intended purpose. Stuff like CarPlay and Android Auto need UX that can adapt to fit the needs of whatever software the user wants to run on them. A touchscreen accomplishes this quite elegantly.
1. It takes a lot more training to learn to fly an aircraft, in part because the controls are so complex and specialized.
2. I'm not expecting to need to type while driving. But when my car is parked, there is no real downside to just letting me use an on-screen keyboard to punch in the address for my next destination. Anything other than a keyboard would frankly require too much re-learning, and I'm not convinced would actually be safer.
3. An airplane cockpit does not need to accommodate third party software, the controls are all designed with a specific intended purpose. Stuff like CarPlay and Android Auto need UX that can adapt to fit the needs of whatever software the user wants to run on them. A touchscreen accomplishes this quite elegantly.
[deleted]
Legislation (fairly unlikely in the US under present trends) or massive and compelling lawsuits and settlements are far more likely to generate results.
I'm going to mention again the 1967 interview by Studs Terkel of Ralph Nader in which Nader details a prior round of reforms, largely involving safety, and the automobile industry:
<https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/programs/ralph-nader-discusses-...>
Direct audio <https://s3.amazonaws.com/wfmt-studs-terkel/published/11364.m...> (MP3)
As much advances as have been made, the dynamics which lead to Nader's initial campaign are still intrinsic to the capitalist-market model, and the behaviours are highly evident not only in the automobile industry but the high-tech world and much of the rest of industry as well.
(The Studs Terkel broadcast and archive at WFMT/Chicago are both absolute gems of the current Internet: <https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/>. This is a compilation of forty-five years worth of near-daily interviews with artists, activists, politicians, and most of all, ordinary people, Studs's true subject and audience.)
I'm going to mention again the 1967 interview by Studs Terkel of Ralph Nader in which Nader details a prior round of reforms, largely involving safety, and the automobile industry:
<https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/programs/ralph-nader-discusses-...>
Direct audio <https://s3.amazonaws.com/wfmt-studs-terkel/published/11364.m...> (MP3)
As much advances as have been made, the dynamics which lead to Nader's initial campaign are still intrinsic to the capitalist-market model, and the behaviours are highly evident not only in the automobile industry but the high-tech world and much of the rest of industry as well.
(The Studs Terkel broadcast and archive at WFMT/Chicago are both absolute gems of the current Internet: <https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/>. This is a compilation of forty-five years worth of near-daily interviews with artists, activists, politicians, and most of all, ordinary people, Studs's true subject and audience.)
One thing to add to this, it's amazing that in 2025 voice assistants still suck so badly. You'd think this is a problem AI could finally nip in the bud.
But even giving my phone the dumbest of instructions will result in an agonizing back and forth where it doesn't hear me quite right and constantly has to repeat back things.
Heaven forbid you ask the phone to do anything useful like change a setting or pull up directions for you. You will be unceremoniously dumped out of the conversation and into some sort of hellish afterthought experience.
But even giving my phone the dumbest of instructions will result in an agonizing back and forth where it doesn't hear me quite right and constantly has to repeat back things.
Heaven forbid you ask the phone to do anything useful like change a setting or pull up directions for you. You will be unceremoniously dumped out of the conversation and into some sort of hellish afterthought experience.
I ski a lot and wear headphones for music and to take any emergency calls. I use siri to ask “What time is it?” 50:50 whether or not it works. This has been my experience for as long as siri has existed and I have kept up to date on hw and sw. I only stick with it because pulling the phone out in the cold is even more annoying than having to repeat the long press and myself. Don’t get me started on a question that simple needing an internet connection… because I’m excluding that error case.
Siri was better in the past while driving, and actually helpful at times. Nowadays it demands that I unlock my phone. My mistake? My car doesn't have Car Play. I drove a rental last week and Car Play was far more cooperative. Sadly, it appears that I am being punished because I don't happen to be able to replace my car as often as I upgrade my phone.
"Pull up directions" is something I feel my phone is extremely good at. What phone are you using?
It downright sucks when the local pronunciation isn't accepted by Siri. In Ottawa we pronounce St. Laurent Boulevard as the French do - "cent lorann", yet Siri only accepts the sourthern style American pronunciation of "saynt lawrence". This happens for a whole lot of place names in eastern Ontario given the bilingual nature of the national capital region.
Localization is not a solved problem.
Localization is not a solved problem.
Most of my current wants from devices, and mobile computing, overlap quite nicely with what aging communities need from their devices. Sunlight readable displays, buttons that are distinguishable by feeling alone (ever seen the button variety in the cockpit of jet fighters!!!), and the ability to customize outputs in a sane manner that isn't full of twelve layer deep menus of vague options that change with each software update.
My son thinks it is magic that I can reach into my bag and pull out exactly what I want without looking. He didn't exactly grow up on touch screens, but I think about how much more tactile my life was as a child compared to his. It is night and day.
I believe part of the issue is lawmakers are still dazzled by tech and they over-assume it can improve things.
I think that's why we
I think that's why we
1) have questionable, federal mandates for automatic breaking and
2) have feds who can't seem to associate distracted driver incidents with in-dash screens.
[deleted]
This is not limited to just cars, lower to mid range mobile phones have touch sensors to unlock phones - they also struggle with dry old skins.
The smart watches also struggle when used for measuring ECG or blood pressure.
That is just one aspect - older people are most hindered by the UI design in my opinion, the buttons below the fold and not obvious coz they are not visible and when they are filling some form, they just don't know what to do after filling couple of boxes.
That's just one example.
The recent development in vision LLMs show decent promise and I think we might have to augment touch with voice controls even for handled phones.
Old people won't know where the setting to turn off usb debugging is but a LLM knows and can also see things and understand, it should be able to help them.
The smart watches also struggle when used for measuring ECG or blood pressure.
That is just one aspect - older people are most hindered by the UI design in my opinion, the buttons below the fold and not obvious coz they are not visible and when they are filling some form, they just don't know what to do after filling couple of boxes.
That's just one example.
The recent development in vision LLMs show decent promise and I think we might have to augment touch with voice controls even for handled phones.
Old people won't know where the setting to turn off usb debugging is but a LLM knows and can also see things and understand, it should be able to help them.
I really like my Mazda's UI: touchpad is disabled while driving, everything is accessible by joystick/dial.
I only wish they would use hal effect joystick, less scratchy one.
"had to press a touch screen button to get information while driving"
I think that putting touch screens and foregoing physical feedback is the issue, and not old people.
I think that putting touch screens and foregoing physical feedback is the issue, and not old people.
I have slight nerve issues that make precise double tap gestures difficult. One of the reasons I switched to an iPhone is the accessibility features are quite good and let me work around the issues I have more easily. Given how many older people I see who have the same issue I have but worse, I can imagine this is a very common problem for a lot of people.
Still using my FiiO X3 dearly instead of the phone for music. Why? It has six buttons I can recognise by touch, I don't even have to look at it to change song or navigate its menus.
n=17 (7 older adults). Fairly useless, IMO.
Having said that, I believe it's been very well documented that touch screens in cars are less usable than the button equivalents, and likely affect driving safety. The only new thing in this study is that it's just worse for older people. (Not that younger people are not impacted).
Having said that, I believe it's been very well documented that touch screens in cars are less usable than the button equivalents, and likely affect driving safety. The only new thing in this study is that it's just worse for older people. (Not that younger people are not impacted).
Older people have dryer hands. My mother in law has trouble with her phone all the time because of this.
A vaguely related story:
I had to get my fingerprints taken to volunteer at my kids school. They use a touchscreen device to take the fingerprints, and it kept failing. Mind you I was only about 44 at the time, so not exactly elderly.
The teenager working the counter says to me, "Oh yeah, that happens to old people a lot, you'll just have keep trying". The sting of calling me old was real.
She gave me some hand lotion and after about three more tries it finally read my prints.
A vaguely related story:
I had to get my fingerprints taken to volunteer at my kids school. They use a touchscreen device to take the fingerprints, and it kept failing. Mind you I was only about 44 at the time, so not exactly elderly.
The teenager working the counter says to me, "Oh yeah, that happens to old people a lot, you'll just have keep trying". The sting of calling me old was real.
She gave me some hand lotion and after about three more tries it finally read my prints.
[deleted]
NHSTA must not have much of a human factors / UX group. Given the vast disparity of driving experiences in rented cars there must not be much in the way of regulation either.
Big government indeed.
Big government indeed.
People misunderstand what NHTSA actually does. The core of NHTSA's job is to manage FMVSS (what makes a vehicle legal) and investigate safety issues in production vehicles. They don't approve vehicles in any way that matters here, and they avoid telling manufacturers how to do things properly. They also don't meaningfully regulate software or system usability. Those are left up to industry norms and "market forces" until deficiencies are so severe that there's significant evidence for a safety risk in production vehicles.
They must have some research going into touchscreen enhanced distracted driving. But I guess they must not have gathered enough data pointing that way, or something?
I was at NHTSA a decade ago. They were in talks to acquire a petabyte-size collection of videos of drivers' faces to study distraction, but there was no funding for a system that could hold it, so it never happened.
Unsure of what happened with that initiative, but I hope it gets revived. Today there are many great options for efficiently analyzing video. Storage is also cheaper.
Side Note: Last night I was driving home behind a guy whose phone was mounted to his dashboard and was playing some video on YouTube. While maneuvering to pass by him, I could clearly see his eyes locked on the phone screen instead of the road. At least with Android, maybe Google could create a safety feature that prevents both Maps and YouTube from running simultaneously.
Unsure of what happened with that initiative, but I hope it gets revived. Today there are many great options for efficiently analyzing video. Storage is also cheaper.
Side Note: Last night I was driving home behind a guy whose phone was mounted to his dashboard and was playing some video on YouTube. While maneuvering to pass by him, I could clearly see his eyes locked on the phone screen instead of the road. At least with Android, maybe Google could create a safety feature that prevents both Maps and YouTube from running simultaneously.
Predictable objection: what if I'm a passenger and want to watch YouTube but the driver doesn't have a phone so we need to use Maps also.
If there's a failure here, then the private sector also failed, you know.
[0] This is the complaint I have with my wife's Honda Civic. If I want to do something as simple as turn on the fan but turn off the AC, it means navigating into a sub menu and correctly hitting one of several choices on a touch screen.