Trump administration to fire thousands at health agencies(statnews.com)
statnews.com
Trump administration to fire thousands at health agencies
https://www.statnews.com/2025/02/14/federal-employee-layoffs-at-hhs-cdc-on-first-day-robert-kennedy-health-secretary/
53 comments
Schools and libraries too.
In my state (Idaho) there "seems" to be a big push to defund and disrupt the local school systems, libraries [1] and community college board of trustees [2].
There is also legislation that keeps attempting to be pushed to allow public funding to parents who have their kids in private schools [3]
This is all part of the "Redoubt" movement [4]. Which sadly...even though I am living literally in the same town as some of the major players I had never heard of it until a friend from Germany sent me a link.
I later realized it all made sense when you look at everything as a distinct "movement" instead of "motivated individuals" who were disrupting all these public services.
[1] https://cdapress.com/news/2024/jul/05/my-turn-are-we-losing-... [2] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/governance/accreditation... [3] https://idahoea.org/news/competing-voucher-proposals-first-b... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Redoubt
In my state (Idaho) there "seems" to be a big push to defund and disrupt the local school systems, libraries [1] and community college board of trustees [2].
There is also legislation that keeps attempting to be pushed to allow public funding to parents who have their kids in private schools [3]
This is all part of the "Redoubt" movement [4]. Which sadly...even though I am living literally in the same town as some of the major players I had never heard of it until a friend from Germany sent me a link.
I later realized it all made sense when you look at everything as a distinct "movement" instead of "motivated individuals" who were disrupting all these public services.
[1] https://cdapress.com/news/2024/jul/05/my-turn-are-we-losing-... [2] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/governance/accreditation... [3] https://idahoea.org/news/competing-voucher-proposals-first-b... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Redoubt
Looks like its not just health-related agencies. Many/most people hired by US government agencies in the last two years seem to be being let-go. Some of them will be tech workers, but also engineers, scientists, clinicians, administrators, rangers, educators. People who use this site.
"Some 280,000 employees out of the 2.3 million member civilian federal workforce were hired in the last two years, with most still on probation and easier to fire, according to government data."
"About 1,200 to 2,000 workers at the Department of Energy were laid off, including hundreds of employees from the office that oversees the nuclear stockpile, sources familiar with the matter told Reuters on Friday."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/thousands-fired-trump-musk-...
Looks like absolute carnage, and its hard to see how the US government is going to maintain its operational capacity. As for the CDC being gutted, better hope these bird flu and measles outbreaks don't do a covid.
"Some 280,000 employees out of the 2.3 million member civilian federal workforce were hired in the last two years, with most still on probation and easier to fire, according to government data."
"About 1,200 to 2,000 workers at the Department of Energy were laid off, including hundreds of employees from the office that oversees the nuclear stockpile, sources familiar with the matter told Reuters on Friday."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/thousands-fired-trump-musk-...
Looks like absolute carnage, and its hard to see how the US government is going to maintain its operational capacity. As for the CDC being gutted, better hope these bird flu and measles outbreaks don't do a covid.
What a blood bath.
> As for the CDC being gutted, better hope these bird flu and measles outbreaks don't do a covid.
With RFK in the lead would it honestly matter how many staff they have?
> As for the CDC being gutted, better hope these bird flu and measles outbreaks don't do a covid.
With RFK in the lead would it honestly matter how many staff they have?
Dude has been department head for a day? Do we have such little faith that we judge a person before a single stroke of the pen? While historical actions do speak loud, having a bad past does not mean you are a bad person. Nor does it mean your policies will reflect your personal beliefs. There have been tons of individuals who set aside their beliefs and done a fantastic job.
We're supposed to withhold judgment on somebody who has directly led to the deaths of several dozen children? Are you really implying there is no one who is better qualified to lead HHS?
Does it sound like I am suggesting that? That's certainly not my question. I don't think RFK should be anywhere near anything. But he is. So the only option is to accept that, and hold off judging someone until bad policies are released.
It's entirely possible RFK feels extreme regret for such incident and wishes to help prevent it from happening again. It's also entirely possible RFK will do a decent job, just like it's possible he will be replaced in 6 months.
There is some validity in his comments, US is not healthy, there is extreme dietary issues, lack of exercise and eating terribly is rampant. But nobody complained about any other department head for not trying to solve that issue. But his past is very loudly negative.
It's entirely possible RFK feels extreme regret for such incident and wishes to help prevent it from happening again. It's also entirely possible RFK will do a decent job, just like it's possible he will be replaced in 6 months.
There is some validity in his comments, US is not healthy, there is extreme dietary issues, lack of exercise and eating terribly is rampant. But nobody complained about any other department head for not trying to solve that issue. But his past is very loudly negative.
We can always update our priors if we're proven wrong about these people. What's wrong with having expectations?
Somebody must have had an expectation, otherwise how were they selected? Why do we keep hearing over and over that they need forgiveness?
Somebody must have had an expectation, otherwise how were they selected? Why do we keep hearing over and over that they need forgiveness?
Let’s hold off on judging the bull we just released in the china shop unitl he has time to wander around in there for a while.
That's an interesting analogy. If I recall correctly, Mythbusters put a bull in a china shop and found that the bull avoided the shelves and didn't break anything.
But this is an RFK analogy, so its more likely he'd decapitate the bull with a chainsaw then dump its body in central park.
Just think about this statement for a second.
If you know someone has done terrible things, why would they change once they acquire more power?
Having a bad past stops you from owning weapons, from obtaining security clearance. Why do you think this is the case?
If you know someone has done terrible things, why would they change once they acquire more power?
Having a bad past stops you from owning weapons, from obtaining security clearance. Why do you think this is the case?
You're correct that I don't expect RFK's policies to necessarily follow his personal beliefs. He's previously mentioned being pro-choice, and this admin is against that, so he's already changed his tune there.
But no, I don't expect him to change that much. Just last night he was on Fox saying how we don't have good data on the COVID vaccines.
But no, I don't expect him to change that much. Just last night he was on Fox saying how we don't have good data on the COVID vaccines.
RFK Jr. has a long track record of spreading pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and misinformation—issues that go beyond personal beliefs and directly impact decision-making. Trusting him to govern rationally ignores the fact that his entire brand is built on anti-vaccine rhetoric and a general rejection of scientific consensus. Leaders who have successfully set aside personal beliefs to govern effectively typically have a history of pragmatism, not one of doubling down on disinformation. If someone has spent years pushing harmful falsehoods, there's little reason to believe they'll suddenly embrace reality when in power.
"Do we have such little faith that we judge a person before a single stroke of the pen?"
Yes.
It's not like he hasn't got a massive body of public statements to read. I mean, I understand that people in gov think we are all dumb enough that we think he's "pro-vaccine" no, somehow despite his toddler merch.
I mean, sometimes I think I am dumb too, especially when I respond to folks on this site. But yeah, most folks here aren't so dumb they can't tell what RFK will probably do based on his long public record of saying dumb stuff.
Yes.
It's not like he hasn't got a massive body of public statements to read. I mean, I understand that people in gov think we are all dumb enough that we think he's "pro-vaccine" no, somehow despite his toddler merch.
I mean, sometimes I think I am dumb too, especially when I respond to folks on this site. But yeah, most folks here aren't so dumb they can't tell what RFK will probably do based on his long public record of saying dumb stuff.
> Many/most people hired by US government agencies in the last two years seem to be being let-go.
Could read into this a few ways. People joined who were eager to be part of tackling how the US prepares for and manages the next pandemic (which was uh, how do you say...an unpopular event with this administration), or people who may have been hired while DEI initiatives were having their moment. Both cases feel like vengeful targeting.
Regardless of which camp you're in, you can't ignore the collateral damage from this. What a very troubling time for the US.
Could read into this a few ways. People joined who were eager to be part of tackling how the US prepares for and manages the next pandemic (which was uh, how do you say...an unpopular event with this administration), or people who may have been hired while DEI initiatives were having their moment. Both cases feel like vengeful targeting.
Regardless of which camp you're in, you can't ignore the collateral damage from this. What a very troubling time for the US.
Or its just everyone who accepted a federal job to put food on their family table or to perform public service. It's all federal jobs, not just health as in this article, where those that are hired within the last 1-2 years are being summarily fired. Without consideration of performance or need.
We're damaging our future, for what?
> One high-level researcher who spoke on the condition of anonymity said that the NIH has effectively shut down a highly competitive intramural research program for undergraduate degree holders before they start graduate or medical school. It’s responsible for the next generation of leaders in biomedical sciences, the researcher said: “These are the best and the brightest to get their training and become world class scientists to compete with China.” The program had about 1,600 people in it last year; more than 1,000 positions will not be filled, the person said.
> One high-level researcher who spoke on the condition of anonymity said that the NIH has effectively shut down a highly competitive intramural research program for undergraduate degree holders before they start graduate or medical school. It’s responsible for the next generation of leaders in biomedical sciences, the researcher said: “These are the best and the brightest to get their training and become world class scientists to compete with China.” The program had about 1,600 people in it last year; more than 1,000 positions will not be filled, the person said.
Could someone with an economics background comment on what effects may occur after having a quarter million people out of work at the same time?
They probably caught wind of a bad jobs report upcoming and so they're trying to cover it up with mass federal layoffs and say that's the reason it's bad. That would be par for the course for these people, wouldn't it?
Virginia will be the place to watch. Northern Virginia is the home to many federal workers. Over 145k federal civilian employees not to mention contractors.
https://virginiamercury.com/2025/02/05/virginia-moves-to-pro...
https://virginiamercury.com/2025/02/05/virginia-moves-to-pro...
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We need to change the laws making it difficult to fire federal employees, so that we can fire low performers instead of just based on seniority. Previous corrupt laws were passed to only allow firing junior employees, not senior. So this is the only way to shrink the federal government at this point.
Make the federal government accountable and allow terminations based on performance.
Make the federal government accountable and allow terminations based on performance.
> We need to change the laws making it difficult to fire federal employees, so that we can fire low performers instead of just based on seniority.
Documented individual bad performance and misconduct are the (only, basically) reasons firing nonprobationary civil servants on an individual basis is allowed, seniority is an issue with general reductions in force because of elimination of functions, but isn't the controlling factor in for cause, performance or misconduct, firings.
It is, however, illegal to fire civil servants arbitrarily and invoke notional “bad performance” as an excuse; unlike in the private sector, there is a defined process that has the force of law and Constitutional due process rights behind it.
Documented individual bad performance and misconduct are the (only, basically) reasons firing nonprobationary civil servants on an individual basis is allowed, seniority is an issue with general reductions in force because of elimination of functions, but isn't the controlling factor in for cause, performance or misconduct, firings.
It is, however, illegal to fire civil servants arbitrarily and invoke notional “bad performance” as an excuse; unlike in the private sector, there is a defined process that has the force of law and Constitutional due process rights behind it.
What’s hard to tell in all this:
What is likely illegal vs what is actually the presidents prerogative? Or is it all a test to find that boundary?
What is likely illegal vs what is actually the presidents prerogative? Or is it all a test to find that boundary?
Many actions are illegal, but who is going to stop them? Supreme court is stacked. Congress and house is in republican control.
Most people aren't aware of ARPA-H but the research it funds is important and potentially highly impactful. It takes a DARPA approach of funding "moonshot" type research in the domain of medicine/health. These are projects that are normally very hard to fund because they are trying to solve hard problems rather than result in some immediate commercial application. But a necessary part of the hard science that lays the foundation for future technological breakthroughs. Very sad to see this laid to wasted by some idiots.
> Head of ARPA-H and Biden appointee Renee Wegrzyn told staff Friday morning that she was fired, a source told STAT. The agency, established in 2022 by Biden to work with the private sector on breakthrough medical technology, employs less than 200 workers. Because of the agency’s newness, most employees are considered probationary and could be targeted for layoffs.
> Head of ARPA-H and Biden appointee Renee Wegrzyn told staff Friday morning that she was fired, a source told STAT. The agency, established in 2022 by Biden to work with the private sector on breakthrough medical technology, employs less than 200 workers. Because of the agency’s newness, most employees are considered probationary and could be targeted for layoffs.
Well, we're pretty unhealthy. These agencies don't seem to have been very successful at making us healthy. Probably time to try another approach.
You don't start burning things when you only have a concept of a plan for what comes next.
This is cutting off your head to cure a migraine.
It is more like getting rid of the quacks to look for other cures. While success is not guaranteed it has been proven by now that the current approach does not lead to desirable results.
By the way, it is quite remarkable how much resistance there is to change in the supposedly 'progressive' opposition to Trump. Those who want to keep things the way they are tend to be called 'conservative' while those who want to shake up things - to make them better or just to change them for change's sake - are called 'progressive'. It looks like the 'progressives' of old have turned into 'conservatives' while the 'conservatives' have taken on more 'progressive' characteristics. This goes to show that party labels and affiliations only go so far when it comes to finding out who stands where and that the silly 'left' vs 'right' dichotomy is decidedly useless to separate 'good' from 'bad', no matter where you consider yourself to stand in this division.
By the way, it is quite remarkable how much resistance there is to change in the supposedly 'progressive' opposition to Trump. Those who want to keep things the way they are tend to be called 'conservative' while those who want to shake up things - to make them better or just to change them for change's sake - are called 'progressive'. It looks like the 'progressives' of old have turned into 'conservatives' while the 'conservatives' have taken on more 'progressive' characteristics. This goes to show that party labels and affiliations only go so far when it comes to finding out who stands where and that the silly 'left' vs 'right' dichotomy is decidedly useless to separate 'good' from 'bad', no matter where you consider yourself to stand in this division.
Or: imagine how much worse it would be had we never had these agencies?
You don't fix public health by shooting it in the head
Cue the measles outbreak in 3... 2...!
There's already an outbreak in Texas.
It's not just measles; don't forget the tuberculosis outbreak in Kansas.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/tuberculosis-in-kansas-the...
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/tuberculosis-in-kansas-the...
Everything Musk et. al. is doing seems to me to be the analog of a junior developer joining and wanting to rewrite everything.
That's literally the DOGE staff.
MoVe FaSt AnD bReAk ThInGs
Ah, allegedly my previous employer is still reeling from one especially motivated individual who ripped through the codebase.
Yes, he was let loose without supervision or code review.
Fun times.
Yes, he was let loose without supervision or code review.
Fun times.
dubcanada(4)
It seems the admin just wants to gut everything, and the only reason to me seems privatization. Make all these agencies dysfunctional, tell people look how bad<insert govt. agency here> is, let's get bids from private companies that can do a better job at <x> dollars.
I hope this is not the case.