Mercedes-Benz Drives Toward Solid-State EV Batteries(spectrum.ieee.org)
spectrum.ieee.org
Mercedes-Benz Drives Toward Solid-State EV Batteries
https://spectrum.ieee.org/mercedes-benz
59 comments
BYD say they expect to begin 'demonstration use' of all-solid-state batteries by 2027.
>Large-scale adoption of all-solid-state batteries may not happen until after 2030, BYD's battery business CTO said https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1iq5ukh/b...
>Large-scale adoption of all-solid-state batteries may not happen until after 2030, BYD's battery business CTO said https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1iq5ukh/b...
My EQE with its very mediocre battery, claims to get ~300 miles but actually gets about 350 when I drive it.
And that is already pushing the limits of my bladder. I can't imagine ever wanting to drive further than that without stopping.
And that is already pushing the limits of my bladder. I can't imagine ever wanting to drive further than that without stopping.
Is that at highway speeds (75 miles/hour)? The EPA range estimates/ratings are a blend of city and highway driving with an average speed of 48 miles/hr. So highway range is usually considerably less than the EPA estimate. Maybe Mercedes is super-conservative with their range estimate? Makes more sense I guess for a luxury class vehicle.
How about going uphill, or in colder weather, etc.
I still would not rent an EV when traveling.
I still would not rent an EV when traveling.
It's less about stopping and more about how often you have to charge the car. If more cars have to charge more frequently with a longer charge time, then more fast charging infrastructure needs to be built out.
Larger vehicles (buses, trucks) need more battery. Towing requires more battery.
Fewer stops out of the necessity to charge is a good thing.
Larger vehicles (buses, trucks) need more battery. Towing requires more battery.
Fewer stops out of the necessity to charge is a good thing.
> And that is already pushing the limits of my bladder. I can't imagine ever wanting to drive further than that without stopping.
The EV critics would say that you can empty your bladder much faster than the car can charge its battery.
Personally though for ranges that exceed 350-400 miles, I would typically consider flying (or taking the train if those are fast) anyway.
The EV critics would say that you can empty your bladder much faster than the car can charge its battery.
Personally though for ranges that exceed 350-400 miles, I would typically consider flying (or taking the train if those are fast) anyway.
When highway self-driving happens to the point I can sleep/nap, I'll strongly disagree.
I get to take multiple people, more cargo, leave whenever I want, and when I get there I have a car.
I get to take multiple people, more cargo, leave whenever I want, and when I get there I have a car.
A car with similar range but a physically smaller battery would be cheaper and lighter; also, faster charging is always nice.
semi-solid-state cells
Those have been around for a while. There are already prototype full solid state cells. Nobody has a good production process yet.
Those have been around for a while. There are already prototype full solid state cells. Nobody has a good production process yet.
I believe the only hard announcement here is they are road testing on real Mercedes and soon Dodge cars after both parent companies previously invested $200M into the startup
Is the Solid State Battery claimed by Mercedes-Benz safer than the batteries currently used in EVs? In 2024, a Mercedes electric vehicle caught a major fire in my country (South Korea), which has led to a rise in electric vehicle phobia and even places where parking is completely prohibited.
If you read the article it will answer your question in the first paragraph
Oh, I see. Thanks.
EV’s catch fire at a far lower rate than gas vehicles.
SSBs will not only revolutionize ground transport, but more importantly air transport and drone tech.
Given it has such high military value and those customers can pay very well, I predict that they will see the first uses of this tech.
Given it has such high military value and those customers can pay very well, I predict that they will see the first uses of this tech.
Another better battery Bulletin :(
It's always the companies without a solid mass market EV that are promising this.
Mercedes sells 8 different EV models (including commercial vans). While they haven’t been doing as well as competitors like BMW in EV sales, they are not a nobody in the space.
tesla didn't start with a mass market EV either. its generally better to go after rich people with cutting edge features because they are less price sensitive and can pay the margins involved with low volume runs until the tech is perfected and ready to scale.
isnt the prevailing issue with solid state is that they're both expensive to manufacture AND they have a short lifecycle? (ie the lifespan of a solidstate is about a 1/4 of a NMC and even less that of a LFP)
Solid state LFP batteries, having no moving parts, is supposed to last longer and be more energy dense than traditional lithium ion, though we'll have to see what it is in practice.
Another day, another better battery for consumer product promise. I really hope one day we will get rid of stinking non electric cars from the streets.
Did we ever figure out a valid EV system for heavy trucks that need to drive 600 miles in a 10 hour shift? Seems like a very tall order for standard EV infrastructure and mobile systems
If you're driving 600 miles in 10 hours without a 30 minute break you should have your license taken away. And 30 minutes is all you need for enough of a charge top-up on a 400 mile battery.
We figured out a system for that in 1881 - electrified railways!
Of course it requires massive capital investment, a modal shift for the last mile, and it's somewhat inflexible.
Of course it requires massive capital investment, a modal shift for the last mile, and it's somewhat inflexible.
I remember watching a video 3 years ago by Tom Scott about trucks with overhed power like trains have.
https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg
Trains travel on semi level grades -not steep. Trucks on the other hand do, even if only counting interstates. Having a large tonnage truck going up hill lose power would not be fun. Maybe they can make them more reliable than MUNIs implementation.
On the flip side, when semi drivers get regenerative braking on the downhill and the far superior torque on the way up, you'll pry EV-semis only from their cold dead hands.
I still don't see why PHEVs aren't a thing in Semis so you can get regen braking, torque, efficiency, and range, but what do I know.
I still don't see why PHEVs aren't a thing in Semis so you can get regen braking, torque, efficiency, and range, but what do I know.
Edison Motors is making it a thing.
“Drivers must take a 30-minute break after driving for 8 cumulative hours”
We already have laws.
We already have laws.
Janus has some 900 mile configurations.
https://www.januselectric.com.au/
https://www.januselectric.com.au/
Why do they look like that? There shouldn't even be an engine under that huge-ass hood. Cab-Over makes way more sense, including for visibility.
They're old diesel trucks that have been converted.
Oh sorry I seem to have missed that, thanks.
Thankfully the that doesn’t describe the majority of non-commercial, or even commercial, requirements.
Ideally a lot of the long-haul freight could be handled by rail, but another option for trucks is to have electrified highways. There are some projects in Sweden (one of which uses power rails embedded in slots in the road surface) and Germany (which uses overhead lines).
The slots-in-the-road approach is a bit more expensive, but it can be used by cars and trucks, whereas the overhead lines are just for trucks.
The slots-in-the-road approach is a bit more expensive, but it can be used by cars and trucks, whereas the overhead lines are just for trucks.
This is just a question of energy density, cost, and how much weight/cost you are willing to add to the truck.
We'll hit that point soon enough (if we haven't already with some nice truck that hasn't crossed my newsfeed). In the meantime, there's lots of shorter haul trucking routes, and routes with access to fast chargers half way (300 mile electric semis definitely exist), to convert.
We'll hit that point soon enough (if we haven't already with some nice truck that hasn't crossed my newsfeed). In the meantime, there's lots of shorter haul trucking routes, and routes with access to fast chargers half way (300 mile electric semis definitely exist), to convert.
I think they are called freight trains.
Freight trains are mostly diesel, to be fair.
That's the configuration that Edison Motors is going for, for their semi trucks. Electric drive motors with a diesel generator.
https://www.edisonmotors.ca/
https://www.edisonmotors.ca/
Electric trains are pretty common in some parts of the world, it's just that the US has never bothered with it. And to be fair, diesel trains are already very energy efficient. I believe trains haul about as much cargo around as trucks do in the US on a daily basis, but the amount of fuel they consume is like a rounding error in comparison to trucks.
I think electrifying the trains is still worth doing, but if we want to reduce CO2 emissions and dependence on fossil fuels, it's not as important as getting those diesel-powered trucks off the road somehow.
I think electrifying the trains is still worth doing, but if we want to reduce CO2 emissions and dependence on fossil fuels, it's not as important as getting those diesel-powered trucks off the road somehow.
I think the current direction is to use hot swappable batteries and I think these have 600km range
Nobody drives 600 miles in one go.
A few do. The law requires a break only after 8 hours of driving. With a bottle to pee in and snacks to eat some will do that. Most will take breaks ever hour or two (any who talk to thair doctor will) but those are stop, pee, and get back on the road. They are paid by the mile and long breaks cost money. Team divers only stop for a few hours total per day.
Trucks driven by team drivers do. They're used when the load needs to get there fast.
https://ntslogistics.com/glossary/team-driver-transport/
https://ntslogistics.com/glossary/team-driver-transport/
Bladder innovations... an untapped market
I think Coke and Pepsi may already have that market tapped.
Range is meaningless, charging speed is everything.
According to Bjorn's testing - efficiency trumps all of the above.
Who is that? I am not sure why you would assume everyone knows who that is?
Efficiency certainly isn't unimportant but fast charging can overcome it.
I would also argue that EVs can't succeed unless fast charging overcomes efficiency. For EVs to succeed and overtake ICE vehicles they need to work for vehicles that are inherently inefficient, such as minivans, 3-row family SUVs, trucks, and commercial vans.
This is especially true since large vehicles are often the most profitable in the US.
Efficiency certainly isn't unimportant but fast charging can overcome it.
I would also argue that EVs can't succeed unless fast charging overcomes efficiency. For EVs to succeed and overtake ICE vehicles they need to work for vehicles that are inherently inefficient, such as minivans, 3-row family SUVs, trucks, and commercial vans.
This is especially true since large vehicles are often the most profitable in the US.
One of the biggest EV testers out there. If you know EVs you know him.
All three are important and sure you can somewhat brute-force either aspect, but ultra fast charging stations are not as prevalent as you think it is. Most stations are still 50kW, but there are few 150kW. 250kW and more are still super rare.
All three are important and sure you can somewhat brute-force either aspect, but ultra fast charging stations are not as prevalent as you think it is. Most stations are still 50kW, but there are few 150kW. 250kW and more are still super rare.
Just returning to this thread to point out how BYD is showing off 1000kW charging.
I'd bet $10 that China is well-covered with 1000kW charging within 10 years.
I'd bet $10 that China is well-covered with 1000kW charging within 10 years.
I accept your bet. What does “well-covered” mean?
I'm sorry but if you provide zero links and minimal context you can't assume people know who you're talking about by first name alone especially when it's a YouTuber with under 350,000 followers.
And again efficiency is important but EVs won't succeed unless they can include inefficient vehicles that are a necessity or a strong preference for many buyers, which is why 250kW+ charging stations are important if the US is ever going to adopt EVs as a full ICE replacement.
If I need a truck with an 8 foot bed and a body-on-frame vehicle to carry building supplies to my commercial property that I own across state lines and it currently gets 20mpg using the most advanced ICE technology on the market, I'm going to need 250kW+ chargers available if I'm ever going to replace that vehicle with an EV. Doubly so if I need to tow a trailer.
And again efficiency is important but EVs won't succeed unless they can include inefficient vehicles that are a necessity or a strong preference for many buyers, which is why 250kW+ charging stations are important if the US is ever going to adopt EVs as a full ICE replacement.
If I need a truck with an 8 foot bed and a body-on-frame vehicle to carry building supplies to my commercial property that I own across state lines and it currently gets 20mpg using the most advanced ICE technology on the market, I'm going to need 250kW+ chargers available if I'm ever going to replace that vehicle with an EV. Doubly so if I need to tow a trailer.
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I remember reading about attempts to commercialise EUV lithography in the early 2000s (in a paper magazine!) The same issues that SSB have now - some lucky examples from tiny yields in the lab, but the devil's own problem to scale it and develop reliable manufacturing.
ASML was able to commercialise it in 2018. I expect the timeline for SSB to be about the same, twenty years or so. I think we will see it but not until the 2030s.