A deliberate practice app for guitar players who want to level up(captrice.io)
captrice.io
A deliberate practice app for guitar players who want to level up
https://www.captrice.io/
139 comments
Thanks HN, for helping me force Vineet's hand into accepting that the app is worthy of being used by not-Vineet.
He demo'd Captrice last week, to a bunch of friends here in Bangalore. And I knew he was going straight to the "infinite bikeshed", based on his tepid answers to questions like "Wow this is cool! So... Launch, when?".
Plus, you made m'dude earn his "First Internet Dollar". To whomever did the "buy me a coffee" thing... you're awesome! There is a stark psychological "before/after" of earning your F.I.D. Now he can't ever go back.
As someone stuck in his own Infinite Bikeshed, I take heart from this event, and hope to follow in his footsteps sooner than later :)
He demo'd Captrice last week, to a bunch of friends here in Bangalore. And I knew he was going straight to the "infinite bikeshed", based on his tepid answers to questions like "Wow this is cool! So... Launch, when?".
Plus, you made m'dude earn his "First Internet Dollar". To whomever did the "buy me a coffee" thing... you're awesome! There is a stark psychological "before/after" of earning your F.I.D. Now he can't ever go back.
As someone stuck in his own Infinite Bikeshed, I take heart from this event, and hope to follow in his footsteps sooner than later :)
This looks super cool, and very similar to a need I have, except I'm not learning the guitar.
I'm learning my first (serious) instrument and I've decided on the lyre, since it's similar to other string instruments (guitar, ukulele, traditional harp) but a bit easier.
Will you support other instruments for lessons, other than the guitar?
I'm learning my first (serious) instrument and I've decided on the lyre, since it's similar to other string instruments (guitar, ukulele, traditional harp) but a bit easier.
Will you support other instruments for lessons, other than the guitar?
I am going through the alphatex documentation in more detail and chances are that any stringed instrument could already be supported. Checkout the tuning section - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/metadata#tuning.
It might even work for piano as well, there's an example here - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/notes/#multiple-voices
It might even work for piano as well, there's an example here - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/notes/#multiple-voices
Awesome!
I'd think about considering a more common instrument because you'll have a bigger support network.
You can find guitar teachers literally anywhere, guitar tabs are all over the internet, and you probably have friends who can give you a few pointers if you get stuck. Ukelele and bass guitar aren't that far behind.
You can find guitar teachers literally anywhere, guitar tabs are all over the internet, and you probably have friends who can give you a few pointers if you get stuck. Ukelele and bass guitar aren't that far behind.
When I was in college, in 1996, several computer science professors told me I was playing with toys and no serious organization would use Linux as an operating system.
In 1997, I asked a math professor about a statistics program, and he said R would never be used for real work.
In 1998, I was told that sure, I could learn Python if I wanted, but I should learn Java, but if I insisted on a scripting language, I should stick with Perl.
I don't use tools because I think they're popular, I do what I enjoy.
Also you didn't ask me why it might be easier for me to learn the lyre, which has to do with physical limitations I have.
In 1997, I asked a math professor about a statistics program, and he said R would never be used for real work.
In 1998, I was told that sure, I could learn Python if I wanted, but I should learn Java, but if I insisted on a scripting language, I should stick with Perl.
I don't use tools because I think they're popular, I do what I enjoy.
Also you didn't ask me why it might be easier for me to learn the lyre, which has to do with physical limitations I have.
God tier app. Up the irons.
Looks like a great app.
For those who can't read sheet music, can I suggest a guitar tabs?
For those who can't read sheet music, can I suggest a guitar tabs?
The very first screenshot I see in the website is guitar tabs.
Not only that, everything I see is tabs - I don't see music notation anywhere and I'm looking through exercises right now.
Yes, music notation is configured to be hidden as I felt it would take up extra space. But recently I myself felt the need for it when editing tabs that had triplets. Beams are not visible in tabs. Planning to add a button soon to toggle notation display.
That is great to hear. Notation is essential, especially for musicians coming to the guitar from another instrument.
I would suggest learning standard notation. Tabs are useful (since you often have a choice of what string to play any given note on, but which you choose matters both because different strings sound different, and because some strings will make the next note unreachable), but standard notation has benefits too. If you know both you have a chance of playing along with anyone else - most people will hand you standard notation when they want you to play background to solo, or play with in a group with you (this depends on what type of group - some groups will have tab some will not).
Guitar tab is uniquely suited for exercises because it directly shows which string and fret to play, which is important since the same note can be played in multiple positions on the fretboard, unlike an instrument like the piano where std notation does show you exactly what to play. It also clearly communicates guitar-specific techniques (bends, slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs) that are awkward to represent in traditional notation. For exercises specifically, tab shows you where your hand should be positioned on the neck, making it easier to develop proper technique and muscle memory.
BTW the original comment didn't make sense since the app does support tab, just wanted to make this point. Also not saying that learning std notation isn't valuable although many excellent players never learn it.
BTW the original comment didn't make sense since the app does support tab, just wanted to make this point. Also not saying that learning std notation isn't valuable although many excellent players never learn it.
You can annotate position changes onto a traditional score too, in most cases without it getting too noisy, fwiw
[deleted]
Cool! I guess there needs to be a way for people to share new lessons to practise, it gets complicated with copyright pretty fast.
For real "lessons" you'd probably need to start at chord progressions, go into scales and how the chords relate back to those, then move to these types of soloing technique lessons.
AlphaTab is the star here https://github.com/CoderLine/alphaTab - it's been maintained tirelessly for years by Daniel Kuschny.
I've started to build this type of lessons sitea few times in the past and never really got it together enough to release anything. I've done scale/chord/arpeggio tools: https://github.com/webprofusion/scalex
For real "lessons" you'd probably need to start at chord progressions, go into scales and how the chords relate back to those, then move to these types of soloing technique lessons.
AlphaTab is the star here https://github.com/CoderLine/alphaTab - it's been maintained tirelessly for years by Daniel Kuschny.
I've started to build this type of lessons sitea few times in the past and never really got it together enough to release anything. I've done scale/chord/arpeggio tools: https://github.com/webprofusion/scalex
What do you need "scales" practice for on guitar? It's a totally relative instrument except when playing on empty strings, so there's only one "scale" pattern that you have to learn. It's nothing like a keyboard!
Blues scales, various jazz scales, scales influenced by ragas or the countless other music traditions from around the world, microtonal scales, nonstandard tunings like fifths/DADGAD/DADF#A, scales with different fingering and picking patterns to increase movement speed in different directions, scales that are adjusted to use or avoid open strings because of the effects on ornamentation/drones/other techniques, scales that include sweeping sections or are entirely composed of sweeping arpeggios, etc.
There are dozens of scales to learn, with roots all over the fretboard. Each useful for different things. Just the basic minor pentatonic requires five different patterns. Eight note scales require eight different patterns, with various roots depending on the mode you want to play.
The Guitar Grimoirr scale book is 200 pages!
The Guitar Grimoirr scale book is 200 pages!
Yeah, this is about modes, really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)
By "pattern" you mean starting the scale on a different note/step? (or, equivalently, rolling the interval arrangement and ending up with one that's seemingly "different"?) That seems like a trivial change - if you can play C-D-E-F etc. you can play D-E-F etc. Why does it have to be "learned" separately?
No, a pattern does not refer to changing the key of the scale.
A pattern is a way of playing a scale across the strings without having to move your hand. To play the same scale in the same key at a different position on the neck, the pattern of notes is different.
You have to learn 5 different patterns to be able to play a single pentatonic scale anywhere on the neck.
Obviously they all start at a different position if you want to use a different key - that is easy. Still 5 patterns to learn though just for that one scale.
A pattern is a way of playing a scale across the strings without having to move your hand. To play the same scale in the same key at a different position on the neck, the pattern of notes is different.
You have to learn 5 different patterns to be able to play a single pentatonic scale anywhere on the neck.
Obviously they all start at a different position if you want to use a different key - that is easy. Still 5 patterns to learn though just for that one scale.
No, there are different scales. For a start, you can play a minor scale instead of a major one, or you can play a chromatic one (all the notes, a semitone at a time). Sticking to the notes of a scale when playing a melody is playing in a particular mode, for instance the pentatonic scale is a blues mode. Several modes are from ancient Greece and create strange stiff-sounding moods. I can't claim great consciousness of the mode/scale used in any familiar songs (other than the pentatonic), but this is a thing and it goes on a lot. Popular in the technical end of thrash metal.
Edit: the minor scale doesn't count because C major = A minor if you start on A, fair enough, forget that one.
Edit: the minor scale doesn't count because C major = A minor if you start on A, fair enough, forget that one.
> the minor scale doesn't count because C major = A minor if you start on A, fair enough, forget that one.
It might actually count since the harmonic minor exists. But this is just stressing the point that all of those "separate" scales might perhaps be best introduced as simple variations of the usual diatonic scale. Then sure, you might want to practice them a little bit, but at least you should have "learned" them in that you are not wondering what you're supposed to play.
It might actually count since the harmonic minor exists. But this is just stressing the point that all of those "separate" scales might perhaps be best introduced as simple variations of the usual diatonic scale. Then sure, you might want to practice them a little bit, but at least you should have "learned" them in that you are not wondering what you're supposed to play.
Even though they don't all have seven notes? (Why is a seven-note scale called "diatonic" anyway, that should mean a scale of two notes, doesn't sound very exciting.)
Which seven notes matters. At least on a guitar you only get 7 or 12. Some pipe organs have 15 notes which allows them to sound much better when you choose the right one (but some keys are horrible despite having 15 notes to choose from where as the standard 12 is an acceptable compromise for anything even if it worse where the 15 work). Violin gives you infinite choices, and I've seen keyboards that have 50+ (look up microtonal music). You can also remove the frets from a guitar - I've heard of one person (exactly one person) doing that.
> Why is a seven-note scale called "diatonic" anyway
The prefix of "diatonic" is "dia" ("through"), not "di" ("two"), but nobody really knows what exactly its origin (διάτονος, "diátonos") was supposed to mean[1]: it's probably either something like "through the tones" or "stretched out tones".
The second meaning is closer to the modern definition we have for diatonic: the 7 (out of 12) notes are selected to be as stretched out as possible in the octave, that is, each adjacent note is either 1 or 2 semitones apart, and the two 1-semitone-apart pairs are as far as possible from each other (note that the second requirement excludes e.g. the ascending melodic minor[2] from being considered diatonic, even though it has 7 notes).
[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/diatonic
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale
The prefix of "diatonic" is "dia" ("through"), not "di" ("two"), but nobody really knows what exactly its origin (διάτονος, "diátonos") was supposed to mean[1]: it's probably either something like "through the tones" or "stretched out tones".
The second meaning is closer to the modern definition we have for diatonic: the 7 (out of 12) notes are selected to be as stretched out as possible in the octave, that is, each adjacent note is either 1 or 2 semitones apart, and the two 1-semitone-apart pairs are as far as possible from each other (note that the second requirement excludes e.g. the ascending melodic minor[2] from being considered diatonic, even though it has 7 notes).
[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/diatonic
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale
They don’t really need to be learned differently. They do need to be practised though.
The patterns are different on different string sets. You don't need to learn DEF with the same pattern again, but you do need to learn all the ways of playing CDE
But then the pattern across strings is also "relative" and only depends on the guitar tuning you're playing. For instance in the standard tuning, two neighboring strings are always a perfect fourth apart (five frets) unless they're the G-B strings in which case they're a major third apart (four frets). So if you know where you'd be playing a note on one string, that same note is just five frets back or four frets back on the next one. Which is again a totally "relative" framing that works for any individual note the same way. You can even figure out where you'd have to play if the tuning was non-standard. These patterns only have to be practiced a little bit, there's not really any need to learn them from scratch.
(If anything, I would want a "guitar learning" app to automatically come up with its own exercises, similar to ear training apps for learning to recognize intervals - and using something like a spaced repetition approach to evaluate how the user is doing.)
(If anything, I would want a "guitar learning" app to automatically come up with its own exercises, similar to ear training apps for learning to recognize intervals - and using something like a spaced repetition approach to evaluate how the user is doing.)
Sounds like you answered your own question:
> What do you need "scales" practice for on guitar?
> These patterns only have to be practiced a little bit
> What do you need "scales" practice for on guitar?
> These patterns only have to be practiced a little bit
This is why learning guitar when I was younger was so difficult to me; people just presented things like "you have to learn these 5 scale patterns" but they didn't really go into why, it was just "memorize this stuff and then you'll be good!", but I hate rote memorization without understanding the underlying principles. I'm old and didn't have the internet back then so I was just learning from various books or friends and it was slow going, but I still see things like this presented in tons of Youtube videos today.
I've since gone back and learned a bit of music theory as an adult and it's been super helpful understanding the underlying principles so I can work things out vs. having to just memorize things without understanding why they work.
I think then you can go practice the various scale patterns and get good at them with the knowledge that you can always work out the scale from first principles if you need to.
Different strokes for different folks though I guess, I'm sure there's an argument to be made for not overwhelming folks with too much theory out of the gate. Not sure if I had started with a bunch of theory if I would have stuck with it when I was younger.
I've since gone back and learned a bit of music theory as an adult and it's been super helpful understanding the underlying principles so I can work things out vs. having to just memorize things without understanding why they work.
I think then you can go practice the various scale patterns and get good at them with the knowledge that you can always work out the scale from first principles if you need to.
Different strokes for different folks though I guess, I'm sure there's an argument to be made for not overwhelming folks with too much theory out of the gate. Not sure if I had started with a bunch of theory if I would have stuck with it when I was younger.
> not overwhelming folks with too much theory out of the gate.
Thing is, it's not even "too much theory". It really is just a simple tone-semitone pattern and a few bare facts about how the usual guitar tuning works, that you'd know anyway if you've ever had to tune your guitar by hand. That's all it takes to make the guitar explainable from first principles. Then sure, you can practice the "patterns" all you want for convenience's sake, but you don't have to commit anything to memory that you could not figure out again from scratch if needed.
Thing is, it's not even "too much theory". It really is just a simple tone-semitone pattern and a few bare facts about how the usual guitar tuning works, that you'd know anyway if you've ever had to tune your guitar by hand. That's all it takes to make the guitar explainable from first principles. Then sure, you can practice the "patterns" all you want for convenience's sake, but you don't have to commit anything to memory that you could not figure out again from scratch if needed.
> Thing is, it's not even "too much theory".
I would agree with you. I feel like watching videos where someone goes "hey, so here's this pattern that completely unlocks the neck for you, don't be stuck in a box anymore!" and all they're showing you is where the various notes in a key are along the neck (now I know that, but I wouldn't have known that before...) and it's WAY more confusing than if you just learn how the pentatonic scale works and how to find the notes in a key etc. And the funny thing is, the only reason I was stuck in that box in the first place is because of silly rote memorization without understanding why you play the various notes in a scale etc., it just feels like this thing that kind of compounds when you just learn patterns vs. just learning the underlying principles.
But again, I'm completely amateur at this stuff still, and I don't have any experience teaching other folks an instrument, so it's hard for me to say with any certainty that we should be teaching it one way or another I guess.
I would agree with you. I feel like watching videos where someone goes "hey, so here's this pattern that completely unlocks the neck for you, don't be stuck in a box anymore!" and all they're showing you is where the various notes in a key are along the neck (now I know that, but I wouldn't have known that before...) and it's WAY more confusing than if you just learn how the pentatonic scale works and how to find the notes in a key etc. And the funny thing is, the only reason I was stuck in that box in the first place is because of silly rote memorization without understanding why you play the various notes in a scale etc., it just feels like this thing that kind of compounds when you just learn patterns vs. just learning the underlying principles.
But again, I'm completely amateur at this stuff still, and I don't have any experience teaching other folks an instrument, so it's hard for me to say with any certainty that we should be teaching it one way or another I guess.
> This is why learning guitar when I was younger was so difficult to me
I agree. The downvoted op is right in a way. Guitarists have a way to make things difficult. Just learn to play the 1 octave major scale/arpeggio, and triads, then 7th shells. The guitar is relative, a 1 octave scale on a guitar is the same, on keyboard it's positional.
However it's worth mentioning that I think Berklee does teach patterns, and a few jazz guitarists say to learn it too. It almost seems like learning guitar is not as worked out as other instruments. Everybody that gets good winds up having to learn all the things other guitarists have had to figure out over years after they rote learned it.
I agree. The downvoted op is right in a way. Guitarists have a way to make things difficult. Just learn to play the 1 octave major scale/arpeggio, and triads, then 7th shells. The guitar is relative, a 1 octave scale on a guitar is the same, on keyboard it's positional.
However it's worth mentioning that I think Berklee does teach patterns, and a few jazz guitarists say to learn it too. It almost seems like learning guitar is not as worked out as other instruments. Everybody that gets good winds up having to learn all the things other guitarists have had to figure out over years after they rote learned it.
Nearly every popular-music guitar lesson series in the world teaches the five various pentatonic patterns--the few exceptions being those that focus on classical guitar or non-western music. You might find this article interesting.
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/43516/can-someone-...
There is definitely theory to how they are constructed, and you are right that the shifts and adjustments can be derived if you think about it and practice it. But that's just a longer way to the five patterns.
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/43516/can-someone-...
There is definitely theory to how they are constructed, and you are right that the shifts and adjustments can be derived if you think about it and practice it. But that's just a longer way to the five patterns.
The other patterns for the basic scales are just the missing notes too, like black keys being pentatonics and white being a traditional scale.
Allan Holdsworth enters the chat..
Scale patterns on a guitar are optimized for A: starting (lowest note 1) on a particular finger on a particular string and B: not sliding your hand up and down too much. For example, I know five major scale patterns: two start on the first string, two on the second, and one on the third.
Scales are definitely important. Building up the reflexes to just play a scale at a given point helps a lot especially when playing with other people.
Yea you can play the scales at any starting position to change the root note and the scale remains the same fret spacing as if you started with an open string, only now it starts at the fret you chose for the root. See 'fretboard logic' for more info.
Captrice allows you to export an exercise collection. You get a json file that can be shared with others or copied to another device where it can be imported back into the app.
> AlphaTab is the star here
Absolutely! High quality stuff. I wasn't aware of the person behind the project. Thanks for mentioning it.
> AlphaTab is the star here
Absolutely! High quality stuff. I wasn't aware of the person behind the project. Thanks for mentioning it.
This is awesome!
I made a very similar tool to help myself practice progressions specifically for banjo: https://banjo-rolls-deluxe.twait.dev/
Far fewer features than your app, but just having a tool to help nail down the muscle memory of pre-built progressions has been massively helpful for me as a banjo-player-in-training.
Your exercise builder is awesome and something I was planning on building into my site, might take some inspo!
Far fewer features than your app, but just having a tool to help nail down the muscle memory of pre-built progressions has been massively helpful for me as a banjo-player-in-training.
Your exercise builder is awesome and something I was planning on building into my site, might take some inspo!
It took me about 5 minutes to understand what this is doing.
For anyone else confused, it doesn't listen to you play, it just logs your use of the metronome and provides tabs.
IMO the app would be cooler if it was simply the metronome app on a page. And if you want to track which song you are working on, then just add the ability to label a session. Could have a different mode for people who want it over videos, but usually when I'm practicing, I know the tab and am not watching a video while I practice.
For anyone else confused, it doesn't listen to you play, it just logs your use of the metronome and provides tabs.
IMO the app would be cooler if it was simply the metronome app on a page. And if you want to track which song you are working on, then just add the ability to label a session. Could have a different mode for people who want it over videos, but usually when I'm practicing, I know the tab and am not watching a video while I practice.
Thanks for the feedback. I know the UI is not as intuitive as I'd like it to be for first time users. Multiple early users have told me that they expected it to either listen to them play or play back some audio. I am planning to record a small videos soon to clarify this.
> IMO the app would be cooler if it was simply the metronome app on a page. And if you want to track which song you are working on, then just add the ability to label a session. Could have a different mode for people who want it over videos, but usually when I'm practicing, I know the tab and am not watching a video while I practice.
The tab is mainly for (1) future reference, specially if you are creating your own exercises (2) sharing them with others. Sometimes I come up with short exercises myself that cover a specific technique or some picking pattern I am struggling with. Overtime I tend to forget those. In an earlier version, you could either add a tab or embed a video. But then I thought why not both! Feedback taken though, it should be fairly easy to make the tab/video section collapsible. Ability to label sessions in also on the roadmap.
> IMO the app would be cooler if it was simply the metronome app on a page. And if you want to track which song you are working on, then just add the ability to label a session. Could have a different mode for people who want it over videos, but usually when I'm practicing, I know the tab and am not watching a video while I practice.
The tab is mainly for (1) future reference, specially if you are creating your own exercises (2) sharing them with others. Sometimes I come up with short exercises myself that cover a specific technique or some picking pattern I am struggling with. Overtime I tend to forget those. In an earlier version, you could either add a tab or embed a video. But then I thought why not both! Feedback taken though, it should be fairly easy to make the tab/video section collapsible. Ability to label sessions in also on the roadmap.
Recording and watching or listening to myself play has been very helpful for me. Even a temporary recording of just the current session, or most recent n minutes/beats would be nice. It's hard to evaluate execution in real time while performing it. To get it right as a user experience is not a simple task though. However, your great minimal feature set could also be seen as a plus to drive the practice routine efficiently no matter the quality, you'll get better too.
Agree about recording and listening to it. I also do it sometimes. My concern about implementing the record/playback functionality is that it may introduce a bunch of complexity considering it's a web app (permissions to record mic, browser compatibility etc, limits on local storage etc.).
Nice yeah, a video would be great! Good work either way :D
I never quite got the setup right, but Rocksmith seemed to live up to the promise of "guitar hero on a real guitar". It came out during a time when spending my free time tinkering with computers became much more important than tinkering with guitars.
I went into Rocksmith because of this promise and for me it worked out well. Though it did not greatly improve my guitar playing skills beyond some of the basics, I do enjoy that I can interact in some way with the music that I like. It's like whistling along with your favourite song but with your hands, so the experience is much more engaging and it's feels more rewarding than guitar hero as the sound that I'm making sound a lot more like music than that clicking of buttons.
Nowadays they have a subscription service, I don't know what the quality of that is. But I mostly still play on the "2014 remastered" edition with a "real tone cable" on macOS, but I think they updated that and you can play with any "audio interface" device you like. There is also the customsforge library for unofficial songs, but quality varies.
Between Rocksmith and Youtube tutorials, playing along with my favourite songs is the most fun I can get out off playing guitar that my skill level and time investment allows. I'll never play in a band or make a decent sounding song, but enjoying and getting enveloped by music is good enough.
Nowadays they have a subscription service, I don't know what the quality of that is. But I mostly still play on the "2014 remastered" edition with a "real tone cable" on macOS, but I think they updated that and you can play with any "audio interface" device you like. There is also the customsforge library for unofficial songs, but quality varies.
Between Rocksmith and Youtube tutorials, playing along with my favourite songs is the most fun I can get out off playing guitar that my skill level and time investment allows. I'll never play in a band or make a decent sounding song, but enjoying and getting enveloped by music is good enough.
I really wanted to like Rocksmith, but the progressive difficulty didn’t feel quite right. I would get stuck on new chords, try the recommended arcade games, get stuck on those even harder and less satisfying tasks, then lose motivation. By the time I picked it back up it didn’t respond to the fact that my skills had regressed and I had to start a new profile. I spent more time noodling in the tone modeler than anything.
In retrospect, playing Rocksmith mostly improved my timing. And made me "keep the song going even if you miss a note". If you're just playing alone, without a metronome, backing track or a band, it's a habit to stop and repeat bad section.
I found the best way was to use the lessons and then the riff repeater on songs you want to learn, turn on all notes and slow down the speed until you can play a section. Then increase the speed or add a section.
The dynamic difficulty indeed sucked bad. And it was multiple settings to disable it.
Though I haven’t used this app I do plan on trying it out when I get my guitars back. I’m impressed at the effort, the resources, and the giving it free for the sake of spreading joy in music.
The guitar is a difficult instrument to learn, especially in the beginning phases. After 30 years it’s a conversation I have frequently - people try and give up a lot. If this can help some folks stick with it and become better understanding and practiced with their instrument, I hope that happens again and again and again. Every generation needs guitarists, as it’s the instrument of expressive rebellion the world round.
Great share and a Bill and Ted EXCELLENT weedly weedly weee!
The guitar is a difficult instrument to learn, especially in the beginning phases. After 30 years it’s a conversation I have frequently - people try and give up a lot. If this can help some folks stick with it and become better understanding and practiced with their instrument, I hope that happens again and again and again. Every generation needs guitarists, as it’s the instrument of expressive rebellion the world round.
Great share and a Bill and Ted EXCELLENT weedly weedly weee!
I've tried playing guitar on and off my whole life over last 40 years and I can't believe that it took me until this year to try, on a whim, a classical guitar. Suddenly my fat fingers can fit next to each other making an A or B chord, and they don't hurt and blister after a short session of play. Seriously make sure to not overlook non-steel guitars if you're having trouble.
As a guy with “little girl hands” as John 5 jokingly calls it, I have a reverse issue with the classical and some jazz arch tops! SRV had giant bear paws by the way. Buckethead has alien hands (no fair).
If you’re game, on electric you might enjoy a baritone scale guitar. I got an LP style 27” by Agile (PRS makes a nice SE model) and it’s a neat dynamic.
Very glad you shared about your experience. Just as a note, don’t go near any EVH signature models - the neck and fretboard is like a Telecaster but smaller!
If you’re game, on electric you might enjoy a baritone scale guitar. I got an LP style 27” by Agile (PRS makes a nice SE model) and it’s a neat dynamic.
Very glad you shared about your experience. Just as a note, don’t go near any EVH signature models - the neck and fretboard is like a Telecaster but smaller!
Some of the all time great bluesmen had fat sausage fingers so there's a bit more to it I suspect. After the same 40 years I got irritated one day and searched YouTube for "how do I play a C chord without muting strings" and found that my finger and wrist position was all wrong. Also spent a bunch of time watching Frampton, studying where his fingers go and what they look like.
For the C chord, you should be muting the low E string, though :)
Thanks for the kind words.
> people try and give up a lot. If this can help some folks stick with it and become better understanding and practiced with their instrument, I hope that happens again and again and again
This resonates so much.
> people try and give up a lot. If this can help some folks stick with it and become better understanding and practiced with their instrument, I hope that happens again and again and again
This resonates so much.
You’re welcome and much deserved! I’m grateful for the continued passion for the instrument. This helpful resource is a solid win for a hard-to-please community haha!
This looks neat. I'm interested in some of the more advanced exercises like the Rick Beato one here (https://app.captrice.io/?eid=ph79of6zlotm8y24mc4) but a couple of things prevented me from truly attempting it:
Firstly, the tab for that exercise is long enough to need a scroll bar, and so I don't understand how one is supposed to play along with that tab to a metronome... am I expected to operate the scroll bar every couple of measures while still staying in time with the metronome? So I would suggest either auto-scroll, or better yet just find a way to get all 12 measures of the exercise to fit on the screen at the same time. I have a big enough monitor that it would fit.
Secondly, although you have the link to the embedded video player, I wouldn't be able to keep the intended sound of the exercise in my head long enough that I would feel confident I was playing the exercise right later. The app really feels like it needs a synthesized guitar sound that would play the notes of the exercise, so that I could play it along with the synthesized version and know whether I was hitting the right note. It would be OK if it sounded cheesy -- that would be better than nothing, and then once I was confident that I had the correct sequence down, I would disable the synthetic sound.
Firstly, the tab for that exercise is long enough to need a scroll bar, and so I don't understand how one is supposed to play along with that tab to a metronome... am I expected to operate the scroll bar every couple of measures while still staying in time with the metronome? So I would suggest either auto-scroll, or better yet just find a way to get all 12 measures of the exercise to fit on the screen at the same time. I have a big enough monitor that it would fit.
Secondly, although you have the link to the embedded video player, I wouldn't be able to keep the intended sound of the exercise in my head long enough that I would feel confident I was playing the exercise right later. The app really feels like it needs a synthesized guitar sound that would play the notes of the exercise, so that I could play it along with the synthesized version and know whether I was hitting the right note. It would be OK if it sounded cheesy -- that would be better than nothing, and then once I was confident that I had the correct sequence down, I would disable the synthetic sound.
> Firstly, the tab for that exercise is long enough to need a scroll bar, and so I don't understand how one is supposed to play along with that tab to a metronome.
I agree, this app is not great for learning a piece of music but it works well for practicing an already learnt piece. This is how I have been using it for myself.
As I mentioned in another comment, the tab and the video are mainly for reference i.e. to answer the question what to practice. Earlier, it only allowed either a tab or a video. At some point I added support for both (because why not!) Looks like that's causing some confusion.
I like your idea of playing along with a synthesized sound in the learning phase, although I haven't tried it myself. I believe alphatab (the lib used for tablature) does support midi playback which could make it function like guitar pro. Need to see how much complexity it introduces (mainly related to getting both the metronome and the midi to play together, never tried it). Perhaps there could be two separate modes to keep things simple - a learning mode without metronome and a practice mode (same as current). Won't promise anything but will at least do a POC.
Thanks for the detailed feedback.
PS: The link you shared wouldn't work for anyone else, as it only exists on your device thanks to the local-only-ness. Have some thinking to do to make this more intuitive.
I agree, this app is not great for learning a piece of music but it works well for practicing an already learnt piece. This is how I have been using it for myself.
As I mentioned in another comment, the tab and the video are mainly for reference i.e. to answer the question what to practice. Earlier, it only allowed either a tab or a video. At some point I added support for both (because why not!) Looks like that's causing some confusion.
I like your idea of playing along with a synthesized sound in the learning phase, although I haven't tried it myself. I believe alphatab (the lib used for tablature) does support midi playback which could make it function like guitar pro. Need to see how much complexity it introduces (mainly related to getting both the metronome and the midi to play together, never tried it). Perhaps there could be two separate modes to keep things simple - a learning mode without metronome and a practice mode (same as current). Won't promise anything but will at least do a POC.
Thanks for the detailed feedback.
PS: The link you shared wouldn't work for anyone else, as it only exists on your device thanks to the local-only-ness. Have some thinking to do to make this more intuitive.
There is something very very nice about the layout and the setup for this application. I can't quite put my finger on it but they got something right.
Agreed. For me it is the ample whitespace and the controlled use of color.
Thanks! Much credit goes to the Bulma[1] css framework, I guess. I am mostly a backend dev. I've just used bulma for the most part and tried to avoid anything fancy.
[1]: https://bulma.io/
[1]: https://bulma.io/
Nice app! I wonder if there is a piano version
Aw man this is great timing. I’m just getting back into guitar for the millionth time. I’ll definitely try this out tonight
One thing I started doing the last time I picked up guitar again, which was about two months ago, was wearing disposable nitrile gloves on my left hand. They're extremely thin and durable, and have minimal impact on dexterity, but allowed me to practice for over an hour a day with no residual pain the next day. It was always possible to practice through the pain on one day, but where I would slip up is skipping a day because my fingers still hurt. (And skipping a day turns into two...) I've still developed calluses, too, but I'm not quite ready to give them up. I'm much happier with my progress than I was any previous time, probably because I never skip a day of practice anymore.
It's not the most eco-friendly thing I've ever done, but I figure it's a pretty small amount of plastic in the grand scheme of things (especially in my line of work).
It's not the most eco-friendly thing I've ever done, but I figure it's a pretty small amount of plastic in the grand scheme of things (especially in my line of work).
One interesting thing to note is that many people use more force than necessary with their fretting hand. This was certainly true of me. Some hold the guitar neck with some sort of death-grip.
One useful exercise is to fret a note as you normally do, and play it. Then keep picking or plucking that note with gradually less pressure applied by your fretting fingers. At some point, the note will choke and not sound out any more. Then, a little more pressure can be applied to make it sound out again. That minimal level of force is going to be the ideal amount for stamina and to prevent injury. There’s nothing to be gained by pressing harder, in fact you can bend notes slightly sharp by pressing really hard. In many forms of instrument practice, hand tension is often the enemy (especially for faster soloing).
One useful exercise is to fret a note as you normally do, and play it. Then keep picking or plucking that note with gradually less pressure applied by your fretting fingers. At some point, the note will choke and not sound out any more. Then, a little more pressure can be applied to make it sound out again. That minimal level of force is going to be the ideal amount for stamina and to prevent injury. There’s nothing to be gained by pressing harder, in fact you can bend notes slightly sharp by pressing really hard. In many forms of instrument practice, hand tension is often the enemy (especially for faster soloing).
A little bit of googling tells me that “Nitrile finger cots” exist, that only cover your fingers.
What worked for me was to pick up the guitar every day, and play it for 5 minutes (or more, obviously). No exceptions to the minimum 5 minutes every day rule. I'm pretty good at cowboy chords, barre chords and a bit of blues after around 10 months of this.
Maybe someone can give me advice. I have no talent for guitar, I’ve only ever become decent when I practice for more than an hour every day. However due to my acoustic, this creates horrible calluses on my fingers. Is that just the way it is?
> when I practice for more than an hour every day
> this creates horrible calluses on my fingers
I think both are good problems to have :-). Consistently practicing for more than an hour every day is quite difficult unless you are professionally into it. If you are able to manage it then that's commendable. And once the calluses are formed, it doesn't hurt as much. A downside of skipping practice for a week, besides the practice itself, is that the calluses go away.
> this creates horrible calluses on my fingers
I think both are good problems to have :-). Consistently practicing for more than an hour every day is quite difficult unless you are professionally into it. If you are able to manage it then that's commendable. And once the calluses are formed, it doesn't hurt as much. A downside of skipping practice for a week, besides the practice itself, is that the calluses go away.
On acoustic with light or medium strings - it's OK. I used to flatten them with nail file from time to time. But it might be much easier on your finger tips just to start with electric and then progress towards acoustic.
I came here to say something similar to this. The action on most electric guitars (assuming they're set up properly) is a lot more forgiving for beginners than steel-string acoustics which are often set up with higher action in order to improve the volume.
Yes unfortunately, I've grown to be used to it over time though. Sometimes will press my fingers into random objects to make sure I keep them up.
Playing electric guitar also helps immensely due to the thinner strings and lower action.
Playing electric guitar also helps immensely due to the thinner strings and lower action.
One of the best pieces of advice I got when I started ages ago was to just put electric strings on the acoustic. If you're just practicing in your bedroom it will be much easier to play than on stiff acoustic strings. Give it a shot.
When you're ready to record then you can put acoustic strings on it, heh :-)
When you're ready to record then you can put acoustic strings on it, heh :-)
Or use nylon strings for concert guitars.
Or just use a nylon string, classical style or "Spanish" guitar for practice, even if you play something else in public. Nylon string guitars are easier on your fretting hand and allow you to practice longer without fatigue.
Would the difference in fretboard width cause any problems? A classical guitar fretboard is typically 52 mm wide, around 20% wider than a typical acoustic guitar or electric guitar fretboard's 43 mm wide fretboard.
Yeah, a classical guitar fretboard is a lot wider. It makes complex chord fingerings easier. I suppose a lot depends on how easily you can switch back and forth between a wide neck and the narrower electric guitar necks. Some people can; others find it hard to adjust.
Oh they're not horrible, you need those calluses. I so badly wish I still had mine. It'd make picking back up my guitar so much easier. Now my fingertips are soft and useless.
I think the "Why?" link on the warning not to edit library imports just goes to #
If any one's looking for the answer to why it's not recommended to edit library imports - when you import collections from the library, you can receive updates whenever the collection author publishes a new version. These updates might include new exercises or improvements to existing ones. However, if you've made your own modifications to the collection, these personal changes will be overwritten when you update to the newer version.
It's mentioned on the faqs page - https://www.captrice.io/user-guide/faqs.html. Missed updating the link. Will push a fix shortly.
It's mentioned on the faqs page - https://www.captrice.io/user-guide/faqs.html. Missed updating the link. Will push a fix shortly.
Thanks for reporting. I’ll check this.
Great, thank you! Does it play the tabs? I only hear the metronome clicking...
Is there any option to import? Some kind of Guitar Pro import would be nice. I think gp-files are not propietary.
No, it doesn't play the tabs. The primary use case to help with practicing something you've already learnt.
Import from Guitar Pro sounds like a good idea and the format doesn't seem to be proprietary based on a quick google search. Will explore further. Thanks!
Import from Guitar Pro sounds like a good idea and the format doesn't seem to be proprietary based on a quick google search. Will explore further. Thanks!
This looks super cool. I love projects like this. Going to give it a try!
I think the following would make a killer app in this category:
- App listens to your playing
- Identifies your weaknesses
- Creates a curated lesson plan
- App actively listens as you progress through the plan and adjusts
- App listens to your playing
- Identifies your weaknesses
- Creates a curated lesson plan
- App actively listens as you progress through the plan and adjusts
This so cool! Would love to have some time to train myself with those exercises more
Love it! Def going to use this.
What is the best way to learn Guitar as a total noob? Can this app help
Very good online resource (and free!) is JustinGuitar guitar course[1]. It begins from absolute nothing, no prior knowledge required. And it works for both acoustic and electric guitars. Also Justin is great, understanding and aproachable teacher (even though course is online). Only downside is you will need a lot of self discipline to go through it, but it definetly worked for me.
[1] https://www.justinguitar.com/
[1] https://www.justinguitar.com/
Finding a great teacher helps the most. I self-taught mostly and had a teacher for the first ten years. Learned some not-great habits with both right and left hand that took me some time to unlearn.
Find a teacher that can play the stuff you want to eventually play. Then take some lessons and assess whether you enjoy the process of working with them. Learning scales and doing exercises to get better will feel like a grind no matter what. A good teacher will give you enough variety to stimulate growth and make you have an appetite for the process of improvement.
Edit: meant to mention that buying a used guitar is a great way to save money, too. You can buy from Guitar Center's used section and have a 45 day return period. If you live near a store, you can just take it back there, as well. If you're not sure how to assess the instrument, you can buy something from there, take it to a guitar tech and have them check it out/set it up to make sure it's ok.
Find a teacher that can play the stuff you want to eventually play. Then take some lessons and assess whether you enjoy the process of working with them. Learning scales and doing exercises to get better will feel like a grind no matter what. A good teacher will give you enough variety to stimulate growth and make you have an appetite for the process of improvement.
Edit: meant to mention that buying a used guitar is a great way to save money, too. You can buy from Guitar Center's used section and have a 45 day return period. If you live near a store, you can just take it back there, as well. If you're not sure how to assess the instrument, you can buy something from there, take it to a guitar tech and have them check it out/set it up to make sure it's ok.
justinguitar.com
Completely FREE, while also being super detailed and comprehensive!
Completely FREE, while also being super detailed and comprehensive!
What worked for me (when I was a kid):
1. Get a very cheap guitar with nylon strings
2. Tune it to a major chord
3. Learn to barre, that is, hold down all the strings with one finger.
4. Play twelve-bar blues, just the chords, until sick.
6. When unable to bear any more, look for ways to change it up.
Edit: Look, here's the reasoning. First, the cheap guitar is not intimidating. The strings are soft. The tension is low. It isn't heavy, you can pick it up easily. It isn't valuable, so you can throw it down in disgust. Second, by playing something completely braindead, you get lots of basics sorted out about ergonomics and how hard to press the strings and how to strum and general confidence. Thirdly, because you're playing an actual tune right from the start, it's rewarding, and when the reward wears off you already have a base to work from which can be improved in small ways to seek further reward.
Incremental ways, in fact, which is a possible alternative to the word "deliberate".
1. Get a very cheap guitar with nylon strings
2. Tune it to a major chord
3. Learn to barre, that is, hold down all the strings with one finger.
4. Play twelve-bar blues, just the chords, until sick.
6. When unable to bear any more, look for ways to change it up.
Edit: Look, here's the reasoning. First, the cheap guitar is not intimidating. The strings are soft. The tension is low. It isn't heavy, you can pick it up easily. It isn't valuable, so you can throw it down in disgust. Second, by playing something completely braindead, you get lots of basics sorted out about ergonomics and how hard to press the strings and how to strum and general confidence. Thirdly, because you're playing an actual tune right from the start, it's rewarding, and when the reward wears off you already have a base to work from which can be improved in small ways to seek further reward.
Incremental ways, in fact, which is a possible alternative to the word "deliberate".
Total noob as in yet to buy your first guitar? I’d highly recommend taking offline lessons from a local guitar teacher, at least for a few months. Some things are difficult to unlearn and relearn later on. This app can be used to practice the lessons the teacher would give you.
If the place where you buy your guitar doesn't have lessons then buy your guitar elsewhere! There are music stores all over and nearly all of them have guitar teachers on staff - often the owner teaches guitar himself. If you want to play something weird (harp?) you might be stuck with online only lessons buying something without playing it from the internet. However most instruments have a local music shop and you should buy from them if possible. Note that guitar the patterns seems to be lessons are in the store you buy from. Piano you are generally better off with an unrelated teacher, and violin seems to be always unrelated private lessons - all are okay.
I would consider a teacher important enough that I would borrow/rent an instrument to try out teachers and only after you find a teacher you like buy. It is typically better to play an instrument you have never heard of before taught by a teacher you "click" with than buy the instrument you think you want but not find a good teacher.
That said, online lessons are great supplements to your teacher. And if you are broke (between jobs) often cheap. Sometimes online lessons can teach you things that your local teacher cannot (as opposed to will not because you are not ready). However the local teacher will also correct things that you will lie to yourself about.
I would consider a teacher important enough that I would borrow/rent an instrument to try out teachers and only after you find a teacher you like buy. It is typically better to play an instrument you have never heard of before taught by a teacher you "click" with than buy the instrument you think you want but not find a good teacher.
That said, online lessons are great supplements to your teacher. And if you are broke (between jobs) often cheap. Sometimes online lessons can teach you things that your local teacher cannot (as opposed to will not because you are not ready). However the local teacher will also correct things that you will lie to yourself about.
YouTube.
I’m not sure why, but so many guitarists I’ve met who learned from YouTube are bad. I’m not sure why, maybe they are replacing watching with practice? No custom feedback from real musicians who hear you play? YouTubers are motivated to overcomplicate things so you keep watching more videos? I’m not sure.
It may also be the context, I play original, improvisational music with people/in front of an audience and YouTube may be particularly bad at preparing people for this.
It may also be the context, I play original, improvisational music with people/in front of an audience and YouTube may be particularly bad at preparing people for this.
To be honest, most guitarists out there, except for the small percentage of top professional performers are bad, regardless of how they've learned.
That’s true to an extent, though I think there are good local players in most every town, but then using this definition I mean the people who learned on YouTube are exceptionally bad.
> No custom feedback from real musicians who hear you play?
Of course people who learn at home on their own will, on average, be worse than people going out and playing with other musicians. That would likely be even more true if they bought a VHS tape with lessons, or book with a CD.
Of course people who learn at home on their own will, on average, be worse than people going out and playing with other musicians. That would likely be even more true if they bought a VHS tape with lessons, or book with a CD.
Is anything really, _truly_ learnable from YouTube? It's the ultimate "feel productive" placebo out there.
I'm ready to be downvoted.
I'm ready to be downvoted.
That is also the secret of most self-paced online platforms like Udemy, Pluralsight and many others.The metrics they don't like to share. Most users never watch videos until the end, they buy courses but never start them or complete less than 4% to 10% of the course.
You can see sometimes course authors acknowledging these metrics. Companies training departments just wash their hands and say, we have these thousands of courses made available for our employees... :-)
You can see sometimes course authors acknowledging these metrics. Companies training departments just wash their hands and say, we have these thousands of courses made available for our employees... :-)
How do you mean? How does youtubing a lecture differ from sitting in the lecture hall itself for example? I'd argue both arent great learning experiences, but lectures seem to be viable enough to make up the bulk of contact time at university
Yes, but it is very very hard to find the personal discipline needed to do so. If you watch mindlessly you will learn very little. If you watch, then do the exercises/practice (depending on the topic different things are needed) you can learn a lot. Almost nobody does, but youtube and classroom lectures that are known to work are very similar - the difference is classrooms have various ways to get people to do the other homework.
I agree with you and upvoted, but saying things like being ready for downvotes is the surest way to get them if only for commenting on downvotes. :)
Any plans to add an option to render the tablature for bass guitar?
Looks like it's already supported in Alphatex - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/metadata#tuning. You will need to specify the following metadata in the tab editor
\tuning G2 D2 A1 E1 B0
\tuning G2 D2 A1 E1 B0
Anyone have recommendations for similar Android apps?
Captrice works in a browser on an android phone. But honestly, it's designed to be used on a desktop/laptop with a keyboard as there are some handy keybindings/shortcuts for easily controlling the metronome while playing the instrument.
If you are specifically looking for an android app, I've only found one that comes closest - Instrumentive[1]. It allows tracking time for the entire practice session besides uploaded recording of the session. Whereas my use case is to track the duration of practice at every tempo. Trying to play for extended duration seems to work well for me in terms of building endurance and muscle memory.
[1]: https://instrumentive.com/
If you are specifically looking for an android app, I've only found one that comes closest - Instrumentive[1]. It allows tracking time for the entire practice session besides uploaded recording of the session. Whereas my use case is to track the duration of practice at every tempo. Trying to play for extended duration seems to work well for me in terms of building endurance and muscle memory.
[1]: https://instrumentive.com/
thank-you
If you have a web browser on your android, you could try this one.
Is there something similar for keyboard?
Does this kind of thing exist for piano?
Or for bass guitar ?
I haven’t tried using it for bass guitar but I believe it should just work? I assume you want tabs for bass guitar. Alphatab, the tablature editor supports bass guitar and other stringed instruments too. I guess it even supports notation for drums/percussion.
For that matter, I think the app should work for practicing any instrument that can be practiced with a metronome if you ignore tablature (which is only for reference anyway).
For now I want focus on guitar as that’s my primary use case but I’d love to extend it for other instruments in future.
For that matter, I think the app should work for practicing any instrument that can be practiced with a metronome if you ignore tablature (which is only for reference anyway).
For now I want focus on guitar as that’s my primary use case but I’d love to extend it for other instruments in future.
I am going through the alphatex docs in more detail and looks like other stringed instruments and even piano are already supported.
Check this for bass guitar - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/metadata#tuning
Check the example here for piano - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/notes/#multiple-voices
Check this for bass guitar - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/metadata#tuning
Check the example here for piano - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/notes/#multiple-voices
Is it just me or the reviews here look like fake reviews on Amazon?
I'd remove 'deliberate' from all copy as it reduces faith in the product; it's worse than 'opinionated'…
Just as another data point, I think the word 'deliberate' is entirely appropriate as it differentiates between 'casual' practice (e.g. just playing through a bunch of songs and hoping you get better) vs deliberate practice where you are working on a specific exercise with a specific goal. I can't really relate to what the parent post is saying.
I think it’s good to differentiate between ‘practice that makes a difference’ and ‘noodling about,’ in the words of my old teacher, which is practice that doesn’t concentrate on improving anything specific.
Is there a different word you’d choose? ‘Intentional’ is equally misused.
Is there a different word you’d choose? ‘Intentional’ is equally misused.
I hear what you're saying. On the other hand, "deliberate practice" is a term of art.
Deliberate practice is a jargon term in the world of learning a musical instrument.
I mean “deliberate” to be the adjective for “practice” and not “app”.
Thanks for the suggestion though. Definitely something to think about. I personally hate “opinionated” too.
Thanks for the suggestion though. Definitely something to think about. I personally hate “opinionated” too.
I had also posted on the "What are you working on?" thread yesterday - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43531684.
Happy to answer any questions.