Why 'Margin Call' remains Wall Street's favorite movie(semafor.com)
semafor.com
Why 'Margin Call' remains Wall Street's favorite movie
https://www.semafor.com/article/04/28/2025/jc-chandor-on-writing-margin-call-and-jeremy-irons
30 comments
I feel a little stupid for asking... but what does "kabuki theater" mean in this context? Do you mean the CEO in the scene sort of "acted a rehearsed show" in a meeting to make sure everyone in the room followed through some thought process? Or maybe in other words (guessing meaning): making people get up and talk to force them to think through something (CEO's real goal), but the CEO framed it as him simply asking questions? (I have not seen the movie or the scene, apologies if the meaning is more obvious to infer if one has seen it).
I tried googling it but I get some movie theater in San Francisco and a Wikipedia page describing it as a Japanese theatre with dancing and elaborate costumes and flair. I've not seen it used in an expression before.
I tried googling it but I get some movie theater in San Francisco and a Wikipedia page describing it as a Japanese theatre with dancing and elaborate costumes and flair. I've not seen it used in an expression before.
“Kabuki Theater” usually cynically implies some political posturing. That someone is putting on a show for the audience. It doesn’t imply rehearsal.
E.g. Someone might say that politicians arguing energetically about gun violence are playing it up for their constituents and don’t actually care about the issue. It’s all a performance, neither side actually cares if anything is accomplished. It’s a show for their constituents.
I’m not sure it’s the most apt phrase for the scene but it’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie.
E.g. Someone might say that politicians arguing energetically about gun violence are playing it up for their constituents and don’t actually care about the issue. It’s all a performance, neither side actually cares if anything is accomplished. It’s a show for their constituents.
I’m not sure it’s the most apt phrase for the scene but it’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie.
I think maybe the "Kabuki" modifier additionally implies the performance has a rigid structure that has been repeated identically many times before.
That movie is absolutely excellent in all too many aspects, but the one I like most (and most relevant for the HN crowd, I think) is the politics in the business. Thanks to amazing script and stellar performances you get it all:
* Unfair blanket layoff precluding a senior person from alerting anyone * One of the senior execs being made the scapegoat, framed by her evident accomplice in the scheming * Engineers who become quants * Locking people up in a room to make sure they do not spill the beans to anyone
I think Margin Call deserves to be on the same rung of the ladder as LA Confidential - a timeless classic, and some of the cast as well!
* Unfair blanket layoff precluding a senior person from alerting anyone * One of the senior execs being made the scapegoat, framed by her evident accomplice in the scheming * Engineers who become quants * Locking people up in a room to make sure they do not spill the beans to anyone
I think Margin Call deserves to be on the same rung of the ladder as LA Confidential - a timeless classic, and some of the cast as well!
Okay, now that makes sense. I actually put your example of gun violence in google with kabuki theater and that found me some (depressing) articles that use the phrase. Thanks for educating me on a new expression :)
Consider the plot and consider it is loosely based on real events.
Also: it’s a highly quoted movie on YouTube where copyright has not been strictly enforced.
Every part of it is a specific area of the business: the lay offs, the move forward after them, the analyst crunching the data, the gathering after his discovery, the communication, the meetings and the decision making.
All of it from the perspective of a financial institution, knowing what we know: I wonder what would have happened if that movie happened 15 years before the crash and the public perception of the content (probably dismissed as “too Hollywood”).
Also: it’s a highly quoted movie on YouTube where copyright has not been strictly enforced.
Every part of it is a specific area of the business: the lay offs, the move forward after them, the analyst crunching the data, the gathering after his discovery, the communication, the meetings and the decision making.
All of it from the perspective of a financial institution, knowing what we know: I wonder what would have happened if that movie happened 15 years before the crash and the public perception of the content (probably dismissed as “too Hollywood”).
It's also a phenomenal movie.
I think Margin Call is my choice for a “perfect” movie. It isn’t the most exciting, or impressive, or dramatic, or ___ film, but - it has absolutely no filler, every line of dialogue is exactly the right combination of explanatory and realistic, and the casting is incredibly spot on, especially considering that it’s an ensemble cast of big name stars. That’s as close to perfection as it gets IMO.
This is a great movie. Spacey is great but Jeremy Irons is fantastic. I really like the speech where he says "Speak to me like I was a golden retriever."
Margin Call - The traders perspective
The Big Short - Banking, investor, hedgefund perspective
Too Big to Fail - Government perspective
Most of my friends dont like any of the these. Even those who somehow got through them liked Big Short most.
For me Big Short is the last on that list. Margin Call being first by a long short and then Too Big to Fail.
The Big Short - Banking, investor, hedgefund perspective
Too Big to Fail - Government perspective
Most of my friends dont like any of the these. Even those who somehow got through them liked Big Short most.
For me Big Short is the last on that list. Margin Call being first by a long short and then Too Big to Fail.
I enjoy The Big Short more for it being a story about how dysfunctional the housing market had become.
Margin Call hits the spot without becoming overly pompous like The Big Short.
Its story is centered around Goldman Sachs.
And make no mistake Wall Street gambles full well knowing that the government will save them - Steve Bannon was right on the spot about that.
And make no mistake Wall Street gambles full well knowing that the government will save them - Steve Bannon was right on the spot about that.
It's a fantastic movie and Irons puts on a masterclass. I don't think I've seen Zachary Quinto in anything recently - seemed like he was huge in the early 2010s, going from Heroes to this to Star Trek
Wall Street is better imo, it is just relevant to the times of GFC versus the corporate raiders of the 80s
I also enjoyed Too Big to Fail, which was the perspective from the Fed and the big bank CEOs point of view.
This is no surprise, because people watched Oliver Stone's 1987 "Wall Street" and took home the message "greed is good". Michael Douglas played his part all too well.
I‘m no expert in this area, but isn’t it by now an agreed-upon insight that a society of people working towards selfish interests end up unintentionally bettering circumstances for the society at large?
It very much is not.
And what's the specific alternative you propose or claim superior in a practicable sense?
The notion of people working for their selfish interests in a way that fosters cooperation and improvement on a larger scale gets treated to caricature interpretation often, but under that, there is a lot of evidence for it. Go ahead and describe a contrary viewpoint.
The notion of people working for their selfish interests in a way that fosters cooperation and improvement on a larger scale gets treated to caricature interpretation often, but under that, there is a lot of evidence for it. Go ahead and describe a contrary viewpoint.
If I set aside the unnecessarily confrontational tone of your message, modern China is a pretty good exemple than semi-planned economy with controlled competition can work to raise the standard of living of a population and is an alternative to free market capitalism.
The inability of free market capitalism to regulate its own externalities doesn’t really plead in its favour either but I can’t say other systems have fared better there.
Anyway, I would hazard that most people in the world don’t work strictly for their selfish interests anyway but rather for a mix of their family, community while trying to apply their own moral to the best of their ability to foster a better world. Therefore reducing free market economies to selfishness on an individual level seems misguided.
While somehow trendy amongst part of the American population nowadays, the Randian idea of selfishness being for the best is not actually supported by much.
The inability of free market capitalism to regulate its own externalities doesn’t really plead in its favour either but I can’t say other systems have fared better there.
Anyway, I would hazard that most people in the world don’t work strictly for their selfish interests anyway but rather for a mix of their family, community while trying to apply their own moral to the best of their ability to foster a better world. Therefore reducing free market economies to selfishness on an individual level seems misguided.
While somehow trendy amongst part of the American population nowadays, the Randian idea of selfishness being for the best is not actually supported by much.
Modern China is the epitome of ‘greed is good’. The entire housing market is a speculative bubble of never seen before proportions.
Seriously, what are you talking about?
Seriously, what are you talking about?
It's pretty clear what I'm talking about: just what I wrote.
What is it with this topic that makes people needlessly agressive? I understand you disagree but I'm open to discussion.
To get back to my original point, I think modern China is actually pretty far from 'greed is good'.
It's an autocratic country where the central party has a tight leash on the economy and which doesn't hesitate to make CEOs disappear when they get too rich and powerful. Population movement is strictly controlled and central planning is very much alive and kicking in the more rural part of the country.
Even the housing market bubble was propped by state owned companies with state owned banks money which is why it's not exploding spectacularly.
Viewing China has a free market economy is a mistake. It's a mixed socialist market economy and under Xi that means a lot of socialism with a dash of free market.
To get back to my original point, I think modern China is actually pretty far from 'greed is good'.
It's an autocratic country where the central party has a tight leash on the economy and which doesn't hesitate to make CEOs disappear when they get too rich and powerful. Population movement is strictly controlled and central planning is very much alive and kicking in the more rural part of the country.
Even the housing market bubble was propped by state owned companies with state owned banks money which is why it's not exploding spectacularly.
Viewing China has a free market economy is a mistake. It's a mixed socialist market economy and under Xi that means a lot of socialism with a dash of free market.
The folks in the CCP are the ones getting rich. That doesn’t make it any less ‘greed is good’. It just adds the extra frosting of ‘government corruption’ on top.
That said gov’t can throw billionaires under the bus and use elements of the state to prop the system up may look nicer - but the average person still ends up losing/paying. We’ll see in a decade what that really looks like eh?
That said gov’t can throw billionaires under the bus and use elements of the state to prop the system up may look nicer - but the average person still ends up losing/paying. We’ll see in a decade what that really looks like eh?
I think greed is good for society in the same way that nuclear reactions bring lots of energy. That is to say, it does, but left unchecked it brings destruction.
and that's why everyone should be given the same opportunity to get greedy. It's bad for society if only some people get the opportunity.
However, the outcome doesn't have to be that everybody gets rich.
However, the outcome doesn't have to be that everybody gets rich.
Up to certain point, but underlying scenario in this movie pretty clearly proves that lot of greed ends up being just greed. Moving numbers around and not actually producing much real value. Were greed to make money from MBS products really needed? Well there was lot of extra debt to spend on consumption, but clear example of it not lasting forever.
Speculation and gambling is greed and not useful sort. Building new factory because you think you can make money is much better sort of greed.
Speculation and gambling is greed and not useful sort. Building new factory because you think you can make money is much better sort of greed.
No? Agreed upon by who? Only libertarians idolize self interest to such a degree as to treat it as some type of natural law.
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By the second or third time watching it, I realized how much of the boardroom scene is kabuki theater. The CEO makes people get up and say their parts not necessarily to learn new information, but to milk the moment and bring everyone through a thought process. I think he knew what he wanted to do before he walked through the door. But he needed everyone else to understand the problem and believe in the drastic solution.