Ask HN: legally start a Bay Area startup without being American?
16 comments
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
As a Canadian you have some visa categories open to you that others do not. I don't know anything about those so cannot comment on them further.
However, the US has the E-2 Treaty Investor visa for situations like this - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa and http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1273.html .. Canada is a treaty signatory. There's quite a lot to it, but essentially it allows you to enter and work within the US to control an investment. Investment must be "significant" with respect to the sort of business it is (so if you were opening a steel mill, $200k probably wouldn't cut it, but a software company? Theoretically it could be as little as $100k). There was a post linked from HN recently about a British group of guys who used the E-2 successfully to set up a company in the Bay Area.
Alternatively, you could work on your company in Canada for a period of a couple of years then open a US branch/subsidary and transfer to it through an L visa.
The short story, though, is that it's really, really hard and generally rather expensive, unless you have access to some Canadian focused visa class I'm not aware of. Going to work at an established American company is not particularly hard (assuming you have a degree) but anything beyond that involves a great deal of pain. I've been investigating moving to the US as a self employed person for about six years now and am still not close to discovering a good route (with "save $250k in cash" as my current, tricky to attain fallback position).
As a Canadian you have some visa categories open to you that others do not. I don't know anything about those so cannot comment on them further.
However, the US has the E-2 Treaty Investor visa for situations like this - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa and http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1273.html .. Canada is a treaty signatory. There's quite a lot to it, but essentially it allows you to enter and work within the US to control an investment. Investment must be "significant" with respect to the sort of business it is (so if you were opening a steel mill, $200k probably wouldn't cut it, but a software company? Theoretically it could be as little as $100k). There was a post linked from HN recently about a British group of guys who used the E-2 successfully to set up a company in the Bay Area.
Alternatively, you could work on your company in Canada for a period of a couple of years then open a US branch/subsidary and transfer to it through an L visa.
The short story, though, is that it's really, really hard and generally rather expensive, unless you have access to some Canadian focused visa class I'm not aware of. Going to work at an established American company is not particularly hard (assuming you have a degree) but anything beyond that involves a great deal of pain. I've been investigating moving to the US as a self employed person for about six years now and am still not close to discovering a good route (with "save $250k in cash" as my current, tricky to attain fallback position).
As far as I know, the only benefits of being Canadian are the TN visas and a slightly faster route towards H1-B status. But both of those are for professionals working for some sponsoring company.
From my experience, this last paragraph is an accurate description. Any solution to the problem is going to require somewhere in the low to mid six digits to make it work.
Hi, I've been in the same shoes as you.
As far as your options: having an American co-founder or business agent is a good start.
However, regardless of what option you choose to pursue to enter the US as a Canadian, I would recommend if you are bootstrapping your own venture, that it would be best to get to profitability or at least a promising product before exploring your options for working and living in California. It is not only expensive, but very time consuming to work out the details. It's definitely worth all the trouble, but focus on your company and product first.
I hope it works out for you.
As far as your options: having an American co-founder or business agent is a good start.
However, regardless of what option you choose to pursue to enter the US as a Canadian, I would recommend if you are bootstrapping your own venture, that it would be best to get to profitability or at least a promising product before exploring your options for working and living in California. It is not only expensive, but very time consuming to work out the details. It's definitely worth all the trouble, but focus on your company and product first.
I hope it works out for you.
Don't take this as legal immigration advice, but:
1. Create product on the side while working for someone OR move back to Canada and work on it full-time
2. Start an LLC (non-US citizens can do this, and C-corps)
3. Raise money or become profitable (actual amount varies, some say $200k or more)
4. Find a business co-founder and other employees
5. Sponsor your visa and come back to the US or go fulltime with your own co.
6. PROFIT !!! (oh, wait, that was step 3...)
I'd suggest getting the proof of concept done, and then worrying about everything else. Execute first, ask questions later.
1. Create product on the side while working for someone OR move back to Canada and work on it full-time
2. Start an LLC (non-US citizens can do this, and C-corps)
3. Raise money or become profitable (actual amount varies, some say $200k or more)
4. Find a business co-founder and other employees
5. Sponsor your visa and come back to the US or go fulltime with your own co.
6. PROFIT !!! (oh, wait, that was step 3...)
I'd suggest getting the proof of concept done, and then worrying about everything else. Execute first, ask questions later.
I think that unless you are investing a large sum to start this business and can indicate that it will benefit the local area (e.g. that it will employ a lot of people), your best bet would be to get a job and have your employer sponsor your immigration.
On that note, it may just be (substantially) easier to start your business in Canada. Are there specific reasons you want to start your business in the Bay Area, aside from personal preference?
On that note, it may just be (substantially) easier to start your business in Canada. Are there specific reasons you want to start your business in the Bay Area, aside from personal preference?
The reasons to stay in the Bay Area are mostly personal. I have more friends here than back "home" now. I can demo to people every day of the week if I want. I like the city and the culture. And this is an amazing area for the concentration of talent that I'll eventually want to bring on board.
I have lived in Vancouver and I'm not going to knock it, all kinds of cool things have come out of there, and the lifestyle is great too. But where is my Maker Faire? My functional language discussion groups?
To me, this is an attempt at lifestyle design. If I just wanted to grind away at something without my friends and preferred hangouts in close reach... well, that's not enough right now.
Perhaps the idea of 'lifestyle design' is incompatible with starting a new venture. I suppose I have to just sacrifice everything for the good of the idea?
I have lived in Vancouver and I'm not going to knock it, all kinds of cool things have come out of there, and the lifestyle is great too. But where is my Maker Faire? My functional language discussion groups?
To me, this is an attempt at lifestyle design. If I just wanted to grind away at something without my friends and preferred hangouts in close reach... well, that's not enough right now.
Perhaps the idea of 'lifestyle design' is incompatible with starting a new venture. I suppose I have to just sacrifice everything for the good of the idea?
Why not be a Toronto-based startup, also doing busines in SF?
Well, I don't know what you mean by "doing business" in SF. If you mean the LLC is technically founded in Canada and just happens to have an SF branch, maybe that would be fine. But, that seems legally dubious to me.
Why not just startup in Toronto? I'm actually a Bay Area boy who lives in Toronto; I came here to do his Master's at U. of Toronto. I've stayed ever since working for a startup, and my roommate is about to start a company with his fellow labmates as well. There is a great community of startups here, and lots of amazing talent from U. of Toronto and Waterloo.
Because I am from Montreal. Living in Vancouver is one thing, but going to Toronto means I'm a vendu. ;)
Care to point out a few examples - just genuinely curious. In 02 things seemed pretty dry - mostly finance or glorified IT gigs.
Hey bro, i am singaporean, and I have a bay area startup. My co-founder has a green card. I started a company,and I am working here on a temp work visa. Not ideal, but works. let me know if you want more details
Some have advised that I create some sort of corporation, technically owned by an investor or someone else I trust, of which I'm an employee. That's a bit scary to me for obvious reasons. At the moment I don't have an American co-founder I trust enough. (I know that according to pg's criteria this means the whole thing is a non-starter anyway, but let's assume that I'd get some co-founders later once I had a spiffy proof of concept.)