Why do I have to demonstrate anything? I've made my argument and nobody has refuted anything I've said. They've just kept on with their post-hoc rationalisations. Tell me why it is okay to take from those that do work and fund those that won't?
> There are economic models that support a variety of liberal crackpot and old school approaches plus everything in between.
More economic models. That have that never work. When are people going to learn that you cannot make wealth out of thin air?
> There MUST be a better alternative to what we have today.
There is. But what I consider better alternatives are very different from what you would consider better alternatives and you definitely won't like what I would propose.
Doom Eternal while it works pretty well does have significant artifacts in some levels. There is also some weird bugs that don't exist on Windows and significant performance drops (game goes into single digit framerate) which again doesn't happen on Windows 10. Doom Eternal needs a high framerate to be played properly. I have a 1080Ti, I shouldn't have frame drops.
I been playing a lot of Doom Eternal (clocking over 40 hours in game) while in Quarantine and I've played it both on Arch Linux and Windows 10. My rig is pretty good (Ryzen 7 3700X and a 1080Ti).
Also if you have kernel.modeset=1 as a kernal parameter on to get Wayland with Nvidia, proton just doesn't work as it can't load up the vulkan libs (this is me going through the steam logs). I believe Pop_OS! does this, however I switched to Arch Linux now.
So I have to choose playing games with screen tearing while scrolling in Firefox or smooth Firefox with no-games.
> Just admit that your idea of good politics is putting people out in the street and let them figure it all out. Apart from that, we're probably on the same page.
When people like yourself start putting words into my mouth. It is time not to bother conversing any longer. Goodbye.
> Neither does getting money without labour mean that a UBI is wrong in principle.
Yes it is. Because they are taking wealth from people who do work. Everyone sidesteps this and tries to justify it as being virtuous by citing things that are post rationalisations.
It will also make people more dependent on the government which gives more power to politicians (those who will want to be elected will simply promise to increase the UBI) and we go further down the road to tyranny.
> Those who work wouldn't necessarily be taxed, so they don't need to support those unable or unwilling to work.
We all know that those who work will be taxed more highly as that is the simplest way. It will have to be quickly as it has to be done within a few years (because that is a term limit of most politicians).
> The world today has the wealth to pull this off.
No the world today is very good at printing money, which destroys the middle class (as their savings and investments become increasingly worthless). Without the middle class you typically don't have people with disposable income which is normally used on goods and services, so you end up with less actual wealth in the economy.
> The government (or some other entity) could employ people to generate wealth like traditional corporations do today.
Governments do not generate wealth (it only takes from others and enriches the bureaucracy). Why would another entity freely give away its money?
> So the billions tied up in mega corps could be used for something that actually moves us on as a civilization.
I love how people can post-rationalise that right is wrong. It is very clever, but you are being dishonest with yourself.
It is simply wrong to take from others who work to those who cannot be bothered to work. Everything you do afterwards is trying rationalise your desire for UBI because you believe it to be virtuous.
They can find another job, they can start their own business, they can get contracts for their labour, if they are talented they can get patrons. There are alternatives, just because you have fallen for the siren song of UBI doesn't mean it is the only way.
> You aren't seeing the forest for the trees. That bit of welfare going to people who maybe don't deserve it? It's nothing compared to the money that goes to corporations to keep people working in jobs that make no economic sense.
Get rid of corporatism as well. Any politicians to be seen to be paid off (and I don't doubt there are quite a few) should be locked up. Corporations can that are inefficient can only survive because there isn't a fair market place and this is facilitated by politicians.
> That money is not only taken from you, it's taken from generations to come through debt. You're the sucker, either way!
At the moment it is getting taken from me. I can see it in my accounting. So don't tell me it isn't when it very clearly is.
> Now, do you want to make things worse to enforce some idea of "fairness"? That's the essence of socialism.
Oh please. This is ridiculous. I am not saying it should be fair, I am saying that in principle it is wrong to allow those that do not want to work to do nothing and be supported by those that do do the work. Doing something on principle isn't fairness. I don't like corporatism and those politicians that sold us down the river should be rotting in a prison cell.
>That's survivorship bias. Depending on the business, it would be unwise to take all the risk, relative to the limited reward. I hope you managed to save enough for your retirement, unlike most small business owners.
Claiming survivorship claim is a bit of a meme on here and your usage is utterly ridiculous, in fact it must be some sort of fallacy to claim this every-time someone simply say "You can do this without the government" they parrot survivorship bias because they read the wikipedia entry the week before.
I am a contractor (and I sub-contract to others). There are plenty of small businesses that do fine and it is trivial to setup a pension and investments through you business (took me an afternoon on the phone). This does however require you to read up on things, and take responsibility and think ahead.
> If you want real capitalism where workers don't have all these rights that prevent an efficient economy, inevitably some workers will be in a dire economic situation and will have to take any job, lest they starve. That's an exploitable situation. I suppose you don't want that.
The reality is that some people will have to work jobs they don't like. I've done it. That still isn't exploitation, it is called life mate. There are some thing that you won't like doing. I don't like working with legacy systems but most of the work involves working with them.
> I'm not arguing for Marxism, I'm arguing to get rid of the entitlements and most of the worker's rights, but in turn give them a simple safety net, a very modest means of living, so that they don't have to take or keep a bad job - especially not those artificial jobs created by corporate welfare.
"I am not arguing for socialism. I am arguing for redistributing wealth by taxing the upper-middle class further". The elites never pay these taxes (I wouldn't if I was soo rich I could pay an army of accountants to work out how to move my wealth to a tax haven).
Also when people say "corporate welfare. I am starting to suspect that it means "I don't like my boring job at global-corp, therefore if we had UBI I could read reddit at home instead and post pictures on r/unixporn instead of having to pretend to be working".
> You must understand that keeping people working in uneconomical jobs is more wasteful than just giving them money to do nothing, because on top of it costing taxpayer money, it also costs people's time.
No you must understand we have to end collusion between Government and Business. UBI will make people more dependant on Government. Once that is ended, if the job is uneconomical and there is no corporatism the problem will resolve itself as eventually businesses will have to innovate their processes if they want to stay competitive.
I don't see it that way though. I have many relatives that are government scroungers. Some of them are criminals. These people just don't want to work and will do anything they can to not work. No amount of coaching will help them. They spend their time getting drunk and high (usually around their own children) which will produce another generation that think it is okay to be scroungers.
I understand these people very well (I grew up with them). I find that those that advocate for these types of programs that you refer to, to be very naive or willingly ignorant.
That is wrong as well. Just because huge amounts of money is spent somewhere else, it suddenly doesn't make it okay to give money away to those that are unwilling to work. In short: two wrongs don't make a right.
As I said previously it is a matter of principle. UBI takes from those willing to work and gives to those that are unwilling. I am not talking about people that are unable to work.
I don't care if someone or some studies say that it works out cheaper or it maybe nicer. It is simply not ethical. However I am someone that given the choice between Monarchy and Democracy, Monarchy is the better choice.
> It's also wrong to maintain a poorly working system just to prevent that scenario.
I agree. But that still doesn't mean you have a right to take from those (through the form of taxes) to give to those that are unwilling to work.
> It's good if people want to work, but if they perform useless work, they're better off receiving money for nothing and maybe educate themselves. That's strictly less wasteful.
I had a job and went to university, I unloaded lorries in a warehouse it was very boring. I still spend a lot of my time outside of work reading, coding etc.
People typically have 4-6 hours plus the weekend so another 32 hours to educate themselves, yet most choose their time watching netflix, playing theirs Playstation etc, going to the bar (nothing wrong with those in themselves btw). Online courses are inexpensive these days and it is literally at your fingertips. Before there were online courses people used to go to night schools to learn. The opportunities are there but people choose not to pursue them, that is up to them.
> If property prices in the UK weren't inflated by debt-financed monetary policy served to protect those who already own them, you could've also bought a property years ago.
There are many reasons why property prices in the UK are ridiculous. However if wasn't taxed to the high heavens I would have been able to afford it sooner regardless of why the prices were high. In any event, it was just an example of how I could have spent my money differently that would have directly benefited me.
> If people know they can fall back to a modest basic income,
I run my own business, I took a risk. I didn't need the government to help me. The willingness to take risks and better yourself doesn't need the government to be involved.
>They will be able to refuse jobs that exploit them.
I hate it when people use this rationale. You get paid for going to work. You have plenty of rights at work. You are not exploited. You sign up willingly to work. It isn't exploitation. I don't buy into this whole "capitalism exploits the workers" marxist thought process.
No. It is wrong to take from those who want to work to give to those that don't want to. I already pay almost good portion of my earnings to the government to see it squandered on nonsense (e.g. look up the HS2 project in the UK). I am just about to buy property (I've been working now for 20 years and 15 as a software engineer), If I hadn't been paying as much tax I could have bought a property years ago.
Having a form of UBI will increase the tax burden on medium to high earners such as myself. I simply don't believe it is ethical to offer UBI i.e. you are taking my earnings to fund those that unwilling to work, even if it is a tiny percentage it is still wrong on principle.
I don't mind my taxes providing a support mechanism for those that are unable to work due to a disability, illness or simply becoming too old to work or have become unemployed for no fault of their own (e.g. business foreclosed).
Some places are super locked down when it comes to what software you can install. For example it took me a month to have pandoc, vim and a few other tools (GNU Tree) and a few other pieces of software installed by IT because it had to be approved by 2 layers of management, approved by IT Security and then it was installed on my PC.
If you are working remotely they will give you a machine that VPNs into another machine.
I assume if the PC isn't mine e.g. machine provided by employer, or the box isn't mine (router from ISP) It is probably has telemetry of some sort. I also expect device s like a phone/pager etc from an employer to be monitored in one way or another.
While retro-brighting does make it look nice, it can make the plastic brittle. Also on some old computers (Atari STs) you can damage the look permanently if you use even slightly the wrong solution (many people use the Hydrogen Peroxide from ladies hair bleaching producs and it not advisable on some models). It also takes a fair bit of effort and if you aren't in sunny climate the process can be very slow.