EU to force Apple to switch to USB-C standard(politico.eu)
politico.eu
EU to force Apple to switch to USB-C standard
https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-wants-apple-to-fall-in-line-with-common-charging-solution-by-2024/
48 comments
But they didn't keep their 30pin thing around for a long time. There was a huge number of people who got devices with that connector and got fd by Apple. The longer Apple waits with USB C the worse it will be. I have the feeling they want to get rid of the connecter all together but couldn't get it to work yet.
Lightning was a way to lock down who can make 3rd party devices. Apple doesn't care if you can connect something both ways. Look at what they did with mag safe, every one loved it, yet they canned it.
Lightning was a way to lock down who can make 3rd party devices. Apple doesn't care if you can connect something both ways. Look at what they did with mag safe, every one loved it, yet they canned it.
But they didn't keep their 30pin thing around for a long time.
Nine years? Is that not a "long time" to you, or am I misunderstanding the point you're driving at?
Nine years? Is that not a "long time" to you, or am I misunderstanding the point you're driving at?
The 30-pin connector wasn’t around for 9 years. That’s the one prior to Lightning.
I'm well aware of which connector it is, I've still got cables lying around. There are also multiple sources that will tell you that 30-pin came out in 2003, and then Lighting in 2012.
Ah, I forgot that it was used by iPods as well. In fact, I completely forgot about iPods altogether. Suddenly I miss the tactile feel of their scroll wheels.
Maybe I’ll finally get an iPod.
Maybe I’ll finally get an iPod.
Right. 30 pin was around for 11. 13 in India.
>Now they are getting flak for not switching to USB-C, but just looking at some devices (Nintendo Switch comes to mind) maybe it's not the best user experience.
Can you expand on the Nintendo Switch, I don't understand why the NS doesn't provide the best user experience due to USB-C? If you're talking about the bricking from using third party chargers/docks I always thought that was due to Nintendo implementation of it, not the standard itself.
Can you expand on the Nintendo Switch, I don't understand why the NS doesn't provide the best user experience due to USB-C? If you're talking about the bricking from using third party chargers/docks I always thought that was due to Nintendo implementation of it, not the standard itself.
> If you're talking about the bricking from using third party chargers/docks I always thought that was due to Nintendo implementation of it, not the standard itself.
It was. But here's a simple question:
If I plug my USB-C device in a charger with a cable I found, can I fast charge? Answer is, it depends on the power brick and the cable.
Same question, can I simply get video out with USB-C? Answer is it depends how much of the spec was implemented by both ends and if my cable supports it.
It was. But here's a simple question:
If I plug my USB-C device in a charger with a cable I found, can I fast charge? Answer is, it depends on the power brick and the cable.
Same question, can I simply get video out with USB-C? Answer is it depends how much of the spec was implemented by both ends and if my cable supports it.
As far as I’m aware Lightning doesn’t solve these issues by no other means than just not having the features.
When Apple came up with Lightning the USB-C spec was still years in the future.
I'd argue that the Switch doesn't actually use USB-C, but rather a connector that just happens to be shaped like USB-C, since it violates the USB-IF's standards for USB-C like crazy, and if it conformed to those standards, then it wouldn't have had any user experience problems.
We're all sick of changing cables every couple years, and dealing with a hodge-podge of newer and older devices that require carrying multiple cables and sometimes multiple chargers and adapters, but I don't like the idea of legislating any standards. Apple abuses this constantly and intentionally to sell more stuff, but along the way they (and others) also improve the situation from time to time. USB-C is a clear improvement over its predecessors; it's smaller than USB-A/B; it doesn't have to be inserted in a specific orientation; it's bigger than various micro-USB connectors (in this case that's good; they're so small that they're hard for some people to manage, and it's even hard to see which orientation they're in). USB-C is clearly the best choice right now, and has wide adoption. But something genuinely better is going to come along within a few years, even without Apple artificially breaking standards.
We're all sick of changing cables every couple years
Lightning was introduced nine years ago, so speak for yourself. Of the Apple devices at our house, only the phones and AirPod/PowerBeats cases still take Lightning. The rest are either proprietary (Apple Watch) or USB-C. I'd say it's well past time for Apple to move on to USB-C for the rest of their stuff, but here we are with a recently-announced iPhone, and we'll still have to carry that Lightning cable around for a few more years.
Lightning was introduced nine years ago, so speak for yourself. Of the Apple devices at our house, only the phones and AirPod/PowerBeats cases still take Lightning. The rest are either proprietary (Apple Watch) or USB-C. I'd say it's well past time for Apple to move on to USB-C for the rest of their stuff, but here we are with a recently-announced iPhone, and we'll still have to carry that Lightning cable around for a few more years.
Same.
Plus all of our apple wireless keyboards and touchpads use lightning as well.
Can you imagine the amount of e-waste that would potentially be generated if Apple was forced to switch? I know this is weak argument bc lightning will eventually be EOLed anyways, but I just don't see the value in forcing their hand.
As I seem to be bringing up on weekly basis, if their goal is to reduce e-waste, they should turn their attention to the Android ecosystem. The amount of e-waste I've generated over the years of using Android is almost criminal.
Or to put it another way, the amount of e-waste I HAVEN'T generated while being in the Apple ecosystem is impressive.
At the very least Apple have already switched to USB-C at the other end of the lightning cable and excluded the charging block on new iPhones.
Plus all of our apple wireless keyboards and touchpads use lightning as well.
Can you imagine the amount of e-waste that would potentially be generated if Apple was forced to switch? I know this is weak argument bc lightning will eventually be EOLed anyways, but I just don't see the value in forcing their hand.
As I seem to be bringing up on weekly basis, if their goal is to reduce e-waste, they should turn their attention to the Android ecosystem. The amount of e-waste I've generated over the years of using Android is almost criminal.
Or to put it another way, the amount of e-waste I HAVEN'T generated while being in the Apple ecosystem is impressive.
At the very least Apple have already switched to USB-C at the other end of the lightning cable and excluded the charging block on new iPhones.
Plus all of our apple wireless keyboards and touchpads use lightning as well.
Oh, yeah, forgot about that one. Imagine my disappointment when my new-at-the-time 2019 iMac shows up with its new-to-me shiny USB-C ports, and I...have to use a USB-C -> Lightning cable to charge the HIDs? I mean, I get it, but I was really hoping that items that merely need charging (no data) could move to USB-C along with the ports on my new machine.
Oh, yeah, forgot about that one. Imagine my disappointment when my new-at-the-time 2019 iMac shows up with its new-to-me shiny USB-C ports, and I...have to use a USB-C -> Lightning cable to charge the HIDs? I mean, I get it, but I was really hoping that items that merely need charging (no data) could move to USB-C along with the ports on my new machine.
But move to USB-C why? It’s a larger connector and provides zero additional benefit to iPhone users. iPhone users already have a massive collection of lightening cables from the last 9 years…. Do we just use them to strangle turtles now?
I don't see a problem. Micro-USB has been used for years now. The next few years it will be USB-C then. What's coming after that we do not know yet.
Beside that, Apple might just work around the rule and no longer include a physical charging connector in their devices and go all in on wireless charging for example.
Beside that, Apple might just work around the rule and no longer include a physical charging connector in their devices and go all in on wireless charging for example.
Lets avoid forcing them to do that. Wireless charging sucks in any situation that requires speed or efficiency (e.g., external batteries). I’d also prefer not to liquify my battery due to loss to heat during fast charging.
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Apple gets unreasonable flak for this. They have used 2 proprietary connectors over their entire mobile range since the first iPhone in 2007 (or iPod when the dock connector was introduced in 2003). Each Samsung or Nokia phone I owned until getting my first iPhone in 2010 used a different connector. USB-C sure looks like the future but by the same logic the EU could have force micro USB which was inferior to lightning and would have sucked.
I actually think that as a physical connector, lightning is still better than usb-c. I'm not suggesting that they should keep it around (I long for a full usb-c device life), just that it is a much less fussy connector than usb-c. I don't struggle with blindly insert a lighting cable into my phone or my iPad but frequently will struggle to do the same with a usb-c cable on my macbook pro, despite it being a reversible cable.
I've also had usb-c cables break at the stem of the device while this has never happened with lightning. I'm not certain if this is the nature of the design of usb-c or if it was simply a cheap cable that had no strain relief for the physical connector, but in either case I've never experienced a snapped lightning connector.
The problem with these government mandates is that eventually there will come a new and better connector that phone manufacturers will be blocked from implementing on their phones until after a lengthy legislative process.
I've also had usb-c cables break at the stem of the device while this has never happened with lightning. I'm not certain if this is the nature of the design of usb-c or if it was simply a cheap cable that had no strain relief for the physical connector, but in either case I've never experienced a snapped lightning connector.
The problem with these government mandates is that eventually there will come a new and better connector that phone manufacturers will be blocked from implementing on their phones until after a lengthy legislative process.
That is actually a intentional design element of the USB-C spec... the connectors are intended to fail in a way where the cable takes the hit, rather than the internal connection. That used to be a big issue with USB-A and -B, the internal connections getting torn off of the boards they were attached to. Cables are cheap to replace, devices are generally expensive to repair (hopefully just disassembly and a soldering iron).
USB-C ports have a tongue in the device end which can be damaged. Seen some nintento switch repairs and most of the time its the usb c port thats broken. The iphone in comparison seems to have less going on in the port. It does have the port gripper bits inside the port but I have 7 year old devices that still grip the cable just fine.
I would agree that Lightning feels somewhat better designed. I have a USB-C port for docking my laptop and a USB-C phone and both are somewhat flakey. If I move the cable in a certain way it disconnects. I've tried replacing cables, but to no avail, so it definately seems like the connector is the issue.
I had an iPhone 5S for 5 years before this phone and never had any issues, other than dust getting in, which was easily cleaned.
I had an iPhone 5S for 5 years before this phone and never had any issues, other than dust getting in, which was easily cleaned.
Check your port for lint, i had the same issue with my phone and after scraping out compacted lint from the bottom of the port the cable sits as snug as before
IIRC the last time Apple was forced to switch to USB in Europe they just included an adaptor in the box.
Ironically, as I understand it, Apple was a major contributor to, and advocate for, USB C in the first place! If USB C (especially USB C + Thunderbolt) had existed at the time then Lightning probably wouldn't exist.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple already had plans to migrate its entire product line to USB C by 2024.
Be that as it may, I have a lot of lightning cables and I like being able to charge my AirPods/trackpad/keyboard/iPhone with them. The automatic bluetooth pairing, which I assume is a software feature (PS5 and Switch also have it with USB C) is also something that every device should have.
Ironically, as I understand it, Apple was a major contributor to, and advocate for, USB C in the first place! If USB C (especially USB C + Thunderbolt) had existed at the time then Lightning probably wouldn't exist.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple already had plans to migrate its entire product line to USB C by 2024.
Be that as it may, I have a lot of lightning cables and I like being able to charge my AirPods/trackpad/keyboard/iPhone with them. The automatic bluetooth pairing, which I assume is a software feature (PS5 and Switch also have it with USB C) is also something that every device should have.
Apple is stuck in this crappy half way situation where the MacBook and iPad are USB-C while the iphone and accessories are lightning. Clearly the iPad and Macbook will not switch to lightning so the only way to standardize is to move the rest to usb-c.
Not an iOS user, and all in favor of standardizing everything (within reason...) on USB-C, but couldn't Apple just say "look, we make a USB-C to Lightning cable already"[1] and only ship USB-C chargers to comply?
1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205807
1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205807
Depends on how the directive is worded.
I'd probably write something regulating the charging port on the device and the charging protocol
I'd probably write something regulating the charging port on the device and the charging protocol
Title is a bit off.
They want to force all electronic devices that have a charging port to have this charging port adhere the usb-c standard.
There's a specific exception for e-readers and ... wireless charging.
So what Apple (and others) can (and probably will) do is continue with the port(s) they have now, just dont have that port be a charging port, and charge wireless.
So what Apple (and others) can (and probably will) do is continue with the port(s) they have now, just dont have that port be a charging port, and charge wireless.
I don’t really understand why an exception for e-readers is necessary. Here I was hoping Amazon would finally update the kindle to USB-C.
I think the iphone pro will still have a port and likely usb c. They are pushing it as a film making product now and no one wants to copy 50GB + of video over wifi when you could just plug it in.
They can still use lightning, they just cant have that be the charging port ;-)
Except lightning has been consistent for ~10 years.
USB on the other hand is a complete mess.
Naively, the lightning connector seems better designed. The cable is just a flat wedge that goes into a socket. The usb has an internal wedge/pin in the socket and then has to have something wrap around it. I feel that internal wedge is more susceptible to damage, and then the entire port on the device is cooked, vs a relatively inexpensive cable.
USB on the other hand is a complete mess.
Naively, the lightning connector seems better designed. The cable is just a flat wedge that goes into a socket. The usb has an internal wedge/pin in the socket and then has to have something wrap around it. I feel that internal wedge is more susceptible to damage, and then the entire port on the device is cooked, vs a relatively inexpensive cable.
The problem with the lightning connector is that the springs are inside the device, while the springs are located in the cable in case of USB-C.
Every connector pair has a side on which there are just flat pads, and one which uses some spring-like mechanism to build up pressure in order to make a secure contact to the side with the flat pads. These springs wear out over time and lose their "springiness", it's just a result of material fatigue, and having them on the easier-replaceable side (the cable) makes sense.
Thus, USB-C just made a different trade-off: they chose the design that would not mandate very tight quality control with regard to the material used for the springs, while Apple chose an overall mechanically more robust design, but with this particular weakness that it requires more quality control for the connector parts going into devices. They probably did that because they're the only ones manufacturing that part, hence they are able to ensure quality, which is of course nothing you can expect with an open standard like USB-C.
Every connector pair has a side on which there are just flat pads, and one which uses some spring-like mechanism to build up pressure in order to make a secure contact to the side with the flat pads. These springs wear out over time and lose their "springiness", it's just a result of material fatigue, and having them on the easier-replaceable side (the cable) makes sense.
Thus, USB-C just made a different trade-off: they chose the design that would not mandate very tight quality control with regard to the material used for the springs, while Apple chose an overall mechanically more robust design, but with this particular weakness that it requires more quality control for the connector parts going into devices. They probably did that because they're the only ones manufacturing that part, hence they are able to ensure quality, which is of course nothing you can expect with an open standard like USB-C.
> The problem with the lightning connector is that the springs are inside the device, while the springs are located in the cable in case of USB-C.
Except that in practice I've never seen a lightning device that stops holding cables, and I've seen a lot of broken USB-C cables and ports. Don't forget also that USB-C ports have a fragile tongue inside.
Except that in practice I've never seen a lightning device that stops holding cables, and I've seen a lot of broken USB-C cables and ports. Don't forget also that USB-C ports have a fragile tongue inside.
See the so-called Brussels effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
Isn't this the main reason the EU exists? No individual European nation is big enough to have much global relevance. They had to pool their efforts or be ignored. So they did
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I have long theorized that Apple is planning to go fully wireless. It’s why they killed the aux cable and soon enough they won’t kill Lightning to replace with USB-C — they’ll just go full wireless.
They should get some semblance of order in the USB-c charging cable market, since 90% are out of spec for the current carrying capacity that the phones can handle…
Not to be a weird stick in the mud or anything, but I think the lightning connector is better than the USB-C connector in pretty much every way. IMO this is mandating a functional regression, and they should instead make Apple open up the lightning connector spec to others. USB is a perpetual shitshow.
Apple should just release a patch which disables charging via Lightening for devices sold in Europe. Leave the port there, just for data transfers.
A new iPhone with USB-C would prompt me to buy that model brand new, instead of the 3 year old used models I normally upgrade to. Could be a good sales boost.
I don't like the idea of governments anywhere dictating technical standards like this.
Thank goodness. About time they get rid of the legacy lightning jack
Back in the days every phone had a proprietary charging port. Not every phone manufacturer, no. Every phone model. The only one to have a standard charger was... Apple, with the old Dock connector [0]. It was the same charger as the iPods and spoke the same protocol. It just worked.
Then Apple got a lot of flak for not adopting Micro USB and instead going out with lightning. In retrospect, it was the correct decision: lightning is reversible and support higher current than Micro USB. Re-created the same ecosystem around Lightning for all third party accessories, again, just works.
Now they are getting flak for not switching to USB-C, but just looking at some devices (Nintendo Switch comes to mind) maybe it's not the best user experience.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_connector#30-pin_dock_con...