Public US hearing on UFOs [video](youtube.com)
youtube.com
Public US hearing on UFOs [video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY
234 comments
It's summertime. The 24 hour news cycle needs a boost. A bit of clickbait never hurt, has it?
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David Grusch is a whistleblower claiming that the U.S. military is in possession of recovered alien craft.
AND said that there were biologicals on there that were not from the Earth.
And also said there were individuals whom were injured in the reverse engineering of said non-human spacecraft.
This is all TS/SCI, so the actual hard details and proof are locked in a fucking SCIF.
And also said there were individuals whom were injured in the reverse engineering of said non-human spacecraft.
This is all TS/SCI, so the actual hard details and proof are locked in a fucking SCIF.
hammock(4)
My take is that it's an attempt by the US three letter agencies to get people off of qanon and and onto a far less dangerous conspiracy.
I’m sure it can somehow be combined with pizza. Who invented pizza anyway?
"You really believe pizza exists ? Wake up, sheeple !" ;)
(Sorry, I could not resist.)
(Sorry, I could not resist.)
This is probably more real than an actual alien craft being kept a secret for decades.
Ancient aliens plays on loop on history channel 24/7 on top of a plethora of alien moves being made every year. As well it's the one superstition that all people sort of believe as well. Far right (that isn't hard religious) is deep into these conspiracies. Far left that does shrooms all-day while fondling crystals and playing with tarro cards like Pokemon also like UFOs as well. Even general center left atheist and scientists at least likes the idea of life on a distant plant even if we aren't in possession of an alliance craft.
In school and the work place talking about religion can cause problems with HR/administration or even a lawsuit but you can't get in trouble for talking about aliens.
Even the popular avatar movies tries to mix aliens and religion into an easy native for people even if it's about a human invasion. So much so that people suffer "post avatar depression"
https://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.b...
Aliens in a since is the new "god of the gaps" to help people make since of things we don't fully understand.
Ancient aliens plays on loop on history channel 24/7 on top of a plethora of alien moves being made every year. As well it's the one superstition that all people sort of believe as well. Far right (that isn't hard religious) is deep into these conspiracies. Far left that does shrooms all-day while fondling crystals and playing with tarro cards like Pokemon also like UFOs as well. Even general center left atheist and scientists at least likes the idea of life on a distant plant even if we aren't in possession of an alliance craft.
In school and the work place talking about religion can cause problems with HR/administration or even a lawsuit but you can't get in trouble for talking about aliens.
Even the popular avatar movies tries to mix aliens and religion into an easy native for people even if it's about a human invasion. So much so that people suffer "post avatar depression"
https://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.b...
Aliens in a since is the new "god of the gaps" to help people make since of things we don't fully understand.
There are legitimate reasons to believe that the United States Defense Department has in its possession one or more craft built by non-human intelligences, and has been covering this up for decades. This hearing is to allow witnesses to testify in an effort to move forward in our understanding of the truth to these claims.
There aren't.
There are serious people who think otherwise. You're two word dismissal is not a rebuttal.
There are serious people who believe lots of silly things. Your assertion that someone who you consider serious believes a thing is not a "legitimate reason" to believe the US DoD has alien tech.
And we have mechanisms in place to filter those people out. They seem to be successfully passing those filters. This makes it more likely they are truthful.
I will assume a reply of “that does not guarantee truth/the system is imperfect” has already been given. Of course it doesn’t, and of course it isn’t. There are few guarantees. Passing those filters makes it more likely to be true.
More likely. Not certain. More.
I will assume a reply of “that does not guarantee truth/the system is imperfect” has already been given. Of course it doesn’t, and of course it isn’t. There are few guarantees. Passing those filters makes it more likely to be true.
More likely. Not certain. More.
What mechanics and filters are you referring to? They don't seem to be at all effective.
Serious people are also known to have, from time to time, agendas that steer them away from truth for ulterior motives.
The laws of physics tell us that if is highly improbable for intergalactic intelligence to be able to visit us. Else we need a plausible explanation.
The laws of physics tell us that if is highly improbable for intergalactic intelligence to be able to visit us. Else we need a plausible explanation.
The laws of physics were developed relatively recently. It would not be surprising in the least to discover that a civilization 100,000 years more advanced had figured out how to manipulate the Higgs field, and with it negate the restrictions imposed by relativity.
It is.
People are definitely seeing weird stuff which can't be explained. I personally haven't, but both of my brothers have (one is a police officer, the other is a decorated Navy vet).
The latter brother saw something late at night on the deck of an aircraft carrier. He told me about it shortly after, but a couple years later (the next time I asked about it), he was suddenly evasive and noncommittal. It was the classic "lights in the sky, making right angle turns at high speeds". The other brother saw a huge perfectly silent blue orb slowly drifting over a cornfield.
What's clear is for some reason - possibly good reasons - the Pentagon is stonewalling on any kind of response as to what's going on.
The latter brother saw something late at night on the deck of an aircraft carrier. He told me about it shortly after, but a couple years later (the next time I asked about it), he was suddenly evasive and noncommittal. It was the classic "lights in the sky, making right angle turns at high speeds". The other brother saw a huge perfectly silent blue orb slowly drifting over a cornfield.
What's clear is for some reason - possibly good reasons - the Pentagon is stonewalling on any kind of response as to what's going on.
The cornfield orb could have been ball lightning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
True. I have seen videos of that - seems smaller than what he saw, but who knows?
This type of dismissive attitude is indicative of the stigma that has followed these types of disclosure attempts across the years, and if you were familiar with the three people being interviewed right now, you would realize their credentials supersede yours and are worth being listened to with an open mind.
It would be nice if we could dismiss baseless, extremely unlikely conclusions, without stigmatizing disclosure of information.
I don't want to support stigma, but I also don't want more baseless stuff added to my life (which it is because my family tends to want me to help process the information whenever someone seeks attention, be it the person disclosing information or journalists covering it or internet commentators.)
I don't want to support stigma, but I also don't want more baseless stuff added to my life (which it is because my family tends to want me to help process the information whenever someone seeks attention, be it the person disclosing information or journalists covering it or internet commentators.)
But credentials alone don't prove anything. So sure, let's listen to these guys... but their credentials only get them in the room. After that, it takes actual hard evidence to support these extraordinary claims, IMO.
I want to believe.
No, there aren’t. Everything presented thus far has either been:
- Third hand claims, “I was told by a credible source…”
- low quality imagery whose validity is disputed (gimbal video, etc.)
- Third hand claims, “I was told by a credible source…”
- low quality imagery whose validity is disputed (gimbal video, etc.)
Culturally, everything in the U.S revolves around financial opportunism. When people are poor trapped in gig economy with three jobs, it becomes difficult to rationalize a zillion dollar military….that’s what religion is for, and that’s all this horseshit is
Based on absolutely no evidence, my hunch would be a foreign country trying to create confusion or distrust? Not that difficult to get someone to push ridiculous stories about hidden secrets in the current political landscape.
It’s something to distract from something else.
Yes. Everything that ever happens is a distraction from something else.
I think this is highly likely, as was the "balloon" fiasco.
hammock(1)
[ES: Rumor]
As far as I know, it's to destigmatize the idea of UFO/UAP sightings, and encourage both civilian and military pilots to report them.
So that they can investigated - to identify aerial surveillance platforms, like the infamous Chinese spy balloon, and experimental aircraft.
As far as I know, it's to destigmatize the idea of UFO/UAP sightings, and encourage both civilian and military pilots to report them.
So that they can investigated - to identify aerial surveillance platforms, like the infamous Chinese spy balloon, and experimental aircraft.
I don't know if this is the same wave, but a few years ago they declassified footage from military planes actively tracking UFOs. In the wake of that there was a bit of a flurry of naval and air force personnel saying they've "seen things." The UFO community - of which I am not a part - seems to have been veritably foaming at the mouth ever since.
Personally I'm always more interested in the conspiracy behind the conspiracy. It is undeniably more likely that the Pentagon has, for some reason, started quietly pushing out things in this vein than it is that actual aliens are flying around. I'm very curious as to what their motivation might be.
There's a lot of evidence, for instance, that during the heyday of Area 51 they knew they had to get out in front of civilian sightings of odd aircraft, and that project bluebook was essentially them just cross referencing sightings with classified test flights. So I'm curious about what they might be trying to get ahead of here.
Personally I'm always more interested in the conspiracy behind the conspiracy. It is undeniably more likely that the Pentagon has, for some reason, started quietly pushing out things in this vein than it is that actual aliens are flying around. I'm very curious as to what their motivation might be.
There's a lot of evidence, for instance, that during the heyday of Area 51 they knew they had to get out in front of civilian sightings of odd aircraft, and that project bluebook was essentially them just cross referencing sightings with classified test flights. So I'm curious about what they might be trying to get ahead of here.
Agreed. UFO sighting have an analogue on the religious world where devotees witness miracles and in many cases sincerely believe them and official bodies recognize these miracles. But also in many cases these miracles are concocted by someone with a particular agenda (often commercial).
This UFO/UAP stuff reminds me of that.
This UFO/UAP stuff reminds me of that.
It hasn't been sudden.
The typical response to this subject from most of HN is to discount the possibility of legitimate UAP activity is:
1. Cynicism: "they're doing it for personal gain, it's all a lie."
2. Ridicule: "this is stupid, shut up."
3. Others I'm sure I'm missing.
Regardless, almost no one here is willing to treat this subject with good faith, only to discourage curiosity and encourage dismissive ridicule.
1. Cynicism: "they're doing it for personal gain, it's all a lie."
2. Ridicule: "this is stupid, shut up."
3. Others I'm sure I'm missing.
Regardless, almost no one here is willing to treat this subject with good faith, only to discourage curiosity and encourage dismissive ridicule.
>> Regardless, almost no one here is willing to treat this subject with good faith, only to discourage curiosity and encourage dismissive ridicule.
Yes. The same as -not everyone but many- here will treat magic, homeopathy, osteopathy, chiropody, Christian science (!), voodoo, astrology, tarot readings, palmistry, and other quackery. Being scientifically curious doesn't mean believeing any old bullshit anyone tries to sell you.
Yes. The same as -not everyone but many- here will treat magic, homeopathy, osteopathy, chiropody, Christian science (!), voodoo, astrology, tarot readings, palmistry, and other quackery. Being scientifically curious doesn't mean believeing any old bullshit anyone tries to sell you.
Life is a very well established phenomenon, and there is a high statistical chance of it occurring elsewhere in the universe.
With powerful enough computers and telescopes, scanning other planets for life or intelligent life will become far easier and more successful, and as a species which has only worked on space travel for some 60 years who is to say that one which has worked on it for 100s of years would not be able to travel large distances to explore their indicated "intelligent life" planets.
What confuses some people, and me, however, is the why. But I think we might be overplaying the significance of visitation on their end. We don't consider it significant when we drive from LA to NY as we've been able to for a long time. If you took a caveman during neolithic times across the world in a Ferrari he would probably experience extreme ontological shock. If I had the capacity for interplanetary travel I would definitely use it for my own personal entertainment and curiosity.
Calling this "any old bullshit" and putting it on the same level as magic only further stigmatises the issue, and prevents thorough investigation into the issue and delays increased transparency. Which is the only way to cure speculation, true or untrue
With powerful enough computers and telescopes, scanning other planets for life or intelligent life will become far easier and more successful, and as a species which has only worked on space travel for some 60 years who is to say that one which has worked on it for 100s of years would not be able to travel large distances to explore their indicated "intelligent life" planets.
What confuses some people, and me, however, is the why. But I think we might be overplaying the significance of visitation on their end. We don't consider it significant when we drive from LA to NY as we've been able to for a long time. If you took a caveman during neolithic times across the world in a Ferrari he would probably experience extreme ontological shock. If I had the capacity for interplanetary travel I would definitely use it for my own personal entertainment and curiosity.
Calling this "any old bullshit" and putting it on the same level as magic only further stigmatises the issue, and prevents thorough investigation into the issue and delays increased transparency. Which is the only way to cure speculation, true or untrue
or allocating resources to listen to these things.
I think it's okay to be cynical about this and extremely skeptical. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all we're presented with is "yeah, I think so" and "I can't talk about this in an open session".
How would you suggest one approach this kind of hearing to be considered doing so in good faith?
How would you suggest one approach this kind of hearing to be considered doing so in good faith?
Stop assuming everyone who is speaking into a microphone is lying in one form or another, or too stupid to be trustworthy.
Thousands and thousands of people have experienced extraordinary things over decades and multiple continents. All people here are willing to consider is that there is financial gain to be had, etc. Not that they are actually being truthful, and seeking nothing more than understanding.
Plus come ON. There's a chance that we possess something that can negate the Higgs field. That's huge beyond words.
Thousands and thousands of people have experienced extraordinary things over decades and multiple continents. All people here are willing to consider is that there is financial gain to be had, etc. Not that they are actually being truthful, and seeking nothing more than understanding.
Plus come ON. There's a chance that we possess something that can negate the Higgs field. That's huge beyond words.
Are you asking for good faith, or just faith? A million debunkable/explainable-with-something-else cases is equivalent to zero cases. I mostly see people ask for one, single, hard piece of evidence. In all of the millions. Something that can't be explained much more plausibly.
> Thousands and thousands of people have experienced extraordinary things over decades and multiple continents.
And there are very reasonable reasons for why they think they experienced that. Just go back a hundred years and read what many people believed in back then. Most of which are trivially false (from our perspective).
Heck, religion is still a thing today. More religions than can fit together so if nothing else we know most of them are wrong.
And there are very reasonable reasons for why they think they experienced that. Just go back a hundred years and read what many people believed in back then. Most of which are trivially false (from our perspective).
Heck, religion is still a thing today. More religions than can fit together so if nothing else we know most of them are wrong.
You seem to think the only two options are they're lying or they magically know exactly what they experienced and should be trusted implicitly.
There's a lot more to it than that. People hallucinate and confabulate. People see patterns where there are none all the time. People unintentionally modify their own memories in all sorts of ways whenever they recall them. People believe things with no evidence just because they want to. People embellish their stories to fit the conclusion they want.
There's a lot more to it than that. People hallucinate and confabulate. People see patterns where there are none all the time. People unintentionally modify their own memories in all sorts of ways whenever they recall them. People believe things with no evidence just because they want to. People embellish their stories to fit the conclusion they want.
Extraordinarily claims require extraordinary evidence and reasonably demand healthy skepticism, but HackerNews requires engaging and thoughtful discussion. These threads are constantly full of the same flippantly dismissive remarks, as if it's a novel critique to mention that everyone has a good camera in their pocket these days but hasn't recorded a UFO on it.
HackerNews can be skeptical in interesting, informative ways - the discussion from yesterday of how the superconductor video could have been faked or could be representing something other than a superconductor is a great example. The UFO discussions are usually not that.
HackerNews can be skeptical in interesting, informative ways - the discussion from yesterday of how the superconductor video could have been faked or could be representing something other than a superconductor is a great example. The UFO discussions are usually not that.
The low effort comments on this topic is surprising, considering that this community has many experts in respective scientific fields. There is not much effort to bring deep legal/scientific critical analysis into the subject. Even if this is an extraordinary claim, that it is backed by so many professional witnesses should warrant sincere investigation rather than banter and ridicule.
Hardly. I think most people see that there just isn't any evidence without better physical explanations and that the premise is shaky in the first place. The cynical attitude you echo doesn't get much play because it is incoherent, and I've literally never seen the ridicule you speak of. In other contexts I have seen people with deboned arguments later summarize the experience as being told they were stupid but that was clearly the emotional reality and not in any way connected to a sequence of events.
Part of treating a matter in good faith is understanding when your position is at the very least highly unlikely, or purely speculative. It is not a code word that means other people must treat you as having a good argument, more like they must treat you seriously - and some arguments presented in seriousness are not worth much more than a brusque dismissal.
Part of treating a matter in good faith is understanding when your position is at the very least highly unlikely, or purely speculative. It is not a code word that means other people must treat you as having a good argument, more like they must treat you seriously - and some arguments presented in seriousness are not worth much more than a brusque dismissal.
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There are long tails in the distribution of the universe. I'm not sure where UAP fall in, but this thought exercise from Sagan helps to characterize my skepticism: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage
I don’t pay much attention to the current shenanigans, but bone-headed rationalism has way too much opinions about black swan type of events. There’s never enough data to use reason in the way they think. A low expected value with high uncertainty isn’t a place to swing empiricism around like a sledgehammer.
> There are long tails in the distribution of the universe.
This is exactly the issue. There are no such “tails” on 0 data. Empiricism is a powerful tool, but it’s not universal.
> There are long tails in the distribution of the universe.
This is exactly the issue. There are no such “tails” on 0 data. Empiricism is a powerful tool, but it’s not universal.
I approach the tails as being open to it (a null hypothesis) until data and experimentation can reject -- within reason, as snake oil sales happen.
They probably do have teams to retrieve crashed aircraft/drones/missiles etc being tested. Its not like they are going to broadcast to everyone what is crashing and how often, just cuz random people see things they cant explain.
I think Hume's 'Of Miracles' (1748) provides a good framework here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Miracles
Hume's argument against miracles is based on : 1) The uniformity of nature (the laws of nature are regular and unchanging) 2) The probability of testimony; based on the number and character of witnesses, and circumstances in which the miracle was witnessed. 3)A miracle is defined by Hume to be a violation of a law of nature. Not just very low likelihood events. (Though not explicitly a violation of the laws of nature themselves, Aliens visiting Earth would require violating the laws of nature as we currently understand them)
So, Hume argues, the probability of a miracle occurring is very low and the probability of a false report of a miracle occurring is much higher. Therefore, it is more likely that a report of a miracle is false than that it is true in nearly all circumstances.
I think this argument pretty much holds for Aliens and UFOs too.
Hume's argument against miracles is based on : 1) The uniformity of nature (the laws of nature are regular and unchanging) 2) The probability of testimony; based on the number and character of witnesses, and circumstances in which the miracle was witnessed. 3)A miracle is defined by Hume to be a violation of a law of nature. Not just very low likelihood events. (Though not explicitly a violation of the laws of nature themselves, Aliens visiting Earth would require violating the laws of nature as we currently understand them)
So, Hume argues, the probability of a miracle occurring is very low and the probability of a false report of a miracle occurring is much higher. Therefore, it is more likely that a report of a miracle is false than that it is true in nearly all circumstances.
I think this argument pretty much holds for Aliens and UFOs too.
The most likely outcome is that we won't know much more after the hearing than before (in particular, I do not expect the star witness to come up with any kind of irrefutable evidence.)
I suspect the "U" in "UFO" in still going to strongly mean "Unknown" at the end of the hearing.
The best case scenario is that he hints at which governement agency's official should be ask to testify next - a game that can be played until we reach the "it's classified, wait a few decade" part of the game.
[Edit]: Apparently, (from the live feed of the hearing by the Guardian) he "knows “the exact locations” of where the extra terrestrial material is, "Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses".
And yet, I'm ready to bet the obvious follow-up questions "ok, then, where are the locations ?", and "who are those 40 witnesses ?" will remain conveniently unanswered.
I suspect the "U" in "UFO" in still going to strongly mean "Unknown" at the end of the hearing.
The best case scenario is that he hints at which governement agency's official should be ask to testify next - a game that can be played until we reach the "it's classified, wait a few decade" part of the game.
[Edit]: Apparently, (from the live feed of the hearing by the Guardian) he "knows “the exact locations” of where the extra terrestrial material is, "Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses".
And yet, I'm ready to bet the obvious follow-up questions "ok, then, where are the locations ?", and "who are those 40 witnesses ?" will remain conveniently unanswered.
That was clear to me days ago.
But - what I heard during this hearing was a commitment to set up a reporting system - outside Pentagon influence - to start aggregating these reports and analyzing them.
That's progress I guess.
But - what I heard during this hearing was a commitment to set up a reporting system - outside Pentagon influence - to start aggregating these reports and analyzing them.
That's progress I guess.
It is.
It's also progress that this subject is being treated with the seriousness it so richly deserves.
There is one witness who is claiming under oath, and many others privately to Congressmembers, that we are in possession of craft not built by humans. To my knowledge this directly contradicts to what AARO is publicly claiming.
It's also progress that this subject is being treated with the seriousness it so richly deserves.
There is one witness who is claiming under oath, and many others privately to Congressmembers, that we are in possession of craft not built by humans. To my knowledge this directly contradicts to what AARO is publicly claiming.
> It's also progress that this subject is being treated with the seriousness it so richly deserves.
The X-Files and Ancient Aliens have a lot to answer for.
> ...we are in possession of craft not built by humans.
Aren't KUKA robots awesome?! More seriously - are the aliens only visiting US territories, or is the "cover-up" a global effort that includes coordination between rival nations.
The X-Files and Ancient Aliens have a lot to answer for.
> ...we are in possession of craft not built by humans.
Aren't KUKA robots awesome?! More seriously - are the aliens only visiting US territories, or is the "cover-up" a global effort that includes coordination between rival nations.
The risk is that whatever government agency builds the reporting system will be assumed to be part of "the cover up" by some "truth seekers", so it's not guaranteed to help much.
But, in the general spirit, transparency and oversight from non military part of the executive branch can't be a completely bad thing !
For info, there is something that might look like such a DB in France: https://www.cnes-geipan.fr/fr/recherche/cas . Apart from confirming that most sightings have a perfercly mondane cause, I don't know if it brings much info.
:shrug:, I guess ?
But, in the general spirit, transparency and oversight from non military part of the executive branch can't be a completely bad thing !
For info, there is something that might look like such a DB in France: https://www.cnes-geipan.fr/fr/recherche/cas . Apart from confirming that most sightings have a perfercly mondane cause, I don't know if it brings much info.
:shrug:, I guess ?
The UK did that decades ago for years and then released a bunch of the data.
It was closed because not a single credible sighting was made and was considered a waste of money by the MoD:
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ufos/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22991014
So this has already happened in another country and nothing was found.
So less progress and more a waste of your tax payer money.
It was closed because not a single credible sighting was made and was considered a waste of money by the MoD:
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ufos/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22991014
So this has already happened in another country and nothing was found.
So less progress and more a waste of your tax payer money.
They won’t even declassify tens of thousands of documents surrounding the JFK assassination, do you think they’re really going to release truthful information on extraterrestrials. Not. A. Chance. There is almost certainly a hidden agenda with these disclosures and it has nothing to do with informing the public.
Given that the only truthful information they could have on extraterrestrials would be "we've never seen any"... chances are they might.
The trouble of course, is that moonbats and other whackjobs can't possibly accept that.
If you told me that they'd secretly intercepted an alien transmission (if any of you guys are radio astronomers and it's impossible for such a transmission to be kept secret, let me know) that might at least be plausible. Flying saucers and other nonsense is stuff for children. Grow up.
We've had 20 years of cell phone cameras at this point... where are your pictures? Where are the leaks? They couldn't keep Snowden from blowing shit up about illegal universal surveillance, but they can keep a lid on anti-gravity devices recovered from spaceship wreckage?
The trouble of course, is that moonbats and other whackjobs can't possibly accept that.
If you told me that they'd secretly intercepted an alien transmission (if any of you guys are radio astronomers and it's impossible for such a transmission to be kept secret, let me know) that might at least be plausible. Flying saucers and other nonsense is stuff for children. Grow up.
We've had 20 years of cell phone cameras at this point... where are your pictures? Where are the leaks? They couldn't keep Snowden from blowing shit up about illegal universal surveillance, but they can keep a lid on anti-gravity devices recovered from spaceship wreckage?
> We've had 20 years of cell phone cameras at this point... where are your pictures
Try getting into bird photography using your cellphone. You will find that your photos of birds mere hundreds of feet away suck.
(I spent half a G on a smart telescope and even those pictures are not that great)
It is not as easy as you would think.
Try getting into bird photography using your cellphone. You will find that your photos of birds mere hundreds of feet away suck.
(I spent half a G on a smart telescope and even those pictures are not that great)
It is not as easy as you would think.
If the government is really covering some UFO beings or material I really hope AGI save us.
I have a pet conspiracy theory that some of this nascent AI tech isn’t actually from here. Like sure, there are researchers who came up with transformers, deep learning, and so on, but who’s to say they didn’t get a little help.
If you don't have an extraterrestrial on your AI research team, you will fall behind. I've seen way too many organizations make this mistake.
JOB OPENING.
Fogbeam Labs - Chapel Hill NC. Alien AGI Researcher needed. Must have experience with interfacing quantum neural temporal fields with hydro-coptic marzelvane environments. 9,743,212 years of experience minimum. May work remote IF located beyond the Oort Cloud. Compensation: depends on experience. Bonus paid in genuine Earth cattle.
Fogbeam Labs - Chapel Hill NC. Alien AGI Researcher needed. Must have experience with interfacing quantum neural temporal fields with hydro-coptic marzelvane environments. 9,743,212 years of experience minimum. May work remote IF located beyond the Oort Cloud. Compensation: depends on experience. Bonus paid in genuine Earth cattle.
I have seen this tweet so many times on my timeline, you made me laugh, thanks.
Show me a UFO and an alien and I'll believe it. I've had enough of the podcasts, news articles and "court tv" to know the same amount (very little, nothing concrete) as I did before all of this started.
Hear hear. It's always more smoke and mirrors, claims from individuals, inconclusive, grainy images, yadda yadda. Show me some real evidence.
I've personally seen (with a group of about ~20 others) a TR-3B in 1988 at Truckee Airport in Lake Tahoe Ca.
It rose on the horizon over the mountains, way off in the distance.
Then within about 2 seconds it was hovering directly above us about 100 feet up.
It was huge, silent.
I was marching in my Civil Air Patrol group. Our commander was a former SR-71 mechanic when it was still a top secret program.
He was doing the marchine exercise and when we saw the craft we all watched it - then when it basically teleported directly above us - he very quickly ushered us back into our group hangar.
I've seen others - but this was the closest I have been to one.
It has shaped my reality ever since (I was 14 when it happened, and I am 48 now)
It rose on the horizon over the mountains, way off in the distance.
Then within about 2 seconds it was hovering directly above us about 100 feet up.
It was huge, silent.
I was marching in my Civil Air Patrol group. Our commander was a former SR-71 mechanic when it was still a top secret program.
He was doing the marchine exercise and when we saw the craft we all watched it - then when it basically teleported directly above us - he very quickly ushered us back into our group hangar.
I've seen others - but this was the closest I have been to one.
It has shaped my reality ever since (I was 14 when it happened, and I am 48 now)
How did you know it was a TR-3B??
Based on all the descriptions.
The TR3B wasnt a known class of things back then - but the "triangle with lights at each point" was a typical design trope talked about.
This thing was huge, a triangle, was literally hovering above us. and I could see the details on the bottom.
It wasnt until years later that tr3b came out as the name for the thing.
The TR3B wasnt a known class of things back then - but the "triangle with lights at each point" was a typical design trope talked about.
This thing was huge, a triangle, was literally hovering above us. and I could see the details on the bottom.
It wasnt until years later that tr3b came out as the name for the thing.
Physics does not support intelligent alien spacecraft "flying" around. The logical and simplest answer is the phenomena are terrestrial.
Physics doesn’t make a claim one way or the other.
Statistics makes the claim that aliens are more likely to exist than not.
Statistics makes the claim that aliens are more likely to exist than not.
>Statistics makes the claim that aliens are more likely to exist than not.
"There exists alien somewhere in the universe" doesn't imply "there are aliens visiting us right now", though.
"There exists alien somewhere in the universe" doesn't imply "there are aliens visiting us right now", though.
Our understanding of physics is incomplete.
That is true. And it is possible, in principle, that some new revelations will come along and completely rewrite our understanding of physics, and allow for FTL travel, time travel, transport to "parallel universes" (ala Fringe), etc. But there are good reasons to not expect that, in that the places where our understanding is incomplete mostly deal with "edge" cases - extremes of scale (quantum mechanics), time (origins of the universe / big bang), gravity (insides of black holes), etc. But the physics we have today is otherwise very well tested, and makes incredibly precise and accurate predictions that match extremely well with observed phenomena.
Given that, I think a strong measure of skepticism in this regard is fairly well supported. But, a good scientist should always be willing to change their position if the evidence dictates such, and new evidence can always come along. See: The Problem of Induction.
Given that, I think a strong measure of skepticism in this regard is fairly well supported. But, a good scientist should always be willing to change their position if the evidence dictates such, and new evidence can always come along. See: The Problem of Induction.
> Show me a UFO and an alien and I'll believe it.
UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object" and doesn't necessarily mean anything extraterrestrial.
UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object" and doesn't necessarily mean anything extraterrestrial.
Right, but in this context it's heavily implied.
Wasn't implied, it was said straight up under oath.
I was into UFOs as a kid. Read a whole load of stuff from Erik von Daniken to Nick Pope. Crop circles, that kind of thing. X-Files. Some things gradually became apparent:
- the smartphone era produced fewer pictures of UFOs despite everyone having a camera
- crop circles kind of died out
- in order for information to be suppressed, there had to be a conspiracy that was simultaneously worldwide and watertight, yet itself did not leak like, say, Cold War spies
- a whole plethora of new unevidenced beliefs would sweep across the world
So: Occam's razor tells us that there almost certainly aren't any UFOs.
What, then do we do with the eyewitness accounts?
It also becomes apparent just how unreliable these are. People can become thoroughly convinced that things happened which did not and could not have happened. People acquire all sorts of strange beliefs, sometimes to their detriment. Cults come and wait for landings that never happen, but also serious men in serious jobs have one report in their lives that directly contradicts reality.
It can be a little difficult to deal with how unsatisfactorily the sausage of consensus reality is made, but it's the only alternative to wandering back into Carl Sagan's "demon-haunted world".
- the smartphone era produced fewer pictures of UFOs despite everyone having a camera
- crop circles kind of died out
- in order for information to be suppressed, there had to be a conspiracy that was simultaneously worldwide and watertight, yet itself did not leak like, say, Cold War spies
- a whole plethora of new unevidenced beliefs would sweep across the world
So: Occam's razor tells us that there almost certainly aren't any UFOs.
What, then do we do with the eyewitness accounts?
It also becomes apparent just how unreliable these are. People can become thoroughly convinced that things happened which did not and could not have happened. People acquire all sorts of strange beliefs, sometimes to their detriment. Cults come and wait for landings that never happen, but also serious men in serious jobs have one report in their lives that directly contradicts reality.
It can be a little difficult to deal with how unsatisfactorily the sausage of consensus reality is made, but it's the only alternative to wandering back into Carl Sagan's "demon-haunted world".
> What, then do we do with the eyewitness accounts?
Not only eyewitness accounts, but also recorded military footage (e.g. onboard cameras, FLIR sensors mentioned in the hearing). Are you suggesting that numerous high-ranking former military officials are lying under oath? And that the expensive, high-tech equipment recording the objects also failed in a way that showed something that wasn't actually there? That sounds much more frightening to me than the alternative explanation.
Not only eyewitness accounts, but also recorded military footage (e.g. onboard cameras, FLIR sensors mentioned in the hearing). Are you suggesting that numerous high-ranking former military officials are lying under oath? And that the expensive, high-tech equipment recording the objects also failed in a way that showed something that wasn't actually there? That sounds much more frightening to me than the alternative explanation.
When you say there is recorded military footage, is it publicly available? Or are there just witnesses that say it exists?
Non publicly available that I am aware of, aside from what the Navy released years ago. From what I understand, a big reason for not releasing footage is sensor data that is embedded in the images/videos that if released, would significantly help non-friendly nations to better understand some of our military capabilities.
Well, after the current hearing those non-friendly nations will understand a lot more about the nation's intellectual capabilities and breathe a huge sigh of relief.
Every time they release actual footage (like the gofast/tictac videos from a few years ago), it is not very convincing, with plausible explanations (parallax, etc) for what we are seeing. We are often told that the good videos are still classified. Why is it that only the bad videos are the ones that are released? The shtick is wearing thin.
Uh, did you read my comment? The "good" videos aren't released because they contain sensitive national security information. Doesn't mean they don't exist. Remember the Russian jet that launched flares at a US drone a few months back, and the crystal clear footage that came from that? Footage like that exists for these UAPs too.
> Not only eyewitness accounts, but also recorded military footage (e.g. onboard cameras, FLIR sensors mentioned in the hearing). Are you suggesting that numerous high-ranking former military officials are lying under oath? And that the expensive, high-tech equipment recording the objects also failed in a way that showed something that wasn't actually there? That sounds much more frightening to me than the alternative explanation.
Yes. And those that aren't lying are severely mistaken. Expensive high tech equipment can fail or show weird readings ALL THE TIME. You get small piece of debris on a camera moving at mach 1 and it's going to look like something is moving at mach 1 with you, and somehow magically keeping up in strange ways before "zooming off" when it falls off the camera.
Pilots are NOT techs. Their jobs is to fly the plane and shoot shit down. They need a working understanding of the tools in front of them and do their best with the information presented. If my car says that my engine oil pressure is at 0, but somehow the car is still running, I don't assume magic. I assume ignorance and take it to a mechanic. MANY of these supposed UFO sightings boil down to such situations, and techs have verified that multiple times, but that gets ignored.
Yes. And those that aren't lying are severely mistaken. Expensive high tech equipment can fail or show weird readings ALL THE TIME. You get small piece of debris on a camera moving at mach 1 and it's going to look like something is moving at mach 1 with you, and somehow magically keeping up in strange ways before "zooming off" when it falls off the camera.
Pilots are NOT techs. Their jobs is to fly the plane and shoot shit down. They need a working understanding of the tools in front of them and do their best with the information presented. If my car says that my engine oil pressure is at 0, but somehow the car is still running, I don't assume magic. I assume ignorance and take it to a mechanic. MANY of these supposed UFO sightings boil down to such situations, and techs have verified that multiple times, but that gets ignored.
> You get small piece of debris on a camera moving at mach 1 and it's going to look like something is moving at mach 1 with you, and somehow magically keeping up in strange ways before "zooming off" when it falls off the camera.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the testimonies provided under oath today do not match your description of a piece of debris on a camera/sensor. If you have not already watched the hearing I would recommend it.
> MANY of these supposed UFO sightings boil down to such situations, and techs have verified that multiple times, but that gets ignored.
Source(s)? I would love to read more about techs who have talked about these events.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the testimonies provided under oath today do not match your description of a piece of debris on a camera/sensor. If you have not already watched the hearing I would recommend it.
> MANY of these supposed UFO sightings boil down to such situations, and techs have verified that multiple times, but that gets ignored.
Source(s)? I would love to read more about techs who have talked about these events.
> Are you suggesting that numerous high-ranking former military officials are lying under oath?
Yes? It's not like that hasn't happened before, and there's no real way to contradict them. And if they did they wouldn't be prosecuted. And if they were prosecuted they would be pardoned.
We can't see the footage, so that's not admissible as evidence in the court of public opinion.
Yes? It's not like that hasn't happened before, and there's no real way to contradict them. And if they did they wouldn't be prosecuted. And if they were prosecuted they would be pardoned.
We can't see the footage, so that's not admissible as evidence in the court of public opinion.
Lack of smartphone footage and new crop circles could be easily explained. Perhaps they are not as active around here anymore or have better processes to stay out of sight. (Not that crop circles make much sense to begin with.)
What I consider impossible though is for what is alleged staying secret for this long. Especially internationally.
What I consider impossible though is for what is alleged staying secret for this long. Especially internationally.
I can't stop watching. Such an exciting hearing.
>I can't stop watching.
I think that's the intended result. This is a distraction.
I think that's the intended result. This is a distraction.
Distraction from what exactly?
Everything is a psyop, huh?
Next, we would like to welcome the witness from planet Zorg in the Snoom system. We hope the air here is to the witness’s liking.
Why would it be a state secret if the US (or any other) government had encountered aliens? It doesn't seem like something that would need to be kept secret.
I've been thinking of why the government does not want the public to know about UFOs. My current thought is if the government admitted there was something more powerful than then itself the government's power be questioned and therefore diminished.
He phrased it differently, but I believe it was Grusch presented that as a rationale.
Have you ever heard of Galileo or the Roman Inquisition leading to his indefinite house arrest for "heresy", because of how his scientific astronomical discoveries threatened the catholic church's authority?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair
While I am happy this is happening, its bothersome that he wont reveal the publicly traded enterprises involved in this. We know that its all the typical MIC players, but one thing I cant stand with such hearings is how much smarmy "thank yous" are given in all these - its a passive aggressive fake attitude (virtue signaling).
Adding to the ever growing list of proof why humans just shouldn't survive.
Won't do anything about endless toxins being put into water and air by industry, climate change passing the turning point, will spend millions for hearings on UFOs which wouldn't make an ounce of difference even if real (they aren't, FTL aliens don't give a damn about earth, we're ants and at best they'd send automated drones)
I do admit I would love to see religion destroy itself trying to explain aliens but I'm sure they have a "creations going on elsewhere" in their backpocket just in case. Or they'd just deny it like flatearthers as long as they can get away with it.
Won't do anything about endless toxins being put into water and air by industry, climate change passing the turning point, will spend millions for hearings on UFOs which wouldn't make an ounce of difference even if real (they aren't, FTL aliens don't give a damn about earth, we're ants and at best they'd send automated drones)
I do admit I would love to see religion destroy itself trying to explain aliens but I'm sure they have a "creations going on elsewhere" in their backpocket just in case. Or they'd just deny it like flatearthers as long as they can get away with it.
Considering we all have recording devices now, the most interesting take from my limited perspective is that we have less ghost and ufo sightings than we've ever had.
Also, https://xkcd.com/2572/
Certainly proves that close encounters were largely bs.
But devils advocate, most smartphone cameras have ultra wide lenses and even those with decent zoom perform really poorly, due to shaking, upscaling and awful autofocus. Remember the “super zoom” smartphone that was marketed to take good photos of the moon, but they just faked (overlaid) the details because the native quality was so crap? And the moon isn’t even that small for the human eye. In fact, there are tons of shitty “ufo” recordings that are useless simply because the quality is so shit.
In either case, there is tons of multi-modal sensor data from the Air Force/navy sightings so that’s certainly worth looking into before random people’s smartphones.
But devils advocate, most smartphone cameras have ultra wide lenses and even those with decent zoom perform really poorly, due to shaking, upscaling and awful autofocus. Remember the “super zoom” smartphone that was marketed to take good photos of the moon, but they just faked (overlaid) the details because the native quality was so crap? And the moon isn’t even that small for the human eye. In fact, there are tons of shitty “ufo” recordings that are useless simply because the quality is so shit.
In either case, there is tons of multi-modal sensor data from the Air Force/navy sightings so that’s certainly worth looking into before random people’s smartphones.
And people are already debunking the USAF/USN data:
https://www.metabunk.org/gimbal/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs
https://www.metabunk.org/gimbal/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs
Is it even possible to take decent photos of a potential UFO without a special camera? Whenever I point my phone at the sky the quality is terrible.
There are definitely super-high end phones where the telephoto lens can see better than the naked human eye[1]. The average person might not be in possession of such phones, but the technology is definitely there.
[1] https://www.dxomark.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-ultra-camera-test... scroll to "tele" section.
[1] https://www.dxomark.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-ultra-camera-test... scroll to "tele" section.
I seem to remember a lot of these encounters and or alien abductions taking place at night and the UFO being illuminated.
Aliens wanted to make their spacecrafts go viral but people kept recording shaky, blurry low-res videos so they got tired and went to different civilizations with better filming skills and gear
Except for the military sensors which seem to be reporting more than we've ever seen before.
We have a lion in Berlin though.
Lioness. But actually a boar.
Sorry, gendering isn't my strongest suit yet. However, it's much more manageable in English than it is in German.
That's cool, the correction was minor. The main point was that the lioness was, in fact, a boar. Boars are not an uncommon sight in certain parts of Berlin. Reality was a lot less strange than what the alert and subsequent news initially made it seem.
[deleted]
OK, they are 100% safe and clear to testify. Where's the UFO? Show us. Get a camera on a bus or plane or something and walk us over. This is it, last chance. UFO or shut up.
I absolutely love that Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp are sitting behind them hearing this. They did a lot of the heavy lifting on the issue to get this hearing public, and this is really a triumph for them.
So far David seems to be dancing around his claims.
Hearing just concluded. If you listened to it, what are your thoughts?
It was a whole lot of nothing. Pretty much nothing we didn't already know got announced.
Its not like I was expecting them to reveal aliens, but the whole thing was just a long winded way of saying "we don't know yet lol"
Its not like I was expecting them to reveal aliens, but the whole thing was just a long winded way of saying "we don't know yet lol"
I hadn't been following it all that closely, so the repeat sightings of black squares in a transparent sphere was news to me.
The more interesting one is seeing the signs that there is growing momentum in the government to gain more clearance and potentially make more classified information public. So perhaps this is the amuse-bouche?
The more interesting one is seeing the signs that there is growing momentum in the government to gain more clearance and potentially make more classified information public. So perhaps this is the amuse-bouche?
Except now they have it on legal public record in front of congressmen a testimony that states
- aliens exist - they have recovered technology - they have recovered bodies - there's a shadow government of people approving access to information on a higher level than the government - money is being directly taken out of other projects and/or services to fund UAP projects - there is an active disinformation program in the government directly regarding UAPs - people have been criminally abused by government contractors over this - there's massive mismanagement with government military contractors
Etc etc. If you're a UFO nerd you've heard it all before, but this is pretty big stuff to have on record, and that's the main thing. A lot of that needs to be followed up legally, and it sounds like a lot more is going to be discussed behind closed doors.
- aliens exist - they have recovered technology - they have recovered bodies - there's a shadow government of people approving access to information on a higher level than the government - money is being directly taken out of other projects and/or services to fund UAP projects - there is an active disinformation program in the government directly regarding UAPs - people have been criminally abused by government contractors over this - there's massive mismanagement with government military contractors
Etc etc. If you're a UFO nerd you've heard it all before, but this is pretty big stuff to have on record, and that's the main thing. A lot of that needs to be followed up legally, and it sounds like a lot more is going to be discussed behind closed doors.
Someone saying something on the record doesn't make it true.
Yeah, that's more about emotional validation for the UFO believers than anything about actual facts.
Someone willing to enter into a SCIF with congress regarding these claims is most certainly more than a nothingburger.
I understand the skepticism but really think most of you don't understand that there's a lot going on in this hearing.
I understand the skepticism but really think most of you don't understand that there's a lot going on in this hearing.
Im going to go on the record that the Bush Cabal, with HW Bush killing JFK, and then with his minion, attempted to assasinate Reagan, but failed - then succeeded in the CIA take over of the USA with clinton, Obama, etc - does not make that true - but its all on record...
>aliens exist - they have recovered technology - they have recovered bodies - there's a shadow government of people approving access to information on a higher level than the government
wait... someone testified _under oath_ that these things exist? Either they're lying/exaggerating, or they just announced the single largest discovery in the history of the human race? I feel stupid just typing this...
wait... someone testified _under oath_ that these things exist? Either they're lying/exaggerating, or they just announced the single largest discovery in the history of the human race? I feel stupid just typing this...
> Either they're lying/exaggerating
Or mistaken, or they're accurately reporting what someone else told them, who was lying/exaggerating/mistaken.
Or mistaken, or they're accurately reporting what someone else told them, who was lying/exaggerating/mistaken.
Yep, would probably be the dawn of a new era if proven to be true publicly.
I know, right? Artificial intelligence, Aliens, and.... what would complete the trifecta?
(Please don't say Armageddon!)
(Please don't say Armageddon!)
The year of the Linux desktop?
The only thing more unbelievable than aliens, I am afraid
Could be Armageddon. Maybe they want a new vacation home and they are prepping the battlefield and doing some recon.
I think aliens exist, just not on earth. There's too much out there for this not to be true.
Our first encounter with extraterrestrial life will probably be microbes, exciting but not exactly little green men from X-Files.
Our first encounter with extraterrestrial life will probably be microbes, exciting but not exactly little green men from X-Files.
Here is the question and answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY&t=7626s
Grusch states they have "biologics" that are "non-human" based on people he talked to
Grusch states they have "biologics" that are "non-human" based on people he talked to
> based on people he talked to
So it's a complete nothing burger.
So it's a complete nothing burger.
I guess, if you completely ignore what's been said through this hearing.
There's a reason hearsay evidence is not accepted in courts.
Yeah, technically he could say what he did if they pulled a vial of terrestrial pond scum or a goldfish out of the craft. She should have followed up, not with 'non-human', but with 'non-terrestrial'.
My concern here is that if these testimonies can’t be linked to evidence, the entire subject will be once again be discredited, goodwill from legislators will evaporate and the status quo will remain - that being UAPs being genuine alien devices or no.
The part that never adds up to me is the complete lack of concrete evidence in the open (when there is ubiquitous technology for detection in the hands of the public), or the implied astonishing competence of governments and agencies cooperating internationally to keep alien intelligence hidden. We couldn't prevent a pandemic, have lost nuclear weapons and are watching the planet die due to carbon emissions… yet somehow the alien-intelligence-suppression-network works?
The part that never adds up to me is the complete lack of concrete evidence in the open (when there is ubiquitous technology for detection in the hands of the public), or the implied astonishing competence of governments and agencies cooperating internationally to keep alien intelligence hidden. We couldn't prevent a pandemic, have lost nuclear weapons and are watching the planet die due to carbon emissions… yet somehow the alien-intelligence-suppression-network works?
There is classified physical documentation that the IGIC is in possession of and has spent nearly four years verifying and found to be credible and corroborated by dozens of first hand witnesses over the course of their investigation.
Unfortunately all of that is still classified but congresspeople who have been briefed have been sufficiently motivated to introduce legislation to investigate further (as Chuck Schumer has recently done in the Senate).
Unfortunately all of that is still classified but congresspeople who have been briefed have been sufficiently motivated to introduce legislation to investigate further (as Chuck Schumer has recently done in the Senate).
It could be the phenomenon that has the astonishing competence.
samstave(1)
There is evidence and it has been submitted to the relevant parties.
> they have recovered bodies
My assumption is that they recovered apes placed into advanced test drones. After all, apes were put into early test spacecraft in the 1950s and 1960s. But today animal rights is a bigger concern, and the use of animal test subjects could cause controversy, so they want to keep that quiet. Hence the person testifying would disclose that only in a SCIF.
My assumption is that they recovered apes placed into advanced test drones. After all, apes were put into early test spacecraft in the 1950s and 1960s. But today animal rights is a bigger concern, and the use of animal test subjects could cause controversy, so they want to keep that quiet. Hence the person testifying would disclose that only in a SCIF.
> - aliens exist - they have recovered technology - they have recovered bodies - there's a shadow government of people approving access to information on a higher level than the government - money is being directly taken out of other projects and/or services to fund UAP projects
OK.
> - there is an active disinformation program in the government directly regarding UAPs
Would that active disinformation program include having people go testify to Congress, in front of cameras, and tell them what's in my first quoted section?
More generally, any time someone says "there is a disinformation campaign saying X", there is a greater than zero chance that, yes, there is a disinformation campaign, and that person making that claim is (knowingly or not) part of that campaign.
OK.
> - there is an active disinformation program in the government directly regarding UAPs
Would that active disinformation program include having people go testify to Congress, in front of cameras, and tell them what's in my first quoted section?
More generally, any time someone says "there is a disinformation campaign saying X", there is a greater than zero chance that, yes, there is a disinformation campaign, and that person making that claim is (knowingly or not) part of that campaign.
That testimony was all meaningless, a total nothingburger. No hard evidence. And just because the witnesses testified under oath doesn't mean they were accurate or truthful. If they want to be taken seriously then let's see some actual artifacts or specimens.
I do support continuing the Congressional investigation. Even if there are no aliens, they might find evidence of misuse of government funds or violations of oversight rules. Let's get clear on how our tax dollars are being spent. Members of the Defense and Intelligence committees are cleared at the highest levels so there's no legal reason to conceal the existence of any programs from them.
I do support continuing the Congressional investigation. Even if there are no aliens, they might find evidence of misuse of government funds or violations of oversight rules. Let's get clear on how our tax dollars are being spent. Members of the Defense and Intelligence committees are cleared at the highest levels so there's no legal reason to conceal the existence of any programs from them.
and what about the possession of an aircraft?
Totally disagree.
There was so much "non-revealance" announced.
Every question that must be closed/scif based confirms the darkest thoughts.
We have been in contact with them from the 1930s in the current extant of global governments....
They interfere with sensors, weapons arming and are concerned about nukes.
There have been "very disturbing" incidents with malevolent entities.
Wait till we get to the biologics part...
They DIDNT ask if DNA was recovered or other medical/tissue samples... that should be the fundamental question ; what does their DNA look like, if we had recovored "biologics" and then what was done with that information? Were hybrids being made from them?
They also never ask about breakaway civs.
There was so much "non-revealance" announced.
Every question that must be closed/scif based confirms the darkest thoughts.
We have been in contact with them from the 1930s in the current extant of global governments....
They interfere with sensors, weapons arming and are concerned about nukes.
There have been "very disturbing" incidents with malevolent entities.
Wait till we get to the biologics part...
They DIDNT ask if DNA was recovered or other medical/tissue samples... that should be the fundamental question ; what does their DNA look like, if we had recovored "biologics" and then what was done with that information? Were hybrids being made from them?
They also never ask about breakaway civs.
The only interesting part was they confirmed an active US government disinformation campaign about what UAF information they have.
Mostly that right now is a very interesting time for Grusch to claim that US government rules on document classification are inviolable, even when the stakes would be proving human contact with extraterrestrials.
Anyway, if an interstellar civilization wanted to make contact with Earth, USA couldn't stop them. And in the highly improbable case that USA found a way to prevent their population from knowing, it's only one country, they'd have to convince every other country in the world to do the same.
Let's talk about congressmen insider trading instead.
Let's talk about congressmen insider trading instead.
If all major governments keep it secret, the conclusion would be that the phenomenon wants it that way. The US wouldn't be in charge. But apparently something changed.
Everybody did indeed go insane. Just watch the Braindead series.
A bunch of reiteration of what was previously described.
The one new thing is that David Grusch committed to immediately naming specific people, agencies, and locations where craft are supposedly stored to Congress.
The one new thing is that David Grusch committed to immediately naming specific people, agencies, and locations where craft are supposedly stored to Congress.
Plus his claim that there are engineers with first hand experience also willing to testify to congress in a closed setting.
I am more convinced that modern radar and sensor technology is susceptible to accidental or even malicious interference. And if there is a cover-up, its more likely to prevent harm to the businesses of the contractors and technology providers and to prevent adversaries to learn possible exploits. I highly doubt that there was "visual contact" with those anomalies.
I believe it's more like this proportion.
- 1% really saw something interesting/rare.
- 19% think they saw something interesting that is easily explained.
- 80% liars.
*
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ 1% \
/_________\
/ \
/ 19% \
/ \
/_________________\
/ \
/ 80% \- 1% really saw something interesting/rare.
- 19% think they saw something interesting that is easily explained.
- 80% liars.
It’s even worse. 86% of statistics on the internet is made up on the spot.
Tangentially, I've seen some weird stuff in the sky. I have a blog post on the back burner about how the habit of looking up into the sky has been rewarding to me, and the cool stuff I've seen.
Sometimes satellites have very strange motion relative to your position, similar to planets going retrograde. They can make "J" shapes that look very odd. The first time I noticed this, my friend and I followed it all the way to the penumbra and umbra of the Earth's shadow - it suddenly dimmed as it entered the penumbra, and then completely disappeared as it passed into the umbra. A sure sign of a satellite in orbit.
If you want to spot satellites, the best way I've found is to pick three random stars and imagine them as a triangle. Watch to see if the triangle changes shape - that means one of them is moving. It's very easy to get confused if you're looking at just one star, eg, sometimes the clouds are moving but you mistake the clouds as stationary and see the star as moving. But if you pick 3, even if you have that illusion, you'll see that they don't move relative to each other.
On two occasions - once in Berkeley, CA and once in Athens, Greece - I saw a red light moving through the sky, and I followed it as far as I could but I didn't see it enter the penumbra (which isn't to say it did or didn't, just that I lost sight of it). I just have no idea what that was, or if it was the same on both occasions.
One time my friends and I saw a flashing white light in the sky. It would rapidly increase from 0 to full brightness, and then just as quickly disappear. It stayed in roughly the same place. My friend had a good hypothesis, which was that it was a helicopter with some kind of rotating light.
I think my favorite is that once, I saw an airplane contrail collapse into a series of smoke rings. Contrails often form these clumps of cloud, sort of like rain drops. These ones must have been very circular, because each one became a giant ring.
You can see the clumps I'm talking about here: https://images.all-free-download.com/images/graphiclarge/con...
There's pictures of rings on image search, but it looks like they came from the plane's engine, not from the mechanism I describe.
Sometimes satellites have very strange motion relative to your position, similar to planets going retrograde. They can make "J" shapes that look very odd. The first time I noticed this, my friend and I followed it all the way to the penumbra and umbra of the Earth's shadow - it suddenly dimmed as it entered the penumbra, and then completely disappeared as it passed into the umbra. A sure sign of a satellite in orbit.
If you want to spot satellites, the best way I've found is to pick three random stars and imagine them as a triangle. Watch to see if the triangle changes shape - that means one of them is moving. It's very easy to get confused if you're looking at just one star, eg, sometimes the clouds are moving but you mistake the clouds as stationary and see the star as moving. But if you pick 3, even if you have that illusion, you'll see that they don't move relative to each other.
On two occasions - once in Berkeley, CA and once in Athens, Greece - I saw a red light moving through the sky, and I followed it as far as I could but I didn't see it enter the penumbra (which isn't to say it did or didn't, just that I lost sight of it). I just have no idea what that was, or if it was the same on both occasions.
One time my friends and I saw a flashing white light in the sky. It would rapidly increase from 0 to full brightness, and then just as quickly disappear. It stayed in roughly the same place. My friend had a good hypothesis, which was that it was a helicopter with some kind of rotating light.
I think my favorite is that once, I saw an airplane contrail collapse into a series of smoke rings. Contrails often form these clumps of cloud, sort of like rain drops. These ones must have been very circular, because each one became a giant ring.
You can see the clumps I'm talking about here: https://images.all-free-download.com/images/graphiclarge/con...
There's pictures of rings on image search, but it looks like they came from the plane's engine, not from the mechanism I describe.
I'd like to add that it's really easy to find satellites, so I encourage people to try it. I can usually spot one in about half an hour (though my viewing conditions are about as good as they can be in a city, YMMV). Shortly after sundown or before sunrise is the easiest time, but I've found them at other times of night too.
If I find myself outside at night, I try to spend at least a couple minutes looking for them (or whatever else there is to see, shooting stars, interesting clouds, Zodiacal lights, ...). You'd be surprised how much you can see if you spend a couple minutes regularly over a long period of time, especially relative to the minimal effort involved. (That being the thesis of the blog post.)
If I find myself outside at night, I try to spend at least a couple minutes looking for them (or whatever else there is to see, shooting stars, interesting clouds, Zodiacal lights, ...). You'd be surprised how much you can see if you spend a couple minutes regularly over a long period of time, especially relative to the minimal effort involved. (That being the thesis of the blog post.)
Sounds like Crow Instability that can be seen with large airplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_instability)
https://epod.usra.edu/blog/2011/08/crow-instability-in-contr...
https://epod.usra.edu/blog/2015/05/hybrid-contrails-with-cro...
https://epod.usra.edu/blog/2011/08/crow-instability-in-contr...
https://epod.usra.edu/blog/2015/05/hybrid-contrails-with-cro...
[ES: Informed speculation]
I think it's a different mechanism, I think it's more like when you squeeze a drop of food coloring into water. I think it's something along the lines of, the friction on the outside of the drop and the momentum of the fluid on the inside of the drop impose a force in opposite directions, causing the fluid to spin, resulting in a vortex; because the cross section is a near perfect circle, this rotation is balanced, and you get a toroidal vortex. I imagine that, the bigger your drop, the more error you can tolerate in your circle. So by the time you get to the scale of, say, a caldera[1], there's a lot of room for error. (That's a slightly different mechanism, but I think comparable in this way.)
The photos don't look like what I saw. They weren't oriented like that (they were hanging down like the clumps, perpendicular to the planes direction of motion), and they weren't so well formed. They were more lumpy.
But this was a couple years ago and I didn't take a picture, so I can only go off of my recollection, and my strictly intuitive understanding of the fluid dynamics from the thousands of rings I used to blow smoking Black & Mild in my mispent youth. (You can also see rare and interesting rings that way, but I wouldn't recommend it!)
Very cool stuff that I'm pumped to know about and will look out for though. Thanks!
[1] https://66.media.tumblr.com/e0dd679a1c62751f09e702d8c005b9a1...
I think it's a different mechanism, I think it's more like when you squeeze a drop of food coloring into water. I think it's something along the lines of, the friction on the outside of the drop and the momentum of the fluid on the inside of the drop impose a force in opposite directions, causing the fluid to spin, resulting in a vortex; because the cross section is a near perfect circle, this rotation is balanced, and you get a toroidal vortex. I imagine that, the bigger your drop, the more error you can tolerate in your circle. So by the time you get to the scale of, say, a caldera[1], there's a lot of room for error. (That's a slightly different mechanism, but I think comparable in this way.)
The photos don't look like what I saw. They weren't oriented like that (they were hanging down like the clumps, perpendicular to the planes direction of motion), and they weren't so well formed. They were more lumpy.
But this was a couple years ago and I didn't take a picture, so I can only go off of my recollection, and my strictly intuitive understanding of the fluid dynamics from the thousands of rings I used to blow smoking Black & Mild in my mispent youth. (You can also see rare and interesting rings that way, but I wouldn't recommend it!)
Very cool stuff that I'm pumped to know about and will look out for though. Thanks!
[1] https://66.media.tumblr.com/e0dd679a1c62751f09e702d8c005b9a1...
nimbius(5)
extraordinary claims…
far, far more likely UFOs/UAPs are an elaborate psyop than an advanced civilization that has figured out how to make it here but not figured out how not to crash.
far, far more likely UFOs/UAPs are an elaborate psyop than an advanced civilization that has figured out how to make it here but not figured out how not to crash.
Sublight speed Von Neuman probes (self replicating) are the kind of tech we are likely going to be able to produce ourselves sometime in the future.
Which is tech that would allow complete saturation/exploration of the entire galaxy on the order of millions of years. As essentially by the time one probe is able to reach one side of the galaxy from the host system the entire galaxy will have already been filled with probe copies.
It wouldn't be particularly difficult for a more advanced civ with potentially millions or billions of years evolutionary lead time on ourselves to have explored the galaxy and by extension have probes in our solar system.
These claims in the hearing are definitely extraordinary, but the tech required to "make it here" doesn't particularly need to be.
Which is tech that would allow complete saturation/exploration of the entire galaxy on the order of millions of years. As essentially by the time one probe is able to reach one side of the galaxy from the host system the entire galaxy will have already been filled with probe copies.
It wouldn't be particularly difficult for a more advanced civ with potentially millions or billions of years evolutionary lead time on ourselves to have explored the galaxy and by extension have probes in our solar system.
These claims in the hearing are definitely extraordinary, but the tech required to "make it here" doesn't particularly need to be.
I’ll add that a sophisticated enough versions of such probes could also “3d” print new biological entities for example.
As an analogy using our own known technology and scientific understanding. We probably could already construct a probe that eventually could reach the Centauri star system near us. And we could have this probe designed in a way that it contains a 3d printer and once it locates the raw material needed for this 3d printer, then it can print a new copy of itself.
Now extend this slightly in that the probe has a 2 way link, perhaps very slow, light years obviously in distance, but can eventually send and receive information from earth.
Then based on the sensor data collected in Centauri, we can certainly imagine that we can send updated schematics for new designs to print.
Yes this all took 100s of years. But a future technological civilization modeled on us, is likely headed that way.
Lastly, perhaps biology once better mastered, can be manipulated a bit like 3d printing. This could potentially explain reports of humanoid entities. The advanced probes are printing what they observe.
Obviously all this is hypothetical speculation but the point is even biological evidence doesn’t necessarily mean actual original beings that traveled many light years here.
As an analogy using our own known technology and scientific understanding. We probably could already construct a probe that eventually could reach the Centauri star system near us. And we could have this probe designed in a way that it contains a 3d printer and once it locates the raw material needed for this 3d printer, then it can print a new copy of itself.
Now extend this slightly in that the probe has a 2 way link, perhaps very slow, light years obviously in distance, but can eventually send and receive information from earth.
Then based on the sensor data collected in Centauri, we can certainly imagine that we can send updated schematics for new designs to print.
Yes this all took 100s of years. But a future technological civilization modeled on us, is likely headed that way.
Lastly, perhaps biology once better mastered, can be manipulated a bit like 3d printing. This could potentially explain reports of humanoid entities. The advanced probes are printing what they observe.
Obviously all this is hypothetical speculation but the point is even biological evidence doesn’t necessarily mean actual original beings that traveled many light years here.
There may not be much of a difference left then between machines and biologicals. Generations would alternate like a jellyfish does between polyp and medusa. No need for generation ships.
I agree, likely no need for generation ships.
Another point I like to make is that the craft we observe, assuming we do, definitely do not need to be the actual interstellar craft, why would they be. We wouldn’t do it like that, why would they. Instead they could be local probes dispatched from another craft, or even local probes manufactured by the master probe.
Lastly, let’s assume we see mach 50 speeds on the craft, that’s still not a significant fraction of the speed of light.
Another point I like to make is that the craft we observe, assuming we do, definitely do not need to be the actual interstellar craft, why would they be. We wouldn’t do it like that, why would they. Instead they could be local probes dispatched from another craft, or even local probes manufactured by the master probe.
Lastly, let’s assume we see mach 50 speeds on the craft, that’s still not a significant fraction of the speed of light.
Self replicating probes, basically spaceship multifactories, is not something trivial to achieve.
It becomes easier when science can be millions of years ahead.
Not only that, for some reason UFOs are supposed to have actual alien pilots. Maybe they're here to steal our drone tech.
There are so many serious people saying basically the same things for years - at a great cost for their careers, that it would be really surprising that there’s really nothing.
If it all exists, I am pretty sure all this technology has considerable value for the military and as such, there will be immense resistance to acknowledge anything.
If it all exists, I am pretty sure all this technology has considerable value for the military and as such, there will be immense resistance to acknowledge anything.
> that there’s really nothing.
There's a lot of "somethings" that could be the case without it having anything to do with actual aliens existing. The two broad categories would be that it's an intentional cover story for something meant to be secret, either legitimate research or some kind of corruption -- or it's sincere crackpot research in the government, of which there are plenty of examples, from paranormal research to ordinary pseudoscience.
There's a lot of "somethings" that could be the case without it having anything to do with actual aliens existing. The two broad categories would be that it's an intentional cover story for something meant to be secret, either legitimate research or some kind of corruption -- or it's sincere crackpot research in the government, of which there are plenty of examples, from paranormal research to ordinary pseudoscience.
I was at the national airforce museum in Ohio. They have a flying saucer on display there. Not because it's alien, but because they were trying to get flying saucer technology working. Every era of UFO theories had tech with similar silhouettes declassified a few decades later.
I truly believe that all UFO sightings have been terrestrial technology tests or atmospheric events. If a flying saucer had been found that was capable of interstellar travel we wouldn't have dinky two person ones sitting in a museum. They'd be the basis of mining tech that would empower the finding nation.
I truly believe that all UFO sightings have been terrestrial technology tests or atmospheric events. If a flying saucer had been found that was capable of interstellar travel we wouldn't have dinky two person ones sitting in a museum. They'd be the basis of mining tech that would empower the finding nation.
> I truly believe that all UFO sightings have been terrestrial technology tests or atmospheric events.
This is basically the only available truth (if you add in people hallucinating/misremembering/etc). The problem is you can never “prove” this to someone who wants to believe otherwise.
Let’s say the government legitimately did lay bare all of its UFO related classified documents and it explained some portion of events with known military secrets. There would still be a huge contingent claiming they were holding back something. And you could never prove them wrong. There is always a deeper secret to a conspiracy theorist.
Ask yourself: why and how does only an extremely limited number of people in the US government consistently have access to what feels like a steady stream of alien crafts going back to the 1930s? Why has no one else recovered these? Why doesn’t congress know? Why didn’t Trump know (picking on him because we all know he’s not great with keeping secrets)? Why would aliens go out of their way to stay hidden? Why would they travel hundreds of light years (or more) to earth, only to immediately, and consistently, crash at a speed that leaves largely recoverable parts? I recommend researching what the aftermath of plane intercepting the ground at a comparably paltry 500mph looks like for reference.
Compare this to the alternative explanations, all of which are completely plausible. Nothing about it being aliens makes any goddamn sense. The only thing that makes sense is it’s bipartisan, because no politician in their right mind would be against this, if only because that would make you look suspicious/untrustworthy.
This is basically the only available truth (if you add in people hallucinating/misremembering/etc). The problem is you can never “prove” this to someone who wants to believe otherwise.
Let’s say the government legitimately did lay bare all of its UFO related classified documents and it explained some portion of events with known military secrets. There would still be a huge contingent claiming they were holding back something. And you could never prove them wrong. There is always a deeper secret to a conspiracy theorist.
Ask yourself: why and how does only an extremely limited number of people in the US government consistently have access to what feels like a steady stream of alien crafts going back to the 1930s? Why has no one else recovered these? Why doesn’t congress know? Why didn’t Trump know (picking on him because we all know he’s not great with keeping secrets)? Why would aliens go out of their way to stay hidden? Why would they travel hundreds of light years (or more) to earth, only to immediately, and consistently, crash at a speed that leaves largely recoverable parts? I recommend researching what the aftermath of plane intercepting the ground at a comparably paltry 500mph looks like for reference.
Compare this to the alternative explanations, all of which are completely plausible. Nothing about it being aliens makes any goddamn sense. The only thing that makes sense is it’s bipartisan, because no politician in their right mind would be against this, if only because that would make you look suspicious/untrustworthy.
Honestly I don't understand how beings capable of interstellar travel get all they way to earth and crash their spaceships, and we can just tow their technology like it's nothing special.
And surprisingly, they always crash their spaceships in countries with huge armies and spying apparatuses. When one crashes in Mexico you will get to buy UFO parts/alien DNA on MercadoLibre.com.
You just nailed the number one reason I'm always skeptical of these claims.
With our current level of technology we have not lost a major airframe in the US since 2001. Yet these beings advanced enough to fly across interstellar space get to earth and suddenly can't keep their ships in the air?
With our current level of technology we have not lost a major airframe in the US since 2001. Yet these beings advanced enough to fly across interstellar space get to earth and suddenly can't keep their ships in the air?
I’ll just point out you are making an assumption that the craft which crashed are what traveled interstellar, however that clearly isn’t necessarily true. Isn’t it more likely those are local probes and therefore might have lower specs and high tolerance for loss for example.
I also encourage those who are very skeptical to think about how we as human would likely try to explore other star systems, in fact we already have started such projects. Our first step is to send a craft that with subliminal speed takes 100s of years, but even us we think about sending a craft with smaller probes inside it.
My point is those probes inside the transport craft, we would likely have a pretty high loss tolerance, so is it really that surprising they might crash sometimes?
I also encourage those who are very skeptical to think about how we as human would likely try to explore other star systems, in fact we already have started such projects. Our first step is to send a craft that with subliminal speed takes 100s of years, but even us we think about sending a craft with smaller probes inside it.
My point is those probes inside the transport craft, we would likely have a pretty high loss tolerance, so is it really that surprising they might crash sometimes?
Yet, when we send our spacecraft from one planet to another, we lose a surprisingly high percentage of them (~7% since 2000, not counting the ones we purposefully crashed).
Look, I'm beyond skeptical of the claims, but it's not because the spacecraft shouldn't crash. The most likely time to lose an airframe is on takeoff or landing, not in between, so why wouldn't the aliens have problems once they reach their destination?
Look, I'm beyond skeptical of the claims, but it's not because the spacecraft shouldn't crash. The most likely time to lose an airframe is on takeoff or landing, not in between, so why wouldn't the aliens have problems once they reach their destination?
[deleted]
I'm a hardcore UFO skeptic but to your question, maybe it's like, trivial to travel through empty space for a billion years, and much more complex to travel in high gravity navigating all kinds of spiky terrain?
> There are so many serious people saying basically the same things for years - at a great cost for their careers
Because they've consistently failed at providing proof, every single one of them. I guess aliens have galactic-level OpSec, defeating every whistleblower so far.
Because they've consistently failed at providing proof, every single one of them. I guess aliens have galactic-level OpSec, defeating every whistleblower so far.
It's a lot easier to see something and say you saw it, than to sneak physical evidence out of tightly-guarded facilities. Much less to reveal the crashed ufo they stole from the usgov and hid in their garage.
Drag them into the town square!!!
The town square remains empty!
The town square remains empty!
Not only do they bend light paths to be invisible (or blurry!) to cameras, but they bend information waves so UAP info is never clearly processed by receivers. Anything is possible in Grusch high dimensions.
Another day, another distraction.
This is the same "club" that consistently failed so badly that an "outsider" (with a then Twitter problem) was a viable alternative.
Yes, I'm curious about the UFO "problem", but it doesn't crack the Top 100, or even Top 1000 of things Congress should be focused on.
This is the same "club" that consistently failed so badly that an "outsider" (with a then Twitter problem) was a viable alternative.
Yes, I'm curious about the UFO "problem", but it doesn't crack the Top 100, or even Top 1000 of things Congress should be focused on.
Until we hear someone with real power in political leadership threaten to cut funding to dark programs if the truth isn't revealed in full, I personally don't think any of this is worth paying attention to.
It's increasingly clear that "disclosure" is either yet another sensationalist ruse to keep the public distracted from substantive issues that could interrupt the flow of power and money, so deeply disruptive to the global order or cultural id that the military-industrial complex won't allow it to be disclosed, actually do have supra-governmental one-world government roots that put it outside of the reach of any political inquiry beyond funding, or hide critical advanced weapons platforms and would disrupt seemingly colossal efforts of cloak and dagger efforts and potentially destroy critical advantage.
I for one do hope we have communication lasers, anti-gravity ships, and that Jesus himself is piloting a mothership back to save the planet and raise the frequency because... goddamn it... space lasers.
But until the main funding comes under threat, I don't think anything with meaningful utility will be released. I have enjoyed the hell out of the crazy shit popping up on Youtube however. Good Lord, that navy seal podcast about the ship in the jungle that came out last week was a great story.
It's increasingly clear that "disclosure" is either yet another sensationalist ruse to keep the public distracted from substantive issues that could interrupt the flow of power and money, so deeply disruptive to the global order or cultural id that the military-industrial complex won't allow it to be disclosed, actually do have supra-governmental one-world government roots that put it outside of the reach of any political inquiry beyond funding, or hide critical advanced weapons platforms and would disrupt seemingly colossal efforts of cloak and dagger efforts and potentially destroy critical advantage.
I for one do hope we have communication lasers, anti-gravity ships, and that Jesus himself is piloting a mothership back to save the planet and raise the frequency because... goddamn it... space lasers.
But until the main funding comes under threat, I don't think anything with meaningful utility will be released. I have enjoyed the hell out of the crazy shit popping up on Youtube however. Good Lord, that navy seal podcast about the ship in the jungle that came out last week was a great story.
[deleted]
I feel like everyone has forgotten about the ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
[deleted]
I found it interesting that Matt Gaetz also presented his own testimony in his questioning. That's a voice with a lot of weight behind it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFk1Fv11xKw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFk1Fv11xKw
This guy? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/us/politics/matt-gaetz-se...
That lends a lot of weight to the "not credible" side of the argument.
That lends a lot of weight to the "not credible" side of the argument.
haha oh snap! Ah well not being American I don't really follow the US news cycle. That isn't a good look for sure though.
It can’t be they believe aliens are flying around acting like a laser pointer to a cat. Do they think adversaries have extraordinary technologies?
I can’t figure it out.