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nilaykumar

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nilaykumar
·3 years ago·discuss
> The profit motive is what creates abundance. Abundance for whom? Surplus is allocated by the few at the top (board of directors, c-suite, etc.). Why should they choose to give it to the workers? Walmart and McDonalds certainly understand this -- pay your employees low enough that they qualify for food stamps, and you'll be able to make the taxpayers foot the bill ("government largesse").

There is obviously nothing wrong with charity per se; GP is simply pointing out the obvious inefficiency in using charity to improve the lives of the poor (for example). Why not just pay them more to begin with (say through a democratic organization of the workplace in which no worker would ever choose to pay themselves below-subsistence wages)? Instead, we let money accumulate at the top, and then charity sometimes trickles a tiny bit of it back down.

> Contrast this voluntary charity with state mandated coercion. Violence is implicit. By state-mandated coercion do you mean taxes to fund welfare programs? Violence is already implicit in the creation and perpetuation of the working poor. Welfare is a necessary tool to make sure that the poor are not so starved that they might rise up against the ruling class, "having nothing to lose but their chains". Again the inefficiency here is clear -- welfare would be unnecessary if our basic needs were met. Welfare would be unnecessary if workers had democratic control of their own workplaces. Instead, we have a "voluntary" market in which the worker is coerced to participate at risk of starvation and rewarded by wages that have not kept up with increases in productivity for 40 years. The market thus violently creates the _need_ for charity.
nilaykumar
·3 years ago·discuss
> the desire to find the best way forward has often been used throughout history to justify genocide and lots of other horrible actions

Does that mean we should never again root for radical change? Because Stalin effectively murdered millions of people? If that's what you're implying, then I would have to disagree completely.

The activism of socialists and communists that you're labelling as "utopian" involves working on community problems, fighting for local progressive legislation, practicing mutual aid, showing up in solidarity with unions, and so on. And that's how it's been for a very long time. Where is the utopianism in that? And how on earth do you look to that and see a specter of genocide?
nilaykumar
·3 years ago·discuss
My need for homeostasis is independent of the economic system in which I live, certainly. But that does not refute GP's point that it's difficult "to create legal organizations that help people without the assumption of a profit motive" in our society.

For example: if my basic necessities were covered by something like a UBI, I could spend my time teaching math/art/code/whatever. If I were a medieval peasant, to take another example, I'd be subsisting on my own farm and after the harvest (and after paying the lord a hefty amount of it) I might have some time to help neighboring villagers repair their tools. That is to say: the need for survival does not necessarily imply the need to have a society organized around profit-seeking.

That we _do_ live in such a society today is a matter of history, not logic. The structuring of human society around profit-seeking (or capitalism more generally) is a relatively recent historical phase (what, about 600 years, maybe?) -- it was not inevitable and there's no logical reason to assume that it will go on forever.
nilaykumar
·3 years ago·discuss
Minor pedantic point: there is sometimes a distinction made between profit and surplus, where the former is a surplus that is allocated wholly at the whims of the employer/capitalist. In this sense of the word, cooperatives are not necessarily profit-seeking, as the decision of what to do with the surplus is democratically (rather than dictatorially) controlled.
nilaykumar
·4 years ago·discuss
A marvelous work of interpassivity [1], I think Zizek might say! Now he can have AI perform his meaning-filled labor for him ;)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev4gwxGkReQ
nilaykumar
·4 years ago·discuss
A cursory look at the table of contents of Volume 1 turns up various topics such as:

- the length and regulation of the working day for factory workers

- the division of labor

- the economic impacts of increasing automation/mechanization

- wages (the factor payments for labor)

These are all topics that I think reasonably fall under the umbrella of economics. Certainly Capital is not a book on positive economics. It is, throughout, quite normative, and expressly interested in the combination of politics and economy.

Reading Capital may not help you understand how modern mainstream economists think, but it will definitely get you thinking about the same kinds of problems that they deal with. For example: how regulations might be used to enforce a 40 hour work week. Of course, capitalism has quite outgrown Marx's mid-19th century conception of it. It's an old book. But I find it difficult to understand how a book critiquing the work of the first economists is not a text about economics.
nilaykumar
·4 years ago·discuss
Note: Capital is available to read for free here: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

The beginning of Capital is quite dense (establishing the basic definitions of a study often is, and Marx's dialectical approach takes some getting used to if, like me, you never could understand Hegel) so I would recommend reading it along with David Harvey's lectures available on Youtube. However, the book does open up from there and becomes very much more concrete: working day lengths in the factory, increasing automation of industry, transition from feudalism by expropriation of land from farmers, ...

It is of course important to understand the works that Marx was critiquing or building on. Smith's Wealth of Nations, for example, is available for free from Standard Ebooks (https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/adam-smith/the-wealth-of-n...). This translation is very readable so I encourage you to take a look.