Asking people to run `pip install` on anything but `poetry` is an anti-pattern to me. Ruby has had bundler for over a decade and this is the pattern that is working for them as well as npm/yarn. Npm comes with node, Cargo comes with Rust so the debate is somewhat reduced.
Since quality of life tools and other soft things are hard to prove, I'll tell my anecdata story point. I sought out any package manager experience in python. I landed on Pipenv which uses pip. It failed to solve the tree. This led me to find poetry and the reason for existing which is exactly my experience. That was 2-3 years ago.
In legacy (don't break anything) mode, there's still no reason to not switch. I export `requirements.txt` with poetry just for pip legacy reasons and it works great. If I just update some scripts, I could avoid it. It's running all the time in CI, it's exercised quite a bit.
What's wrong with just using pip and requirements.txt? There's no dev section. In addition, bumping deps is not the same. I have a blog post explaining semver updates to a python dev:
my strong assertion: Python and Go missed it from the start. That's why it is so confusing. There's no other choice in Rust but Cargo. Rust devs are never confused on how to add a package, semver it. The answer is always Cargo. It's in the tutorial. It's in the book. It's in the culture.
I think I've heard that pip might support the pyproject spec, poetry already does. If you want scripts like npm, you can have that too with "taskipy". You don't have to.
Gobuffalo is close but it's been a while since I've looked at it. What you said is has been my experience too.
Here I go about the batteries included vs micro thing. People pick Flask because it looks approachable but then DIY features in. The same thing happens with Sinatra+Rails. If the python ecosystem grows and other communities come in, maybe they will bring their culture and standards in.
Take poetry for python. It's basically, "hey ... cargo/yarn/mix/bundler all kind of figured out these ergonomics". Poetry's "why" section in the README really resonated with me. Cross pollination of ideas across tribes is _good_.
But then, I'm biased/blub-paradox of course. And it's definitely in line with the productivity/DSLs/rapid vs types/verbosity/slower modes discussion.
Gamedev is full of interesting problems. The industry scares me because of a few friends. Fun to hack on, on the side and I’m jealous of the story and mystery this team got to chew on for a while. I know it’s hard but still jealous of these gems.
Sun was ahead of its time in many ways. I used a Sunblade and never thought of it again until this article and its relation. Interesting.
I've thought a lot about zones and Docker. I remember booting a zone for the first time on Solaris (copies the kernel) and was amazed at how fast it booted. It had a lot of the same things (volumes that are mounted). I used to explain Docker as Solaris zones sometimes but no one knows what Solaris is.
Since quality of life tools and other soft things are hard to prove, I'll tell my anecdata story point. I sought out any package manager experience in python. I landed on Pipenv which uses pip. It failed to solve the tree. This led me to find poetry and the reason for existing which is exactly my experience. That was 2-3 years ago.
https://github.com/python-poetry/poetry#why
Combine this with asdf and it aligns with most other languages.
In legacy (don't break anything) mode, there's still no reason to not switch. I export `requirements.txt` with poetry just for pip legacy reasons and it works great. If I just update some scripts, I could avoid it. It's running all the time in CI, it's exercised quite a bit.
What's wrong with just using pip and requirements.txt? There's no dev section. In addition, bumping deps is not the same. I have a blog post explaining semver updates to a python dev:
https://squarism.com/2021/09/10/sciencing-out-updates/
my strong assertion: Python and Go missed it from the start. That's why it is so confusing. There's no other choice in Rust but Cargo. Rust devs are never confused on how to add a package, semver it. The answer is always Cargo. It's in the tutorial. It's in the book. It's in the culture.
I think I've heard that pip might support the pyproject spec, poetry already does. If you want scripts like npm, you can have that too with "taskipy". You don't have to.