After 8 years and $128M raised, the clock is ticking for men's retailer Bonobos(businessinsider.com.au)
businessinsider.com.au
After 8 years and $128M raised, the clock is ticking for men's retailer Bonobos
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-bonobos-is-maturing-into-a-major-brand-2015-8
69 comments
I wore a Bonobos suit in my wedding and had a great experience with them.
They have "Guide Shops" in many major cities[1] where you can go try on the clothes, talk to the sales associates and browse their collection in person.
After your ~30 min appointment is over, they email you a size reminder for everything you tried on (so you know that your suit top should be a 40R slim and your pants should be 32 straight cut and that you wear a slightly different size in their business shirts as compared to their casual ones or whatever). 20% off the first order as well meant I paid a very reasonable amount for a well-fitting suit that I was confident would fit without excessive tailoring.
The other options I was looking at either had poor-quality fabrics / seams, fit poorly, or were more expensive.
[1] - https://bonobos.com/guideshop
They have "Guide Shops" in many major cities[1] where you can go try on the clothes, talk to the sales associates and browse their collection in person.
After your ~30 min appointment is over, they email you a size reminder for everything you tried on (so you know that your suit top should be a 40R slim and your pants should be 32 straight cut and that you wear a slightly different size in their business shirts as compared to their casual ones or whatever). 20% off the first order as well meant I paid a very reasonable amount for a well-fitting suit that I was confident would fit without excessive tailoring.
The other options I was looking at either had poor-quality fabrics / seams, fit poorly, or were more expensive.
[1] - https://bonobos.com/guideshop
Bonobos is carried in some Nordstrom stores, not sure about AYR. I'm actually thinking of giving their pants a second shot once the Nordstrom by me re-opens and I can try enough pairs on to find ones that fit well - if the store carries them.
Link: http://shop.nordstrom.com/c/bonobos-clothing
Link: http://shop.nordstrom.com/c/bonobos-clothing
Yeah, I recognized the name Bonobos from my favorite shirt, and I had got it at Nordstrom's, gets a lot of compliments. It contrasts with another sweater I got there, which developed holes after four months...
Had no idea Bonobos was trying to do this online-only thing, my first experience with them is in the physical world.
(No, not a shill and don't normally recognize and remember clothing brands on the spot.)
Had no idea Bonobos was trying to do this online-only thing, my first experience with them is in the physical world.
(No, not a shill and don't normally recognize and remember clothing brands on the spot.)
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Exactly. I receive their catalog and I don't understand their angle. Is it cheaper than Banana? No. Is the quality better? I have no idea. Are the styles better? They appear to standard, possibly even more plain and boring ala J Crew. So why am I buying it? When I first heard of them I figured someone was finally making a quality shirt for say $50-$60. Seems like an good angle. But instead it's just another expensive shirt. Why?
Bonobos really struggled to raise their D round... and I really mean struggle. They managed to find "dumb" money from a Mexican fund, as all well known funds had passed on the investment. I'm not saying Bonobos is a bad company, but when you run out of growth, and are desperate for cash, accessing capital is really hard...
Having raised $128m, and finding yourself in an extremely competitive sector with players with superb operations (Inditex, H&M), and well known players gone bust (American Apparel), I believe Bonobos is having real trouble in justifying a startup/tech-like valuation. If they IPO, or anyone buys them, Bonobos’ investors should expected a genuine market valuation based on fundamentals.
Having raised $128m, and finding yourself in an extremely competitive sector with players with superb operations (Inditex, H&M), and well known players gone bust (American Apparel), I believe Bonobos is having real trouble in justifying a startup/tech-like valuation. If they IPO, or anyone buys them, Bonobos’ investors should expected a genuine market valuation based on fundamentals.
Wait till Massimo Dutti expands into the US. Everybody who is one price level above Zara will be destroyed.
Why? Massimo Dutti is in Canada, but it doesn't look like anyone of American brands in that space was "destroyed".
For the amusement value, Massimo Dutti is owned by Inditex, parent company of Zara.
Meanwhile the ultra-highend designer, Brunello Cuccinelli, achieved a very successful multi-billion IPO valuation by focusing on hand made clothing, ethical sourcing, hands on sales, and superior quality.
Sometimes markets aren't just about driving down price and cheap supply chains. Providing a product an order of magnitude better than currently provided by competition, and charging a lot for it, can also lead to success.
I also sense that a great deal of profit will come from matching consumers values of quality and ethics over price for the coming generation of consumers.
Sometimes markets aren't just about driving down price and cheap supply chains. Providing a product an order of magnitude better than currently provided by competition, and charging a lot for it, can also lead to success.
I also sense that a great deal of profit will come from matching consumers values of quality and ethics over price for the coming generation of consumers.
I remember when they launched, their 'special sauce' was supposed to be how they made pants fit men correctly, but the photos made their pants look awkward and ill-fitting.
To wit: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-06-01/features/08052...
Odd how that first impression has stuck with me and prevented me from paying any further attention to the brand.
To wit: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-06-01/features/08052...
Odd how that first impression has stuck with me and prevented me from paying any further attention to the brand.
TBH, I still haven't had great luck with their pants. They just don't fit well, even trying several different configuration options.
On the other hand, their dress shirts are very high quality and fit (me) extremely well. They get me every time there is a sale on their dress shirts (like today).
I think the real difficulty with these business models is that the sizing numbers vary WILDLY across retailers, so there's a lack of consumer confidence when shopping - even with free shipping and returns. A 34x34 pant is not the same at J Crew, Banana or Bonobos. There are several other measures that impact the fit dramatically, of which the average consumer is not aware.
On the other hand, their dress shirts are very high quality and fit (me) extremely well. They get me every time there is a sale on their dress shirts (like today).
I think the real difficulty with these business models is that the sizing numbers vary WILDLY across retailers, so there's a lack of consumer confidence when shopping - even with free shipping and returns. A 34x34 pant is not the same at J Crew, Banana or Bonobos. There are several other measures that impact the fit dramatically, of which the average consumer is not aware.
> I think the real difficulty with these business models is that the sizing numbers vary WILDLY across retailers
You're right, and the crazy thing is that men's[1] sizes should be completely bog-standard: they're supposed to be lengths in inches. There's no reason why I wear anything from a 29" to a 32" long pair of trousers, depending on the manufacturer.
I'm well aware that ready-to-wear will never fit as well as tailored; that's fine. But there's no good reason for lengths to vary so wildly.
[1] Women's clothing is different, because women's proportions have a much higher variance than men's.
You're right, and the crazy thing is that men's[1] sizes should be completely bog-standard: they're supposed to be lengths in inches. There's no reason why I wear anything from a 29" to a 32" long pair of trousers, depending on the manufacturer.
I'm well aware that ready-to-wear will never fit as well as tailored; that's fine. But there's no good reason for lengths to vary so wildly.
[1] Women's clothing is different, because women's proportions have a much higher variance than men's.
> their dress shirts are very high quality and fit (me) extremely well
Their khakis fit me perfectly. I'm wearing them now. They're my preferred pair of pants because they're a tight fit, but I can still wear them while riding my bike.
The pants are cut for squishy office drones. It's for guys carrying an extra 12 pounds who still want a modern tapered cut. The quality is pretty much standard disposable American clothing, that is to say a pair of pants will be visibly disintegrating after about ten washes.
Ah yes, the "American slim fit". Most shirts I try on are too tight on the chest (40" chest, medium should fit normally in most brands), but the waist is... massive (31" waist). Probably for a man expecting to have a child.
Disagree I've found their chinos to be more form fitting and comfortable than Banana Republic and I dont have 12 extra pounds. The quality has also been better than BR, most of the chinos I had from BR barely lasted a year...buttons falling off and fraying at the seams/pockets vs my bonobos which have lasted longer. Plus bonobos have nice patterns on their pockets it really sets them apart.
I disagree. I'm hardly squishy, and their pants fit me better than any khakis or jeans that I've worn in the past few years.
The biggest problem with buying clothes, in my opinion, is that most are low quality.
Pants and shirts should be guaranteed to withstand hundreds of machine washes without shrinking or falling apart.
Textiles are very very cheap. Men's pants styles have changed very little in 100 years. It's unconscionable that they should cost more than $25-$30 a pair.
When you walk into a Bonobos brick and mortar location, there are lots of accessories (ties, belts, etc.) which are higher margin items that are more trend-driven, which is good for the business's bottom line, but I don't know any guys who really want to go "all in" and look like a Bonobos spokesperson.
A man needs well-made, well-fitting staple garments that he can reliably reorder when he needs more (which should be rarely). The fashion and flourishes are fun, as are luxury materials like cashmere and silk, but they are not the core of a man's wardrobe.
Not everyone aspires to have a super expensive watch and fancy tie. Most of us just want well-made pants that won't be ready for donation to the goodwill the following year. I thought this was what Bonobos was building, but it seems to have branched out into what feels like a copy of Ralph Lauren, with the same kind of aspirational "gentleman" aesthetic.
Pants and shirts should be guaranteed to withstand hundreds of machine washes without shrinking or falling apart.
Textiles are very very cheap. Men's pants styles have changed very little in 100 years. It's unconscionable that they should cost more than $25-$30 a pair.
When you walk into a Bonobos brick and mortar location, there are lots of accessories (ties, belts, etc.) which are higher margin items that are more trend-driven, which is good for the business's bottom line, but I don't know any guys who really want to go "all in" and look like a Bonobos spokesperson.
A man needs well-made, well-fitting staple garments that he can reliably reorder when he needs more (which should be rarely). The fashion and flourishes are fun, as are luxury materials like cashmere and silk, but they are not the core of a man's wardrobe.
Not everyone aspires to have a super expensive watch and fancy tie. Most of us just want well-made pants that won't be ready for donation to the goodwill the following year. I thought this was what Bonobos was building, but it seems to have branched out into what feels like a copy of Ralph Lauren, with the same kind of aspirational "gentleman" aesthetic.
"It's unconscionable that they should cost more than $25-$30 a pair."
Exactly. I want all my clothes to be made by small children in sweatshops. I don't want my money to go to businesses that rely on paying normal wages.
Exactly. I want all my clothes to be made by small children in sweatshops. I don't want my money to go to businesses that rely on paying normal wages.
Actually, I want my clothes to be made by robots so that I can get a custom fit that exactly fits ME.
I'm a 6'3" American, not a 5'8" Italian. Therefore, I fit into almost nothing at places like Nieman Marcus, H&M, Zegna, etc.
My choices are solid white or solid blue in broadcloth. My other half just quit trying since every time she finds a gorgeous shirt it simply won't fit.
I would learn tailoring except I can't get the really nice fabrics. I have tried taking pictures of nice shirts and then trying to find the fabric. Everybody looks at me like I'm completely insane (effectively--if I'm not buying 10000 yards, I'm not worth talking to).
So, if Bonobos really wanted to up-end the business, instead of making clothing that makes you look like every other Wall Street douchebag, they should figure out how to construct one-off clothing in any appropriate available fabric in the world cost effectively.
Women would knife each other to guarantee that their dress is genuinely unique.
I'm a 6'3" American, not a 5'8" Italian. Therefore, I fit into almost nothing at places like Nieman Marcus, H&M, Zegna, etc.
My choices are solid white or solid blue in broadcloth. My other half just quit trying since every time she finds a gorgeous shirt it simply won't fit.
I would learn tailoring except I can't get the really nice fabrics. I have tried taking pictures of nice shirts and then trying to find the fabric. Everybody looks at me like I'm completely insane (effectively--if I'm not buying 10000 yards, I'm not worth talking to).
So, if Bonobos really wanted to up-end the business, instead of making clothing that makes you look like every other Wall Street douchebag, they should figure out how to construct one-off clothing in any appropriate available fabric in the world cost effectively.
Women would knife each other to guarantee that their dress is genuinely unique.
To get the perfect fit, can't you just get something off the shelf, and then take them to someone to have them tailored to fit you?
There are some alterations that are expensive/impractical. Mostly the structural ones, like raising the drop of a pair of trousers, changing the overall silhouette, or having a sports coat's shoulders altered.
Most of the higher end cotton mills don't sell to the general public but a few such as Acorn and Thomas Mason have been known to do so. Expect to pay $50-100 per yard for their fabrics. They're generally worth it, though. Also, if you're in a bigger city such as NYC, you may be able to find stores such as Tip Top Fabrics (no affiliation other than satisfied customer) that sell bolt-end remnants at discounted rates from some of the higher end mills. The selection will likely be hit-or-miss, though.
Try Epaulet or Taylor Stitch
You need to go to Holland where you are average-sized.
Or Denmark. Lots of Danish men's brands, including lots of tall sizes, many of them are actually made in Denmark. The current USD/EUR exchange rate makes the prices decent.
And if you can't find high quality mens wear there you not trying enough.
Example: http://www.norseprojects.com/store/mens-aw15/knitwear/aw15-v... . These guys even give you 20% off if you're shipping out the EU. And pro-tip current pick to pay in DKK instead of USD, your credit card will give you a better exchange rate (even with fees).
And if you can't find high quality mens wear there you not trying enough.
Example: http://www.norseprojects.com/store/mens-aw15/knitwear/aw15-v... . These guys even give you 20% off if you're shipping out the EU. And pro-tip current pick to pay in DKK instead of USD, your credit card will give you a better exchange rate (even with fees).
Thanks for the advice I never thought to check out of country.
Sadly, I don't know of any hotbeds of high fashion from the Netherlands.
If you would be so kind as to point me to some, I would happily talk to them. I have gotten suits from Hong Kong before (they were reasonably well-tailored, but the fabrics were still pedestrian), so I'm not averse to international purchases.
If you would be so kind as to point me to some, I would happily talk to them. I have gotten suits from Hong Kong before (they were reasonably well-tailored, but the fabrics were still pedestrian), so I'm not averse to international purchases.
I was going to suggest what the other poster said- take a vacation to northern Europe.
Dutch fashion brands you may know: G-Star Raw, Scotch and Soda
Dutch fashion brands you may know: G-Star Raw, Scotch and Soda
This was said a little obnoxiously, but he has a point. Making pants in China takes about three labor hours[1]. Given that about 50% of the cost of pants is the retail/wholesale markup, that leaves $15 to pay for materials, shipping, and labor. It's hard to squeeze a living wage out of that.
[1] https://books.google.com/books?id=unXGqA4st54C&pg=RA2-PT56&l...
[1] https://books.google.com/books?id=unXGqA4st54C&pg=RA2-PT56&l...
I presume it takes that long because having Chinese work in sweatshop conditions to make pants still beats the price of automating it.
When that workforce eventually goes away and we have machines doing it, will we then have $40 pants? I very much doubt it.
When that workforce eventually goes away and we have machines doing it, will we then have $40 pants? I very much doubt it.
Automating the confection of clothes is VERY challenging from an engineering point of view. We need far better robots to automate that.
I doubt any of the higher price of clothes goes towards them not being made in sweatshops.
Yes, "unconscionable" was quite the interesting word choice there.
“Call me crazy, but I’m hoping we can build something standalone,”
“The e-commerce business is really challenging, and we feel like with this online-offline equation we’ve really unlocked something that can scale,”
“I have a long vision for the company, one that could take decades to unfold, and I didn’t think that my running the company day-to-day was necessarily optimal to getting there.”
So after 8 years unable to scale, they now want to scale by building brick-and-mortar stores where you can try a product that you can only buy online?
Am I missing something here?
“The e-commerce business is really challenging, and we feel like with this online-offline equation we’ve really unlocked something that can scale,”
“I have a long vision for the company, one that could take decades to unfold, and I didn’t think that my running the company day-to-day was necessarily optimal to getting there.”
So after 8 years unable to scale, they now want to scale by building brick-and-mortar stores where you can try a product that you can only buy online?
Am I missing something here?
It is a genius move. Their real estate leases and operations are surprisingly cheap when it comes to brick and mortar because the footprint is so small. And they have completely eliminated the most dangerous and costly aspect of B&M: inventory management. The more stores you have, the more fractured your inventory is. Every location adds incremental safety stock. Safety stock in fashion, where each color/size combo is a unique sku, tends to be at least an order of magnitude greater than the mean forecasted sales...much higher for the high end stores where an out of stock situation is a major hit to your brand image.
Pure e-commerce fashion companies have a huge advantage in inventory management because they aggregate their inventory in a single warehouse instead of spreading it out amongst hundreds of retail stores. But they have struggled because of concerns about fit. People tend to fall into two categories when it comes to buying clothes online: 1) Buy it anyway, try it on, and return everything that doesn't fit, and 2) Don't buy at all. #1 is extremely costly because reverse logistics is extremely costly (personal experience is 3-10x more expensive than equivalent forward logistics). #2 is a no-revenue situation.
Bonobos is doing something risky, sure...but it is novel and, in my opinion, has a lot of merit. They let people find what fits, and then they can buy as little or as much as they want, in any color, fabric, or print combination that they want online...and they have eliminated the reverse logistics and reduced inventory working capital by several orders of magnitude.
And sure, they can't be everyone's target market. Nobody has ever succeeded at that in fashion. But what they do have for a target market is extremely powerful: Professional men. And they happen to go back for more every time because they love the product.
Pure e-commerce fashion companies have a huge advantage in inventory management because they aggregate their inventory in a single warehouse instead of spreading it out amongst hundreds of retail stores. But they have struggled because of concerns about fit. People tend to fall into two categories when it comes to buying clothes online: 1) Buy it anyway, try it on, and return everything that doesn't fit, and 2) Don't buy at all. #1 is extremely costly because reverse logistics is extremely costly (personal experience is 3-10x more expensive than equivalent forward logistics). #2 is a no-revenue situation.
Bonobos is doing something risky, sure...but it is novel and, in my opinion, has a lot of merit. They let people find what fits, and then they can buy as little or as much as they want, in any color, fabric, or print combination that they want online...and they have eliminated the reverse logistics and reduced inventory working capital by several orders of magnitude.
And sure, they can't be everyone's target market. Nobody has ever succeeded at that in fashion. But what they do have for a target market is extremely powerful: Professional men. And they happen to go back for more every time because they love the product.
"But what they do have for a target market is extremely powerful: Fiercely loyal professional men who go back for more every time because they love the product."
Wow, so it's even worse than I thought: not even their target market scales!
Wow, so it's even worse than I thought: not even their target market scales!
I flash edited to clarify...but you are wrong about it not scaling. Gucci, a brand out of range for 99.99% of the world population, has a brand value estimated at $12B. Their total market value is well beyond that. Professional men, by contrast, are an incredibly large market segment, and with margins that aren't much different from the high overhead high end retailers.
Yeah, but Bonobos isn't Gucci. And I wouldn't put them near the same category as other high end brands. The people that buy Bonobos are more likely to be people that, if driving somewhere to try something on, want to bring something home that day. Can't buy direct at Bonobos? J-Crew or Banana Republic are next door. Literally, in many cases.
> The people that buy Bonobos are more likely to be people that, if driving somewhere to try something on, want to bring something home that day. Can't buy direct at Bonobos? J-Crew or Banana Republic are next door. Literally, in many cases.
I think that is extremely debatable. I'm squarely in Bonobos' target market and it is common for me to buy something that I like and have it sit in my closet for a day or two before I wear it the first time. I don't know anybody that treats their new clothes like they do a new computer or phone...where they absolutely have to start using it right away. If I'm ever in a situation where I can't wait a day or two but need an article of clothing right now? H&M it is. No way I would pay Bonobos prices with my back against a wall like that.
And more importantly, the lack of having something in stock to buy at that very moment is what enables them to have a wider array of potential fits, colors, and other options while also being in stock with a high degree of probability of being at your door within a day or two. Those fits and options are part of the loyalty that Bonobos has. Banana Republic might have some pants in stock...but do they have exactly my size, the color I want, the fabric I want, and the fit that I want? Far less likely IMO. I've spent way too much time rifling through stacks of pants trying to find my size only to destroy a cleanly presented stack of pants and discover that they have it but not in the right color. I would much rather invest 30 minutes of my time in a Bonobos retail fitting room, and then never spend another minute in a retail store again.
I think that is extremely debatable. I'm squarely in Bonobos' target market and it is common for me to buy something that I like and have it sit in my closet for a day or two before I wear it the first time. I don't know anybody that treats their new clothes like they do a new computer or phone...where they absolutely have to start using it right away. If I'm ever in a situation where I can't wait a day or two but need an article of clothing right now? H&M it is. No way I would pay Bonobos prices with my back against a wall like that.
And more importantly, the lack of having something in stock to buy at that very moment is what enables them to have a wider array of potential fits, colors, and other options while also being in stock with a high degree of probability of being at your door within a day or two. Those fits and options are part of the loyalty that Bonobos has. Banana Republic might have some pants in stock...but do they have exactly my size, the color I want, the fabric I want, and the fit that I want? Far less likely IMO. I've spent way too much time rifling through stacks of pants trying to find my size only to destroy a cleanly presented stack of pants and discover that they have it but not in the right color. I would much rather invest 30 minutes of my time in a Bonobos retail fitting room, and then never spend another minute in a retail store again.
How does Bonobos get around the fact that you're just getting a similar style, and not tailored pants?
The biggest issue with buying mass produced clothing online, is that two pairs of the identical style have wildly different fits and shrinkage behavior. For example, Levis. I have to try on about 10 pairs of 501s before I find one that fits. After the first wash, all bets are off.
I think Bonobos is going to have the issue. Except, now you have a customer that is angry because they spent an afternoon finding pants that fit, only to have those "same" pants shipped and not fit. Unless Bonobos steps up tailoring on demand (think Black Lapel), I think they are going to have enormous trouble satisfying the customer.
The biggest issue with buying mass produced clothing online, is that two pairs of the identical style have wildly different fits and shrinkage behavior. For example, Levis. I have to try on about 10 pairs of 501s before I find one that fits. After the first wash, all bets are off.
I think Bonobos is going to have the issue. Except, now you have a customer that is angry because they spent an afternoon finding pants that fit, only to have those "same" pants shipped and not fit. Unless Bonobos steps up tailoring on demand (think Black Lapel), I think they are going to have enormous trouble satisfying the customer.
That is a quality control issue, not an issue of tailored vs RTW. Levi's has it especially bad because they have hundreds of manufacturing facilities and they range from in-house to third party, rich countries (more automated) to poor countries (more manual), and have hundreds of potential denim suppliers even within the same cut style.
But most smaller clothing companies don't have those problems (or they have them, but not as bad), and this problem is one that Bonobos in particular has actively tried to eliminate. It is pretty easy to maintain consistent quality when you are small though, and it will be more difficult to do as Bonobos grows.
But most smaller clothing companies don't have those problems (or they have them, but not as bad), and this problem is one that Bonobos in particular has actively tried to eliminate. It is pretty easy to maintain consistent quality when you are small though, and it will be more difficult to do as Bonobos grows.
Again, this just proves that they can't scale. You can't be a mass manufacturer with low-volume quality controls.
They are a product line, not a company.
They are a product line, not a company.
What I said gives you no basis for that assertion. It's like claiming that a company can't scale because it hasn't scaled yet. Scaling amazon has gotten harder as it has gotten bigger, but that didn't stop them from scaling.
I walked into their store in Manhattan (unaware it was this model) because I'd heard of them, and knew from their ads that their pitch is about how great the fit is.
The salesperson was busy with a customer who was confused (and a bit rudely angry) that he couldn't just buy something now. He walked out, and so did I.
To continue this sample of one anecdata: my shopping usually goes: "hey, there's a store that sells pants -> I could use some pants -> let's get this over with"
The salesperson was busy with a customer who was confused (and a bit rudely angry) that he couldn't just buy something now. He walked out, and so did I.
To continue this sample of one anecdata: my shopping usually goes: "hey, there's a store that sells pants -> I could use some pants -> let's get this over with"
And also:
-> I better buy two or three pairs if I like them, because in 4 months they're going to stop selling these and they are a comfy fit.
-> I better buy two or three pairs if I like them, because in 4 months they're going to stop selling these and they are a comfy fit.
"hey, there's a store that sells pants -> I could use some pants -> let's get this over with"
Interesting because mine is "I could use some pants -> where is a store that sells pants? -> let's get this over with"
I wonder how different your or my experiences are compared to the population.
Interesting because mine is "I could use some pants -> where is a store that sells pants? -> let's get this over with"
I wonder how different your or my experiences are compared to the population.
Mine would be the same as yours except that I live in Manhattan and often walk around Midtown / Union Square where there are tons of clothing retailers.
I agree, I think its weird. I went into one of their stores and the employee was working with someone else. Since I can't buy anything, I just walked out.
I did end up buying their clothes on their website and the cost was pretty good after coupons. The clothes themselves are awesome and fit me perfectly.
I also like their website, especially the filter they have, it's very responsive.
I did end up buying their clothes on their website and the cost was pretty good after coupons. The clothes themselves are awesome and fit me perfectly.
I also like their website, especially the filter they have, it's very responsive.
It's a brand I've never understood at a valuation that seems completely insane. Generic designs that are more expensive (relative to the fast fashion bunch) and more difficult to buy (relative to comparable B&M chains).
Serious question: Does anyone know/is anyone a Bonobos enthusiast? I'm legitimately curious about their demographic, and what appeals to them about Bonobos that doesn't about JCrew/Club Monaco/Zara/Uniqlo/etc.
Serious question: Does anyone know/is anyone a Bonobos enthusiast? I'm legitimately curious about their demographic, and what appeals to them about Bonobos that doesn't about JCrew/Club Monaco/Zara/Uniqlo/etc.
H&M/Zara have horrible quality compared to Bonobos/Banana Republic. I've bought clothes that barely lasted after one wash similar to the woman's clothes from Forever 21.
Bonobos has better quality, slightly slimmer and more modern fit than Banana Republic. The quality has also been better as far as chinos goes. Also I like Bonobos' attention to detail, the pockets have nice patterns and better buttons. They also fit better in the right places and seem more movable.
As far as their shirts are concerned I can find more flashy or newer type designs/patterns that are still office friendly. Plus most of the button down shirts dont have that huge blousey look at the bottom when I tuck them in. For my body its hard to find shirts with broad shoulders but a small waist.
Bonobos has better quality, slightly slimmer and more modern fit than Banana Republic. The quality has also been better as far as chinos goes. Also I like Bonobos' attention to detail, the pockets have nice patterns and better buttons. They also fit better in the right places and seem more movable.
As far as their shirts are concerned I can find more flashy or newer type designs/patterns that are still office friendly. Plus most of the button down shirts dont have that huge blousey look at the bottom when I tuck them in. For my body its hard to find shirts with broad shoulders but a small waist.
When Bonobos first came on the scene, it was difficult to find a pair of men's pants with a decent fit at a decent price. I don't consider myself a Bonobos enthusiast, but I can say that putting on a pair of Bonobos pants after years of billowing tent pants was revelatory insofar as a pair of men's pants can be. It is worth noting that I bought these at a heavy clearance discount ($20 to the normal ~$90).
But now, it isn't difficult to find well fitting men's clothes. Since buying that first pair of Bonobos, I've found clothes that fit just as well, for similar quality and much lower prices.
But now, it isn't difficult to find well fitting men's clothes. Since buying that first pair of Bonobos, I've found clothes that fit just as well, for similar quality and much lower prices.
I only wear Bonobos pants. If you have a tall athletic build and do a lot of heavy squats and therefore have a gigantic butt/thighs, they make the one model of pants on earth that fits you off the rack.
Pants from Jcrew/Zara/H&M are definitely more fashionable but they don't come in my length, and if they fit my quads then they billow around my ankles.
Confusingly, Bonobos shirts/sports coats are cut for guys with very slender upper bodies, non-broad shoulders, and do not come in adequately tall sizes, and Jcrew's tall line of shirts fits an athletic build much better.
Pants from Jcrew/Zara/H&M are definitely more fashionable but they don't come in my length, and if they fit my quads then they billow around my ankles.
Confusingly, Bonobos shirts/sports coats are cut for guys with very slender upper bodies, non-broad shoulders, and do not come in adequately tall sizes, and Jcrew's tall line of shirts fits an athletic build much better.
Most of my pants are from Bonobos because they have easy-to-find 35 36 slim-fits which can be hard to find. Their denim is of decent quality, and they used to have a ton of big sales. I wouldn't go as far as to call myself an 'enthusiast' though.
Wanted to be the “Zappos of pants”.
I’m a frequent shopper of Bonobos and Zappos. One glaring flaw is their shipping speeds. I felt in its earlier days, Zappos really paved the way for fast and convenient shipping. Order a pair of shoes, and you get it on your front porch in 1-2 days. I rarely shop at clothing stores now. I like to have clothes and shoes delivered so that I may try them at my leisure in the comfort of my own home and debate whether to keep the purchase for a couple of days.
Bonobos shipment takes approximately 5 business days if you live in Northern CA (which is where I am at.) Returns also take awhile. Approximately 2 weeks from when I initially ship the item, to when I receive the return on my CC. You can’t be the “Zappos of pants”, if your shipping speeds take 5 business days.
Their customer experience is one of the best I’ve ever experienced. They are really polite and really responsive.
Additionally, if you visit one of their brick and mortar shops, and you order through their reps at the store, you will get a sizable discount. Grab that person’s card, and try to make future orders through that person for discounts in the future.
I’m a frequent shopper of Bonobos and Zappos. One glaring flaw is their shipping speeds. I felt in its earlier days, Zappos really paved the way for fast and convenient shipping. Order a pair of shoes, and you get it on your front porch in 1-2 days. I rarely shop at clothing stores now. I like to have clothes and shoes delivered so that I may try them at my leisure in the comfort of my own home and debate whether to keep the purchase for a couple of days.
Bonobos shipment takes approximately 5 business days if you live in Northern CA (which is where I am at.) Returns also take awhile. Approximately 2 weeks from when I initially ship the item, to when I receive the return on my CC. You can’t be the “Zappos of pants”, if your shipping speeds take 5 business days.
Their customer experience is one of the best I’ve ever experienced. They are really polite and really responsive.
Additionally, if you visit one of their brick and mortar shops, and you order through their reps at the store, you will get a sizable discount. Grab that person’s card, and try to make future orders through that person for discounts in the future.
Ha! So many haters and misconceptions, and general cynicism. Something about menswear makes guys go a little nuts these days. And the general assumption that every factory in Asia is a sweatshop is frankly racist / xenophobic. What I love about Bonobos is that as a startup fan and participant, they've been way more candid on most things around their business than they needed to be. Andy's articles on Medium have been fascinating. But, as usual today, most people make snap judgments about one particular thing based on their singular experience without thinking about the broader implications and opportunities. I'd guess those commenters aren't very good at VC investing?
They're struggling because they typically hire young, professionally immature employees that treat any new process as an encroachment on their fiefdom. When I worked there getting anything done across departments required buy in from the executive team that had to force people to do their jobs.
The zappos comparison doesn't really work anymore. They dropped free 2-3 day shipping because they were losing so much money and phone support has gone downhill.
The zappos comparison doesn't really work anymore. They dropped free 2-3 day shipping because they were losing so much money and phone support has gone downhill.
I'm a tall guy with an athletic build. The bonobos "tailored slim" cut shirts are the best off-the-rack fit I've found. I recently tried Trumaker for made-to-measure shirts and was totally underwhelmed. The tailored slim shirts from bonobos were a much slimmer cut than what I got from Trumaker.
I don't love their chinos but I think I just dislike chinos. They are boxy.
I don't love their chinos but I think I just dislike chinos. They are boxy.
Ah, I've had good luck with Trumaker actually. First shirt wasn't slim enough but was able to get it adjusted, and shirts since have been great. Did take some time to get it right though.
My adjustment came back still too baggy. I was pretty disappointed. Really wanted it to be awesome.
Between Uniqlo, J. Crew (which has sales all the time), H&M, and other cheaper-but-pretty-much-the-same stores, I don't know what Bonobos offers.
The regular person will buy from the stores above. The person that spends a ton of money on clothes will buy actual designer clothes made.
The regular person will buy from the stores above. The person that spends a ton of money on clothes will buy actual designer clothes made.
I like their shirts a lot (much better fit than J-Crew and Banana, much higher quality than H&M), but it's still difficult to justify a $100 shirt from Bonobos when I can get a very similar shirt from Uniqlo for $30.
The pants I can understand, though as someone who primarily wears slim/skinny jeans, I'm not their pants demographic. I'd imagine that there is a large market for properly-fitted pants though, as most stuff from Banana Republic and Jcrew are billowing and terrible.
But overall, I find it hard for frequently-worn shirts and pants to last more than a couple years anyway, between wear+tear and style changes. Paying 200% more for a product that is only slightly nicer (but not 'you will own this for years to come' quality, such as a nice boot) and difficult to buy/return is a hard sell. If someone truly has the money to blow, it's better off going to smaller designer ultra-high-quality (or fashionable) brands.
The pants I can understand, though as someone who primarily wears slim/skinny jeans, I'm not their pants demographic. I'd imagine that there is a large market for properly-fitted pants though, as most stuff from Banana Republic and Jcrew are billowing and terrible.
But overall, I find it hard for frequently-worn shirts and pants to last more than a couple years anyway, between wear+tear and style changes. Paying 200% more for a product that is only slightly nicer (but not 'you will own this for years to come' quality, such as a nice boot) and difficult to buy/return is a hard sell. If someone truly has the money to blow, it's better off going to smaller designer ultra-high-quality (or fashionable) brands.
It's the fit. If you have an athletic build they are a godsend.
128M for the same service my local tailor provides me. I'd give money to my local tailor in a heartbeat before this company.
I'm not going to drop $150 on any clothing I buy online sight-unseen unless it's a brand I already know and trust. And yes, I can return it if I don't like it or if it doesn't fit but if I'm spending $500-1000 on clothes at a time (and at Bonobos that's two pants and two shirts plus a blazer) I don't want to go through that hassle, I want everything to be perfect the first time. I imagine that for most men their desired shopping experience is even more geared towards "I want to purchase the most adequate pair of pants the very first time and minimize the time I need to spend shopping."
I do have a few friends who live to shop but the vast majority of my friends, male and female alike, just want to buy things they like and have them work the first time around with a minimum of fuss.
Plus, if I'm going to spend that much money on clothes that I have never purchased before (and I consider $200-400 per outfit to be a significant outlay of money for clothes, which perhaps makes me an outlier) I want an experience to go with it. I want to see what I'm getting before I pay for it, and I would like the option to consult with a salesperson about the clothing. Their men's Americano and French Cuff dress shirts are in the same price range as the least expensive shirts from an awesome independent men's store close to my house (in the DC suburbs) and every time I've been in there to shop with my husband he's treated like a king by the staff, as is every other customer that comes through there regardless of how much they spend. Again, when I shop there I know damn well that whatever I buy is going to be the absolute top quality that it can be because the owner cares about his customers and doesn't sell anything he wouldn't buy or wear himself.