José Epita Mbomo, a Spanish electrician who sabotaged the Nazis(english.elpais.com)
english.elpais.com
José Epita Mbomo, a Spanish electrician who sabotaged the Nazis
https://english.elpais.com/historical_memory/2021-03-01/jose-epita-mbomo-the-spanish-electrician-who-sabotaged-the-nazis.html
44 comments
Nice story. To this day many Spaniards are unaware that Ecuatorial Guinea is a former colony. My memories from High school are that we glanced over it.
The rest of the Spanish-speaking world is unaware, too. I am foreigner who learned Spanish of Spain, and when traveling in Latin America the locals have often made fun of me for using the vosotros form of verbs. "There are umpteen Spanish-speaking countries, and only one says vosotros," they'd say.
"Not true!" I would try to defend myself. "They use vosotros in Western Sahara and Equatorial Guinea, too!" (On my first visit to WS in the early millennium I met many older Saharawis who spoke excellent Spanish as if they had grown up in mainland Spain, though now that demographic must be elderly or already passed away.)
"Not true!" I would try to defend myself. "They use vosotros in Western Sahara and Equatorial Guinea, too!" (On my first visit to WS in the early millennium I met many older Saharawis who spoke excellent Spanish as if they had grown up in mainland Spain, though now that demographic must be elderly or already passed away.)
My guess is that because E. Guinea wasn't given much attention until very late in the colonial Spain, it didn't really leave much footprint in the spanish society.
Anyway, there are some documentaries about it in the Internet (in Spanish), also from La 1. IIRC they had some ecuatorial guineans in the comment sections with interesting insight.
I also follow https://twitter.com/ccemalabo/ so it appears in my feed from time to time, and refreshes my curiosity.
Anyway, there are some documentaries about it in the Internet (in Spanish), also from La 1. IIRC they had some ecuatorial guineans in the comment sections with interesting insight.
I also follow https://twitter.com/ccemalabo/ so it appears in my feed from time to time, and refreshes my curiosity.
They use vosotros in Colombia as well, specifically in Medellín and a couple of other places in the "coffee axis," i.e as far out as Manizales.
Do you have some kind of citation to back that up? The only information I can find says that Colombia uses vos (like several other regions in Latin America) and not vosotros.
Vos, not vosotros
It is still de facto a colony, conveniently ruled by a spanish-supported dictator.
He was originally supported in the coup because his uncle (the then dictator) was exterminating Spaniards (and Guineans as well).
Since then, trade between Spain and EG is nothing to write home about, with Spain only being third to US and China as trading partners, and EQ's exports are a drop in the ocean of the Spanish economy. Investment from either country in the other is residual (<10 million euros). [0]
Also Obiang regularly blames Spain for funding/supporting oppositors, notably during the coup attempt in 2004[1], which is probably true[2]. Most of the time these oppositors also have Spanish citizenship.
So, in what sense is he supported by Spain, and how is it a colony?
[0] https://www.icex.es/icex/es/navegacion-principal/todos-nuest...
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/16/equatorialguin...
[2] https://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/03/12/espana/1205318523....
Since then, trade between Spain and EG is nothing to write home about, with Spain only being third to US and China as trading partners, and EQ's exports are a drop in the ocean of the Spanish economy. Investment from either country in the other is residual (<10 million euros). [0]
Also Obiang regularly blames Spain for funding/supporting oppositors, notably during the coup attempt in 2004[1], which is probably true[2]. Most of the time these oppositors also have Spanish citizenship.
So, in what sense is he supported by Spain, and how is it a colony?
[0] https://www.icex.es/icex/es/navegacion-principal/todos-nuest...
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/16/equatorialguin...
[2] https://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/03/12/espana/1205318523....
Ummm no. In fact the relationship between Spain and Guinea is surprisingly tenous considering the colonial past.
Guinea hardly makes it to the news and it isn't in the "national conscience" at all. The average educated spaniard would have to be reminded of the whole story.
Diplomatic relations are somewhat cordial, probably protecting some remaining economical interests, but a bit at "an arms length", as with other dictatorships.
Opposition politicians routinely seek refuge or meet in Spain without any trouble. If anything they decry the "hands off" stance of Spain, hardly the same as a "de facto colony" situation.
Guinea hardly makes it to the news and it isn't in the "national conscience" at all. The average educated spaniard would have to be reminded of the whole story.
Diplomatic relations are somewhat cordial, probably protecting some remaining economical interests, but a bit at "an arms length", as with other dictatorships.
Opposition politicians routinely seek refuge or meet in Spain without any trouble. If anything they decry the "hands off" stance of Spain, hardly the same as a "de facto colony" situation.
> Opposition politicians routinely seek refuge or meet in Spain without any trouble. If anything they decry the "hands off" stance of Spain, hardly the same as a "de facto colony" situation.
And care to hear what do they have to say? There's hardly any journalists willing to interview them. Mostly Xavier Montanyà that I know of. When asked "what could Spain do more for Guinea?" they invariably answer "to begin with, they should do less, offering less support to the current dictatorship". If you want a somewhat mainstream source that talks about this situation (which is rare), look here: https://elcultural.com/espana-en-guinea-ecuatorial-del-expol...
Basically, the support goes in the form of Spanish politicians of all parties receiving "prizes" from the Guinean dictatorship with the tacit implication of leaving them alone.
And care to hear what do they have to say? There's hardly any journalists willing to interview them. Mostly Xavier Montanyà that I know of. When asked "what could Spain do more for Guinea?" they invariably answer "to begin with, they should do less, offering less support to the current dictatorship". If you want a somewhat mainstream source that talks about this situation (which is rare), look here: https://elcultural.com/espana-en-guinea-ecuatorial-del-expol...
Basically, the support goes in the form of Spanish politicians of all parties receiving "prizes" from the Guinean dictatorship with the tacit implication of leaving them alone.
My late grandmother worked with Atanasio Mdongo as part of his inner circle before his assassination, and later had to work for Macías Nguema. She was Bubi, working for a dictator that was carrying out a Bubi genocide. My mother escaped death a few times and eventually was smuggled out of the country to Spain. From what I know, journalists were indeed interested (in the 80s and 90s) but trauma and fear of repercussions meant few if any were willing to publicly share the kinds of stories they'll share on the dinner table. You also have to understand that most Bubi people in Spain are surrounded by Fang relatives and there's usually, even today, animosity towards each other. The diaspora basically hate each other and there are wounds that never healed.
Our most recent family table-top arguments on this "taboo" topic was triggered by the recent movie "Palm Trees in the Snow". I do think that these stories will eventually be written by people from my generation (born in the diaspora).
Our most recent family table-top arguments on this "taboo" topic was triggered by the recent movie "Palm Trees in the Snow". I do think that these stories will eventually be written by people from my generation (born in the diaspora).
> Do you or anyone in your family keep in touch with E. Guinea in any way?
We have relatives that have returned, and we've kept in touch with some that never left. My mother last visited in the late 80s* but we always talk of returning now that things are less volatile.
We do keep in touch amongst each other in the diaspora however, so everyone shares the news from back home in some sort of network effect, and we get to hear "how things are going" (apparently quite well since there's crude oil!).
Edit: correction.
We have relatives that have returned, and we've kept in touch with some that never left. My mother last visited in the late 80s* but we always talk of returning now that things are less volatile.
We do keep in touch amongst each other in the diaspora however, so everyone shares the news from back home in some sort of network effect, and we get to hear "how things are going" (apparently quite well since there's crude oil!).
Edit: correction.
Wasn't that the oil income wasn't really redistributed, but kept by the elites? I heard there was some real state being built and such, but there wasn't really much improvement for most.
Is still Fernando Poo more developed than the continent?
I'm sorry if this isn't accurate, that's what I've been told from (presumably) other E. Guineans in the internet.
Is still Fernando Poo more developed than the continent?
I'm sorry if this isn't accurate, that's what I've been told from (presumably) other E. Guineans in the internet.
As far as I know, that is correct. However, apart from real estate being built, there also seems to be some heavy investment in infrastructure and they're trying to attract investors. I've also heard that there are plans to grow the tourism sector. The elite has also grown in numbers and there seems to be a growing middle class (mostly Fang diaspora going back) with connections to the regime.
I don't know what the real situation is and what they plan to do with the new wealth, but if I'm to speculate, the elite wants to develop the country and transform the economy so that they can keep a certain standard of living, because the oil reserves were never thought to last that long (however, I've heard of new possible deposits being found, not sure if there's any truth to that).
I don't know what the real situation is and what they plan to do with the new wealth, but if I'm to speculate, the elite wants to develop the country and transform the economy so that they can keep a certain standard of living, because the oil reserves were never thought to last that long (however, I've heard of new possible deposits being found, not sure if there's any truth to that).
I see, thanks. I'm sorry for the amount of questions, but I'm very curious!
Do you see the ruling elite technically qualified for such leap? And if they are not themselves, are they hiring adequate decision makers, engineers and such?
Also, is there an education system in place (or in advanced planning) that allows to grow local technical talent?
Do you see the ruling elite technically qualified for such leap? And if they are not themselves, are they hiring adequate decision makers, engineers and such?
Also, is there an education system in place (or in advanced planning) that allows to grow local technical talent?
I'd say it's complicated. Corruption and nepotism is a fact of life in E. Guinea. It's a society with many layers, all in service of the Nguema "dynasty", if I may describe it as such. The elite tend to send their children and relatives to study abroad, sometimes in prestigious schools, so there are many who are well educated and probably capable of leading and successfully carrying out large scale projects (and they do have some experience working abroad in positions of responsibility), but back home it's a system that doesn't foster healthy competition or reward the effort.
Education is also improving fortunately. The country never had a university until the 90s and now there are plans for a few extra campuses (still one university I believe), and I've seen some "propaganda" videos[4] where they seem to paint an optimistic picture of the future -- if we're to believe that.
Most infrastructure projects are carried out by foreign firms, and China has a very strong presence. For instance, the new planned capital, Ciudad de la Paz, was designed by a Portuguese firm[1] and, and the construction itself is apparently being carried out by a Chinese group[2][3].
One could say that the approach they're taking is very similar to what you'd expect from China: huge government spending, but tight control over the economy. I'm not sure if that model is sustainable but we'll see...
Feel free to get in touch. My twitter username is the same as my username here and my DMs are open!
1. https://www.fat.pt/projecto/nova-capital-da-guine-equatorial... 2. http://csci.cscec.com/en/yyfw/Construction/202006/3109352.ht... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBY6r2Z3yeY 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feyllyLVZ-E
Education is also improving fortunately. The country never had a university until the 90s and now there are plans for a few extra campuses (still one university I believe), and I've seen some "propaganda" videos[4] where they seem to paint an optimistic picture of the future -- if we're to believe that.
Most infrastructure projects are carried out by foreign firms, and China has a very strong presence. For instance, the new planned capital, Ciudad de la Paz, was designed by a Portuguese firm[1] and, and the construction itself is apparently being carried out by a Chinese group[2][3].
One could say that the approach they're taking is very similar to what you'd expect from China: huge government spending, but tight control over the economy. I'm not sure if that model is sustainable but we'll see...
Feel free to get in touch. My twitter username is the same as my username here and my DMs are open!
1. https://www.fat.pt/projecto/nova-capital-da-guine-equatorial... 2. http://csci.cscec.com/en/yyfw/Construction/202006/3109352.ht... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBY6r2Z3yeY 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feyllyLVZ-E
Thank you for the insight, much appreciated. Do you or anyone in your family keep in touch with E. Guinea in any way?
So Spain should mess with its old colonies or not?
Curious username...
A remarkable man. Very interesting.
I know a pilot for the EG Air Force One. Yep, the oil revenues go to the élite. Typical African story as far as natural resources are concerned.
Google234(2)
“I can’t say for sure, but it is likely that he participated in all that,” says his grandson, Yvan Mbomo, who has formed a picture of his grandfather as a communist of such firm convictions that he put the fight for his ideals before his family’s safety and his own.
Come on man, right at the beginning of the article:
> He was an active communist back when communism was almost a religion, but tore up his party membership card when the Soviet Union crushed the Prague Spring in Czechoslovakia.
> He was an active communist back when communism was almost a religion, but tore up his party membership card when the Soviet Union crushed the Prague Spring in Czechoslovakia.
> He was an active communist back when communism was almost a religion
You mean, exactly like fascism? Pictures / visits to concentration camps had the effect on the nazis that the Prague Spring in Czechoslovakia had on communists. Funny how neither the Holodomor nor the Chinese cultural revolution nor the Killing Fields moved the needle much.
He fought for his homeland, and later saw the errors of his ways. I can respect that.
You mean, exactly like fascism? Pictures / visits to concentration camps had the effect on the nazis that the Prague Spring in Czechoslovakia had on communists. Funny how neither the Holodomor nor the Chinese cultural revolution nor the Killing Fields moved the needle much.
He fought for his homeland, and later saw the errors of his ways. I can respect that.
We shouldn't celebrate any particular ideologies but we should celebrate the fact that José Epita had peoples best interest at heart and tried to change it for the better.
Please note that nowhere in the article communism is actually celebrated, not even in the snippet you posted. So not sure why you got that takeaway.
Please note that nowhere in the article communism is actually celebrated, not even in the snippet you posted. So not sure why you got that takeaway.
He didn't had the effort to read the article. If not, he will found this :
> "In 1968, Epita tore up his communist membership card while watching Soviet tanks crush the Prague Spring on TV."
Every body should remember that one thing it's communism and other authoritarian communism regimes. I'm pro-communist, but I'm against any kind of authoritarian government (and so, I see Stalin as a hideous dictator like was Hitler or Franco). And isn't something incompatible, as I believe that some kind of communist democratic government can be possible.
> "In 1968, Epita tore up his communist membership card while watching Soviet tanks crush the Prague Spring on TV."
Every body should remember that one thing it's communism and other authoritarian communism regimes. I'm pro-communist, but I'm against any kind of authoritarian government (and so, I see Stalin as a hideous dictator like was Hitler or Franco). And isn't something incompatible, as I believe that some kind of communist democratic government can be possible.
There are only two ways to coordinate human societies at scale: free markets and physical power.
Any ideology rejecting free markets is just advocating for power.
Any ideology rejecting free markets is just advocating for power.
Naval! Not sure if HN has really gone down the drain, or if this would always have been downvoted.
Hypothesis: nerds are bad at politics because they lack intuition for game theory.
Hypothesis: nerds are bad at politics because they lack intuition for game theory.
> I'm pro-communist, but I'm against any kind of authoritarian government
Communism necessarily implies authoritarian government. What you think you believe in is a false utopianism due to a lack of erudition.
Communism necessarily implies authoritarian government. What you think you believe in is a false utopianism due to a lack of erudition.
> Communism necessarily implies authoritarian government
What? Since when and in what way?
The common definition of Communism is where all participants are sharing the ownership of production and trying to remove things like money and financial class. Many ideas in Communism in fact assumes the absence of any kind of central government.
Then that the states that have tried "Communism" in modern haven't actually aimed for any of the original goals is less important. But let's not change meaning of words willy nilly like you did here.
What? Since when and in what way?
The common definition of Communism is where all participants are sharing the ownership of production and trying to remove things like money and financial class. Many ideas in Communism in fact assumes the absence of any kind of central government.
Then that the states that have tried "Communism" in modern haven't actually aimed for any of the original goals is less important. But let's not change meaning of words willy nilly like you did here.
The OP's claim that communism implies authoritarian government is likely based on the concept of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in Marxism, and this is a quite common view [0]:
"In The Road to Serfdom (1944), the Austrian School economist Friedrich Hayek wrote that the dictatorship of the proletariat likely would destroy personal freedom as completely as does an autocracy. The European Commission of Human Rights found pursuing the dictatorship of the proletariat incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights in Communist Party of Germany v. the Federal Republic of Germany (1957)."
Of course, Marxism is just one version of communism among several.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletaria...
"In The Road to Serfdom (1944), the Austrian School economist Friedrich Hayek wrote that the dictatorship of the proletariat likely would destroy personal freedom as completely as does an autocracy. The European Commission of Human Rights found pursuing the dictatorship of the proletariat incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights in Communist Party of Germany v. the Federal Republic of Germany (1957)."
Of course, Marxism is just one version of communism among several.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletaria...
Seems to me like network effects and a command economy would fall well under the definition of authoritarian.
Even that is frequently (and often wilfully) misinterpreted.
The dictatorship of the proletariat is contrasted to the current dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. It just means that workers are collectively the ruling class in socialist countries, as opposed to owners (of capital) in capitalist countries.
The dictatorship of the proletariat is contrasted to the current dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. It just means that workers are collectively the ruling class in socialist countries, as opposed to owners (of capital) in capitalist countries.