My Steam Game Revenue Stats(donislawdev.com)
donislawdev.com
My Steam Game Revenue Stats
https://donislawdev.com/my-first-indie-steam-game-revenue-first-month-in-early-access-yerba-mate-tycoon/
171 comments
When I wrote my book, they did an early access thing at it was terrible. I was still understanding where to take my book and iterate and I was getting people telling me it sucked. Uh ya, its not finished at all yet, just v1!
Not a fan. I mean I get Betas and access to things say a month or so before launch. But not during active development.
Not a fan. I mean I get Betas and access to things say a month or so before launch. But not during active development.
I mean, a book is a predefined narrative that you experience once sequentially! Much less suited to open iterative development than a game.
There are other kinds of book than fiction.
Why did you agree to try early access with a book? It only really makes sense for games... and sometimes not even then...
I was a first time author and they were a big publisher, should have pushed back on it. Mentally it knocked me off my horse for a bit in making good progress on the book.
Steamdb[1] gives some info on concurrent players, but only estimates for owners. Looks like they estimate number of reviewers between 5-15%.
[1]: https://steamdb.info/app/1404560/graphs/
[1]: https://steamdb.info/app/1404560/graphs/
5-15% is in line with for example anecdotally observed view count vs votes on videos on YouTube.
So based on that I am not surprised that video games on Steam can be expected to have a similar number of reviews relative to number of owners.
Typically I expect a video on YouTube to have about 10% votes and about 1% comments.
Do all reviews on Steam need to include text or can simple thumbs up/down be given without any text? Haven't used Steam in a while so I don't remember.
So based on that I am not surprised that video games on Steam can be expected to have a similar number of reviews relative to number of owners.
Typically I expect a video on YouTube to have about 10% votes and about 1% comments.
Do all reviews on Steam need to include text or can simple thumbs up/down be given without any text? Haven't used Steam in a while so I don't remember.
> Typically I expect a video on YouTube to have about 10% votes and about 1% comments.
this is known as the 90-9-1 rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)
this is known as the 90-9-1 rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)
yes, you have to write a text for the review to count. I just looked into the reviews for this game and there are actually 30 reviews, but apparently not every review counts towards the statline on the main page (not exactly sure which).
You have to write text, but you can hide your review (friends only I think).
Steamdb uses 1.5-5% not 5-15%.
I forget where I read it, but you usually won’t be too far off the mark if you multiply review count by 100. This won’t tell you revenue of course, but it gives you an idea.
My game sold about 20k units on Steam and has 165 reviews, so there’s one anecdotal point of data.
My game sold about 20k units on Steam and has 165 reviews, so there’s one anecdotal point of data.
If it’s a game I’m excited about, I sometimes buy the early access to support the developers pre-release and only play it once it’s done.
I'm afraid of doing this since so many games never leave early access, or even improve significantly after first appearing
These numbers are actually promising. 400 sales in early access for a 'niche' game would open the door for a few publishers out there. And as it stands this game has momentum behind it, NOT an easy thing to accomplish.
And further more, the steam page has quite a few problems that are easily fixed and would drives sales in a positive direction. Add some streamer outreach to the mix and this could do well enough to fund their next game. Just perhaps not well enough to satisfy the developers ambitions. Yet.
I would love to have this momentum on my own (very) niche game. Its is also on early access, interesting premise, zero marketing budget, and so on. Its numbers are nowhere near as promising as Yerba Mate Tycoon. Its a rare thing to click with an audience and YMT has done so.
To the Developer, keep going. Keep that mindset of honouring your customers its rare in games and of value to the gamers. Spend more time on you store page and promoting, and release it. It will be worth it.
And further more, the steam page has quite a few problems that are easily fixed and would drives sales in a positive direction. Add some streamer outreach to the mix and this could do well enough to fund their next game. Just perhaps not well enough to satisfy the developers ambitions. Yet.
I would love to have this momentum on my own (very) niche game. Its is also on early access, interesting premise, zero marketing budget, and so on. Its numbers are nowhere near as promising as Yerba Mate Tycoon. Its a rare thing to click with an audience and YMT has done so.
To the Developer, keep going. Keep that mindset of honouring your customers its rare in games and of value to the gamers. Spend more time on you store page and promoting, and release it. It will be worth it.
Use the opportunity and link us to your game. I don't think anybody will mind.
Thanks, I don't want to seem like I'm shilling with any of my comments. This is Kanso, a relaxing game that invites the player to slowdown and find a moment of Zen:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1454650/Kanso/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1454650/Kanso/
Clever idea, very pretty, nice and cheap. I bought a copy, and I'll check it out later. But good job!
Working on a game myself, but I'm nowhere near ready to put it on Steam yet, even on Early Access.
Working on a game myself, but I'm nowhere near ready to put it on Steam yet, even on Early Access.
Thanks for the encouragement! Its comments like this that help me keep going. Good luck with your game, I'd love to know more when you are ready.
This looks great, will buy once I'm back at my PC :-)
Oh wow, thank you very much. If you have any feedback, I'd very much like to hear it.
Thanks :-}
In this day and age having over 400 actually paying customers is a lot! Even having 400 free users would be a lot. Now the question is - do they play the game ? Any number above 1% is good, so if there are 4 players spending a lot of time - it's a good sign. If possible ask them what they think is good about it, then update the marketing material to showcase what is good about the game.
I agree. And actually shipping a game that anyone will pay for puts you in very rare territory. The world is full of game designer wannabes.
Why are they wannabes? I don't understand why you would insult people who are trying to put out a product but failing.
There's a lot of low-quality Unity games on Steam, largely because they automated the new game system so that all it takes to publish a game is paying $100. There are some legitimate game designers putting in effort, but some 'publishers' have hundreds of these games and are often just copies of each other but with different assets.
For anyone doubting how simple this is, you can buy entirely pre-made games and template games in the Unity Asset Store for anywhere from $25-$500 depending on how polished the asset is.
...and then, something like this [0] happens:
1) create overpromising marketing campaign/kickstarter for a MMO
2) slap together some random assets
3) ???
4) receive VC
5) profit..
[0] https://www.pcgamer.com/dreamworld-infinite-world-mmo-kickst...
1) create overpromising marketing campaign/kickstarter for a MMO
2) slap together some random assets
3) ???
4) receive VC
5) profit..
[0] https://www.pcgamer.com/dreamworld-infinite-world-mmo-kickst...
Isn't this just the game version of (1) start a new fashion "label", (2) buy Facebook ads, (3) drop ship from China when / if you get actual oorders?
I don't think of "wannabe" as a particularly savage insult. I wannabe a beautiful singer, but I am not.
How about dreamers?
How about dreamers?
The fact that you avoided using "wannabe" as a noun to describe yourself in that contrived example says a lot.
It’s when the product is so bad that any objective observer would skip it.
Like, I get that those people believe they’re delivering the next divine gift, but…
Like, I get that those people believe they’re delivering the next divine gift, but…
They are wannabes because it makes the author of the parent comment feels better.
Anyone who isn't objectively the best at something is probably automatically a wannabe. So at the end of the day it's just a wannabe calling everyone else wannabe. Don't waste time on understanding people like that.
Anyone who isn't objectively the best at something is probably automatically a wannabe. So at the end of the day it's just a wannabe calling everyone else wannabe. Don't waste time on understanding people like that.
I don't think that's a reasonable analysis. Wannabes want to achieve notoriety but aren't prepared to, or can't, do what it takes to get there. A subjective analysis clearly shows they're not going to "make it" - and if they did some introspection they would realise it too. That's a wannabe, and the World does seem to be chock-full of wannabes.
Some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous, etc.; they're not wannabes.
Some people want to do a job, get paid; they're not wannabes.
Some want to be famous and rich, and have the chops to go with it; they're not wannabes.
@Karsteki, I don't think it's intended as an insult, it's more "being realistic, most people making games won't succeed because 'everyone' wants to succeed and most don't really have what it takes".
Some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous, etc.; they're not wannabes.
Some people want to do a job, get paid; they're not wannabes.
Some want to be famous and rich, and have the chops to go with it; they're not wannabes.
@Karsteki, I don't think it's intended as an insult, it's more "being realistic, most people making games won't succeed because 'everyone' wants to succeed and most don't really have what it takes".
The moment you said "subjective analysis" already invalidated the rest of your argument and supported what I said -- you are just saying it's okay to use you a set standards that are not universally accepted to judge others. It's probably not your intention to come across that way, but it is exactly this type of thinking that brews toxicity.
The OP of that "wannabe" comment could have finished the sentence without saying anything about wannabes and still get the same point across. So why bother calling everyone else who can't get their games paid wannabes?
Do we have any evidence that these wannabes are not "some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous"? What's wrong with wanting to become famous as a goal in the first place? Who decides who has the chops and who doesn't?
You simply can't unless you are objectively the best at something. The complexity in deciding what is objectively the best makes such efforts futile, and therefore everyone who thinks it's okay to call others wannabes is just conveniently glossing over the fact that they are also wannabes by someone else's standard.
The OP of that "wannabe" comment could have finished the sentence without saying anything about wannabes and still get the same point across. So why bother calling everyone else who can't get their games paid wannabes?
Do we have any evidence that these wannabes are not "some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous"? What's wrong with wanting to become famous as a goal in the first place? Who decides who has the chops and who doesn't?
You simply can't unless you are objectively the best at something. The complexity in deciding what is objectively the best makes such efforts futile, and therefore everyone who thinks it's okay to call others wannabes is just conveniently glossing over the fact that they are also wannabes by someone else's standard.
That's a mentality that broods on the internet and it's so counter-productive, you see it in all kinds of groups. Your car only producing 400hp not 1000hp? Lame. Not deadlifting 300kg? Not good enough. Not making 6 figures? Why even work!
I think it's because what tends to get 'promoted' on the internet is exceptional situations, I think people can get caught up in the thought that exceptionalism is all that's good enough. Spend enough time in real communities though and you realise that the world is full of people having a blast just doing their best, and that there are a million different ways to enjoy and be successful at different hobbies/careers.
I think it's because what tends to get 'promoted' on the internet is exceptional situations, I think people can get caught up in the thought that exceptionalism is all that's good enough. Spend enough time in real communities though and you realise that the world is full of people having a blast just doing their best, and that there are a million different ways to enjoy and be successful at different hobbies/careers.
It's called elitism, and by far one of the most toxic elements of the tech community imho
Elitism is a problem, but so is egalitarianism.
Just because we all tried, doesn't mean we should all be rewarded and congratulated for trying. Results matter.
So, balance somewhere between the two is best.
Just because we all tried, doesn't mean we should all be rewarded and congratulated for trying. Results matter.
So, balance somewhere between the two is best.
[deleted]
Thanks :-}
A lot more than 1% is playing :-}
I appreciate your positive reply. We could all honestly use more of that.
The game is far, far too much of a niche style game for it to even be all that popular, IMHO. I'm not quite sure what the Dev here expected to happen. It's also Early Access and it's fair to say that unless a game has broad appeal (which shop simulators don't) and hype (definitely not in this case), people tend to stay away from Early Access games from unknown developers with insubstantial catalogs. I know I do, been burned enough times.
I'm not saying 'feel bad', here... more along the lines of 'lower your expectations'. Unless you have a big publishing house backing you, marketing money being spent, your first title isn't going to be profitable... and that's before you consider the type of game it is.
I'm not saying 'feel bad', here... more along the lines of 'lower your expectations'. Unless you have a big publishing house backing you, marketing money being spent, your first title isn't going to be profitable... and that's before you consider the type of game it is.
Where do you get the idea that they had high expectations? The whole article is like "I knew this game wouldn't sell, but hey, at least it did better than my first ten games". This person is a grinder and may very possibly achieve moderate success or better if they keep it up. Their trajectory is def normal for successful indie game devs, anyway. You just never hear about the dozen plus games Soderstrom made/released before Hotline Miami or Thorson made/released before Celeste, etc. Because...well, because they failed
This article does serve as yet another good reminder though that platforms are where the money is and that making content is no way to make a living. Make your fuck you money first, THEN make content using the skills you developed along the way. You'll have something to make content about, too, having been out and about in the world to make your nut
This article does serve as yet another good reminder though that platforms are where the money is and that making content is no way to make a living. Make your fuck you money first, THEN make content using the skills you developed along the way. You'll have something to make content about, too, having been out and about in the world to make your nut
> You just never hear about the dozen plus games Soderstrom made/released before Hotline Miami or Thorson made/released before Celeste, etc.
Thorson isn't a good example here, because Celeste was only their 2nd commercial game, and their 1st was Towerfall, which was successful.
Thorson isn't a good example here, because Celeste was only their 2nd commercial game, and their 1st was Towerfall, which was successful.
Not the best example, I agree. But they did make many small games before Towerfall even if they didn't really try too hard to sell them
He could yet get another bump in sales from a 1.0 release, but you're right the stars are just not aligned to make Yerba Mate Tycoon an indie smash. This was not necessarily a story of loss though. Taking a project all the way to release is a feat, and his attitude toward finishing the game, not to mention supporting it after release is commendable. All this seems like it helps position the developer to solicit publishers for future projects, convince others to work with him, and even help sway potential buyers of future projects. Not to mention it's a critical learning experience, feedback like yours is very helpful. All things considered pretty successful for a first game. This dude definitely has the potential to turn a profit in the future.
Tenth game, according to the post
For a 22 year old that’s very impressive if true.
I believe it is his 10th _attempt_ at a game but 1st finished/published game. The author at least has no other games published on steam.
First Steam game, others were mobile + Web Games.
I got even post about my other game stats: https://donislawdev.com/earnings-and-statistics-from-my-8-ga...
All released.
I got even post about my other game stats: https://donislawdev.com/earnings-and-statistics-from-my-8-ga...
All released.
That Fish Eat Fishes is neat. It's simple to play. It's very visually distinctive. Caught me off guard.
It's maybe too trivial for steam but there's certainly potential to make a game out of it. Add a timer. Add some multiplayer challenge. Add a power or two (dash forward). Make some levels to swim through in increasing difficulty and that's a definitive puzzle/platform game.
It's maybe too trivial for steam but there's certainly potential to make a game out of it. Add a timer. Add some multiplayer challenge. Add a power or two (dash forward). Make some levels to swim through in increasing difficulty and that's a definitive puzzle/platform game.
1st published on steam. He published the other ones on google play it seems.
The other games seem to be mobile.
> Before the game launch, I knew that game will be a failure. I was expecting most sales from Latin America (low price), my all previous mobile games were a failure, wishlist number was low + in the first month of early access (outside of Steam) I sold 0 games copies. So, there were no success indicators. I got no problem with it, everything is running according to my plan, If my whole life is a failure, then a “failure” is something normal, it won’t affect me :-}
I'd say their expectations were pretty low, and despite that they've got a wonderfully positive attitude about the whole thing. Maybe don't be so quick to rain on that.
I'd say their expectations were pretty low, and despite that they've got a wonderfully positive attitude about the whole thing. Maybe don't be so quick to rain on that.
This is a massive personal success for any indie-dev, and the fact that he keeps pushing makes me fairly certain he'll eventually make it to a profitability with a title eventually.
My all previous games (mobile + web+ were failure.
From the blog
"Before the game launch, I knew that game will be a failure. I was expecting most sales from Latin America (low price), my all previous mobile games were a failure, wishlist number was low + in the first month of early access (outside of Steam) I sold 0 games copies. So, there were no success indicators. I got no problem with it, everything is running according to my plan, If my whole life is a failure, then a “failure” is something normal, it won’t affect me :-}"
From the blog
"Before the game launch, I knew that game will be a failure. I was expecting most sales from Latin America (low price), my all previous mobile games were a failure, wishlist number was low + in the first month of early access (outside of Steam) I sold 0 games copies. So, there were no success indicators. I got no problem with it, everything is running according to my plan, If my whole life is a failure, then a “failure” is something normal, it won’t affect me :-}"
Annoyingly, the dev time travelled back and incorporated all that into their original article. I think they did it just to make your advice look pointless.
"In terms of cash, it was not worth it, if we count costs (without time) + taxes, then the “earnings” from those $632 will be lower than 0. I had lost the cash, the first month is mostly the “best” month of sales, so my next month’s sales will be worse and worse, maybe a few % of my first month. Someone might be curious why I’m still keeping early access, working on the game, to be honest, I don’t believe in some magic “boom” and millions of players, I’m just fixing bugs, adding new things because… People have paid for the game :-} I could drop it because Yerba Mate Tycoon generated cash loss (working more on it, generate bigger losses). But people paid for it, it got some players, so I will work on it :-} I know that some developers drop in that situations game, it’s a logical step from a business side, but it’s against my work ethic. I never promised huge things, but I have to finish what I started."
You can't really make a super niche game and expect it to sell well. Nobody knows what Yerba Mate is. Nobody is searching for Yerba Mate.
Also, the video is funny, but it really doesn't tell us anything about what you do. It doesn't show us the consequences of any of your decisions.
Anyhow, I wish the developer all the best. I hope sales to pick up and that they enjoyed making the game.
Also, the video is funny, but it really doesn't tell us anything about what you do. It doesn't show us the consequences of any of your decisions.
Anyhow, I wish the developer all the best. I hope sales to pick up and that they enjoyed making the game.
I know what Yerba Mate is, I’m even drinking some now! I even managed to start a Yerba Mate scene at my old work. And considering how many dev stations have gourds among their vinyl toy collection makes me think there were a bunch of Canadian video game developers googling Yerba Mate at some point. I imagine this game can do well with a little bit of niche online community spelunking. We’re out there!
Perhaps the developer is just a but too ahead of the curve. In a few years time the game could huge.
Also, I wonder how many people knew what spelunking was before Spelunky!
Also, I wonder how many people knew what spelunking was before Spelunky!
> Yerba Mate scene
How did such a scene work? Did you have get togethers to talk about your Yerba Mate experiences? Are there Yearba Mate VIPs you worship together? Did you have Yerba Mate merchandise?
How did such a scene work? Did you have get togethers to talk about your Yerba Mate experiences? Are there Yearba Mate VIPs you worship together? Did you have Yerba Mate merchandise?
His scene seems to have attracted a sardonic detractor, so I’m inclined to believe it actually is real.
> Nobody knows what Yerba Mate is.
I think it may depend on your region. Obviously it is very well known in South America (I first became acquainted with it about 25 years ago after being friends with someone from South America who drank tereré, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terer%C3%A9, all the time), but now I see these, https://guayaki.com/our-product-family/, all over Whole Foods in Texas, so somebody must be drinking them here.
I think it may depend on your region. Obviously it is very well known in South America (I first became acquainted with it about 25 years ago after being friends with someone from South America who drank tereré, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terer%C3%A9, all the time), but now I see these, https://guayaki.com/our-product-family/, all over Whole Foods in Texas, so somebody must be drinking them here.
I agree with the poster. If he'd for example renamed it to Tea Tycoon and made it about tea blends then I'd imagine that he'd be doing at least 10x better.
Mate is ridiculously popular in IT and hacker circles in Germany. Drinks (like a sparkling lemonade) based on it have been around since the 1920s.
Isn't this the effect that the web does make work, super-niche things work globally that won't work locally. I've heard of it, Yerba mate, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere offline (UK).
Tea Tycoon, I'd have to presume has been done? Otherwise, it sounds like something people would go for.
Tea Tycoon, I'd have to presume has been done? Otherwise, it sounds like something people would go for.
He mentions knowing about regional popularity of Yerba Mate, I think he was fully content with making a niche game for specific areas.
This type of niche game might actually be the exception where long-term sales are more than the initial sales. I would rather own this game than yet another clone of some overdone theme with similar sales up to this point.
Some reasons:
* If anyone were to search for such a game, this will be the top result by default, so there might be a trickle of sales over time that just doesn't stop.
* This game may trend on some relevant subreddit/twitter clique/forum and get later sales boosts from that.
* If you have a Yerba Mate blog or podcast, this is basically the only game you can even feature if you wanted to talk about something new.
My next step would be to make a spreadsheet of anything Yerba Mate -related that could possibly feature the game and contact them all.
Some reasons:
* If anyone were to search for such a game, this will be the top result by default, so there might be a trickle of sales over time that just doesn't stop.
* This game may trend on some relevant subreddit/twitter clique/forum and get later sales boosts from that.
* If you have a Yerba Mate blog or podcast, this is basically the only game you can even feature if you wanted to talk about something new.
My next step would be to make a spreadsheet of anything Yerba Mate -related that could possibly feature the game and contact them all.
I don’t think the problem is that the game is a niche game, there are ways to break even with niche games and just copying what everyone else is doing is not exactly a receipt for success.
In my opinion these is what OP could have done differently:
- The game lacks (an obvious) unique hook. Just replacing coffee with mate is not enough of a hook for me, and I was raised in a family that drinks Chimarrão.
- $5 is too cheap for a niche game.
I think would help a lot if you check the Jeff Vogel advices on creating and marketing niche games. He has a lot insight on creating games that only a tiny amount of people want
In my opinion these is what OP could have done differently:
- The game lacks (an obvious) unique hook. Just replacing coffee with mate is not enough of a hook for me, and I was raised in a family that drinks Chimarrão.
- $5 is too cheap for a niche game.
I think would help a lot if you check the Jeff Vogel advices on creating and marketing niche games. He has a lot insight on creating games that only a tiny amount of people want
The market is far too crowded to rely entirely on the steam store for your exposure.
I'd like to know what the numbers are like for indie devs with their own twitch channel who constantly stream the development process, establishing a fan base throughout the year(s) of development before releasing on steam.
I'd like to know what the numbers are like for indie devs with their own twitch channel who constantly stream the development process, establishing a fan base throughout the year(s) of development before releasing on steam.
The market has always been too crowded, unless we are talking about the early Atari 2600 days.
Being a game dev is akin to music, acting, whatever arts related.
It will cost blood, sweets and tears, full of ups and downs, and only an handful will manage to keep going at it their whole life.
Just like other arts, it doesn't mean people just give up, rather be aware it isn't just because they like playing on their games console every single day, that they will make it on the industry.
Being a game dev is akin to music, acting, whatever arts related.
It will cost blood, sweets and tears, full of ups and downs, and only an handful will manage to keep going at it their whole life.
Just like other arts, it doesn't mean people just give up, rather be aware it isn't just because they like playing on their games console every single day, that they will make it on the industry.
Getting visibility within Steam itself is still probably the most effective way of increasing sales numbers - generally being featured/recommended within the platform is profoundly more effective than more organic marketing efforts (unless you really go viral on social media, for example).
Discoverability and viewership numbers for game dev streamers on Twitch are really poor. Of course it can have value as a marketing initiative, but you can also grind that for months / years without seeing a significant effect on sales - the return on time investment is probably not great. Whereas getting onto the front page of Steam (as part of some seasonal event, for example) can do more for you in a single day than months/years of streaming or social media.
Discoverability and viewership numbers for game dev streamers on Twitch are really poor. Of course it can have value as a marketing initiative, but you can also grind that for months / years without seeing a significant effect on sales - the return on time investment is probably not great. Whereas getting onto the front page of Steam (as part of some seasonal event, for example) can do more for you in a single day than months/years of streaming or social media.
I wasn't clear enough in my comment; it's to crowded to just toss your game on the Steam store and expect it to magically generate worthwhile sales.
You're entirely correct about being featured/recommended, and there are ways to game the platform at your release to amplify these effects.
But my basic point stands; you can't just toss a game on Steam and expect good results.
Between the low barrier to entry on the store ($100) and engines like unity/gamemaker enabling basically anyone to have something to toss on the store, it's overflowing with shovelware. How many reskinned game engine tutorials alone are out there for sale as games? It's a complete mess.
You're entirely correct about being featured/recommended, and there are ways to game the platform at your release to amplify these effects.
But my basic point stands; you can't just toss a game on Steam and expect good results.
Between the low barrier to entry on the store ($100) and engines like unity/gamemaker enabling basically anyone to have something to toss on the store, it's overflowing with shovelware. How many reskinned game engine tutorials alone are out there for sale as games? It's a complete mess.
I'm actually very curious about this too.
I've been tempted to start streaming the development of my game on Twitch, but it's somewhat unnatural for me to do so (tried it a couple of times so far, been putting off doing it again for like four months now) ...but it also seems like one of the only ways to build an audience for your games ahead of time nowadays.
I've been tempted to start streaming the development of my game on Twitch, but it's somewhat unnatural for me to do so (tried it a couple of times so far, been putting off doing it again for like four months now) ...but it also seems like one of the only ways to build an audience for your games ahead of time nowadays.
An alternative: make a short devlog video. Talk about the things you delivered that week, plus a few seconds worth of new demo/gameplay.
I did one of those last October[1] (probably too long, but it was my first one). I need to get in the habit of doing them more regularly, but I don't make enough progress to do one every week right now. I have been meaning to do another for the past four months and been putting it off though.
[1]: https://youtu.be/0IAx9fsBuus
[1]: https://youtu.be/0IAx9fsBuus
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but I think the main reason why this title failed is the title. Most people probably never heard of "yerba mate", so to them, the title sounds like some kind of weird mating simulator.
You can verify this by comparing the sales by country to the number of searches for the term "yerba mate" by country: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=yerba%20mate The distributions are very similar.
You can verify this by comparing the sales by country to the number of searches for the term "yerba mate" by country: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=yerba%20mate The distributions are very similar.
Niche genre :-}
I know that the game will fail (before release), it's not problem for me :-}
Incredible progress he's making. Ten "failures" that he's learned tons from. He's going to be hugely successful if he keeps this up!
Thanks :-}
Sarcasm?
He's 22, has a great attitude and work ethic, and has shown remarkable resourcefulness in releasing this game as a commercial offering (presumably running the operation by himself).
Doesn't sound like sarcasm to me. This kid is going places.
Doesn't sound like sarcasm to me. This kid is going places.
Can't speak for parent commenter, but there is a nugget of supreme wisdom in the remark nonetheless. Gamedev is notoriously punishing and mentally grueling. Pushing through these roadblock moments CAN lead to huge runaway successes if the market timing is right.
I'm in a field in no way orthogonal to gaming, but I can attest myself that pushing though the moments I -wanted- to quit the most, were the moments that yielded the most amount of advantage to me. I knew I could go further, work harder, learn to be smarter, because I knew that I had persevered where most others would've called it quits.
Hopefully that's what they mean.
I'm in a field in no way orthogonal to gaming, but I can attest myself that pushing though the moments I -wanted- to quit the most, were the moments that yielded the most amount of advantage to me. I knew I could go further, work harder, learn to be smarter, because I knew that I had persevered where most others would've called it quits.
Hopefully that's what they mean.
I've heard this before, mainly from "hustle culture" folks, but have never witnessed it in real life. I've followed quite a few people, both online and IRL, who have persevered through repeated failure, motivated by "passion" and convinced that success was around the corner.
Almost none of them achieved success. Instead, they ended up burned, jaded and in a few cases even genuinely suicidal.
As someone else mentioned in the thread, the kid is clearly talented. He has released 10 games on five different platforms at age 22 with no assistance whatsoever. That is genuinely exceptional, and he is without doubt in the top 10% of game dev grads.
I'm not arguing that you should quit after one attempt either (even successful designers fail maybe 50% of the time) but it seems irresponsible to suggest 10 failures in a row are a sign of success to come and he just needs to eat shit for the next 5 years.
Far more likely than not, the repeated failures suggest that his talents would be better applied elsewhere.
Almost none of them achieved success. Instead, they ended up burned, jaded and in a few cases even genuinely suicidal.
As someone else mentioned in the thread, the kid is clearly talented. He has released 10 games on five different platforms at age 22 with no assistance whatsoever. That is genuinely exceptional, and he is without doubt in the top 10% of game dev grads.
I'm not arguing that you should quit after one attempt either (even successful designers fail maybe 50% of the time) but it seems irresponsible to suggest 10 failures in a row are a sign of success to come and he just needs to eat shit for the next 5 years.
Far more likely than not, the repeated failures suggest that his talents would be better applied elsewhere.
The biggest problem with "hustle culture" is that they praise each others effort rather than results. Like in this case, 10 failed games is a lot of effort but aren't good results. And if you look at the reviews and where he got traffic on this game they mostly come from other gamedev communities, meaning he sold to other developer hustlers interested in his journey rather than to real users.
At this stage what he needs to do is take a step back, stop seeking praise from other developers and instead focus on making a quality game he thinks users actually would want to play. Releasing games you know will fail doesn't teach you much, especially if it is your tenth one. Or he can pivot to becoming a gamedev influencer selling tutorials or monetizing views, if that is what he wants he is on the right track.
At this stage what he needs to do is take a step back, stop seeking praise from other developers and instead focus on making a quality game he thinks users actually would want to play. Releasing games you know will fail doesn't teach you much, especially if it is your tenth one. Or he can pivot to becoming a gamedev influencer selling tutorials or monetizing views, if that is what he wants he is on the right track.
"meaning he sold to other developer"
No, I was marketing the game on yerba mate groups etc + Argentina gaming and many other places. I don't market my games to game devs because they are not my target :-}
I'm not posting info about my games on dev groups or anything, just from time to time, I'm back with my stats, but those stats are before posting about the game to dev groups, so sales comes from players interested in the game :-}
I understand you're coming from a compassionate place, you don't want to see them burn out, I've burnt out and it sucks.
You can make good money selling your time, but maybe it's not about money for them? By all other measures this game was a great personal success. At this point the dev is competent and successfully releasing games, they just haven't been commercially successful. Now would be a terrible time to give up.
My advice would be to run out of options first, then go work at that "elsewhere". Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
You can make good money selling your time, but maybe it's not about money for them? By all other measures this game was a great personal success. At this point the dev is competent and successfully releasing games, they just haven't been commercially successful. Now would be a terrible time to give up.
My advice would be to run out of options first, then go work at that "elsewhere". Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
I'm not going to refute the rest of your comment, as it's a valid opinion and I'd just be repeating myself, but in regards to this:
>Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
I don't think that's true in and of itself. A lot of people struggle to adapt to the financial uncertainty of flying solo later in life, but that's only because they have a high-cost lifestyle and minimal savings.
I quit my day job last year, a few months before my first daughter was born, to run my online businesses full-time. The fact that my wife and I had saved huge chunks of our pay (100k+ in the bank), in addition to the fact that the businesses were already running at half-steam meant that the transition was stress-free and seamless.
>Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
I don't think that's true in and of itself. A lot of people struggle to adapt to the financial uncertainty of flying solo later in life, but that's only because they have a high-cost lifestyle and minimal savings.
I quit my day job last year, a few months before my first daughter was born, to run my online businesses full-time. The fact that my wife and I had saved huge chunks of our pay (100k+ in the bank), in addition to the fact that the businesses were already running at half-steam meant that the transition was stress-free and seamless.
I think the only sarcasm is around the world "failures". No one creates a super successful creative-work their first time, or usually even their first dozen times. You have to keep at it until you master it, and then also get a bit lucky.
Nobody creates a good product they first time they try, but lots of people don't commercialize those failures and instead iterates until they have something they don't feel is shit so their first commercial release becomes a success. I don't see what you'd learn by putting things you know will fail in front of paying customers just so they can point out the obvious shortcomings, all you do is waste time and energy.
no way, this dev sounds AMAZING. Even if they don't work out what works at this rate they're bound to stumble upon it because they just keep going. It's really impressive.
> Even if they don't work out what works at this rate they're bound to stumble upon it because they just keep going
Is this sarcasm? Because that's generally now how things work.
Is this sarcasm? Because that's generally now how things work.
no, it can be how things work. Diligence with a bit of talent are reasons for success in today's economy.
I believe pricing is one of the most important decisions any business can make, and $5 does not make any sense to me.
You're probably betting that this is a niche game that likely will take you more time than its worth in sales: in that case, you need to increase the price as much as you can without it looking absurd in comparison to triple A titles, so maybe $30 or so.
If not much happens, you accept that there is no way any meaningful number of people will be interested in this game for the price of a steak dinner, so you go for the "penny crowd" instead: sell the game for $1 during a steam sale and get free attention from a >95% discount.
Ideally you can spend this in-between time fixing some bugs and just keeping the game "alive" so it doesn't look like a complete cash grab, but on the other hand you should never feel obligated to put your time into something that isn't, and likely never will, be paying you back.
You're probably betting that this is a niche game that likely will take you more time than its worth in sales: in that case, you need to increase the price as much as you can without it looking absurd in comparison to triple A titles, so maybe $30 or so.
If not much happens, you accept that there is no way any meaningful number of people will be interested in this game for the price of a steak dinner, so you go for the "penny crowd" instead: sell the game for $1 during a steam sale and get free attention from a >95% discount.
Ideally you can spend this in-between time fixing some bugs and just keeping the game "alive" so it doesn't look like a complete cash grab, but on the other hand you should never feel obligated to put your time into something that isn't, and likely never will, be paying you back.
If the game can reach something like the other simple Tycoon games, it can probably sell for around $20.
But definitely not in early access and definitely not until it reaches similar quality/content.
If one tries to make a money grab as you suggest, gamers will obliterate the game with bad reviews. A few bad reviews and the game is doomed forever.
But definitely not in early access and definitely not until it reaches similar quality/content.
If one tries to make a money grab as you suggest, gamers will obliterate the game with bad reviews. A few bad reviews and the game is doomed forever.
Congratulations on commercializing the game. Are you a one person operation? I know how hard can it be to develop, publish, deal with game stores... This is a great deal that you were able to launch and sell. Kudos
22-year-old solo developer from Poland :-}
One-man team.
Congrats! You are doing fantastic. Thousands of debbie downers here, pay absolutely no attention to them. Keep doing what you like, strengthen yourself physically and mentally and if you need to have a second job while you get your first break-away success so be it.
Just a small correction, "Yerba mate" is not the "coffee of south-america" Coffee is the coffee of south america,i.e. by far is a more popular drink. Mate is huge in Argentina/Uruguay and perhaps Paraguay , only regionally in Brazil and very niche everywhere else in the region. Coffee is as popular as it can be everywhere else in the world where the drink is liked.
Just a small correction, "Yerba mate" is not the "coffee of south-america" Coffee is the coffee of south america,i.e. by far is a more popular drink. Mate is huge in Argentina/Uruguay and perhaps Paraguay , only regionally in Brazil and very niche everywhere else in the region. Coffee is as popular as it can be everywhere else in the world where the drink is liked.
Your advice is on point
Yerba matte is also popular in Germany (as in, "Club-Mate") so maybe OP can try some advertising there ;)
Yerba matte is also popular in Germany (as in, "Club-Mate") so maybe OP can try some advertising there ;)
There's an interesting GDC talk about this for folks who are curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WycVOCbeKqQ
GDC talks are great, tons of interesting information.
> Features:
> New update = new bugs
> Poor graphic and sounds
I have to say the first two "features" aren't doing you any favors.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1404560/Yerba_Mate_Tycoon...
> New update = new bugs
> Poor graphic and sounds
I have to say the first two "features" aren't doing you any favors.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1404560/Yerba_Mate_Tycoon...
It's a joke. Not sure if that's immediately obvious to you (it's Hacker News).
Still, as a potential customer, I don't find it very encouraging. You don't see jokes like these for products that don't have bugs or do have decent graphics. Not a very good idea to draw attention to your shortcomings, even if they're expected.
+1
The joke is misplaced. It has nothing to do in the official description of the game, among the first lines read by customers.
Personally I thought this was some sort of typo or weird expression, because the developer doesn't write English well.
The joke is misplaced. It has nothing to do in the official description of the game, among the first lines read by customers.
Personally I thought this was some sort of typo or weird expression, because the developer doesn't write English well.
Honestly, those make me want to buy it. Refreshing honest. I don't think the market here is people that'll be put off by that.
I'm honest person :-}
Irony/Joke is a strong weapon in marketing.
Why do you want to make an iOS/Android version when the game isn't very popular right now? You mention the competition will be a lot higher so why do you think it will be worth it?
Just interested in it, I can gain this way experiences in releasing paid game on Android/IOS.
From other side t's a lot harder (crowd market), for other there are not many paid tycoons, real tycoons games + a lot of players asked about mobile version.
Coincidentally, just three months ago I began drinking yerba mate[0] which is the tea or infusion in this game Yerba Mate Tycoon. I found it better than coffee in the afternoon, since it provides a slower onset and more sustained energizing effect with essentially no crash. I believe it’s due to it containing other compounds such as L-theanine apart from caffeine. Popular brands are Taragüi[1] and Canarias, and can be prepared in a standard French press almost like tea. Some even drink it in teabags[2].
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(drink)
[1] https://pampadirect.com/taragui-yerba-mate-classic-flavor-co...
[2] https://pampadirect.com/taragui-mate-cocido-ready-to-brew-ye...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(drink)
[1] https://pampadirect.com/taragui-yerba-mate-classic-flavor-co...
[2] https://pampadirect.com/taragui-mate-cocido-ready-to-brew-ye...
Don’t downplay the value to you in fixing bugs, customer support etc. you’ll be better equipped when you release a title that is successful.
It's also easy to burn bridges by canceling early access games. The vast majority of people should stay away from early access games by default because of the risk that the game remains unfinished.
I've got a few "early access" games where the developer lost interest or disappeared. Most infamously Starbase DF-9, but I've got a handful of other games in my library.
Now, I'll wishlist them rather than impulse buy them and then reconsider it when it comes out of early access.
Now, I'll wishlist them rather than impulse buy them and then reconsider it when it comes out of early access.
Perhaps there is a better name for what these projects are: "experimental" or "exploratory" access. Something that doesn't so strongly imply their will be a later or finished state.
I got a respect to players cash :-}
I know
I threw $5 your way because I wanted to support you. That said, some feedback:
1. The price is too high. I'm sorry, I know this sounds cheap at $5. But you're competing with the entire world of iOS games. For free, I can get endless kinds of games like this, but with in game purchases. Some of those, like Cardinal Quest 2, are actually amazing and the ingame purchases don't get in the way at all.
I think if you priced it at $2 you might get more revenue in the long run.
2. I don't know what the hell a Yerba Mate is. It does say in the description that it's some kind of coffee, but I honestly had to force myself to buy this. I'd rather buy a coffee than a game about coffee.
I feel guilty saying these things, because I don't know if my feelings here are representative or not. Maybe a lot of people feel that $5 is the right price point and that a game about coffee management is compelling. Either way, I want to support gamedevs, so I might try playing this just for kicks.
1. The price is too high. I'm sorry, I know this sounds cheap at $5. But you're competing with the entire world of iOS games. For free, I can get endless kinds of games like this, but with in game purchases. Some of those, like Cardinal Quest 2, are actually amazing and the ingame purchases don't get in the way at all.
I think if you priced it at $2 you might get more revenue in the long run.
2. I don't know what the hell a Yerba Mate is. It does say in the description that it's some kind of coffee, but I honestly had to force myself to buy this. I'd rather buy a coffee than a game about coffee.
I feel guilty saying these things, because I don't know if my feelings here are representative or not. Maybe a lot of people feel that $5 is the right price point and that a game about coffee management is compelling. Either way, I want to support gamedevs, so I might try playing this just for kicks.
> But you're competing with the entire world of iOS games.
I am not convinced these are overlapping markets. The Venn diagram probably looks pretty close to two independent circles. I play games on Steam and also own an iPhone. I never play anything on my phone, because it's a completely different experience. I think PC games and iOS games are both games in the same way as PC games and hide&seek are both games. That is to say we use the same term for them, but they're not at all the same in regards to what I'm looking for.
It's not just me either. This line of separation exists in my whole social circle as far as I can tell. None of my PC gaming buddies play mobile games and everyone I know that plays mobile games don't play PC games.
I am not convinced these are overlapping markets. The Venn diagram probably looks pretty close to two independent circles. I play games on Steam and also own an iPhone. I never play anything on my phone, because it's a completely different experience. I think PC games and iOS games are both games in the same way as PC games and hide&seek are both games. That is to say we use the same term for them, but they're not at all the same in regards to what I'm looking for.
It's not just me either. This line of separation exists in my whole social circle as far as I can tell. None of my PC gaming buddies play mobile games and everyone I know that plays mobile games don't play PC games.
As someone who has made a fair bit more in donations than OP just from building community tools for a reasonably popular mobile game (still peanuts compared to the time poured in though), I probably have a bit more anecdata to draw from.
In my experience, a not insignificant percentage of avid players of said mobile game active on Discord are also players of PC/console titles. These players may not represent the mobile game market at large, but they are overwhelmingly moderate to big spenders compared to the F2P crowd out there, so I’d say they are a good representation of a slice of the more valuable market segment. So, yes, there’s an overlap, and I imagine “Yerba Mate Tycoon”’s addressable PC market would be even more likely to play a comparable mobile game than the average AAA action/shooter/etc. market.
In my experience, a not insignificant percentage of avid players of said mobile game active on Discord are also players of PC/console titles. These players may not represent the mobile game market at large, but they are overwhelmingly moderate to big spenders compared to the F2P crowd out there, so I’d say they are a good representation of a slice of the more valuable market segment. So, yes, there’s an overlap, and I imagine “Yerba Mate Tycoon”’s addressable PC market would be even more likely to play a comparable mobile game than the average AAA action/shooter/etc. market.
My game is PC game, when I will release on IOS/Android the price will be lower on that markets.
On PC $5 is good price, not too low (like $1 or $2), not too high like $20-$30. Feedback from players mostly say, that the game price should be higher.
On PC $5 is good price, not too low (like $1 or $2), not too high like $20-$30. Feedback from players mostly say, that the game price should be higher.
> At launch, I was selling my game for $3.5 (10% discount), then the price went back to the full price of $4.
Why would you launch with a discount?
Why would you launch with a discount?
Drive day 1 sales, increasing your chance of getting featured as a "hot new release", increasing visibility and trying to ride the recommendation algorithm.
Sadly Steam encourages everyone to do this - if you don't get high enough in the rankings at launch you basically won't make any money, plus everyone on Steam is super accustomed to getting everything at a discount.
Special price for first EA (early access) customers. Steam recommend 10% discount.
It has become customary for early access titles to have an early bird discount
I fell bad for all the awesome indie devs out there now that the market is saturated. I remember the early days of Steam and Android when low quality asset flips would make $10k easily.
New niches appear every year though, like the VR market that's desperate for content.
New niches appear every year though, like the VR market that's desperate for content.
Adapt or Die :-}
That's how it works, I just accept it.
[deleted]
Dumb but honest question: If most sales were expected to be in Latin America, why wasn't the game localized in the Spanish language?
Good question, no budget for it, for localization I would pay $2000-$5000+ or even more. There are tons of words.
If on launch I was selling the game (Argentina) for $0.5, like 30% of that goes to me, so $0.15. Then for the pay of localization I would need to sell 13k-60k copies in Argentina. No chances. 13k copies just for paying for localization or even more copies.
Even big indie games don't pay for localizations, it's not worth it, selling 13-60k copies in xx country is hard.
Right now, the game is translated in 70% to Spanish by community. I know indie games that earned millions of cash, but still, they rely on the community translations.
Even big indie games don't pay for localizations, it's not worth it, selling 13-60k copies in xx country is hard.
Right now, the game is translated in 70% to Spanish by community. I know indie games that earned millions of cash, but still, they rely on the community translations.
I'd like to continue this discussion. Can you please e-mail me at the address in my profile? Thanks!
The game sounds interesting and you seem to have great work ethics. You seem to have a marketing issue however. For a game, marketing is really important.
I'm not extremely knowledgeable in the indie game business but as you seem to have a positive track record, getting a publisher might help you.
I'm not extremely knowledgeable in the indie game business but as you seem to have a positive track record, getting a publisher might help you.
It's an early access game, like many...i never buy a EA game, too many disappointment's.
Yep, agree
one thing, to applaud the author is they have the right attitude. when launching internet products, don't expect them to make money. that liberates you from all sort of problems and stress.
Having a Polish developer create a game around a South American drink really shows the power of cross-cultural spread of the internet. Love it!
You might be able to go to those users who do like it, add features they want in DLCs and such. Could be a fun endeavor for a side-gig over time.
400 sales is quite a lot actually! Going in with low expectations and achieving that number, honestly I would be proud.
The synthesized speech in the video seems pretty realistic - does anyone know which software was used?
It's human speech, not software :-}
My sincere congratulations to you on actually publishing your game and having players.
Thank you a lot :-}
You can buy Yerba Mate Tycoon
>the first month of Steam early access (15.06 to 15.07 June/July)
This is very confusing
This is very confusing
How is it confusing? 15th of June to 15th of July.
People in some countries are accustomed to using a very weird mm/dd date format, probably that's the case here?
yyyy/mm/dd is the true format because its alphabetically sortable. dd/mm/yyyy is another sensible format because the units grow in size. mm/dd/yyyy is the insane one. Idk why the US persists with it tbh.
It has flaws but it’s not “insane” or entirely illogical, it’s very clearly based on the way dates are spoken and written in English, ex. “Today is July 23rd, 2021”.
The reasoning is clear as day. However, even the English themselves do not use this broken format: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country
The US always seem to resist sensible things when it comes to units and formats: it is a mystery to me why they are so attached to imperial units, when the rest of the world sans Liberia and Myanmar are using metric units (and Myanmar planned to leave this shameful club before the recent coup).
The US always seem to resist sensible things when it comes to units and formats: it is a mystery to me why they are so attached to imperial units, when the rest of the world sans Liberia and Myanmar are using metric units (and Myanmar planned to leave this shameful club before the recent coup).
I should have clarified that it is how dates are pronounced in American English. British people will say “it’s the 21st of July, 2021”.
I don’t think the US resisting things is so mysterious. The US is a large country that largely defines its own culture (and exports that culture to the world). The average american isn’t going to switch systems unless they have a VERY good reason to. For the fields where it matters (ex. the sciences) they’ve largely already switched.
I don’t think the US resisting things is so mysterious. The US is a large country that largely defines its own culture (and exports that culture to the world). The average american isn’t going to switch systems unless they have a VERY good reason to. For the fields where it matters (ex. the sciences) they’ve largely already switched.
It's not insane, but it's not very logical. As a non native speaker, I prefer to say "Today is the 23rd of July in 2021" which is perhaps not valid English.
imagine if 202 meant two hundred and twenty. Its insane.
Month day is not weird.
You should have mentioned something actually bad like month day year.
You should have mentioned something actually bad like month day year.
Sorry, it's standard in Europe, that's why I used it:
15th of June to 15th of July.
I meant the part to have the month twice.
It's the euro DD before MM style of date writing.
Oh, if the author just wrote DD.MM it's fine. I just don't understand why he wrote "June/July" afterwards.
It's Day/Month Day/Month
I'm from Poland (Europe)
Sure, but I think it's more that it seems incredibly rare to write month/day without year in strictly numbers. In almost all cases i would write 15 Jun/15 Jul. I can't think of anytime i would intentionally write 15.06/15.07. We all know this is a global world. We all know conventions vary. We should aim to make things intuitive, not make people guess which convention 06.07 is using.
As an aside, me personally, I don't like early access games; I'd rather wait till the game is finished. I'm probably not the only one thinking like that. So I find it difficult to guess how different the sales projectory would be if it didn't have the "early access" status, but with any luck the creator will tell us once he has released V1.0 :)