Sony is buying Bungie, the developer of Destiny and original creator of Halo(theverge.com)
theverge.com
Sony is buying Bungie, the developer of Destiny and original creator of Halo
https://www.theverge.com/22910846/sony-bungie-acquisition-playstation-destiny-halo
46 comments
Almost nothing you've got here is accurate.
- Halo was announced in 1999, originally planned as an RTS for Windows + Mac, not for the launch of Mac gaming (not Mac only, although prior titles were focused on Mac only)
- MS purchased Bungie in 2000
- While Halo was a flagship, it was also released on Windows + Mac in the end (two years late), no IP sniping
- 2007 Bungie splits from MS to a private company (leaving the Halo franchise behind), not 2010
- 2010-2019 Bungie partners with Activision, they coop to make Destiny - there was no acquisition
- 3 years ago (2019) Bungie ends the partnership, keeps Destiny franchise
- There's no way MS considered a company that had a former relationship with an acquisition might be thrown in
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(franchise) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie
- Halo was announced in 1999, originally planned as an RTS for Windows + Mac, not for the launch of Mac gaming (not Mac only, although prior titles were focused on Mac only)
- MS purchased Bungie in 2000
- While Halo was a flagship, it was also released on Windows + Mac in the end (two years late), no IP sniping
- 2007 Bungie splits from MS to a private company (leaving the Halo franchise behind), not 2010
- 2010-2019 Bungie partners with Activision, they coop to make Destiny - there was no acquisition
- 3 years ago (2019) Bungie ends the partnership, keeps Destiny franchise
- There's no way MS considered a company that had a former relationship with an acquisition might be thrown in
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(franchise) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie
> originally planned as an RTS for Windows + Mac, not for the launch of Mac gaming
How I read the OP (at least for this bullet) is in line with what I remember at the time: Halo was originally a Mac exclusive, and us Mac gamers (there were dozens of us, dozens!) generally perceived it as being the beginning of a golden era, where Mac would be taken as seriously as PC for games. I was absolutely heartbroken when it moved to XBox exclusive. I still ended up buying one for Halo anyway, just like everyone else.
EDIT: that being said, I was a kid at the time, and reading up on things, it was announced by Jobs during MacWorld that it was going to be Mac + Windows, so I don't know if my memory of the situation is about rumors before launch, if I misunderstood things because I was 13 at the time, or if I simply have mis-remembered because that was over 20 years ago, hah.
How I read the OP (at least for this bullet) is in line with what I remember at the time: Halo was originally a Mac exclusive, and us Mac gamers (there were dozens of us, dozens!) generally perceived it as being the beginning of a golden era, where Mac would be taken as seriously as PC for games. I was absolutely heartbroken when it moved to XBox exclusive. I still ended up buying one for Halo anyway, just like everyone else.
EDIT: that being said, I was a kid at the time, and reading up on things, it was announced by Jobs during MacWorld that it was going to be Mac + Windows, so I don't know if my memory of the situation is about rumors before launch, if I misunderstood things because I was 13 at the time, or if I simply have mis-remembered because that was over 20 years ago, hah.
>>> - ~2001, Bungie develops Halo as a title for the launch of Mac gaming.
>> - Halo was announced in 1999, originally planned as an RTS for Windows + Mac, not for the launch of Mac gaming (not Mac only, although prior titles were focused on Mac only)
> How I read the OP (at least for this bullet) is in line with what I remember at the time: Halo was originally a Mac exclusive, and us Mac gamers (there were dozens of us, dozens!) generally perceived it as being the beginning of a golden era, where Mac would be taken as seriously as PC for games.
That's how I remember perceiving it: finally a Mac game that the PC gaming kids would be jealous of. Also, I think it had already evolved into a FPS before MS bought it (I remember thinking the vehicles would be really novel and compelling feature compared to PC FPSes).
Gaming with a Mac was a backwater in the 90s. All the popular games would get a belated Mac port, if that (e.g. by the time PC gamers moved on to Command and Conquer: Red Alert, I just was able to play the original Command and Conquer, and Red Alert was never ported at all). Bungie's games were Mac-only and good, but (for instance) by the time I played the Marathon series, the tech was dated.
Edit: corrected mistake, I was thinking about Command and Conquer/Red Alert, not Starcraft/Brood war.
>> - Halo was announced in 1999, originally planned as an RTS for Windows + Mac, not for the launch of Mac gaming (not Mac only, although prior titles were focused on Mac only)
> How I read the OP (at least for this bullet) is in line with what I remember at the time: Halo was originally a Mac exclusive, and us Mac gamers (there were dozens of us, dozens!) generally perceived it as being the beginning of a golden era, where Mac would be taken as seriously as PC for games.
That's how I remember perceiving it: finally a Mac game that the PC gaming kids would be jealous of. Also, I think it had already evolved into a FPS before MS bought it (I remember thinking the vehicles would be really novel and compelling feature compared to PC FPSes).
Gaming with a Mac was a backwater in the 90s. All the popular games would get a belated Mac port, if that (e.g. by the time PC gamers moved on to Command and Conquer: Red Alert, I just was able to play the original Command and Conquer, and Red Alert was never ported at all). Bungie's games were Mac-only and good, but (for instance) by the time I played the Marathon series, the tech was dated.
Edit: corrected mistake, I was thinking about Command and Conquer/Red Alert, not Starcraft/Brood war.
I think you are misremembering the Brood War release. It was available for Mac 6 months after the PC release, and the “battle chest”,which contained both StarCraft and brood war, was mac/windows hybrid. The battle chest was by far the biggest seller, too.
> I think you are misremembering the Brood War release. It was available for Mac 6 months after the PC release, and the “battle chest”,which contained both StarCraft and brood war, was mac/windows hybrid. The battle chest was by far the biggest seller, too.
Yeah, I think you're right. I was actually thinking about Command and Conquer: Red Alert. According to this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Command_%26_Conquer_me...), the original was released for PC in 1995. Red Alert and the the Mac port of the original were released in 1996. Red Alert was never ported.
Yeah, I think you're right. I was actually thinking about Command and Conquer: Red Alert. According to this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Command_%26_Conquer_me...), the original was released for PC in 1995. Red Alert and the the Mac port of the original were released in 1996. Red Alert was never ported.
You'd certainly be forgiven for thinking it was a Mac exclusive. You wouldn't think Steve Jobs would personally introduce a game that was multi-platform:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZ2yvWl9nQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZ2yvWl9nQ
One of the worst things about the internet, is almost nothing is impressive anymore. It's hard to describe now how outstanding that video was when it came out. And how rare it was to have an experience like that. To see something so many std devs better than the norm than anything else you had previously seen.
Now, so much (of everything) comes out so often, in every shape and size . And so many things are extreme for extreme sake, that it's hard to have that same wonder or amazement like seeing this for the first time.
Everything is now common place. Even revolutionary experiences are so common place they no longer really register anymore.
Now, so much (of everything) comes out so often, in every shape and size . And so many things are extreme for extreme sake, that it's hard to have that same wonder or amazement like seeing this for the first time.
Everything is now common place. Even revolutionary experiences are so common place they no longer really register anymore.
especially given how much of a Steve Jobs fanboy I was back in those days...
sure, in case it wasn't clear "~" is my shorthand for "approximate". I was going off vague memory and broad strokes. Not sure 2007 vs 2010 makes a big difference in terms of timeline, but I appreciate you filling in the details!
> - 2010-2019 Bungie partners with Activision, they coop to make Destiny - there was no acquisition
I said "teamed up", not acquired..?
Another commenter pointed out that Bungie left Acti.. true, I wasn't aware of that.
> There's no way MS considered a company that had a former relationship with an acquisition might be thrown in
Often acquisitions are also about "buying the network", not just the IP.
> - 2010-2019 Bungie partners with Activision, they coop to make Destiny - there was no acquisition
I said "teamed up", not acquired..?
Another commenter pointed out that Bungie left Acti.. true, I wasn't aware of that.
> There's no way MS considered a company that had a former relationship with an acquisition might be thrown in
Often acquisitions are also about "buying the network", not just the IP.
I do that too, I use ~ as an 'ish' so I tend to append rather than prepend. Just thought that was funny :)
It's kinda sad seeing them bought up again. I was reading https://www.vice.com/en/article/xwqjg3/the-complete-untold-h... yesterday (great but long read) and they really desperately wanted out of MS, and - victims of their own success with Halo 1 - made a lot of Halo games they didn't want to as the price of freedom. And now here they are again in a big conglomerate.
They were also originally a Classic Mac OS game shop. Marathon series & Minotaur: The Labyrinths of Crete where originally release on Mac. Myth & Oni were released for both Mac & Windows.
Your timeline is off Bungie left Activision years before and became independent leading up to now.
huh TIL.. slightly less ironic then.
> Have to wonder if MS thought they would get Bungie as part of the package.
So much of the drama in the Activision publishing contract on Destiny was that Activision intentionally got none of the IP. Bungie blamed the brutal expansion pack cadence and expansion pack prices on Activision covering their bases because they didn't have a stake as publisher in the IP. Which is probably true, but one of those "it takes two to tango" type things.
Bungie had a real nasty public break up with Activision just before Destiny 2 went free-to-play (and supposedly it is part of how they were able to get it free-to-play).
I'm sure Microsoft knew buying Activision would not give them any of Destiny or Bungie.
So much of the drama in the Activision publishing contract on Destiny was that Activision intentionally got none of the IP. Bungie blamed the brutal expansion pack cadence and expansion pack prices on Activision covering their bases because they didn't have a stake as publisher in the IP. Which is probably true, but one of those "it takes two to tango" type things.
Bungie had a real nasty public break up with Activision just before Destiny 2 went free-to-play (and supposedly it is part of how they were able to get it free-to-play).
I'm sure Microsoft knew buying Activision would not give them any of Destiny or Bungie.
> I'm sure Microsoft knew buying Activision would not give them any of Destiny or Bungie.
Microsoft's first clue that they wouldn't be getting Bungie is that Activision didn't own Bungie (it was a partnership over the Destiny IP), and that that partnership ended in 2019, a little over 3 years ago.
Microsoft's first clue that they wouldn't be getting Bungie is that Activision didn't own Bungie (it was a partnership over the Destiny IP), and that that partnership ended in 2019, a little over 3 years ago.
To me, this seems like Sony investing in a studio (and property) that has game-as-a-service title chops. MMOs like World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy 14 create a steady, predictable stream of income. While Destiny 2 doesn't have a monthly subscription, its regular content updates do create money on an annual basis, with aesthetic microtransactions to boot.
Contrast this to first-party Sony studios like Naughty Dog, which will take a minimum of several years to develop a game like The Last of Us or the next Uncharted. Even if you extend the moneymaking tail by trickling out DLC for a year or two after release, you're basically betting on a hit that will produce enough money at one time to justify paying several hundred salaries for several years after that. It's not hard to see why Sony would want a regular moneymaker in the difficult-to-break-into GAAS space.
And for Bungie, they've openly confirmed that they've had incubation projects for several years. Getting a gigantic publisher like Sony will give them the financial freedom they need to start building out whatever the next game is. This was basically the logic with the Activision partnership: they needed deep pockets upfront to build out the tech that powers Destiny. That done, they were able to return to their complete independence. Will it happen again?
Contrast this to first-party Sony studios like Naughty Dog, which will take a minimum of several years to develop a game like The Last of Us or the next Uncharted. Even if you extend the moneymaking tail by trickling out DLC for a year or two after release, you're basically betting on a hit that will produce enough money at one time to justify paying several hundred salaries for several years after that. It's not hard to see why Sony would want a regular moneymaker in the difficult-to-break-into GAAS space.
And for Bungie, they've openly confirmed that they've had incubation projects for several years. Getting a gigantic publisher like Sony will give them the financial freedom they need to start building out whatever the next game is. This was basically the logic with the Activision partnership: they needed deep pockets upfront to build out the tech that powers Destiny. That done, they were able to return to their complete independence. Will it happen again?
Destiny 2 has a seasonal pass model at $10 USD per 3 month season. Many of the ways to advance in the game are tied to the season pass so you could say it has a $3/mo subscription. That also doesn't take into account any cosmetics players purchase so there is a fair amount of regularly recurring revenue.
Reminds me of that quote about movies just being called Disneys, because Disney bought all the movie studios. The consolidation of everything seems like a loss for the gamer. You can bet the exclusives start to become much more serious in the future.
Seems like PC gamers are the real winners here though, as both Sony and Microsoft have been releasing very nice ports of AAA games such as Halo and God of War. Definitely a fan of this change, although I'm wary of these companies abusing their monopoly powers in the future.
Sounds like Bungie "lost". My sympathies to them. They stated after exiting Microsoft they wanted to remain independent from thenceforth (and part of why Destiny was named that, they saw it as putting their own Destiny in their own hands, it sounded like). They went through so much horror with Activision precisely because they wanted to remain independent, but it sounds like the fight with Activision left them more wounded than they wanted to admit if they are selling to Sony.
(I don't think Bungie entirely spiritually survived the split with 343 anyway, given the rumors of all the behind-the-scenes drama in the making of Destiny, but I was rooting for their continued independence as a fascinating story, even as I stopped playing Destiny 1/2 because I hated their economy.)
(I don't think Bungie entirely spiritually survived the split with 343 anyway, given the rumors of all the behind-the-scenes drama in the making of Destiny, but I was rooting for their continued independence as a fascinating story, even as I stopped playing Destiny 1/2 because I hated their economy.)
> They went through so much horror with Activision
That is a falsehood that a lot management at Bungie would love to keep perpetuating. A lot of the terrible and toxic management, the disrespecting of the community, and terrible game design decisions (especially around micro-transactions) all came from the senior management at Bungie.
That is a falsehood that a lot management at Bungie would love to keep perpetuating. A lot of the terrible and toxic management, the disrespecting of the community, and terrible game design decisions (especially around micro-transactions) all came from the senior management at Bungie.
I don't think we'll ever know exact details for certain in the public record, but it definitely feels like one of those "it takes two to tango" situations where both sides were toxic and inflamed the worst in each other. I do think a lot of what Bungie blames on Activision were decisions they would have made anyway but liked having someone to blame. (That's still a type of horror, gaslighting yourself that your publisher is the enemy rather than your partner.)
Disclaimer: Life-long Halo fan who also put 3k hours into Destiny 1
I think that Bungie has always been really bad at project management(I think this is reflected in Halo 2, Destiny 1 and to some extent Destiny 2) which I think even extends to 343, where Halo 5 and Infinite had more than enough time to develop a reasonably featured game but couldn’t manage it. I also think that somewhere along the way they lost that skilled touch Bungie had with its community back in the day. But of course, they are still masters of the core game loop and will therefore survive. I hear they’ve improved in recent years - that’s nice, but I’d never play a new Bungie game again.
I think that Bungie has always been really bad at project management(I think this is reflected in Halo 2, Destiny 1 and to some extent Destiny 2) which I think even extends to 343, where Halo 5 and Infinite had more than enough time to develop a reasonably featured game but couldn’t manage it. I also think that somewhere along the way they lost that skilled touch Bungie had with its community back in the day. But of course, they are still masters of the core game loop and will therefore survive. I hear they’ve improved in recent years - that’s nice, but I’d never play a new Bungie game again.
Wasn’t there a direct quote form Bungie senior leadership that they went with Activision because they came to them and pitched them how they can monetize multiplayer?
My Xbox friends that still play Destiny 2 are expecting the experience to worsen with the acquisition. Sony has paid Bungie/Activision a chunk of change/in kind advertising to make chunks of Destiny Playstation exclusive for years to the detriment of the Xbox experience (certain maps and certain weapons that would improve progress missing for a 12+ month window, etc). I'm not sure what the state of it is right now as I stopped playing once they adjusted Destiny 2 to be even more of a grindfest requiring far too many hours to progress. Plus, playing the same exact strikes over and over just got boring.
Those days are long gone; there's nothing platform exclusive in the game currently.
Good to know, thanks.
I don't know anyone that is in love with the destiny franchise. It gets boring pretty quickly and plenty of other games do PVP better. If destiny went PS exclusive I think it would only hurt the franchise/studio.
Meh, all these exclusives sound like they are just going to shoot each other in the foot. Gamers will end up with both consoles (sold as loss leaders) and spread their investment in games between the two. Lose/lose.
They've explicitly stated that none of their games are going to be exclusive. FAQ here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50989
(I play a lot of Destiny)
(I play a lot of Destiny)
They have said that "Destiny 2" wont be exclusive. Nothing else.
Edit: seems im wrong, apologies.
Edit: seems im wrong, apologies.
The 2nd last FAQ explicitly states something different:
--
Q. Bungie has future games in development, will they now become PlayStation exclusives?
No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-published, creatively independent, and we will continue to drive one, unified Bungie community.
--
Although I certainly won't take a wager on that still being true in 3-4 years.
--
Q. Bungie has future games in development, will they now become PlayStation exclusives?
No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-published, creatively independent, and we will continue to drive one, unified Bungie community.
--
Although I certainly won't take a wager on that still being true in 3-4 years.
Sony's more on board with having PC releases so I'd expect that to continue for sure as Bungie has had a playerbase there for a while.
But whether further-future releases look more like their "cross-platform" nature is just Playstation and PC, or there's Playstation timed exclusivity or exclusive features... I mean you'd have to think it's pretty likely.
But whether further-future releases look more like their "cross-platform" nature is just Playstation and PC, or there's Playstation timed exclusivity or exclusive features... I mean you'd have to think it's pretty likely.
You could argue this means only what is currently in development. Which kind of makes sense, if you already have all the target platforms in the works, might be easiest to ship them all in the intended platforms. I suppose.
> Q. Bungie has future games in development, will they now become PlayStation exclusives?
> No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-published, creatively independent, and we will continue to drive one, unified Bungie community.
> No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-published, creatively independent, and we will continue to drive one, unified Bungie community.
[deleted]
Hopefully Sony is smart enough to leave them alone. The independent Era of Bungie has led to one of the best ongoing stories I've ever seen in a game (Destiny 2). Don't kill the golden goose, Sony.
[deleted]
More discussion (w/3x upvotes): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30151580
This is such a colossally bad purchase, it's laughable in the wake of Microsoft buying Activision.
[deleted]
The takeaway I get from this is it's really hard to be a financially-stable independent studio.
I see it differently. I think we are seeing that console makers are realizing all the money is in games and not hardware, so they are buying up studios left & right. They also want to offer subscriptions to games which is easier when you own the games themselves.
Console sales have always been a break-even business over the lifetime of the generation. You lose LOTS of money up front, and eventually (in year 6 or 7) you may turn an overall profit on console sales.
Hardware accessories (e.g. controllers) are a bit better.
Assuming you can produce hits, first-party IP has always been the most profitable part of the value chain. But having 90% of your ecosystem come from 1P (like Nintendo) limits the size of the ecosystem.
Xbox traditionally had 30-40% of the overall content revenue come from 1P IP, and 60-70% were from 3P. Sony perhaps a bit more than that. Both were ecosystem plays.
It seems like both ecosystems are recognizing that they need exclusives to sustain their franchises.
Hardware accessories (e.g. controllers) are a bit better.
Assuming you can produce hits, first-party IP has always been the most profitable part of the value chain. But having 90% of your ecosystem come from 1P (like Nintendo) limits the size of the ecosystem.
Xbox traditionally had 30-40% of the overall content revenue come from 1P IP, and 60-70% were from 3P. Sony perhaps a bit more than that. Both were ecosystem plays.
It seems like both ecosystems are recognizing that they need exclusives to sustain their franchises.
- ~2001, Bungie develops Halo as a title for the launch of Mac gaming.
- MS snipes the IP and make it an Xbox flagship instead.
- Halo evolves as the lead IP of Xbox gaming.
- ~2010, Bungie gains independence from MS, but loses Halo in the divorce.
- Bungie teams up with Activision to stay competitive.
- 2022, MS acquires Activison! Bungie hangs in the balance.
- Bungie narrowly escapes MS clutches and teams up with Sony!
Have to wonder if MS thought they would get Bungie as part of the package.
Regardless, props to them for really forging their own "Destiny" ;)