Ask HN: Should I Keep the Code?
5 comments
> job on upwork.com as an algorithmic developer.
You were paid to write the code by these guys, they own the copyright and can do whatever they want with it. It is not "your code", you cannot "keep the code".
You should have insisted to simply get paid since nobody knows the future. I would take it from the rest of your story you will never see another cent of that from those guys since they stop working with you and "get another developer".
The best thing you can do is negotiate a cash fee only about the AWS handover task since the rest of it is already lost. Genuinely help them migrate, take the fee, and learn from this what not to do next time.
You were paid to write the code by these guys, they own the copyright and can do whatever they want with it. It is not "your code", you cannot "keep the code".
You should have insisted to simply get paid since nobody knows the future. I would take it from the rest of your story you will never see another cent of that from those guys since they stop working with you and "get another developer".
The best thing you can do is negotiate a cash fee only about the AWS handover task since the rest of it is already lost. Genuinely help them migrate, take the fee, and learn from this what not to do next time.
So I met them on upwork and establish a partnership, I was a minority partner in the firm, so it exceeded the scope of upwork. Then an extensive contract was signed.
I would get deferred income, per the contract. Deferred income is placed on the balance sheet as a liability. Unfortunately, isn’t on the balance sheet, so it doesn't exist. I think it's a breach of contract. Because services were rendered and deferred income wasn't even placed on the balance sheet. Investors in the firm would be miss led by the fraudulent accounting.
As for the code, you can't copyright code or algorithm. I took a very basic idea, such as buy above the 200 moving average and sell when it hits the 37.5 moving average. I took that silly type of algorithm that didn't work and made it profitable.
The reason they are moving to another "developer" is that I refused to do more work, without compensation. I should have known by the of parade of previous coders before me they shop for coders in an effort to make the silly algo work.
I will never see the $500K I might be able to get pennies on the dollar is my current thought. Aside from this last issue, I have come out stronger on the other side and I have developed my own profitable algos.
I do look forward to seeing this train wreck in my rear view mirror.
I would get deferred income, per the contract. Deferred income is placed on the balance sheet as a liability. Unfortunately, isn’t on the balance sheet, so it doesn't exist. I think it's a breach of contract. Because services were rendered and deferred income wasn't even placed on the balance sheet. Investors in the firm would be miss led by the fraudulent accounting.
As for the code, you can't copyright code or algorithm. I took a very basic idea, such as buy above the 200 moving average and sell when it hits the 37.5 moving average. I took that silly type of algorithm that didn't work and made it profitable.
The reason they are moving to another "developer" is that I refused to do more work, without compensation. I should have known by the of parade of previous coders before me they shop for coders in an effort to make the silly algo work.
I will never see the $500K I might be able to get pennies on the dollar is my current thought. Aside from this last issue, I have come out stronger on the other side and I have developed my own profitable algos.
I do look forward to seeing this train wreck in my rear view mirror.
Not a lawyer, but I'd rather sue them at least for the $500k "deferred income".
So the company is an LLC, there isn't $500k on account. So I could only sue them into bankruptcy.
:(
:(
Still better than getting zilch though, it's up to you to see if it's worth it (returns > legal fees). I'd keep the algorithm, tune it and earn money from it myself. Maybe. They can't sue you for using your brain to make something that earns money.
TLDR: Keep the code, it’s your only defense against unscrupulous business d-bags
This is a throwaway account because I’m under negotiations and don’t want to expose the alleged criminals just yet.
So about 2 ½ years ago I found a job on upwork.com as an algorithmic developer. For 2 years, I developed the real algorithm and the algorithm returned 500% over five years and 50% alone in 2021. It trades futures and has been trading for over 2 years. (I know that sounds a little outrageous, but can share actual trading records and backtested results, the volatility of 2020 helped profits.)
My job was to build a trading system and take a silly technical indicator that one of the partners had bought from someone else and turn it into profitable. The original code was in easy language/trade station so I know it wasn’t not terribly sophisticated. The other two partners were providing money with money and the ability to sell to clients. Sales skills are something I have always been deficient in.
It’s a complicated mess and mistakes were made on my part, but my salary was calculated from the profits of the monthly trading profits. In late 2019, I desperately wanted to get out of my low-stress, high-paid programming job, so I threw caution into the market and jumped in, unhedged.
So there were some months that I got nothing and then other months I got my full payment. Based on my contact, anytime I didn’t get paid it would be turned into deferred income. That deferred income has come out to be roughly $500k, for 2 years. Recently, I requested the financial statements of the company and that deferred income isn’t on the books.
I kept up my end by building the algorithm, but the two other partners never sold the algorithm to potential clients. I think in the end they weren’t good salespeople and didn’t understand that if you make money in the market you are also going to have days that you lose money. Just ask the man whole solved the market…
Since Oct 2021 the algorithm is on autopilot and I haven’t had much communication with the other partners. I have moved on, but the AWS server is in my name and my cost. Of course, it never occurred to the two partners that I essentially controlled all the servers/code.
I have asked for payment for the AWS costs, but now they don’t want to recognize my deferred income on the books, and they want me to move me down the list, in regards to payment if the company is ever profitable. They also want to give my code to another developer, who is going to take my work and probably make it a little better, but this developer is going to get paid cash which would be ahead of me, in terms of payment.
So I have hired a lawyer, but they gave me some general advice / and said that I had a contract and the other partners were violating it. However, I can sue them, they can sue me, it’s LLC vs. LLC and there are tremendous costs in just getting the issue to the court… at least $10,000 for arbitration. So at this point, it’s becoming quite an emotional drain and I would like to resolve this on a positive note of all my hard work. ( I don’t anticipate ever getting the $500k, I just don’t want them ever to have the code.)
Are there any lawyers that might be interested in some form of contingency, with the possibility of intellectual property? (I also have my own algorithms, that are far better than the one I’m currently arguing over.) Any thoughts, advice, or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Any website/chat rooms for disgruntled coders?
So I have made some dumb mistakes, but at the end of the day, I have code, so sue me?