Microsoft is killing custom domain names in Outlook.com(bigtechwire.com)
bigtechwire.com
Microsoft is killing custom domain names in Outlook.com
https://www.bigtechwire.com/2022/11/02/microsoft-is-killing-custom-domain-names-in-outlook-com/
144 comments
I host about a half dozen on Office 365. When Apple came out, I switched my wife over to iCloud, since we were paying for apple anyways.
Big mistake. Spam filtering on Apple is absolutely horrific. The volume of crap she started to receive was amazing.
Flipped back.
Big mistake. Spam filtering on Apple is absolutely horrific. The volume of crap she started to receive was amazing.
Flipped back.
I experienced the same thing. I switched a couple of domains over to iCloud and within a week moved them elsewhere. I went from pracically no spam to hundreds of blatently obvious and easy to catch spam emails hitting the inboxes every day.
I dont know what Apple uses for spam protection, but its total junk. I could roll a better spam protection myself!
I dont know what Apple uses for spam protection, but its total junk. I could roll a better spam protection myself!
As far as I can tell, they are still using Oracle’s flavor of the Sun Internet Mail Server, which was such a piece of unfettered crap when I had to run it in 1999-2004 that we had to set up proxy MTAs in front.
Hmm. Maybe there’s a learning element or a bug with custom domains? I’ve used iCloud for years and rarely see spam in my inbox.
What client do you use? I switched to iCloud and started using the Apple Mail app for its integration with Hidden Email Addresses, but the app is totally half baked with tons to weird behaviours (ex. Send an email. A week later no response, click reply on the email and now you are emailing yourself. Ok, so click Reply-all and now you need to delete yourself and move the original recipient to the To line. No one-click way to start a follow up email!)
I’ve used Apple Mail on iOS and Mac exclusively for about 5-6 years. Maybe my workflow is just adapted but the only issues I’ve had were the macOS version occasionally locking up or giving inconsistent search results usually solved by restarting the app.
I just moved to iCloud and have the opposite problem. I forward my gmail emails to it, and most of them end up in the spam folder.
To contrast, I set up a brand new email and slowly migrated my critical access to the new iCloud domain. Virtually all my other sign-up accounts are still routing to gmail, I just left that dumpster fire to burn and re-access only when needed.
My spam inbound rate has been non-existent.
My spam inbound rate has been non-existent.
In your case, gmail is the dumpster fire?
It was the most sensible way to escape nearly 5000 unread emails, and avoid that issue from recurring; iCloud stays at inbox zero.
Noted.
Lack of catch all there seems to be a blocker for many including me
Supports catch-all now
It supports it since iOS 15 if I’m not mistaken (last year release)
This is probably the best dollar I spend every month
This is probably the best dollar I spend every month
Email isn’t done on the OS though. A server is doing it. Is there a reason Apple hides this behind an iOS version?
The user above you was mistaken. You can flip it from the web settings. I was running it on my iOS 14.6 device for a while.
It’s announced alongside new iOS versions at WWDC and Apple doesn’t break out new iCloud features separate from their new OS feature pages.
I only found out about this benefit of iCloud+ a few days ago, thankfully a few days before my prior solution was due to renew for another 2 years at a vastly more expensive rate.
Certainly easy to set up. DNS with CloudFlare and it was able to do it all with just a login confirmation from my side of things.
Certainly easy to set up. DNS with CloudFlare and it was able to do it all with just a login confirmation from my side of things.
Yup. I was already paying for iCloud and already had my custom domain email on Google.
Happily switched and never went back.
Perhaps I get an extra one more junk every other three day or week, but I can definitely live with that without giving a single penny to Google.
Happily switched and never went back.
Perhaps I get an extra one more junk every other three day or week, but I can definitely live with that without giving a single penny to Google.
TL;DR is: If you're interested in inexpensive email hosting for custom domains, consider OpenSRS.
Recently Google stopped support for custom domains for free*, so I moved my domains recently for a similar reason.
I have a couple domains and they all point back to a few mailboxes. Many of the services I looked at were going to charge me per domain per mailbox not just per mailbox so the prices were artificially high.
I signed up as a domain reseller at OpenSRS and pointed my domain's MX entries over to them and... that was it. Super easy.
This gets me a mailbox for $0.50 per 5gb per month. I have two real mailboxes, dozens of aliases spanning multiple domains, and an email forwarder (sending to certain addresses emails to both my wife and myself) for $1.10/mo.
The negatives:
The price beat the socks off of anyone else I had looked at and finally encouraged me to get off of GMail.
Recently Google stopped support for custom domains for free*, so I moved my domains recently for a similar reason.
I have a couple domains and they all point back to a few mailboxes. Many of the services I looked at were going to charge me per domain per mailbox not just per mailbox so the prices were artificially high.
I signed up as a domain reseller at OpenSRS and pointed my domain's MX entries over to them and... that was it. Super easy.
This gets me a mailbox for $0.50 per 5gb per month. I have two real mailboxes, dozens of aliases spanning multiple domains, and an email forwarder (sending to certain addresses emails to both my wife and myself) for $1.10/mo.
The negatives:
* I've been spoiled by gmail's search capabilities.
* I'm not a domain expert and not a mail admin, so I worried I was going to mess it up. I didn't, it wasn't terribly painful, you can do it.
* I was told they didn't support plus addresses ([email protected]) so I purged my plus-address logins, only to find they really do support plus logins later.
The price beat the socks off of anyone else I had looked at and finally encouraged me to get off of GMail.
* I'd been a "legacy" customer, and yes, they backtracked but by the time they *officially* agreed to keep supporting me I'd already needed to make a decisionI set up a gmail adress, and routed all my domains through CloudFlares new Email product. It's free, and lets you route email to as many addresses as you want (? I think...) to other adresses, in this case my Gmail account. I then set up my GMail account with one profile per incoming address, and to automatically use the corresponding address when replying.
How does replying work? Specifically, if you're sending email from MyCoolDomain.com and you don't have DKIM/SPF/etc., aren't you going to face potential deliverability issues? Or is Google sending the message as `[email protected] via [email protected]` (and exposing your Gmail address in replies)?
I guess you could specify Google's servers for SPF purposes without any coordination on Google's part, but Google would need to sign the message for things like DKIM. Do they do that for domains that you aren't actually connecting?
I guess you could specify Google's servers for SPF purposes without any coordination on Google's part, but Google would need to sign the message for things like DKIM. Do they do that for domains that you aren't actually connecting?
> Or is Google sending the message as `[email protected] via [email protected]` (and exposing your Gmail address in replies)?
Yeah the gmail account shows up in the headers as Return-path.
Google don't DKIM sign it (there's a X-Google-DKIM-Signature header, but that's obviously ignored), so I think it'll still trigger DMARC if you have that setup.
However, their SMTP servers should still reject other people sending on that address' behalf if they attempt to. It'll just bounce and send you an undeliverable mail along the lines of 'You no longer have access to blah@customdomain'
Yeah the gmail account shows up in the headers as Return-path.
Google don't DKIM sign it (there's a X-Google-DKIM-Signature header, but that's obviously ignored), so I think it'll still trigger DMARC if you have that setup.
However, their SMTP servers should still reject other people sending on that address' behalf if they attempt to. It'll just bounce and send you an undeliverable mail along the lines of 'You no longer have access to blah@customdomain'
Have you tried this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32793838#32797052
Yes. The thing is, they announced they were "considering" a plan for personal-use domains but then didn't follow through until the switch over due date was almost upon us.
They also obfuscated the path to acknowledge you were a personal-domain user.
Obviously, they wanted everyone to just switch over to being a paying customer (which is shocking, I know, given that they're a business and all ;D).
I figured if I was going to pay, I may as well do some research.
I decided that, for my needs, the OpenSRS solution was a good fit and was a fraction of the price (~$1/mo vs ...$12ish/mo?).
IIRC, about two weeks before the cutoff they finally and made it official and you could sign up for the personal-use domain. By that time I'd already gone to the effort of finding a new solution and was annoyed at the obfuscation tactics, so I went ahead and moved.
... but I also clicked that box, so all I have to do is point my MX records back to google and I'd be back on the juice.
They also obfuscated the path to acknowledge you were a personal-domain user.
Obviously, they wanted everyone to just switch over to being a paying customer (which is shocking, I know, given that they're a business and all ;D).
I figured if I was going to pay, I may as well do some research.
I decided that, for my needs, the OpenSRS solution was a good fit and was a fraction of the price (~$1/mo vs ...$12ish/mo?).
IIRC, about two weeks before the cutoff they finally and made it official and you could sign up for the personal-use domain. By that time I'd already gone to the effort of finding a new solution and was annoyed at the obfuscation tactics, so I went ahead and moved.
... but I also clicked that box, so all I have to do is point my MX records back to google and I'd be back on the juice.
I was really hoping Microsoft would expand this feature. I currently use a Microsoft 365 Business account for my personal email, and it feels like using a chainsaw to open a letter. One of the biggest gripes I have is the fact that a "Microsoft Account" and a Microsoft 365 account are two separate things, and you can't use a Microsoft 365 Account email for a Microsoft Account. Several Microsoft services only work with Microsoft Accounts, so I keep a @outlook.com email around just for those rare instances.
For example, I believe Xbox only allows Microsoft Accounts, so I wouldn't be able to login to an Xbox using my primary email address.
For example, I believe Xbox only allows Microsoft Accounts, so I wouldn't be able to login to an Xbox using my primary email address.
We use Microsoft 365 business at work and I hate that exact experience. Every time you sign into a Microsoft service you play the coinflip game of: "Does This Accept Work/School Accounts?" And some of them even change over time! Windows Insider (as individual, not Group Policy-/WSUS-deployed) would not see my M365 Business account until recently.
At this point, I just made a "personal" @outlook.com account for the few things that don't.
At this point, I just made a "personal" @outlook.com account for the few things that don't.
> it feels like using a chainsaw to open a letter
Oh yes this sums it up perfectly. I'm a MSP and most of my clients use either google or ms365 and I gotta say the microsoft solution feels so damn clunky and setting scattered around different domains and services. It feels like it's built around (sub(sub))licenses and googles solution feels like it's built for actual users
Oh yes this sums it up perfectly. I'm a MSP and most of my clients use either google or ms365 and I gotta say the microsoft solution feels so damn clunky and setting scattered around different domains and services. It feels like it's built around (sub(sub))licenses and googles solution feels like it's built for actual users
This is actually something I like. Our experiences are the same but my preferences are for Microsoft. The admin side of MS365 is far better to my tastes and use cases than Google Workspace. Not that I enjoy the game of constantly changing control panel locations, but I like where MS365 is headed generally.
As someone who used a custom-domain-Gmail as a primary account, it caused issues in various places. I think some of the issue is wanting to separate corporate accounts (which shouldn't be leaking and entangling information outside the company) from the rest of their ecosystem.
I have a Microsoft Account with my Gmail address. Can you no longer create a Microsoft Account with an outside email address? Or do they specifically prevent Microsoft 365 addresses from creating Microsoft Accounts?
I have a Microsoft Account with my Gmail address. Can you no longer create a Microsoft Account with an outside email address? Or do they specifically prevent Microsoft 365 addresses from creating Microsoft Accounts?
I just got the email mentioned in the article (and that's the only blog source I found for it, including Microsoft.com). After the whole G Suite Free cancellation I thought about switching my domain email to Outlook for that benefit, but I decided against moving. Guess that was a good call.
If you're looking for a new provider I'd vouch for Fastmail. I switched from Google's free plan back when they killed Inbox, and I've been pretty happy with it.
Tutanota is not bad either. Still a small provider but growing. They have also E2EE calendar.
Did not care for Tutanota, mostly because I don't want to have yet another Electron app running. I just wanted to use Tutanota as an email host, with E2EE enabled where available/feasible. Instead, I couldn't use Thunderbird to access my email, which kind of killed it for me.
PGP encryption is problematic, and Tutanota is not using it. Therefore, adding Thunderbird support is challenging.
There are around 15 people working in Tutanota, and without Electron they really can’t provide it for every platform.
There are around 15 people working in Tutanota, and without Electron they really can’t provide it for every platform.
My problem is that I use my G Suite Free as a sort-of alias, it all still goes to my main Gmail (that I can't change due to billions of accounts pointing to it) and I then send replies back with the @domain.name identity (and associated SMTP).
I haven't been able to find a service to fill that niche that isn't a whole inbox, but also doesn't feel like some shaky registrar IMAP/SMTP setup. It's definitely a deliverability perk to have Google serve my domain.
Cloudflare have a really nice incoming email redirection feature and I wanted to use it, but they don't support sending emails by design.
I haven't been able to find a service to fill that niche that isn't a whole inbox, but also doesn't feel like some shaky registrar IMAP/SMTP setup. It's definitely a deliverability perk to have Google serve my domain.
Cloudflare have a really nice incoming email redirection feature and I wanted to use it, but they don't support sending emails by design.
You can configure Fastmail to do that, but I guess it would be in reverse. I have some old Google accounts (old student email and pre-custom domain gmail) configured to forward mail to Fastmail, and then Fastmail configured to send email via Google for those email addresses too.
https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000278022-Us...
https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000278022-Us...
You might be able to find a solution in migadu (https://www.migadu.com/)
I found Migadu through a HN post like this and can't recommend them enough. It feels like having my own mail server without the headaches. The pricing model works for me and I find the control panel really well laid out. I don't think I could return to an email provider that leases emails at my own domain back to me.
Wow, this is exactly what I'm looking for. How often do emails you send go to other people's spam? Do you know people with an outlook email?
I've not experienced that problem. I'm uncertain how many Outlook inboxes I've mailed, but I have done so and they did work.
I use Fastmail, and have it pull in my gmail account via IMAP. I actually don’t have too much sent to my gmail these days, as I was already using the custom domain with gmail for many years before I switched providers, but what does get sent to it comes through just fine.
I'm not sure why this can't work with basically any email provider? Setup you domain like normal, and configure gmail to forward all incoming mail to your address on your domain.
What is the feature you're missing here?
What is the feature you're missing here?
It can, but then pricing bothers me. I just got so used to G Suite free that I don't want to tack on a $10/month subscription for forwarding. (It's silly given the myriad of other subscriptions I'm fine with, though)
You're not paying for forwarding, you're paying for someone to host a whole email stack for you (and the associated dev work such as on clients).
You can choose to use a "free" provider like Gmail if you're ok with paying with your data and a lack of features (such as not being able to use a custom domain).
Also by the way, Fastmail is half the price you list at $5/month (might have to prepay a year to get that price).
You can choose to use a "free" provider like Gmail if you're ok with paying with your data and a lack of features (such as not being able to use a custom domain).
Also by the way, Fastmail is half the price you list at $5/month (might have to prepay a year to get that price).
> You're not paying for forwarding, you're paying for someone to host a whole email stack for you (and the associated dev work such as on clients).
I know, and I love ProtonMail (for example) for that, but my use would just be forwarding and not storage or access. In my use case it would feel like overpaying.
> You can choose to use a "free" provider like Gmail if you're ok with paying with your data and a lack of features (such as not being able to use a custom domain).
It's versus G Suite Free (which is my secondary, "online name" email), my main (real name) email has to stay at Gmail because I'm afraid of the mountain of account resets I'd have to do. To be fair, this whole value consideration was back when Google were threatening to kill off G Suite Free entirely (a few months ago), so it was paid-versus-paid then.
> Also by the way, Fastmail is half the price you list at $5/month
Fair, $10/month was off the top of my head.
I know, and I love ProtonMail (for example) for that, but my use would just be forwarding and not storage or access. In my use case it would feel like overpaying.
> You can choose to use a "free" provider like Gmail if you're ok with paying with your data and a lack of features (such as not being able to use a custom domain).
It's versus G Suite Free (which is my secondary, "online name" email), my main (real name) email has to stay at Gmail because I'm afraid of the mountain of account resets I'd have to do. To be fair, this whole value consideration was back when Google were threatening to kill off G Suite Free entirely (a few months ago), so it was paid-versus-paid then.
> Also by the way, Fastmail is half the price you list at $5/month
Fair, $10/month was off the top of my head.
> I know, and I love ProtonMail (for example) for that, but my use would just be forwarding and not storage or access. In my use case it would feel like overpaying.
It sounded to me like you were _sending_ email as well from your custom domain, which is (in my opinion) the hardest and most expensive part of running a mail service.
If you're only going to use it for forwarding you could just use something like Cloudflare's service as you previously mentioned.
It sounded to me like you were _sending_ email as well from your custom domain, which is (in my opinion) the hardest and most expensive part of running a mail service.
If you're only going to use it for forwarding you could just use something like Cloudflare's service as you previously mentioned.
This would've not impacted you, if you did move - they stop offering the feature to new customers, but will keep it working for existing users.
I've had a couple of free emails with custom domains setup probably 15 years ago (Microsoft went through a few different names for this service since) and they work to this day. The only difference is I can't create new email accounts in the custom domains.
I've had a couple of free emails with custom domains setup probably 15 years ago (Microsoft went through a few different names for this service since) and they work to this day. The only difference is I can't create new email accounts in the custom domains.
I was in the same boat. Now feeling lucky I didn't make that mistake.
Makes you wonder how much of this has to do with fraud and spam mitigation. It must be bad enough that they are throwing out the baby...
Makes you wonder how much of this has to do with fraud and spam mitigation. It must be bad enough that they are throwing out the baby...
It would, because I make aliases and other mailboxes occasionally. (E.g.: Apple/Google developer program public-facing alias) I don't want to be locked into just the one name forever.
I had a similar thought, although I ended up actually trying out Microsoft's full O365 suite instead since I figured if I was going to end up paying for something, I might as well consider alternatives that might be less flaky than Google's commitment to products.
Sounds like Outlook wouldn't have been a good choice with this feature getting killed, but O365 was a whole different kind of hassle. For my incredibly simple setup, it was amazing how complex Microsoft managed to make it. I have never had to read so much documentation in my life to do what were intuitive tasks in G Suite's interface. I ended up abandoning it for Cloudflare+Sendgrid which met my needs and was simpler to set up despite involving two different providers. Honestly I think configuring my own mail server from scratch would have been simpler than Microsoft made it.
All that to say, my impression is that Microsoft is not really interested in serving the power user or small team market and is comfortable with a feature set and interface intended for what would otherwise be an Exchange admin at a Fortune 500. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but I get it from a profit margin standpoint at the very least.
Sounds like Outlook wouldn't have been a good choice with this feature getting killed, but O365 was a whole different kind of hassle. For my incredibly simple setup, it was amazing how complex Microsoft managed to make it. I have never had to read so much documentation in my life to do what were intuitive tasks in G Suite's interface. I ended up abandoning it for Cloudflare+Sendgrid which met my needs and was simpler to set up despite involving two different providers. Honestly I think configuring my own mail server from scratch would have been simpler than Microsoft made it.
All that to say, my impression is that Microsoft is not really interested in serving the power user or small team market and is comfortable with a feature set and interface intended for what would otherwise be an Exchange admin at a Fortune 500. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but I get it from a profit margin standpoint at the very least.
He says in 4 weeks but it's actually 1 year and 4 weeks.
It was a PITA feature anyway for the family plans, requiring the domain be hosted on GoDaddy. I can't imagine it was a super popular feature.
It was a PITA feature anyway for the family plans, requiring the domain be hosted on GoDaddy. I can't imagine it was a super popular feature.
There’s actually a trick where you don’t have to use Godaddy. I don’t know why they don’t open this up to users who want it. All you have to do is find the DNS challenge in the query param that’s passed to Godaddy. After that there’s no real persistent connection. Have been using a custom domain on the family plan for over a year this way, with my domain on Namecheap.
Oh really? I thought I just had to point DNS entries and that's it. Bah, I guess I don't mind then.
Ew, why on earth would they lock that down to force you to use what is hands down the worst domain registrar out there?!
Looks like they are giving 1 year before actually introducing that change. It's either the quote or the article wrong saying users will have only 4 weeks remaining.
Yeah, the article is wrong, you have 1 year to associate new custom domain addresses before the option to add is removed.
That's a bit of shrinkflation. I always wanted to use it, but for some reason they only supported GoDaddy domains which I definitely do not want. I guess it is Apple for me now.
I decided I wanted to use M365 and the domain to use it with simultaneously, so GoDaddy was the path of least resistance. I'd have avoided them if I realized it could be avoided.
Later I found out that the URL they used to forward you to GoDaddy's website happened to include the content of the records needed in DNS. Others were successful with other DNS providers. You just clicked the link, added the DNS records from the link manually, and eventually it'd validate.
Glad to see this won't affect current users.
Later I found out that the URL they used to forward you to GoDaddy's website happened to include the content of the records needed in DNS. Others were successful with other DNS providers. You just clicked the link, added the DNS records from the link manually, and eventually it'd validate.
Glad to see this won't affect current users.
I use the Zoho free plan for up to five email addresses (not counting group aliases) on several domains for maybe four years now. works great for basic email!
I pay for FastMail (out of UI preference) but was with Zoho for a while and don't have a bad word to say about them. Especially for free, but even if they weren't.
They should kill entirety of Outlook.com. It's been years and they can't get the spam under control. Nor the absolutely garbage UI.
You mean the e-mail client that the vast majority of U.S. companies use daily to send and receive millions if not billions of emails?
Yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on that.
Yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on that.
No I meant the free Outlook.com web based email and everything to do with that.
Then I would say "Outlook.com" instead of "the entirety of Outlook" because they are very different things.
I personally was not confused because I am aware that Outlook.com is a web based email service and Outlook is a piece of software.
[deleted]
He did say "outlook.com".
Are they different products?
Yes, very. outlook.com (formerly known as Hotmail) is an email provider. Outlook is an email client which can be used with any email provider.
I fucking hate MS branding, every fucking name confused into multiple services (remember Skype vs Skype for business ? That was different tech stack?) I thought he was talking about outlook.office365.com.
Also, outlook.com redirects to outlook.live.com/owa ....
Also, outlook.com redirects to outlook.live.com/owa ....
Outlook is terrible, regardless.
I've been using it on and off since the 90's and it feels like it gets worse every year, the current iteration is barely usable.
I've been using it on and off since the 90's and it feels like it gets worse every year, the current iteration is barely usable.
As always Microsoft prioritizes the wrong things: for example with Microsoft Teams (they're not addressing the performance issues).
Same goes with Outlook. See what they introduced recently: https://twitter.com/DenysVitali/status/1587752974062944256
Wtf?
Same goes with Outlook. See what they introduced recently: https://twitter.com/DenysVitali/status/1587752974062944256
Wtf?
We had the first rollout of that feature, where it was just "" and only on the web. It was weird, being able to "like" email messages but no one saw it unless they opened the web client.
But that's nothing compared to "the new Outlook"[1] being a webview around the Outlook.com UI library. It looks really nice in concepts but once installed it just feels like a browser in a frame: there's a window-sized splash screen, the fonts are "browser-y" (i.e.: wrong smoothing compared to Office), controls "feel" web, etc. I usually like Office Insider but once that rolled out I immediately reverted.
1: https://insider.office.com/en-us/blog/new-outlook-for-window...
EDIT: Originally called it "Electron" as a catch-all, forgot about Edge webview.
But that's nothing compared to "the new Outlook"[1] being a webview around the Outlook.com UI library. It looks really nice in concepts but once installed it just feels like a browser in a frame: there's a window-sized splash screen, the fonts are "browser-y" (i.e.: wrong smoothing compared to Office), controls "feel" web, etc. I usually like Office Insider but once that rolled out I immediately reverted.
1: https://insider.office.com/en-us/blog/new-outlook-for-window...
EDIT: Originally called it "Electron" as a catch-all, forgot about Edge webview.
I would be shocked if the new Outlook was Electron and not WebView2. Is there any confirmation on that or is Electron the new "Rollerblade" and "Band-aid" for wrappers?
It's probably that, I'm just used to calling webview apps "Electron" out of habit. Changed the word.
Either way, it felt really bad coming off the native, animated, efficient Office UI. And I'm usually not against Electron/webview apps.
Either way, it felt really bad coming off the native, animated, efficient Office UI. And I'm usually not against Electron/webview apps.
> Microsoft Teams
Teams is just a an Electron (AKA Chrome shit-client) program. So nothing can be done, unless they want to re-write the program from scratch. I'm not saying the current situation is acceptable, its not. But when you choose Electron, you more or less doom your product to having awful performance forever.
Teams is just a an Electron (AKA Chrome shit-client) program. So nothing can be done, unless they want to re-write the program from scratch. I'm not saying the current situation is acceptable, its not. But when you choose Electron, you more or less doom your product to having awful performance forever.
I don't believe that nothing can be done just because it's electron. VS Code gets perfectly fine performance.
> VS Code gets perfectly fine performance
did you forget a "/s" or something?
did you forget a "/s" or something?
Compared to Teams...
Web version is also shit and we have other non-shit chat programs so it clearly can be better.
Teams is already very close to switching off of Electron to WebView2.
> WebView2
you realize thats just another Chrome shit-client right?
you realize thats just another Chrome shit-client right?
Well, that's one very opinionated take.
Yes, it's still web-based, but the parent's point is that it uses the WebView2 that comes with Windows instead of maintaining and shipping a separate Electron instance. That ought to be a net positive in any case.
OK, so Microsoft copy pasted the Chromium codebase, made some minor changes, built it, then include that build with Windows.
How is that any better than the current situation? Its actually worse, since now that version will get old quite fast, unless Microsoft decides to also do forced updates like Google does.
How is that any better than the current situation? Its actually worse, since now that version will get old quite fast, unless Microsoft decides to also do forced updates like Google does.
> How is that any better than the current situation?
The main benefits are that the apps should be faster, smaller, and use less resources as they don't include the whole of Electron (Chrome) with each one. So ideally massively less resource usage as so much is shared.
Running VS Code and Teams at the same time, for instance, would ideally use around half of the resources (a naive guess but you see the point).
As you allude to, though, it relies on MS keeping it updated but I would hope they take that seriously as if it takes off then one late update leaves multiple apps vulnerable. It remains to be seen.
The main benefits are that the apps should be faster, smaller, and use less resources as they don't include the whole of Electron (Chrome) with each one. So ideally massively less resource usage as so much is shared.
Running VS Code and Teams at the same time, for instance, would ideally use around half of the resources (a naive guess but you see the point).
As you allude to, though, it relies on MS keeping it updated but I would hope they take that seriously as if it takes off then one late update leaves multiple apps vulnerable. It remains to be seen.
WebView2 updates on the same cadence as Edge. Major updates every four weeks, security updates as needed.
Source? "Teams for Life" aka Teams Personal is different to Teams (for Business).
I've been using Outlook email primarily for the last decade. Not that much spam, compared to other mailboxes I have.
If they got rid of outlook, then I'd have to find a new email address to give away to every signin place that wants my email and I suspect will email me promotional garbage (or sell my email).
I guess this means that I'm reducing the signal they get for what "good" email is, as approximately 100 percent of the emails I get there are promotional or spam.
I guess this means that I'm reducing the signal they get for what "good" email is, as approximately 100 percent of the emails I get there are promotional or spam.
The SWEEP feature of outlook is the ultimate email spam feature. If you've never used it, try it and your spam problem will be poof in a few clicks.
It's a pity sweep is desktop web only.
Their email alias feature is cool, allows you to change your login ID retroactively.
I wish they'd take it a step further by allowing me to set a login-only ID e.g. the login ID cannot be used to send nor receive emails (security by obscurity).
It's a pity sweep is desktop web only.
Their email alias feature is cool, allows you to change your login ID retroactively.
I wish they'd take it a step further by allowing me to set a login-only ID e.g. the login ID cannot be used to send nor receive emails (security by obscurity).
They all have problems with spam. Outlook, Google, Fastmail. I wouldn't say that's a reason to shut the service down.
The difference is I hardly ever see spam on Gmail and Fastmail. Whereas outlook it's 10 delivered every 4hours that the Android app notifies me for! And stuff that should be easily identifiable as spam too.
What do you mean by that? Are you having spam in your inbox or do mean deliverability issues to *.outlook.com?
Steadily growing spam sent to my Inbox. Delivery issues I have not had those recently but 3 years or so ago my job offer letter was not received. I was kinda spooked after that.
OK, thanks. well, that is indeed quite unfortunate.. regarding things like lost job offers and the like.. Sad state of affairs, i mean e-mail in 2022. But, as an mail-service operator myself, i feel like i can understand, more or less, both sides dealing with the spam issue.
My wife's SMB+personalized email is on the Exchange Online (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/exchange/compa...) Plan 1 for JUST THE EMAIL for $5.51/mo. Funny, the plan right this moment is $4.00/mo, I wonder why we're paying extra? Probably not worth troubleshooting though, the service is worth it.
Anyhow, I helped her transfer the email from Network Solutions to Microsoft, it was reasonably well documented with guard rails on both sides. It's been rock solid for over a year now. She has a hotmail account for junk and Microsoft account stuff.
Anyhow, I helped her transfer the email from Network Solutions to Microsoft, it was reasonably well documented with guard rails on both sides. It's been rock solid for over a year now. She has a hotmail account for junk and Microsoft account stuff.
Services like ImprovMX will love this. They can make any domain you own and link it to your email account without setup on the mailbox. gandi.net gives you 2 free inboxes for every domain you own, but the free tier has limited services and size.
This is a serious limitation. You used to be able to point up to 99 email addresses, from any domain you wanted, to your outlook.com account. It removes the value from this service.
It was done poorly, you had to have Godaddy as your registrar and nameserver. If they'd just include this in a cheap O365 package with the same O365 setup it would be better.
You can use something other than Godaddy, though the process is a little complicated: https://www.reddit.com/r/Office365/comments/ft15pk/use_perso...
Umm...
"appears current subscribers have around 4 weeks" MS: "as of Nov 2023"
I'm thinking someone mathed wrong, but by my calculation this is over a year from now, not around a month.
"appears current subscribers have around 4 weeks" MS: "as of Nov 2023"
I'm thinking someone mathed wrong, but by my calculation this is over a year from now, not around a month.
Anyone on that who also is on Apple ecosystem:
Switch to iCloud's custom domain mail (free if you already have iCloud storage plan), never look back.
Switch to iCloud's custom domain mail (free if you already have iCloud storage plan), never look back.
I've mostly stopped using free services wherever feasible. You get what you pay for.
The only free thing I really don't wanna give up is Google Photos. It's really convenient to just search "health insurance card" and the picture of my card pops up. Likewise for "apple pie", "sunset", "statue", etc.
The only free thing I really don't wanna give up is Google Photos. It's really convenient to just search "health insurance card" and the picture of my card pops up. Likewise for "apple pie", "sunset", "statue", etc.
Surely there is better way to store important documents than Google Photos. That Google is able to identify the type of document that is uploaded to Google Photos is even more terrifying.
I don't think Office 365 allows me to reply as the recipient of the email, unless I create a mailbox or an explicit alias.
Are there applications that allow this?
In other words, I have a catch-all on my domain, and I get an email on [email protected].
But my login is [email protected]. On Office365 I cannot reply from [email protected] unless I add it as an alias.
Are there applications that allow this?
In other words, I have a catch-all on my domain, and I get an email on [email protected].
But my login is [email protected]. On Office365 I cannot reply from [email protected] unless I add it as an alias.
SimpleLogin does exactly this, the person emails [email protected], you receive that email from [email protected], and when you reply to that out of your [email protected] inbox, SimpleLogin will send the reply back out from [email protected].
Plus it’s from the ProtonMail gang so it’s reasonably secure and private.
Plus it’s from the ProtonMail gang so it’s reasonably secure and private.
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I'm a happy fastmail customer using 4 custom domains. They haven't let me down once.
Yeah, this. I found Fastmail on HN and moved over all my domains and just use catch alls for them with a single mailbox. Works smoother than I could’ve ever imagined, including being able to reply from all my custom domains from my same inbox. Highly recommend.
Almost sounds like MS Exchange is being shut down. What is it exactly they are talking about?
Outlook.com webmail.
But separately, MS is definitely killing on-prem Exchange as well. Maybe not today, but they have been very clear that they want everyone in their cloud.
But separately, MS is definitely killing on-prem Exchange as well. Maybe not today, but they have been very clear that they want everyone in their cloud.
To be honest I like MS Exchange without on-premise. Email depends on the internet anyway so there is no reason not to use a well maintained cloud service. Makes life easier for IT departments.
I have a 365 family subscription thing (got it on discount from MS friends) and looked into the custom domain but it was missing important features like catch-all. Glad I didn't adopt it now.
Spammers love this feature of Outlook.com. Services like Outlook.com and Gmail are good at ensuring that their servers are not blocked and that their email gets delivered, perfect for spam delivery.
Here is a fun one... You get spam from that appears to be from outlook.com. You look at the email header and find the IP address. You lookup the IP Address registration info and find that it is registered to Microsoft, included in that registration is the email address [email protected]. You email [email protected] to tell them about the spammer, they respond telling you that you told the wrong people and refuse to send your message to the right people. Microsoft could care less about being a major spam provider.
Here is a fun one... You get spam from that appears to be from outlook.com. You look at the email header and find the IP address. You lookup the IP Address registration info and find that it is registered to Microsoft, included in that registration is the email address [email protected]. You email [email protected] to tell them about the spammer, they respond telling you that you told the wrong people and refuse to send your message to the right people. Microsoft could care less about being a major spam provider.
This is about using a custom domain, and it's not a free feature. It's only if you pay for Microsoft 365 Personal/Family, or any of the 365 business plans. (They're killing it for 365 Personal/Family plans)
Spammers can still use a [email protected] address as before, and if they made it to having a domain + paid Microsoft 365 subscription, Microsoft have a credit card to blacklist.
Spammers can still use a [email protected] address as before, and if they made it to having a domain + paid Microsoft 365 subscription, Microsoft have a credit card to blacklist.
I get plenty of custom domain name spam that comes through outlook.com (I'm not even talking about M365/O365). Free or not, Outlook.com is abused for spam constantly.
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Outlook.com custom domain is M365/O365, it's one of the paid features in those plans.
Fair enough. For $7.00 you can add up to 900 domains to one account and spam away for a month. As long as you setup SPF, DMARC, and DKIM then your messages are likely to be delivered. Switch accounts and domains as often as you like. It is not much of a cost and almost all of it can be automated.
You can basically create a dummy email with any provider and send spam email not just with custom domains.
The article is incorrect - whatever is happening, it is only next year.
I have Outlook Premium (in a family plan) with a custom domain and didn’t receive any such e-mail, either.
I have Outlook Premium (in a family plan) with a custom domain and didn’t receive any such e-mail, either.
This wasn't a free feature right? It was something people were paying for with 365Whatver packages? Why would they get rid of it?
Article gives little/no insight.
Article gives little/no insight.
...so the 'why' is because of spam abuse??
For some reason I have been putting off migrating mine and my clients to Zoho for years; this is the "final straw" I needed to start the process.
Fastmail is the best full-featured provider I could find although I wish they didn’t have a limit on aliases.
currently (or before they remove it) custom domains for outlook are locked with godaddy, meaning you have to have the domain registered with godaddy, or transfer your domain to godaddy
i hope they bring back this feature, but open it to any registrar
i hope they bring back this feature, but open it to any registrar
FYI my domain started on godaddy, but I migrated to cloudflare immediately and it has carried on working fine since then.
Not entirely true, I got it working just fine using cloudflare. You just have to create the right DNS entries by hand.
hmmm. I have had my personal domain on google domains. But have had a custom domain email with outlook from back when it was free. Though I guess I'll need to migrate to something else now.
Love that Microsoft gives you a year to sign up for a deprecated feature.
Happy Purelymail user for about a year and a half now. Multiple custom domains, easy routing, and cheap. It does have a "bus factor" of 1, though, so something like Fastmail might be preferable to some people.
Does this mean my GoDaddy Office 365 e-mail is going away?
So, this won't work anymore with GoDaddy domains?
Cue evil laughter from MS board of directors.
Tangentially, I've been using my own domain with Gmail for years, but as of ~1y ago, it's been causing me problems. Emails sent from such custom addresses to my domain (which forwards back to my gmail) get a "This might be phishing" banner.
See, Gmail lets you configure it so that you can send emails as another address. This required a bit of verification via a DNS check, but trivial if you controlled your domain.
However, with the advent of SPF/DKIM/DMARC enforcing, this doesn't work well anymore. My main problem is that my domain is configured to forward select emails back to gmail. This breaks SPF, and I haven't yet found a way to fix this with Gmail.
I guess I need to wade through some SPF/DKIM/DMARC documentation. Google's own has not been useful.
See, Gmail lets you configure it so that you can send emails as another address. This required a bit of verification via a DNS check, but trivial if you controlled your domain.
However, with the advent of SPF/DKIM/DMARC enforcing, this doesn't work well anymore. My main problem is that my domain is configured to forward select emails back to gmail. This breaks SPF, and I haven't yet found a way to fix this with Gmail.
I guess I need to wade through some SPF/DKIM/DMARC documentation. Google's own has not been useful.
Here are the records I am using with cloudflare. Ive never had an issue
@
v=spf1 a mx include:_spf.google.com include:_spf.mx.cloudflare.net ~all
_dmarc
v=DMARC1; p=none; rua=mailto:[email protected]; aspf=r;
The way I have it set up is that cloudflare catches all my email and then routes it to my gmail account. My gmail then uses my email as a "send as" address. No DKIM record is needed because google is the one sending the emails with smtp, but dmarc and spf are needed either way.
@
v=spf1 a mx include:_spf.google.com include:_spf.mx.cloudflare.net ~all
_dmarc
v=DMARC1; p=none; rua=mailto:[email protected]; aspf=r;
The way I have it set up is that cloudflare catches all my email and then routes it to my gmail account. My gmail then uses my email as a "send as" address. No DKIM record is needed because google is the one sending the emails with smtp, but dmarc and spf are needed either way.
> This breaks SPF
The way to do this forwarding would be to remail it in the same way that mailing lists do, rather than a SMTP forward.
The sender (SMTP envelope sender) gets rewritten, and so SPF is good. The From: header stays the same. SPF doesn't care about the From: header, only the SMTP envelope sender.
The way to do this forwarding would be to remail it in the same way that mailing lists do, rather than a SMTP forward.
The sender (SMTP envelope sender) gets rewritten, and so SPF is good. The From: header stays the same. SPF doesn't care about the From: header, only the SMTP envelope sender.
How do I do that in Gmail?
not possible in gmail. It'd have to be done on the intermediary forwarding server.
Awfully easy to do, even if you’re wary of DNS.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212514