Ask HN: Why is everyone in tech so performative/two faced
33 comments
Ok I will give you a simple method to separate the 2 groups of nerds and hustlers. Now this is not fool proof, but is good for about 80% of the time.
If they approach you - Hustler.
If you HAVE to start the conversation - Nerd - you might have to restart it too.
Most nerds are so involved in tech that they do not spend time working on social skills.
Most hustlers skip the tech and refine their social skills.
So find some techie forums / meetup / events and start interacting.
Myself I can fake social for about 15 to 30 minutes, but then I am exhausted. And I could not hustle my way out of a paper bag.
If they approach you - Hustler.
If you HAVE to start the conversation - Nerd - you might have to restart it too.
Most nerds are so involved in tech that they do not spend time working on social skills.
Most hustlers skip the tech and refine their social skills.
So find some techie forums / meetup / events and start interacting.
Myself I can fake social for about 15 to 30 minutes, but then I am exhausted. And I could not hustle my way out of a paper bag.
This is good advice
I never understood the point of coffee chats There is no way we will develop a relationship naturally within these 30 minutes, and now its awkward if you ask me for something. Too transactional I assume they are all hustlers.. Lol!
I never understood the point of coffee chats There is no way we will develop a relationship naturally within these 30 minutes, and now its awkward if you ask me for something. Too transactional I assume they are all hustlers.. Lol!
Ehh I am the nerd and I’ll start the convo. I actually think this gets me in trouble. People judge the book by the cover.
This question ignores that this problem exists with people as a whole.
People after all are full of emotions and are ego driven. I think that most of people’s negative responses intimately boil down to fear…
This new hire makes me look bad I am worried that so and so is better than me What if their implementation is better and their company does better than mine
Instead of being happy and comfortable with the uncomfortable people react poorly
This question ignores that this problem exists with people as a whole.
People after all are full of emotions and are ego driven. I think that most of people’s negative responses intimately boil down to fear…
This new hire makes me look bad I am worried that so and so is better than me What if their implementation is better and their company does better than mine
Instead of being happy and comfortable with the uncomfortable people react poorly
> What happened to building cool stuff, not having an ego and being real.
There are certainly developers building stuff just for the passion of solving problems and producing high quality products. You have to know where to find these people, because they aren’t common and typically are not self promoting.
The people more interested in marketing and promoting themselves tend to devote more time and attention to that noise than the energy required to solving challenging problems.
There are certainly developers building stuff just for the passion of solving problems and producing high quality products. You have to know where to find these people, because they aren’t common and typically are not self promoting.
The people more interested in marketing and promoting themselves tend to devote more time and attention to that noise than the energy required to solving challenging problems.
There's a game, played by certain rules. One way to win the game is to adopt a persona or alter ego, which acts as a form of sandbox/VM.
Those who play the game well get money. The money attracts players from all over the world. More money attracts more competitive players. A $300k salary and some artificial rules like interview mastery attracts more gamey types.
There are places that don't play by those rules. There will still be some gamification - for example, the other rules may reward those who share knowledge, are polite, honest, down to earth, and so on. They may still be performative, but it looks less like one.
There's a reason hackers go around in t-shirts and uncombed hair, and it's performative in itself.
Those who play the game well get money. The money attracts players from all over the world. More money attracts more competitive players. A $300k salary and some artificial rules like interview mastery attracts more gamey types.
There are places that don't play by those rules. There will still be some gamification - for example, the other rules may reward those who share knowledge, are polite, honest, down to earth, and so on. They may still be performative, but it looks less like one.
There's a reason hackers go around in t-shirts and uncombed hair, and it's performative in itself.
It’s because Tech is too broad a word, encompassing curious engineers with pure motives all the way to hucksters shilling their offerings for ad revenue.
Try hanging out with people who have paying jobs doing the thing. (Not trying to break in, not founding a startup, not selling an idea). I worked at a FAANG company. People were honestly smart, capable, humble. (There was a strong correlation between the most effective tech people and their humility)
Maybe I got lucky. In retrospect I probably got super lucky.
Maybe I got lucky. In retrospect I probably got super lucky.
That sounds so awesome
It seems to me that there are many people in almost every field who are more interested in what you can do for them, than in working with you collaboratively to build something meaningful.
I don't know that there are more or less of them in tech, than in other fields.
I don't know that there are more or less of them in tech, than in other fields.
pick your clique: nerds & hustlers
the two tribes of tech
the two tribes of tech
im not smart enough to be around the nerds, but im not douchey enough to hang with the hustlers.
I pick nerds. Hopefully they accept me.
not a great basis of discrimination tbh, there are people with dignity in spirit and there are those without, there's no other quirks etcetra for you or anyone else to have to identify yourselves/others with as very essential.
because theres so much money in it...try the arts, social services, religion, primary and secondary sectors, and people are way nicer
You're suggesting mixing with the right-brainers, who can drive the left-brainers crazy, and vice versa.
Ugh.. all those things are lame to me.
Haha!!
Haha!!
Welcome to the human species!
You may be hanging with the wrong crowds in the sense that your people are out there somewhere and you just haven't found them yet, but your people are still a minority. One would hope that tech would have more genuine and curious people, but I swear most of us are hustlers who bought a shovel for a particular gold rush.
In my experience, you'll have the best luck finding likeminded people at hacker spaces and conferences.
You may be hanging with the wrong crowds in the sense that your people are out there somewhere and you just haven't found them yet, but your people are still a minority. One would hope that tech would have more genuine and curious people, but I swear most of us are hustlers who bought a shovel for a particular gold rush.
In my experience, you'll have the best luck finding likeminded people at hacker spaces and conferences.
[deleted]
Are you talking to founders or engineers?
If it’s the founder I totally get it. Time is money and money is time.
If it’s engineers then they need to realize they’re just expense line items. And they need to chill the fuck out.
If it’s the founder I totally get it. Time is money and money is time.
If it’s engineers then they need to realize they’re just expense line items. And they need to chill the fuck out.
founders
The engineers tend to be on the nicer side
Then yeah it makes perfect sense.
Founders are business people.
Seems like you need to respect their time if I’m being honest. And if you want someone to take time out for you, then you have to bring something.
Engineers get paid because they couldn’t figure out how to capitalize their own skill like founder (and they will have to scale that over many employees).
That’s why they have time, they get paid.
Are you trolling with your post? Because if so congrats. Good rage bait.
Founders are business people.
Seems like you need to respect their time if I’m being honest. And if you want someone to take time out for you, then you have to bring something.
Engineers get paid because they couldn’t figure out how to capitalize their own skill like founder (and they will have to scale that over many employees).
That’s why they have time, they get paid.
Are you trolling with your post? Because if so congrats. Good rage bait.
No i am not trolling, id post something way more controversial if so
You can be successful in business while being authentic. Thats coming from a founder. There is no excuse to be rude/performative/annoying and just say oh well im a founder so its fine. I understand respecting time but the points i said in my post are still true.
All im saying is that im seeing a lot of fake/weird behavior and that shouldnt be normalized. Be a cool person..
You can be successful in business while being authentic. Thats coming from a founder. There is no excuse to be rude/performative/annoying and just say oh well im a founder so its fine. I understand respecting time but the points i said in my post are still true.
All im saying is that im seeing a lot of fake/weird behavior and that shouldnt be normalized. Be a cool person..
Gotcha. Thanks. Honestly if you meet ppl like that just don’t take it personally. Most founders are pretentious.
But even the good ones have opportunity cost to balance.
But even the good ones have opportunity cost to balance.
Agreed
You make a solid point
balooned ego = insecurity blackhole
what kinds of things have you built?
nothing that interesting or has made lots of money.
Ive been making little projects and i like new ideas and inventing
made a couple social networks in high school + sold counterfeit hall passes i tried making a snowball gun toy lots of random businesses like 10+ and dropshipping right now working on a startup related to odor in healthcare/crime scene settings
Im not the coolest SaaS person on the block.. but just my take on what ive observed
made a couple social networks in high school + sold counterfeit hall passes i tried making a snowball gun toy lots of random businesses like 10+ and dropshipping right now working on a startup related to odor in healthcare/crime scene settings
Im not the coolest SaaS person on the block.. but just my take on what ive observed
Find a local space for the first thing or focus on something like the startup in particular and real spaces for that. Otherwise don’t succumb to the anecdotal bias
I love the idea of accelerators and those spaces to meet others i just worry i wont fit in because i am not the most experienced or deep in tech. Thank you for the advice
How does one find local spaces like that?
Lol.
Capitalism breeds and rewards sociopathic behavior: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... and tech is the most ruthlessly capitalistic, and thus sociopathic, sector. Note that almost every recent innovation made by tech (crypto, NFTs and AI) is defined by naked grift and hype.
The second the internet became a place to make "real money" its fate was sealed.
The second the internet became a place to make "real money" its fate was sealed.
It feels 70% of people I meet, are trying to determine what you can get them, if u r important enough or trying to butter you up in a coffee chat
What happened to building cool stuff, not having a ego and being real. Sorry if this isnt allowed. I dont know where else to post. Am i hanging out in the wrong crowds?