Ask HN: How to negotiate large salaries?
Hey, looking for a bit of advice on moving jobs. My current job pays me really well, about $150k including benefits. I've been approached to go to another company for a job I'd be really interested in doing but I know for a fact theyre low balling me with an offer of $125k, I have several friends who work there and I know this is the starting salary for a role about 1-2 levels below wha they're asking me to do. I think they should be offering more in the range of $190-200k including benefits (which I know they can easily afford). What's the best way to go about trying to push for this kind of number? It's obviously a lot but the role I think justifies it and in gross terms it's a big difference in expectations between offer and my expectations. I'm a bit put out by the low balling as they must know that I know that's it's low for the role.
11 comments
Patrick McKenzie (patio11 here on HN) has written quite a lot about salary negotiation and pricing. For me it has been an eye opening resource. Highly recommended! Start with https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ which I hope will be immediately helpful, but I recommend reading everything on his blog.
patio11: If you read this, thank you for sharing your knowledge so freely!
patio11: If you read this, thank you for sharing your knowledge so freely!
I think you should approach it as their starting offer and negotiate from there, especially if you know people there and the payscale.
If 200k is what you want tell the recruiter "If you can get me to 200k its a done deal and I'll sign the offer." This makes it clear what you want, takes pressure off them because they know they have you for sure if they meet the number and can sell the hiring committee and if anything they will come back with a number somewhere in the middle.
Oh and make sure you negotiate your benefits first, as it'll be harder for them to give your more once they've stretched themselves.
If 200k is what you want tell the recruiter "If you can get me to 200k its a done deal and I'll sign the offer." This makes it clear what you want, takes pressure off them because they know they have you for sure if they meet the number and can sell the hiring committee and if anything they will come back with a number somewhere in the middle.
Oh and make sure you negotiate your benefits first, as it'll be harder for them to give your more once they've stretched themselves.
Not OP, but what do you mean by benefits? Like options / bonuses?
Healthcare, retirement fund, more days off, remote work, sabbatical...
Just everything beyond monthly salary
There's a bit of a Dunning-Kruger effect analog when it comes to sizing up candidates.
You may be worth $175k to the company, and be in a realistic position to know that. The person hiring you may not be good at his job and may honestly value you at $125k. After all, his current staff were valued by others (and are thus known quantities) and must by definition be worth what they're paid (even if they're in reality only worth $80k).
I'd give that position a miss, since being bad at valuing needed talent is a red flag for being bad at other essential aspects of quality management.
It's an extremely rare bit of candor for a candidate to say, straight-out, you don't pay enough. Despite the value of this information, most hiring managers don't see it as valuable.
You may be worth $175k to the company, and be in a realistic position to know that. The person hiring you may not be good at his job and may honestly value you at $125k. After all, his current staff were valued by others (and are thus known quantities) and must by definition be worth what they're paid (even if they're in reality only worth $80k).
I'd give that position a miss, since being bad at valuing needed talent is a red flag for being bad at other essential aspects of quality management.
It's an extremely rare bit of candor for a candidate to say, straight-out, you don't pay enough. Despite the value of this information, most hiring managers don't see it as valuable.
What's wrong with explaining exactly what you explained here?
It's not like you're in a desperate situation where you need to use some trick to avoid losing the offer at any cost. So just ask away.
It's not like you're in a desperate situation where you need to use some trick to avoid losing the offer at any cost. So just ask away.
At face value it is easy to ask, take your experience (if it is 10+ years in the game) and you have successfully completed many projects send them a response asking for $200,000 and it will be a done deal if they can actually pay that. If that is out of their range, they will normally tell you and you may have to keep looking. I have seen some employees that were literally generating millions for a company but only being paid $80,000/year, poor benefits, .5% raise and no additional compensation (bonuses, stocks, 401k, etc.) or should I say a larger share of their contributions. Good companies will try to give bonuses or above inflation raises at the least.
If you do not have around 10 years and only about 5 then 125k to 150k is a pretty good range if you are really good and have the actual work experience. If you are in a really high cost area you will need to take into consideration the cost of living there. If you do not ask for enough it may limit your living options and after work options. It is normally easier to give a number higher than you want and bring it down to something you really want.
Though, you can really only ask for this rate if you are in the top pool of capabilities, performance and results and the interview is amazing. You also have to consider the amount of risks you are accepting by wanting more money. There will be things that you will be expected to know and do that would not be asked of people they are paying less. These can be things like building entire complex systems from scratch by yourself under little to no supervision under tight deadlines, be called upon to travel to other sites around the world because you would be the one trusted to just get it done and your known to get it done right.
If you are applying for jobs in a popular metro location the chances of making the higher ranges is normally higher.
If you do not have around 10 years and only about 5 then 125k to 150k is a pretty good range if you are really good and have the actual work experience. If you are in a really high cost area you will need to take into consideration the cost of living there. If you do not ask for enough it may limit your living options and after work options. It is normally easier to give a number higher than you want and bring it down to something you really want.
Though, you can really only ask for this rate if you are in the top pool of capabilities, performance and results and the interview is amazing. You also have to consider the amount of risks you are accepting by wanting more money. There will be things that you will be expected to know and do that would not be asked of people they are paying less. These can be things like building entire complex systems from scratch by yourself under little to no supervision under tight deadlines, be called upon to travel to other sites around the world because you would be the one trusted to just get it done and your known to get it done right.
If you are applying for jobs in a popular metro location the chances of making the higher ranges is normally higher.
There is a part in the negotiation book Never Split the Difference that covers salary negotiation. I would highly recommend it.
It's easier to pay first engineers a higher amount after you get funded.
When the money dries up, it gets harder to offer even the same amount to an equally capable or a better developer.
Is it an established company?
When the money dries up, it gets harder to offer even the same amount to an equally capable or a better developer.
Is it an established company?