Ask YC: I think i have some great ideas for websites, but I don't code. What to do?
I can't code to save my life, but I know a fair amount about graphics and usability. I'm pretty tech'd up on the web-social scene too.
I don't know any coders who'd work on ideas (all too busy on careers)
Is it worth going the rentacoder route? Will it bite me in the ass if takes off?<p>I have my ideas on paper, with specifications, screen designs etc etc. How can I create these into websites?
24 comments
Why not learn? "I can't code to save my life" -- this doesn't have to be a permanent condition. Unless someone's truly a moron, I don't think there are many people who truly can't code, just like there aren't many people who can't learn to play a musical instrument or to write well or to play chess. Coding is a skill like any other. Since you have an interest in tech, give it a try. There are plenty of people on the Internet who are willing to help you out.
Ever hear of a phrase cost of opportunity?(Unless you are unemployed, chances are its a better financial decision to work and pay someone 20K to code a product, than spending that time learning and coding it yourself) + chances are the quality of code, a complete amateur creates will not be optimal.(full of bugs, not secure, with a very crappy design etc)
If you just need to build some special purpose application sure, it's better to hire a specialist to do it for you. But if you're talking about starting a business it pays to either learn how to develop software yourself or get a partner that can do it. Trying to outsource the core of your business is just nuts.
While the initial code you write might not be optimal you'll at least understand the code, have a clue what to do when something goes wrong and be better equipped to hire technical talent when the time comes.
While the initial code you write might not be optimal you'll at least understand the code, have a clue what to do when something goes wrong and be better equipped to hire technical talent when the time comes.
You are approaching this as a hacker, you know your stuff. Chances are you can build a _____ clone in a weekend. While in that same time the non-hacker who is trying to learn, will achieve at most a hello world application.
Lets face it, the web moves very fast, if you take an extra month to roll out, you increase the chances that another competitor will get into your space and will eat up all the market share, way before you even get your product launched.
Ideas are not unique, if you have an idea chances are a hundred other people are already working on that same idea.
So between hiring someone and having a product out in 3 months, and doing it yourself and learning and having it out in a year(if that)...I'd go with 3 months, each and every time. Nothing is stopping you from learning that same code while your app is being built by someone else.
Should you know how to read code? Absolutely, but it takes that much less effort to learn how to read code, compared to writing it and figuring out the hundreds of different technologies.
Lets face it, most of the stuff on the internet is not that innovative. Usually its just a mashup of existing tech/ideas...if that. So you really aren't giving away any state secrets to the people you outsource to. And as long as the company is in USA you have plenty of legal ammunition to prevent them from stealing your ideas.
And maybe outsourcing your business is nuts, but at least when you outsource you have the option of actually getting your business off the ground. Instead of destining it to failure because you really didn't know what you were doing.
As far as having a clue when something goes wrong, once again you are approaching this as a hacker. You know what to look for when code crashes.
An amateur would be much more happier to call/email his development company and have them fix the problem, instead of reading through thousands lines of code to see what could it be, that went wrong.
You do have something with technical talent, but you can always bullshit your way through that, by either hiring a recruitment company or having a few hackers recommend you some people.
Lets face it, the web moves very fast, if you take an extra month to roll out, you increase the chances that another competitor will get into your space and will eat up all the market share, way before you even get your product launched.
Ideas are not unique, if you have an idea chances are a hundred other people are already working on that same idea.
So between hiring someone and having a product out in 3 months, and doing it yourself and learning and having it out in a year(if that)...I'd go with 3 months, each and every time. Nothing is stopping you from learning that same code while your app is being built by someone else.
Should you know how to read code? Absolutely, but it takes that much less effort to learn how to read code, compared to writing it and figuring out the hundreds of different technologies.
Lets face it, most of the stuff on the internet is not that innovative. Usually its just a mashup of existing tech/ideas...if that. So you really aren't giving away any state secrets to the people you outsource to. And as long as the company is in USA you have plenty of legal ammunition to prevent them from stealing your ideas.
And maybe outsourcing your business is nuts, but at least when you outsource you have the option of actually getting your business off the ground. Instead of destining it to failure because you really didn't know what you were doing.
As far as having a clue when something goes wrong, once again you are approaching this as a hacker. You know what to look for when code crashes.
An amateur would be much more happier to call/email his development company and have them fix the problem, instead of reading through thousands lines of code to see what could it be, that went wrong.
You do have something with technical talent, but you can always bullshit your way through that, by either hiring a recruitment company or having a few hackers recommend you some people.
completely agree. you can make progress quickly and cheaply, and start learning about the customers and technology, by outsourcing. in my view, it will be nice to have a scaling or slow code problem--for many web apps, that proves that there is demand and its worth investing more time an d$.
using a rented coder has worked in the past--digg was started with help from elance.
http://digg.com/programming/Digg_com_created_for_only_200_00
elance, guru, and odesk offer cheap options to start small.
using a rented coder has worked in the past--digg was started with help from elance.
http://digg.com/programming/Digg_com_created_for_only_200_00
elance, guru, and odesk offer cheap options to start small.
Learning to code is one thing but learning to debug is something else. Even if you can figure out how to build something, it takes a certain tenacity and logical thinking to figure out how to solve a problem. Some people have it, some people don't and some just don't want to do it.
Don't think that because you can get Hello World! working over the weekend that you're ready for the big idea!
Don't think that because you can get Hello World! working over the weekend that you're ready for the big idea!
I agree. Its not hard to get into web programming. Use a framework (CakePHP, Ruby on Rails, etc.) and learn the associated language as you go a long.
I do have a programming history, but I learnt the basics of ruby and rails in a weekend! ;)
I do have a programming history, but I learnt the basics of ruby and rails in a weekend! ;)
Between getting into and becoming truly adept is a giant chasm.
If you have a talent for design, step it up several notches. Great talent will seek you out.
If you have a talent for design, step it up several notches. Great talent will seek you out.
agreed. there are no lack of great hackers looking for great partners. most people misunderstand their own lack of tenacity and good ideas for lack of good hackers
It really depends on what your ideas for a website are. If you are thinking along the lines of a brand new web app, you'll certainly need to look for someone or spend some time learning, if it's something simple, you might be able to do most of it on your own.
First thing I would do: Create my own website. It doesn't have to be anything special, just a 5 page html-only site. This will make sure you understand the basics of websites. If you're already comfortable with this you could step it up to setting up a blog with wordpress or another content manager. This will give you a brief introduction to databases.
If you already are at this level, great. If not, it will help you to communicate with whoever you end up working with. It also gives you some idea of what's involved and what is and isn't possible.
When you get down to it, almost anything is possible. It just takes significantly more effort if something is done one way and then a change is attempted.
First thing I would do: Create my own website. It doesn't have to be anything special, just a 5 page html-only site. This will make sure you understand the basics of websites. If you're already comfortable with this you could step it up to setting up a blog with wordpress or another content manager. This will give you a brief introduction to databases.
If you already are at this level, great. If not, it will help you to communicate with whoever you end up working with. It also gives you some idea of what's involved and what is and isn't possible.
When you get down to it, almost anything is possible. It just takes significantly more effort if something is done one way and then a change is attempted.
http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ojbyrne
worked once...
worked once...
NONONONO! Please do not bother with a "Rent a coder" route.
Find a coding partner who will partner you.
If you truly have a great idea and the drive, you will be able to find the right person.
Most of the "business" people who whine about not being able to find the right partners are the ones with the terrible ideas and lack of drive.
M
Find a coding partner who will partner you.
If you truly have a great idea and the drive, you will be able to find the right person.
Most of the "business" people who whine about not being able to find the right partners are the ones with the terrible ideas and lack of drive.
M
This is my first post, i registered to ask this. Hope that's ok. Fwiw I've been reading here for a long time ...
I can code... would you like to give me a brief overview of what your idea is?
Email me @ gmail.com
Email me @ gmail.com
This may be a bit contrary to public opinion here, but realistically, depending on the difficulty of implementing your idea ... learning to code might not be good enough. It'd be a good idea to do anyways, but might not be your answer.
University/Work/Church/Geographical Region -- look extensively into your current network of friends, family, colleagues, etc.
Or find someone here.
University/Work/Church/Geographical Region -- look extensively into your current network of friends, family, colleagues, etc.
Or find someone here.
Or a perl, java, .NET, python, ruby, PHP user group or a Linux /BSD user group.
You could take a 2-prong approach: see how far you get on your own by defining the core functionality: database schema , the CRUD operations you'll be doing (transactional side) and report generation / summary tools you'll need (analytical side). Don't worry about HTML, CSS and javascript, Shoot for something that barely renders in 1 browser (opera or firefox), but you'll have to learn mySQL or postgres or SQLite reasonably well, and it'll tell you how complex the app is, roughly.
Then write up a RFP describing the core functionality, something you could take to a web app developer and they could put together numbers of how many hours to produce wireframes, basic models and controllers and a first prototype.
and, oh yea, do some searching on searchyc.com, reddit, techcrunch, see if somebody's done it already. This is tricky, you may go through dozens of sets of keywords.
You could take a 2-prong approach: see how far you get on your own by defining the core functionality: database schema , the CRUD operations you'll be doing (transactional side) and report generation / summary tools you'll need (analytical side). Don't worry about HTML, CSS and javascript, Shoot for something that barely renders in 1 browser (opera or firefox), but you'll have to learn mySQL or postgres or SQLite reasonably well, and it'll tell you how complex the app is, roughly.
Then write up a RFP describing the core functionality, something you could take to a web app developer and they could put together numbers of how many hours to produce wireframes, basic models and controllers and a first prototype.
and, oh yea, do some searching on searchyc.com, reddit, techcrunch, see if somebody's done it already. This is tricky, you may go through dozens of sets of keywords.
Learn to code -- that's what I did. It doesn't take much to get to the point where you can implement your ideas.
If there's one thing I believe in, it's not waiting for other people to help you or cut you a break -- just learn what you need to learn to make it happen.
If there's one thing I believe in, it's not waiting for other people to help you or cut you a break -- just learn what you need to learn to make it happen.
I tried the route of learning programming myself and I can tell you that even if you can learn the basics in no time, it will take far longer to get up to speed with most of the folks on this site in terms of ability.
I took up Rails and am glad I did, but I realised that my skill was severely lacking. I was lucky to somehow find a partner with excellent programming skills and a server to host our baby.
What I suggest is to teach yourself programming in the mean time, while you are waiting for your partner. Don't jump into it for the sake of it or if you're not fully comfortable or sure of the other person.
I'm sure you wouldn't do that with marriage. :)
Show off your design skills. Great developers are always looking to pair up with great designers.
Learn, programming is not rocket science, it is easy as you go along. There are tons of good people and documentation to hold your hand as you go along. You can only learn swimming by jumping in the water, So Just Jump.
well it can be ;) (I joke)
Add me to your messengers and let's discuss them. I'm always interested in new projects.
Yahoo: shrimp20
AIM: evicerator52
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Email: webmaster-at-michaelwalesREMOVEME.com
learn how to code