Afghanistan: Taliban to reap $1T mineral wealth(dw.com)
dw.com
Afghanistan: Taliban to reap $1T mineral wealth
https://www.dw.com/en/afghanistan-taliban-to-reap-1-trillion-mineral-wealth/a-58888765
84 comments
Remember that part about China moving quickly to recognize them?
The Taliban joins the Belt and Road Initiative[0] in 3, 2, 1...
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative
Imagine going to a country by building infrastructure and not with bombs to destroy it..hmm I wonder what would the populace prefer.
Chinese belt and road projects are notoriously opaque but often have China bringing the financing, labor, and infrastructure. Foreign companies are often largely left out. The people benefit very little as the resources and value extracted return to China. The workers themselves are largely Chinese workers. The bribed officials get benefit and some profit is shared with the companies, but the populace largely gets nothing and sees the natural resources just taken.
[1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-bills-its-belt-and-road-a...
[1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-bills-its-belt-and-road-a...
Chinese might even kill two birds with one stone guaranteeing purely Muslim work force. No more Chinese concentration camps, all outsource to Afghanistan.
> Chinese belt and road projects are notoriously opaque but often have China bringing the financing, labor, and infrastructure.
It's so opaque that you know who is funding, building, etc? Right. Also, who else is going to bring the financing? And as for infrastructure, hasn't china shown to be the best at it?
> Foreign companies are often largely left out.
So what? It's a china led project which the west is opposed. What do you expect?
> The people benefit very little as the resources and value extracted return to China.
That's true for everybody. The people benefit very little. Do you think "the people" benefited from Canada sending timber to the US or Australia selling iron ore to china for decades?
Why don't we offer a better deal? So using your logic, afghanistan shouldn't trade with anyone?
If china's deal is that awful and afghanistan is choosing them, doesn't it really show how even more for awful everyone else is?
Also, I wouldn't take anything by wsj, rupert murdoch owned and controlled propaganda outlet, seriously when it comes to china as his propaganda empire is peddling the most anti-china propaganda.
Do you think "the west" cares about afghanistan, africa or any nation involved in BRI? Do you think we are mad because china is ripping them off or that china is actually giving these BRI nations a good deal? My guess is the latter. Or we worried that china is ripping off afghanistan, a nation we invaded and brutalized for decades? Or are you worried because china is giving them the best deal? Be honest. Given how evil we've been for a few centuries now, which do you think?
It's so opaque that you know who is funding, building, etc? Right. Also, who else is going to bring the financing? And as for infrastructure, hasn't china shown to be the best at it?
> Foreign companies are often largely left out.
So what? It's a china led project which the west is opposed. What do you expect?
> The people benefit very little as the resources and value extracted return to China.
That's true for everybody. The people benefit very little. Do you think "the people" benefited from Canada sending timber to the US or Australia selling iron ore to china for decades?
Why don't we offer a better deal? So using your logic, afghanistan shouldn't trade with anyone?
If china's deal is that awful and afghanistan is choosing them, doesn't it really show how even more for awful everyone else is?
Also, I wouldn't take anything by wsj, rupert murdoch owned and controlled propaganda outlet, seriously when it comes to china as his propaganda empire is peddling the most anti-china propaganda.
Do you think "the west" cares about afghanistan, africa or any nation involved in BRI? Do you think we are mad because china is ripping them off or that china is actually giving these BRI nations a good deal? My guess is the latter. Or we worried that china is ripping off afghanistan, a nation we invaded and brutalized for decades? Or are you worried because china is giving them the best deal? Be honest. Given how evil we've been for a few centuries now, which do you think?
China is doing more for those countries than the West ever has or will.
Yeah, sure, they're building the infrastructure to strip the country bare, but the West hasn't been much better. Funding wars and bribing officials to keep a country poor and disorganized in order to plunder it has been the modus operandi for decades. Before then it was straight slavery.
If the Taliban make billions and build modern cities, I bet you anything that large Western countries will sell their good there. Apple, Mc Donalds, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Yves Saint Laurent, Rolex, VW, Ferrari, and so many more will be trying to conquer the market.
It's just business.
Yeah, sure, they're building the infrastructure to strip the country bare, but the West hasn't been much better. Funding wars and bribing officials to keep a country poor and disorganized in order to plunder it has been the modus operandi for decades. Before then it was straight slavery.
If the Taliban make billions and build modern cities, I bet you anything that large Western countries will sell their good there. Apple, Mc Donalds, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Yves Saint Laurent, Rolex, VW, Ferrari, and so many more will be trying to conquer the market.
It's just business.
[deleted]
That's what both the soviets and the americans where doing in the 70s there... didn't work back then either
You mean the Afghan conflict? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_conflict_(1978%E2%...
No, the Soviets invaded in 79. During the decades before, both the USA and the USSR were investing money in infrastructure and industry modernization projects in the country, trying to curry favor with the nation.
I quote from a humanitarian report[0]:
"""
Afghanistan‟s economy from the 1950s onward became closely intertwined with the Cold War. From 1953 to 1963 Afghanistan‟s Prime Minister Mohammed Daoud Khan had solicited military and economic assistance from both the United States (US) and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), believing that, without rapid growth, Afghanistan would become severely politically fragmented. Often dubbed the “economic Korea”, the country received 50% of its foreign aid from the Soviet Union between 1950 and 1970 and 30% from the United States during that same time span.3 In the early 1960s Soviet investment targeted immense infrastructure projects including the 1964 completion of the Salang tunnel which greatly reduced travel time between northern Afghanistan and Kabul. By 1967 the country had 1,200 miles of paved roads and a 25% increase in power output.
"""
[0] https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/AB...
I quote from a humanitarian report[0]:
"""
Afghanistan‟s economy from the 1950s onward became closely intertwined with the Cold War. From 1953 to 1963 Afghanistan‟s Prime Minister Mohammed Daoud Khan had solicited military and economic assistance from both the United States (US) and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), believing that, without rapid growth, Afghanistan would become severely politically fragmented. Often dubbed the “economic Korea”, the country received 50% of its foreign aid from the Soviet Union between 1950 and 1970 and 30% from the United States during that same time span.3 In the early 1960s Soviet investment targeted immense infrastructure projects including the 1964 completion of the Salang tunnel which greatly reduced travel time between northern Afghanistan and Kabul. By 1967 the country had 1,200 miles of paved roads and a 25% increase in power output.
"""
[0] https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/AB...
Better than getting bombed if you ask me.
That won't happen again if Chinese interests are now at stake.
Two can play the sabotage game. The downfall of western-backed Afghan government is mostly due to the backing of regional countries for Taleban. Now that the table has flip, you can be sure CIA will be doing the same. Not everyone that hates the western countries there are Taleban. Remember there is a saying that muslim tribalism hates among themselves more than anything else. Expect terrorism to spread into China now that they getting involve. The whole debacle could really be setting up for downfall of the middle kingdom. Good for USA not to touch that cursed land. Feel pity for the fools that blinded by that cursed mines.
There is this thing known as the resource curse, where countries rich in resources reap very little of it. I don't think the new rulers will be able to capitalize on this, and help from other countries will only make the wealth go to them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
I think this is the reason why people tripped over themselves to start relations with them, even the US and EU. Because other large powers might be really willing to help out. What would they have to lose? Their image?
Although I wonder why they weren't already exploiting the resources? Lacking investments due to security risks?
Although I wonder why they weren't already exploiting the resources? Lacking investments due to security risks?
China will be happy to help.
Sell the Opium to the West the minerals to East, problem solved.
If these riches are accessible, why haven't the US helped the national government exploit it during the last 20 years of occupation, or themselves? Seems like a bit of a sensationalized headline.
They're not very accessible, they're in Afghanistan.
They face the same problem the US occupation did in reverse: the country is inherently inaccessible. There are a few scattered bits of railway. There are a few long mountainous roads out. It is landlocked. It is uneconomic to ship raw minerals other than by rail or sea, since they have low value density. Step 1 would be "build a thousand miles of railway", especially if they're thinking of shipping to China.
(This is why the a mainexport was opium: very high value density makes it worth shipping over the passes. Same goes for gold mentioned in a sibling comment)
They face the same problem the US occupation did in reverse: the country is inherently inaccessible. There are a few scattered bits of railway. There are a few long mountainous roads out. It is landlocked. It is uneconomic to ship raw minerals other than by rail or sea, since they have low value density. Step 1 would be "build a thousand miles of railway", especially if they're thinking of shipping to China.
(This is why the a mainexport was opium: very high value density makes it worth shipping over the passes. Same goes for gold mentioned in a sibling comment)
This is the actual story.
The US has been de facto doing business with anyone, especially the Taliban, to get raw resources (in very dangerous and environmentally damaging ways) for use in some markets for many years.
I'm curious what happened to those arrangements and facilities. I think most of the people profiled in the OCCRP are stateside now (Emily Scott King is in beautiful Miami).
The US has been de facto doing business with anyone, especially the Taliban, to get raw resources (in very dangerous and environmentally damaging ways) for use in some markets for many years.
I'm curious what happened to those arrangements and facilities. I think most of the people profiled in the OCCRP are stateside now (Emily Scott King is in beautiful Miami).
Thanks for posting that, I'd been blissfully unaware of that murkiness.
On a side note, "artisanally mined" looks like a euphemism for "dug out of the dirt with spades and bare hands by the desperately poor serving brutal overlords", or something similar. Pretty much like the "artisan" child cobalt miners of Congo. See [1] Is my phone powered by child labour?
[1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2016/06/drc-coba...
On a side note, "artisanally mined" looks like a euphemism for "dug out of the dirt with spades and bare hands by the desperately poor serving brutal overlords", or something similar. Pretty much like the "artisan" child cobalt miners of Congo. See [1] Is my phone powered by child labour?
[1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2016/06/drc-coba...
Afghanistan's largest export in 2019 was gold with a total value of $968 million (43.2% of all exports), up from $7.35 million in 2014. https://oec.world/en/profile/country/afg
Interesting. It's up spectacularly even from 2018. It looks like the Taliban have had control over this: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/22/taliban-afghanistan-min...
Where is opium on that list? Isn't Afghanistan the world's #1 exporter of opium?
They weren't accessible because of the ongoing Taliban insurgency, which is now the sole existing government.
Wasn't the old joke that the US only invaded countries where there was oil ?
(i.e. in answer to your question, the US would have "helped" if it was oil that was in the ground)
(i.e. in answer to your question, the US would have "helped" if it was oil that was in the ground)
Oil is largely a red herring, in this case anyway.
Julian Assange in 2011: "The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war"
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1427929346262642688
US veteran that oversaw training of Afghan forces, 2021: "I would sit in on staff meetings, because part of my position there was with a Joint Command that was building the Afghan military and police force — the division that I worked with was about training and policy for the Afghan police. And that also included arming and funding them. I don’t think I could overstate that this was a system just basically designed for funneling money and wasting or losing equipment."
https://mtracey.substack.com/p/a-big-money-funneling-operati...
And now said equipment is confirmed lost or in the hands of the Taliban: "A U.S. defense official on Monday confirmed the Taliban’s sudden accumulation of U.S.-supplied Afghan equipment is enormous."
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-army-taliban-185017ba29...
Julian Assange in 2011: "The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war"
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1427929346262642688
US veteran that oversaw training of Afghan forces, 2021: "I would sit in on staff meetings, because part of my position there was with a Joint Command that was building the Afghan military and police force — the division that I worked with was about training and policy for the Afghan police. And that also included arming and funding them. I don’t think I could overstate that this was a system just basically designed for funneling money and wasting or losing equipment."
https://mtracey.substack.com/p/a-big-money-funneling-operati...
And now said equipment is confirmed lost or in the hands of the Taliban: "A U.S. defense official on Monday confirmed the Taliban’s sudden accumulation of U.S.-supplied Afghan equipment is enormous."
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-army-taliban-185017ba29...
Great post. One of the reason the 9/11 wars went so badly is because the concept of "war profiteering" had almost entirely disappeared from American politics by the 2000s. Or at least the political will to combat it was gone.
When there was a draft and people were invested in the outcome of the wars, politicians made their names by going after war profiteers.
When there was a draft and people were invested in the outcome of the wars, politicians made their names by going after war profiteers.
There's no real disagreement there unless your claiming that the "transnational security elite" have no interests in other commodities.
The history of the United Fruit Company, the CIA and the term "banana republic" are worth looking into if you're unfamiliar.
The history of the United Fruit Company, the CIA and the term "banana republic" are worth looking into if you're unfamiliar.
Sounds simplistic. Why did Biden withdraw troops? Is he not part of the transnational security elite?
The problem with these conspiracy theories of everything is that they actually never explain anything.
The reason the war was continued was not only and not primarily because a transnational security elite was washing money blah blah blah.
It was primarily because those voters who supported the war had hope for a better outcome. And their hope was greater than their reason.
Without hope, no manipulation would work.
The problem with these conspiracy theories of everything is that they actually never explain anything.
The reason the war was continued was not only and not primarily because a transnational security elite was washing money blah blah blah.
It was primarily because those voters who supported the war had hope for a better outcome. And their hope was greater than their reason.
Without hope, no manipulation would work.
with this in mind and playing along why did the US stop the endless war there?
One answer could be: it was Trump who started this and he wanted to stop the corruption, and the US is getting better. Another answer could be: it hasn't stopped, its just a lull before the US starts up endless war again.
I suspect that one can make any argument fit any reasons from any angle and there will be some truth in some of each of the ideas.
One answer could be: it was Trump who started this and he wanted to stop the corruption, and the US is getting better. Another answer could be: it hasn't stopped, its just a lull before the US starts up endless war again.
I suspect that one can make any argument fit any reasons from any angle and there will be some truth in some of each of the ideas.
That's what scares me; the pigs feeding at the trough of "endless war" aren't going to get less hungry, and they're not going to take kindly to the idea of missing a meal.
No matter how many stupid looks they show on TV and how much "complete surprise" they proclaim, there's people been making a living off this war for a while and they saw the writing on the wall.
Do we expect they've packed up and gone home to a quiet retirement? Or is the next chapter of "how much shit can we waste" already on railcars?
No matter how many stupid looks they show on TV and how much "complete surprise" they proclaim, there's people been making a living off this war for a while and they saw the writing on the wall.
Do we expect they've packed up and gone home to a quiet retirement? Or is the next chapter of "how much shit can we waste" already on railcars?
Or maybe there are multiple competing interests, and the interest who wants an endless war lost out to public pressure and loss of faith of 2 different presidents.
The war in Afghanistan was still fairly popular among the general public until very recently.
The war in Afghanistan was still fairly popular among the general public until very recently.
The US will be going back to war as soon as it can find a casus belli. The US Dept of defense is the largest single employer on the planet. Our arms industry is enormous. If there is no war the industry faces the threat of reduced employment and ultimately income.
Aside from that, here's a quote from Biden's speech about Afghanistan I find relevant.
"Today, the terrorist threat has metastasized well beyond Afghanistan: al Shabaab in Somalia, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al-Nusra in Syria, ISIS attempting to create a caliphate in Syria and Iraq and establishing affiliates in multiple countries in Africa and Asia. These threats warrant our attention and our resources."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
Aside from that, here's a quote from Biden's speech about Afghanistan I find relevant.
"Today, the terrorist threat has metastasized well beyond Afghanistan: al Shabaab in Somalia, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al-Nusra in Syria, ISIS attempting to create a caliphate in Syria and Iraq and establishing affiliates in multiple countries in Africa and Asia. These threats warrant our attention and our resources."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
I think Key & Peele covered the topic well in this one!
But We Have Oil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3jcmFNxRzQ
But We Have Oil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3jcmFNxRzQ
Key & Peele are great at bringing serious topics to the attention, but also just poking fun at typical characters we encounter in daily life.
Hopefully they keep their word about being more moderate than their previous time in power and if so, maybe the people of afghanistan could attain some well deserved peace and prosperity. I have my doubts that leaders of a battle hardened organization like theirs can be moderate instead of hardline/ultra conservative, but I truly hope they are.
I was quite impressed at their competence and moderation during the reconquest of Afghanistan. They managed to take the country swiftly, with minimal bloodshed/destruction and while keeping some existing structure/bureaucracy in place with a relatively smooth passation of power. The whole "siege" of Kaboul was a masterstroke, let the West and those that want to leave, leave in peace, don't do anything rash, secure the capital as the government/NATO troops retreat, ensure the peace and calm, don't impose your new measures all in a sudden, try to get back to "normal" as quickly as possible, ....
At this point, they have international legitimacy: the West gave them the country knowingly and unless the Taliban do something particularly stupid, they aren't coming back anytime soon, China and Russia look keen to deal with them, the former Afghan government yielded the power "gracefully". If internal strife is kept minimal, at this point they have a strong and stable platform to change things. Let's hope they use this newfound stability for the better of the whole population and have a Vietnam-like trajectory.
At this point, they have international legitimacy: the West gave them the country knowingly and unless the Taliban do something particularly stupid, they aren't coming back anytime soon, China and Russia look keen to deal with them, the former Afghan government yielded the power "gracefully". If internal strife is kept minimal, at this point they have a strong and stable platform to change things. Let's hope they use this newfound stability for the better of the whole population and have a Vietnam-like trajectory.
Given that they have already stated they'll protect women's rights "within the limits of Islam" - I wouldn't hold your breath. The "limits of Islam" was the excuse for the abhorrent treatment of women the first time they were in power.
Please don't blame Islam for this. There are oppressive fundamentalist Christian organizations that also want to actively keep women barefoot and pregnant.
The struggle for equality continues even in developed/Western countries where even relatively well-paid and famous women tend to make less than their male counterparts and have added their testimony to the #MeToo movement.
The struggle for equality continues even in developed/Western countries where even relatively well-paid and famous women tend to make less than their male counterparts and have added their testimony to the #MeToo movement.
> There are oppressive fundamentalist Christian organizations
I suspect that if they were in power, they would justify their actions as being ‘within the limits of Christianity’. I do not think tw04 was blaming Islam - the quotes indicate to me that this is how the Taliban sees it.
I suspect that if they were in power, they would justify their actions as being ‘within the limits of Christianity’. I do not think tw04 was blaming Islam - the quotes indicate to me that this is how the Taliban sees it.
I hope you are right. But this is a mostly Western forum. It's easily misconstrued as being the fault of Islam if you don't make a concerted effort to make that distinction crystal clear.
Thank you for pointing that out though.
Thank you for pointing that out though.
Their spokesperson basically said women would be allowed to go to school, work, hold office and similar but it definitely does not sound like complete freedom since they would need to wear the head scarfs (not burkas) . When pressed, his justification was Islam. I truly hope they will be at least that moderate and not do what they did the last time they were in power.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-58223530
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-58223530
Have you projected your hatred of Christianity to compare the Taliban to them?
Can you cite examples in good faith? How much power do these organizations have, and what is their support among the local populace?
Can you cite examples in good faith? How much power do these organizations have, and what is their support among the local populace?
I don't hate Christianity.
The Taliban is not Islam.
The Taliban is not Islam.
ok, within a local populace, what does the taliban version have on Afghanistan vs an extremist Christian group in a western country.
the reference was uncalled for.
the reference was uncalled for.
[deleted]
Those organizations don't have the widespread adoption that the extreme Islamists do...which is the Taliban and they now control a country of 38M people. What you are talking about is small cults in isolated pockets of society.
I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN and the only openly female member to have ever made the leaderboard -- twice under different handles. I was homeless for nearly six years and actively participated here for about 4.5 years of that. I remain dirt poor. I am currently flat broke (by which I mean I don't expect to eat today). No matter how neutrally, respectfully and unaccusingly I do it, whenever I talk about how my gender has interfered with my ability to establish an adequate income via HN where plenty of men manage to make scads of money, I get nothing but flak.
I don't have a lot of patience for people on HN being on their high horse about women's rights issues. This forum can't clean up its own messes, but boy can people here point fingers.
Color me unimpressed. And also uninterested in arguing it further because it never does me any good. It just aggravates the men who don't want to hear that sexism and misogyny are alive and well and most of them are actively part of the problem but want to think they are not. Aggravating the men who like to see themselves as "good guys" inevitably means I get treated worse, not better.
I don't have a lot of patience for people on HN being on their high horse about women's rights issues. This forum can't clean up its own messes, but boy can people here point fingers.
Color me unimpressed. And also uninterested in arguing it further because it never does me any good. It just aggravates the men who don't want to hear that sexism and misogyny are alive and well and most of them are actively part of the problem but want to think they are not. Aggravating the men who like to see themselves as "good guys" inevitably means I get treated worse, not better.
In no way was I saying that there is no sexism or misogyny going outside of Afghanistan, but trying to compare being held back in your career with being unable to leave your home without a male relative is making light of the plight that the women are now subject to under the Taliban.
I certainly can't speak for your own situation or whatever you have endured, but my response was to your "Don't blame Islam"...and that is exactly what the Taliban is using to control women in this aspect so your comment doesn't make any sense to me. Women had been making progress in Afghanistan for the last 20 years because of the progress of separating Islam from the law...were they 100% equals of men, obviously not...but hundreds of times better than what they are going to be now.
I certainly can't speak for your own situation or whatever you have endured, but my response was to your "Don't blame Islam"...and that is exactly what the Taliban is using to control women in this aspect so your comment doesn't make any sense to me. Women had been making progress in Afghanistan for the last 20 years because of the progress of separating Islam from the law...were they 100% equals of men, obviously not...but hundreds of times better than what they are going to be now.
but trying to compare being held back in your career with being unable to leave your home without a male relative
Maybe you didn't hear me. Let me say it again:
I was homeless for years while racking up karma here left and right. I hit the leaderboard the first time about a month after I got back into housing, mostly because I paid off my student loan not because my income went up a lot.
I remain dirt poor and I'm currently broke and don't expect to eat today.
This is a survival issue for me.
I'm not expecting charity and I don't need much more earned income. But I can't seem to arrange it, no matter what I do.
Maybe you didn't hear me. Let me say it again:
I was homeless for years while racking up karma here left and right. I hit the leaderboard the first time about a month after I got back into housing, mostly because I paid off my student loan not because my income went up a lot.
I remain dirt poor and I'm currently broke and don't expect to eat today.
This is a survival issue for me.
I'm not expecting charity and I don't need much more earned income. But I can't seem to arrange it, no matter what I do.
Sounds like your mind is made up and you seem to have a serious dislike for comments that you are skeptical of. You don't know me and I don't really care about what you think of my stand on women's rights based on a comment that said you shouldn't confuse the current Taliban situation with fundamental Christians or the #MeToo movement.
I could honestly care less about your current situation and how that somehow translates to my comments. I have done nothing to you so lashing out at me and using your situation as an excuse is ridiculous. I could care less if you are a brand new member or someone who hit the leaderboard...
I could honestly care less about your current situation and how that somehow translates to my comments. I have done nothing to you so lashing out at me and using your situation as an excuse is ridiculous. I could care less if you are a brand new member or someone who hit the leaderboard...
You're right: I shouldn't have attacked you. It's a violation of HN rules.
I've deleted that part of my comment.
I've deleted that part of my comment.
considering that women have rights is already quite a progress !!
Accessing resources requires a mature system of governance similar to Maslow's triangle. I don't think Afghanistan is at the step (yet) where it can import scientists, hire heavy duty machine operators, logistics, and labs to exploit that mineral wealth.
The Chinese, however, are ready to take on that challenge. They're in a different position. If the US decided to start mining in Afghanistan, it would only be seen as an exploiter (start a war, take from the people). The Chinese are viewed as a helper (help pick up from the ravages of war and build infrastructure). It's unfortunate but that's reality.
The Chinese, however, are ready to take on that challenge. They're in a different position. If the US decided to start mining in Afghanistan, it would only be seen as an exploiter (start a war, take from the people). The Chinese are viewed as a helper (help pick up from the ravages of war and build infrastructure). It's unfortunate but that's reality.
Of course they can, its not that hard. Why do you think China is playing nice with the Taliban.
A Chinese State Owned Company will come in with Chinese workers to run the mines for the Taliban. The top officials in the Taliban will receive annual royalty payments.
A Chinese State Owned Company will come in with Chinese workers to run the mines for the Taliban. The top officials in the Taliban will receive annual royalty payments.
China obtained copper mining concessions in Afghanistan more than a decade ago. In spite of the fact that USGS personnel went into the country with US troops early on to help update resource maps and gauge resource potential of the country, the Chinese were the first to step in and begin exploiting the huge potential of the country's resources.
Along the way, that good relationship with Kabul soured and it is not guaranteed that the Chinese will have any advantage with the Taliban-installed government once that government gets up to speed. I think the Taliban will be wary of dealing with them especially if they lean on or utilize the experience of those Afghanis who previously served in one of the western-backed administrations.
Here is a recent article about the status of that concession and complications encountered along the way:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/27/afghanistan-china-spy-r...
I think we will see a period of consolidation of control before we see much opened up to foreign operators who don't already have the blessings of the new leadership. They will operate from a position of minimal trust of outsiders unless the functionality that the foreign entity brings offers an opportunity for them to expand on their control. Just my opinion though.
Along the way, that good relationship with Kabul soured and it is not guaranteed that the Chinese will have any advantage with the Taliban-installed government once that government gets up to speed. I think the Taliban will be wary of dealing with them especially if they lean on or utilize the experience of those Afghanis who previously served in one of the western-backed administrations.
Here is a recent article about the status of that concession and complications encountered along the way:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/27/afghanistan-china-spy-r...
I think we will see a period of consolidation of control before we see much opened up to foreign operators who don't already have the blessings of the new leadership. They will operate from a position of minimal trust of outsiders unless the functionality that the foreign entity brings offers an opportunity for them to expand on their control. Just my opinion though.
This entirely. China is happy to go from nothing and not even functioning government to fully operational resource extraction. It is occurring in a variety of countries in the "belt and road" initiative. I'm sure they are plenty happy to grease the right wheels and make the appropriate official/unofficial payments where needed.
Didn't edit my reply soon enough :). I agree, the Chinese are doing exactly that.
President Biden didn't consult with other world leaders before acting on Afghanistan. This was an actual statement during a press briefing. A quick talk around the table would reveal what China's intentions would be (such as what we're doing here). This amounts to nothing but giving away Afghanistan to China by the Biden Administration. It would have been more appropriate to assist our allies to working with the Afghan government while the US still has some occupation.
The "resource curse" theory suggests that it's usually easier to bribe the leaders to let you ship in experts and ship out resources. You might get one very nice road that goes between the resources and the (air)port but the rest of the humans living there might as well be orangutans in a palm oil plantation. They're going to have a bad time and not see much of the wealth that gets extracted reinvested in their society as there's no real incentive to do so as you might if you needed to build the next silicon valley with courts and lawyers and universities and managers and experts etc.
The Chinese already get more use of the northeastern Badakshan province than the Afghan government. They send patrols across into Afghanistan regularly. They are not necessarily viewed as helpers though, but mainly as opportunistic neighbors who won't hesitate to blur lines of control or step over boundaries to expand their own control.
Afghanistan has been mining and exporting valuable minerals for several thousand years.
There's more mining technology available now, but it's perfectly feasible to do large-scale mining without it. It's just a question of how badly you want the rocks.
There's more mining technology available now, but it's perfectly feasible to do large-scale mining without it. It's just a question of how badly you want the rocks.
This is great news. The only chance Afghanistan has to actually become a stable democracy is to have a functioning economy with a better option than opium.
Of course, this is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Hopefully they are able to capture the value of these resources instead of seeing that value exported to a more developed country. I fear that with the present level of corruption, it’s more likely that some officials will get rich, and most of this value will be taken by someone else.
Of course, this is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Hopefully they are able to capture the value of these resources instead of seeing that value exported to a more developed country. I fear that with the present level of corruption, it’s more likely that some officials will get rich, and most of this value will be taken by someone else.
There is nothing great about a terrorist group being in control of a trillion dollars' worth of anything.
Let’s not forget that your terrorist group was once called freedom fighters by the US government.
The Taliban were not part of the groups that fought against the Soviet occupation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
Try clicking on the articles about any of the current or former leaders and see what they were up to in the 1980s.
Just because the organization called the Taliban was officially formed later does not mean that it’s not the same folks who fought the Soviets.
Just because the organization called the Taliban was officially formed later does not mean that it’s not the same folks who fought the Soviets.
Indeed, but there’s also the Afghan people there, and their conditions won’t improve without working economy.
One thing folks in the US constantly seem to forget when denouncing other systems is folks in these countries are measuring against alternatives. What was the quality of the alternative the US provided? Did it inspire loyalty?
Were the police we paid for helpful, or did they take our weapons and extort folks on the side of the road?
Did police commanders take our money and pay their men or loot it?
Was justice fair, or did the dollar win?
Are there any places in Afghanistan where huge displays of wealth spring up set against grinding poverty (this is not uncommon when a western power allows elites to loot).
Did Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo help us communicate our values effectively to the locals?
Now we are going to cut them off and try and starve them. Biden and team think that will work better - we'll see.
Were the police we paid for helpful, or did they take our weapons and extort folks on the side of the road?
Did police commanders take our money and pay their men or loot it?
Was justice fair, or did the dollar win?
Are there any places in Afghanistan where huge displays of wealth spring up set against grinding poverty (this is not uncommon when a western power allows elites to loot).
Did Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo help us communicate our values effectively to the locals?
Now we are going to cut them off and try and starve them. Biden and team think that will work better - we'll see.
Would it be better if Taliban would convert to a similar to petrocracy state?
I wonder if the Prophet supports a sovereign wealth fund.
I'm sure that, similarly to Bible, which can be used for any point of view, Quran can be interpreted carefully to support exactly this.
practically match made in heavens - Taliban was helping China in hunting down Uighurs hiding in in Afghanistan and that from 1 year ago:
https://www.rferl.org/a/exclusive-taliban-s-expanding-financ...
"The key to rising revenues has been profits from mining, growing from $35 million in 2016 to $464 million in 2020, according to one of the Taliban members interviewed, who added that China and the United Arab Emirates were the biggest buyers of the raw materials."
https://www.rferl.org/a/exclusive-taliban-s-expanding-financ...
"The key to rising revenues has been profits from mining, growing from $35 million in 2016 to $464 million in 2020, according to one of the Taliban members interviewed, who added that China and the United Arab Emirates were the biggest buyers of the raw materials."
Damn, how terrible it is that the afghani government, made of entirely afghani people, are going to exploit the wealth of the land they have historically lived on, instead of white saviors.
They need the supply chain, transportation, electrical, and financial systems necessary to exploit those resources, none of which Afghanistan has.