Show HN: On Making Music with the Machine(songxytr.substack.com)
songxytr.substack.com
Show HN: On Making Music with the Machine
https://songxytr.substack.com/p/on-making-music-with-the-machine
8 comments
Man pushes slot machine lever 5,000x and edits together best slot machine sounds to make song. Proceeds to beat chest about being a music maker.
+1 to Suno/genaudio being both fun, and evolving editing tools, but the mental justifications in the blog post are painful. I think you may find musicians bristle at your claim that all art is circular, because they are acutely aware of how sampling, copyright and ip ownership rights work, and legal risks of using recorded material as inputs doesn't fly for commercial music. If these were songs you wrote, youd own the copyright on them. The US legal system says no,you are not making music, its not copywritable due to some of the issues you highlighted in your post.
Further reading: https://help.suno.com/en/articles/2746945
+1 to Suno/genaudio being both fun, and evolving editing tools, but the mental justifications in the blog post are painful. I think you may find musicians bristle at your claim that all art is circular, because they are acutely aware of how sampling, copyright and ip ownership rights work, and legal risks of using recorded material as inputs doesn't fly for commercial music. If these were songs you wrote, youd own the copyright on them. The US legal system says no,you are not making music, its not copywritable due to some of the issues you highlighted in your post.
Further reading: https://help.suno.com/en/articles/2746945
>> Man pushes slot machine lever 5,000x and edits together best slot machine sounds to make song. Proceeds to beat chest about being a music maker.
While you may have meant that as a criticism, I don't think that is an inaccurate description of the process and do hope my post describes it as such. Yes sampling from the latent-space is an exercise in curating and harnessing randomness.
>> ...the mental justifications in the blog post are painful. I think you may find musicians bristle at your claim that all art is circular,
Yes I many/most do. This is not a method of "making music" that could have been contemplated 5 years ago (harnessing randomness = learning an instrument for 10+ years = wtf!!!??). But it exists today, and there are a lot of folks like me who are enabled by it. There will be some among us (not me!) who come along who are far more talented, and when this tech is shown to enable their talent, then I think the bristling will lessen.
>> [various issues about copyright]
I write my own lyrics from my meat-brain, so I may own the copyright to the words (maybe?). But I've chosen to release the words out into the world with no expectation of keeping that. And yes I understand I do not own the copyright to the songs/music/etc (I have read Suno's rights and recent Udio/UMG deals etc). In any case, I don't much care about that, nor am I looking to make $$$ off this. I wrote (words) for a long time... and can now put them to music. If there are any others of you out there who would like to do that, I would suggest you try these paths as well.
Just try not to push the button 1x... do it 5,000x! It's the effort and vision that keeps you from "slop" - and maybe you'll be the one who'll make it great fucking art!
While you may have meant that as a criticism, I don't think that is an inaccurate description of the process and do hope my post describes it as such. Yes sampling from the latent-space is an exercise in curating and harnessing randomness.
>> ...the mental justifications in the blog post are painful. I think you may find musicians bristle at your claim that all art is circular,
Yes I many/most do. This is not a method of "making music" that could have been contemplated 5 years ago (harnessing randomness = learning an instrument for 10+ years = wtf!!!??). But it exists today, and there are a lot of folks like me who are enabled by it. There will be some among us (not me!) who come along who are far more talented, and when this tech is shown to enable their talent, then I think the bristling will lessen.
>> [various issues about copyright]
I write my own lyrics from my meat-brain, so I may own the copyright to the words (maybe?). But I've chosen to release the words out into the world with no expectation of keeping that. And yes I understand I do not own the copyright to the songs/music/etc (I have read Suno's rights and recent Udio/UMG deals etc). In any case, I don't much care about that, nor am I looking to make $$$ off this. I wrote (words) for a long time... and can now put them to music. If there are any others of you out there who would like to do that, I would suggest you try these paths as well.
Just try not to push the button 1x... do it 5,000x! It's the effort and vision that keeps you from "slop" - and maybe you'll be the one who'll make it great fucking art!
I think it’s worth separating what feels like songwriting from what’s actually considered songwriting - legally. Curating randomness or generative tools can be a really cool way to explore ideas or turn poetry into something musical, and I totally get the appeal there!
That said, the “vibes on = songwriting” idea doesn’t quite line up with how authorship is defined. The earlier Suno support article spells it out pretty clearly:
You’re generally not considered the owner of the songs, since the output is generated by Suno.
In the U.S., copyright law requires meaningful human authorship. Music made entirely with AI doesn’t qualify, and writing a prompt alone isn’t considered composing the music or lyrics.
If you wrote the lyrics yourself, you do own those outright and can copyright them independently.
I know this is mostly for fun, but once tracks are distributed to Spotify or other DSPs, they start earning money, it does get into riskier territory.
-- All that said, I appreciate the encouragement to experiment with new tools. Check out my handle on Spotify/Youtube and you'll see why this is a big part of my life ;)
That said, the “vibes on = songwriting” idea doesn’t quite line up with how authorship is defined. The earlier Suno support article spells it out pretty clearly:
You’re generally not considered the owner of the songs, since the output is generated by Suno.
In the U.S., copyright law requires meaningful human authorship. Music made entirely with AI doesn’t qualify, and writing a prompt alone isn’t considered composing the music or lyrics.
If you wrote the lyrics yourself, you do own those outright and can copyright them independently.
I know this is mostly for fun, but once tracks are distributed to Spotify or other DSPs, they start earning money, it does get into riskier territory.
-- All that said, I appreciate the encouragement to experiment with new tools. Check out my handle on Spotify/Youtube and you'll see why this is a big part of my life ;)
Totally agree with you on the copyright aspect: that was not an area I touched upon in the post, so thank you very much for pointing it out, since other readers may certainly want to know. Yes I am on Spotify, but that's more because it seems like its the only viable way to even share my stuff with friends-and-family given how completely it's become the base mode of distribution! Certainly haven't seen a $ from it, nor will I ever.
In general, I actually thought the entirety of your comment was totally on point and I'm very glad you made it. Look I know I'm not "making music" in any sort of traditional manner and I know how it's perceived. But it is something I've been devoting more time to, and getting a lot of pleasure out of. Ultimately I want to pass the inside of my brain on to other humans, and feel like this is a process that might help me do that given the particular circumstances of my genetic lottery (that is, vs using my vocal chords to sing or my fingers to play a violin). But I know this whole endeavor sounds a bit fake/slop... still I'd rather not put up euphemistic descriptions of my "new band" on twitter/insta but rather call it what it is. After all "songxytr" is pronounced "songshitter."
And thanks for your handle... I had missed that. Given I was sitting in Goa *yesterday... EDM is very much the mood.
In general, I actually thought the entirety of your comment was totally on point and I'm very glad you made it. Look I know I'm not "making music" in any sort of traditional manner and I know how it's perceived. But it is something I've been devoting more time to, and getting a lot of pleasure out of. Ultimately I want to pass the inside of my brain on to other humans, and feel like this is a process that might help me do that given the particular circumstances of my genetic lottery (that is, vs using my vocal chords to sing or my fingers to play a violin). But I know this whole endeavor sounds a bit fake/slop... still I'd rather not put up euphemistic descriptions of my "new band" on twitter/insta but rather call it what it is. After all "songxytr" is pronounced "songshitter."
And thanks for your handle... I had missed that. Given I was sitting in Goa *yesterday... EDM is very much the mood.
>> After a point, I suppose it doesn’t really matter how you make something, what matters is what is made, and how that thing conveys the emotion and the essence.
Somewhat agree with the second half, but disagree with the first. How things are made totally matter... a realistic painting vs a photo, even of the same subject, etc.
Somewhat agree with the second half, but disagree with the first. How things are made totally matter... a realistic painting vs a photo, even of the same subject, etc.
"I was bored with my beard so I tugged it. It came off as I feared.” - what does that mean?? is this really music you're making?
>> is this really music you're making?
Well I do believe it is "music" but whether it's any "good" I guess idk! I do enjoy the process though and believe there would be others who would as well.
Album here: https://open.spotify.com/album/3e6k9eiGUlOBcoI2yd3DrM
Well I do believe it is "music" but whether it's any "good" I guess idk! I do enjoy the process though and believe there would be others who would as well.
Album here: https://open.spotify.com/album/3e6k9eiGUlOBcoI2yd3DrM
from sister comment, so don't downvote me!
>> After all "songxytr" is pronounced "songshitter."
I was about to post that ahem, you may want to reconsider what you've named your band / project / substack - but I guess that was... considered? ok then...
>> After all "songxytr" is pronounced "songshitter."
I was about to post that ahem, you may want to reconsider what you've named your band / project / substack - but I guess that was... considered? ok then...
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45388822