You missed the point about MS's release of .Net.Aimed to reach over and better Java style. MS sales even targetted co's using java for development offering $'s to switch to .Net. What was left out in their design was the sheer easiness to reconvert .net back to source code using off the web debuggers. My point being, ofcourse they would die. If you can't give ulitimate development tools, how can you expect them to stay ahead of teh pack.