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mickeymounds

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Show HN: We priced basic needs in work hours (global ranking and CSVs)

thepricer.org
22 points·by mickeymounds·il y a 9 mois·41 comments

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mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Totally fair—here are the data and components:

Basket (single renter, new lease): 1-BR market rent, basic utilities, staple groceries (~2.1–2.4k kcal/day), local monthly transit.

Formula: hours = monthly basket price ÷ typical net hourly pay.

Sources: Prices via World Bank ICP 2021 component parities (plus local operator fares for transit, tariffs for utilities, and rental medians/listings where available). Pay via OECD Taxing Wages (net) for OECD countries; ILOSTAT gross series as a clearly-flagged proxy elsewhere.

Data files (with country rows you can check):

Global table: https://www.thepricer.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/wtei_pu... OECD slice (net pay, full range): https://www.thepricer.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/wtei_oe... Extended (gross-basis, non-comparable): https://www.thepricer.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/wtei_ex...

I’ll add a small component breakdown table under the chart (rent/utilities/food/transit per country) so you can see exactly what influences the hours. If you have a better official rent/utilities series for a specific country, link it and I’ll rerun that row and note the change.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Turkey topping the “fewest hours” list doesn’t mean “everything is great”; it just means that for a single renter the price of a minimal basket divided by typical local net hourly pay is low in time terms. We’re measuring affordability in hours, not product quality.

Quality: Out of scope here. The basket is priced to minimal staples (rent, basic utilities, staple groceries, local transit). We’ll add a “quality bands” sensitivity so readers can see how hours move if you upgrade items.

Big-Mac Index: That’s a tradables proxy and food-only. Our hours include rent + utilities, which usually dominate time cost. Also, you used minimum wage; we use typical/median net hourly pay—minimum-wage calculations will overstate hours vs our method.

Your math note: €540 ÷ €12.82 ≈ 42 hours, but again, that’s food-only and gross wage, so it isn’t comparable to our basket or denominator.

Happy to post Turkey’s component line-items (rent/utilities/food/transit) and the sources in the article for auditability.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Author here. you’re right to flag Switzerland. Our metric is hours of pay for a single new-lease renter, not hours actually worked. But 190 h for Switzerland still looks too high given official anchors.

Quick back-of-envelope with public data:

Typical pay: Median gross ≈ CHF 6,788/mo (FSO). OECD shows the net take-home for an average single worker is ~82% of gross; using actual hours worked ~1,529/yr ⇒ ~CHF 44 net/hour.

Starter basket (monthly): national rent avg ≈ CHF 1,451 (all dwellings; new leases in Zurich can be ~1,7–2,1k), utilities ~CHF 220, basic groceries ~CHF 500–700, Zurich monthly pass CHF 89. That totals roughly CHF 2.3–2.9k.

Hours of pay needed = basket ÷ net hourly ≈ 50–70 h, not ~190 h. (E.g., CHF 2,600 ÷ CHF 44 ≈ 59 h.)

Using a flat 2,080 h/year to derive hourly pay (instead of actual ~1,529) depresses hourly pay and pushes hours up, which likely inflated our Switzerland row.

Mixing capital-city pricing with national wages can also bias upward.

We’ll correct the Switzerland entry and add a footnote showing the actual-hours denominator we used. Appreciate the nudge.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Author here. fair critique. We should have led with the basket and methods in plain text. Here they are:

What “basic needs” means in our chart (single adult, new lease):

Housing: market-rate 1-bedroom rent (current new-lease median, not legacy/regulated rents).

Utilities: basic electricity + heating/cooling + water/sewer/trash for a small 1-BR.

Food: ~2,100–2,400 kcal/day from low-cost local staples (grains/pasta, legumes, eggs, veg/fruit, oil, dairy/chicken) — no brand premiums.

Transport: one local monthly public-transit pass (or closest equivalent).

Everyday basics: SIM/phone plan and hygiene/cleaning essentials. Excluded: healthcare/tuition/childcare, cars, entertainment. Wages: net typical/median pay (after tax/mandatory contributions). Metric: hours needed = basket price ÷ net hourly pay. It’s a cash-flow affordability ratio for a solo renter, not a welfare/quality-of-life score.

On citations & data: Sources are standard (national stats/OECD/Eurostat + operator fares + rental medians from official or broad listing datasets). If you have a better official series for any country (especially rent), point me to it and I’ll rerun that row and note the change.

On the visuals/formatting: Point taken. I can collapse the UI to just the number + rank and move the methods into a single, clean appendix. Ads fund the data work, but I’ll provide an ad-light reader version for this piece.

If something still looks off for your country, share the wage/rent series you trust and I’ll check it.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
You’re right to sanity-check. Our number is hours of pay needed for a single renter on a new lease, not hours actually worked.

Using your own anchors: if essentials ≈ 70% of median net pay and an effective month is ~140 paid hours (vacation/holidays), then hours = 0.7 × 140 ≈ 98h — nowhere near 200h.

So why would our Nordic rows show >200h? Likely method artifacts:

Rent input: we used current market 1-BR rents (upper bound). Many people have in-place/regulated rents, own, or share, which slashes hours per person.

Hour divisor: some wage series forced monthly ÷ 160–168h instead of ~140 effective hours → inflates the ratio ~10–20%.

Geography mix: capital-city prices vs national wages can overstate costs.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Quick clarification (re Sweden/Nordics): The 200+ hours isn’t “hours you actually work”; it’s hours of pay needed for a single renter on a new lease to cover a minimal basket (1-BR rent, basic utilities, staple groceries, local transit). It’s a price ÷ (typical net hourly pay) ratio.

Why it can look high in Sweden/Finland:

New-lease market rent vs. your rent. Many Swedes have regulated/legacy rents or own; our basket uses current market 1-BR (costlier), so it’s an upper-bound for a solo entrant. Households commonly share or pool incomes, which cuts hours per person a lot.

Paid vacation/leave. If the wage source is hourly, paid leave is already priced in. If a dataset forced us to derive hourly from monthly pay ÷ 160–168h, that would overstate hours for Sweden’s effective ~140h months. That alone trims the ratio ~15%.

Not a welfare map. It ignores public services/quality; it’s a cash-flow affordability snapshot for a specific living setup, not “where life is good.”
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
TL;DR: The chart is a single-adult, renter affordability ratio (price ÷ typical net wage). It’s not saying “people actually work 11h/day”; it’s saying “if you tried to cover a solo renter basket out of one typical paycheck, you’d need ~X paid hours.” Households adapt (roommates, family pooling, informal housing, employer perks), which lowers real-world hours.

Why the >220h outliers were excluded from the press note: We used a trimmed summary to avoid letting a handful of fragile cases (thin/biased price data, capital-city rent proxies, wage series with poor coverage, currency quirks) dominate the headline. In the full write-up, I’ll show the entire distribution, the eight omitted cases, and winsorized vs. raw comparisons so readers can audit the effect.

Where confounding can creep in (you called several):

Informal economy: Formal price series + formal wages can overstate hours where many transact or earn informally.

Housing formality: If rent stats miss informal dwellings, the “solo renter” basket skews too expensive vs. typical living arrangements.

Basket design: Ours is a minimal, non-tradable basket (modest 1-BR rent, basic utilities, ~2,100–2,400 kcal groceries, local transit). No cars, no tuition, no luxury goods. I’ll add a shared-housing variant and a city vs. national sensitivity.

Household composition: The metric is per worker, not per household. A 3-adult household sharing one rent bill will show fewer hours per person than a single renter.

Net pay & transfers: We use net/typical pay (after taxes, including standard cash benefits where the source does). Publicly funded services (health care, schooling) are intentionally excluded from the out-of-pocket basket—this is a cash-flow lens, not a full welfare measure.

Mexico/“11 hours a day” example: That interpretation mixes hours of pay needed with hours actually worked. If the basket costs more than one typical monthly take-home, the ratio can exceed ~173–184 hours/month—even though people don’t work 11h/day; they share housing, live outside the cost center, buy informally, or pool incomes.

What I’ll add to make this clearer (and falsifiable):

A methods box with the exact basket, wage series, and the full, untrimmed table (including the eight outliers).

Two companion views: Shared-housing hours and Discretionary hours = paid hours – hours to essentials.

A city edition (e.g., SF/NYC/Lagos vs. national) so price-level heterogeneity isn’t hidden.

Happy to be corrected—if you have a better wage or rent series for any of the questionable cases, point me to it and I’ll rerun that row and show the delta.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Here’s a quick SF cut (single renter, bare-bones basket):

Basket (monthly):

1-BR rent ≈ $3,515 (citywide avg)

Utilities (basic) ≈ $233

Groceries (minimum for one) ≈ $585

Transit pass (Muni) $86 — or $104 with BART-within-SF

Total: ≈ $4,350–$4,420/mo.

Hours to cover basics (price ÷ wage):

Using BLS mean gross pay ($48.15/hr for SF-Oakland MSA): ~90–92 hours. Net would be higher. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Using a net pay anchor (Numbeo avg take-home ≈ $7,057/mo ⇒ ~$40.7/hr): ~106–109 hours.

If you rent outside the center (~$2,712), the basket drops to ~$3,616 ⇒ ~75–92 hours (gross vs net). Numbeo

Want to spin a US cities edition? We can replicate this with a fixed basket (1-BR rent, basic utilities, minimum groceries, local monthly transit) and city-level wage anchors (BLS + net adjustments). Start with SF, NYC, LA, Seattle, Austin, Miami, Chicago, Boston, DC, Denver, and expand.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Not “9.5h worked each day.” It’s hours of pay needed in a month for a single renter to cover a bare-bones basket. Quick anchor with public data: Tel Aviv non-rent essentials ≈ ₪4,470 + studio/1-bed rent ≈ ₪5,000–6,300 ⇒ ≈ ₪9,500–10,700/month. If take-home pay is ~₪45–55/hour, that’s ~175–235 hours of pay. Many Israelis don’t live alone in TA (roommates/partner/subsidies/outside TA), so their effective hours are lower. The chart standardizes a tough single-renter scenario to compare places; it’s not saying people literally work 9.5h/day.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
Scope note: This index is a floor affordability ratio for non-tradables (rent, utilities, basic food, transit). It doesn’t rate product quality or luxury/tradable goods.

Quality: True—quality varies. We use a fixed, minimal basket to avoid hedonic debates; I can add sensitivity bands by quality/spec.

“What extra hours buy”: Good point. We’ll add Discretionary Hours = paid hours/month − hours to essentials to show room for non-essentials, saving, leisure.

iPhone / tradables: Different lens. Many tradables price similarly across countries; essentials are mostly local/non-tradable and drive this metric. We can add a companion “tradables-hours” (e.g., hours to buy an iPhone/streaming bundle).

Takeaway: Essentials-hours ≠ welfare. It’s one clean piece—time to cover basics—best paired with discretionary and tradables views.
mickeymounds
·il y a 9 mois·discuss
We measured the work hours/month a typical worker needs to cover a fixed basket (rent, utilities, groceries, transport, essentials). Highlights: U.S. 140.0h (11th of the first 42); winners include Bolivia 80h, Romania 84h. We also list OECD extremes (e.g., Mexico 323.2h, Israel 288.8h) outside the main chart to keep it legible. Method: ICP 2021 price levels + OECD net pay. CSVs linked. Feedback on methods welcome.