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testoo

28 karmajoined il y a 14 ans

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testoo
·il y a 4 jours·discuss
actually it looks like he wrote several stories on this theme: https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/up.aspx

what did H.P. know that we did not??
testoo
·il y a 4 jours·discuss
anyone else immediately reminded of this lovecraft tale? https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/nc.aspx
testoo
·il y a 2 ans·discuss
this is really interesting, I'd love to read more if you have the link/links!
testoo
·il y a 2 ans·discuss
oh no! another fun great math article, plummetting down the HN New stack into obscurity!

[lonely upvote]
testoo
·il y a 2 ans·discuss
update:

sorry kshacker, I may have thrown you off the scent here. My explanation of the slingshot effect is right, but it doesn't look like slingshotting is what the spacecraft is using to increase its speed:

the original article doesn't actually mention this at all, but it links to another one which tries (so vaguely it's misleading IMO) to explain the maneuver: https://mashable.com/article/nasa-parker-solar-probe-speed

tl;dr: the spacecraft is just falling into the Sun, which is why it speeds up. It isn't gaining speed relative to anything else, and it loses that speed again once it flies away from the Sun. It is using Venus to get closer to the sun each time around by damping its angular momentum, which works but I don't know how to explain that in an ELI5 way.

so it's actually a little anticlimactic.

BlarfMcFlarf and pfdietz got this right below in their comment thread:

"What the Venus flybys did was not add energy so much as remove angular momentum. The hard part about getting close to the Sun is that conservation of angular momentum prevents it."

...and icehawk and vl correctly point out that you can't really use the Sun to increase your within-solar-system speed. Thanks to them for prompting me to look into this further. The cool slingshot maneuvers all involve planets, not the sun.

...but I think the key answer that none of us quite articulated to your question:

How is the spacecraft using the slingshot effect to increase its speed each time around?

...is that it isn't!

...the article dramatically describes it as "picking up speed" each time it goes around the sun, but that is misleading. It is just getting closer to the sun every time around, so of course it goes faster the closer it gets.

the cool part if any is how it uses Venus to get closer to the sun (by sapping angular momentum), but that's hard to explain in a nutshell and doesn't really relate to your energy question.

so that is hopefully now a better answer to this mystery that brings together what some of the other commenters have pointed out.
testoo
·il y a 2 ans·discuss
hey icehawk -- so you can use any celestial object in the solar system to maneuver; all you're doing is basically changing your direction. But you're right, there's something strange going on here. The original article doesn't actually have any information about what this spacecraft is doing, but it links to another one about the speed. I'm looking at that now, gonna add an addendum (or edit the old comment if i can figure out how to do that)
testoo
·il y a 2 ans·discuss
i was wondering too! Do you think it might be because of citing family as a source? I barely ever post here, so don't have a good muscle memory for norms and best practices.

(also both scared and curious of what might result from dropping below 0 karma)
testoo
·il y a 2 ans·discuss
there's another cool aspect to your question too!

"Who gained and lost [energy] and how?"

>there actually is no objective answer as to which body gained and which lost energy! Energy is always conserved, but which way the transfer happened depends on your reference frame!

this isn't too difficult to demonstrate: pick an inertial reference frame A such that the spacecraft is at rest following the "collision" (aka the slingshot). In this frame, the spacecraft has 0 kinetic energy post-slingshot; therefore, it lost energy in the slingshot, which was transferred to the Sun. Likewise, pick a frame B such that the Sun is at rest after the slingshot (this would be the more usual frame to pick). In this case, it's the Sun that lost energy, and the spacecraft that gained it.

(depending on one's mechanics background this might appear anything from obvious to very weird and unintuitive)
testoo
·il y a 2 ans·discuss
hi kshacker! This is my understanding:

That's correct, the energy comes from the body the spacecraft is slingshotting around (the Sun in this case). It's not mass or gravitational energy or anything weird like that, it's actually just a momentum transfer, the same as if the two objects had collided and bounced off each other elastically (i.e. without loss of energy to heat). So a (miniscule amount) of momentum (velocity x mass) is being transferred from the Sun to the spacecraft, and that's where the energy comes from.

(source: I studied physics and had a grandparent at NASA who worked on Voyager II and talked about this issue with me; but it's been a while since both of those things, so anyone with more fresh experience feel free to chime in!)