What terrible treatment have you seen in the workplace?
Without calling out the identity of any companies or coworkers, I'm curious what bad treatment other engineers have seen in the workplace
81 comments
When i graduated, my manager would often come over to me on a Thursday and say he needed my work done my Monday. Which inevitably meant i would be in the office over the weekend. This happened for 6 weeks straight. That's right, every single day i worked, there were no weekends for naive old me.
On the beginning of the 7th week, i had a twitch in my eye and i could smell death. I broke and handed in my notice, my ceo refused, then accepted after he spoke to the manager. The manager had a word with me, and told me that they were going to fire me anyways. What a nice guy.
On the beginning of the 7th week, i had a twitch in my eye and i could smell death. I broke and handed in my notice, my ceo refused, then accepted after he spoke to the manager. The manager had a word with me, and told me that they were going to fire me anyways. What a nice guy.
My account here is anonymous.
I've seen bosses gang up on a 50 year old employee, seemingly to get rid of him. Where I live it's very hard to fire someone unless you give them three written warnings.
This senior 3rd line tech was well on his way with two before he found a better job and quit himself.
Both warnings were completely unfounded, but I only remember the details of one. The last one was due to consultants in another office, in another city, registering an internal certificate on a personal e-mail address. So it wasn't renewed and cost the client some revenue in downtime. Since my senior tech was responsible for operations of the environment he got blamed and got a written warning.
Now that I think back, the first warning might have been about when he replaced disks in a failed disk array and the array crashed as a result of the replacement.
Either way, me and several other younger techs got the impression that they were trying to get rid of old blood and get new blood in. We work for a very large telco concern where employee numbers are regulated from the top. So you can't hire anyone new unless someone old quits. Or unless the mother company approves expansion.
Edit: For some perspective, younger techs have made bigger mistakes and gotten off with verbal warnings.
I've seen bosses gang up on a 50 year old employee, seemingly to get rid of him. Where I live it's very hard to fire someone unless you give them three written warnings.
This senior 3rd line tech was well on his way with two before he found a better job and quit himself.
Both warnings were completely unfounded, but I only remember the details of one. The last one was due to consultants in another office, in another city, registering an internal certificate on a personal e-mail address. So it wasn't renewed and cost the client some revenue in downtime. Since my senior tech was responsible for operations of the environment he got blamed and got a written warning.
Now that I think back, the first warning might have been about when he replaced disks in a failed disk array and the array crashed as a result of the replacement.
Either way, me and several other younger techs got the impression that they were trying to get rid of old blood and get new blood in. We work for a very large telco concern where employee numbers are regulated from the top. So you can't hire anyone new unless someone old quits. Or unless the mother company approves expansion.
Edit: For some perspective, younger techs have made bigger mistakes and gotten off with verbal warnings.
Sounds like a classic "manage out" process. Staff with long service are more expensive make redundant. The managers concerned will have engaged HR who will have advised on how to build the documentation trail to make an eventual dismissal legally watertight.
I had a job in which the management had no idea how reliable software gets developed, and their MO was to hire the cheapest people possible (H-1Bs, back when you couldn't transfer) and work them to death. Not being on a visa myself I should have quit after a week, but I was young and naive. They were perennially going to go public "in six months or so". Every Friday my boss would walk through the cube farm and we had the same discussion:
Boss: "We're not meeting our schedule, so the team decided we need to come in tomorrow for a half day.
Me: "The... team?"
Boss: "Don't worry, I'll throw in lunch."
Me: "I really need a day off. I had to buy underwear yesterday because I haven't had time to do laundry."
Boss: "It's just until we get version 1.3.7 out. After that we'll all have a chance to catch our breath."
So we'd come in on Saturday, and of course after a half day nothing was working, so he'd extend, and then ask everyone to come in Sunday "so we can catch up and not have to do this any more."
It got so bad people started taking Fridays off under the theory that a single day of vacation plus some mumbling about being out of town was good for three days off, and you could always tell when someone got his green card, because that would be his last day.
This is the company that sent a team to a customer site "for a few weeks", and that team was still there working around the clock months later. So the wives of the employees in question got together and somehow found them new jobs. The entire team quit on the same day and flew home, leaving the company scrambling to explain (by which I mean "lying their asses off") what was going on and trying to pull people in from related projects to salvage that install.
Boss: "We're not meeting our schedule, so the team decided we need to come in tomorrow for a half day.
Me: "The... team?"
Boss: "Don't worry, I'll throw in lunch."
Me: "I really need a day off. I had to buy underwear yesterday because I haven't had time to do laundry."
Boss: "It's just until we get version 1.3.7 out. After that we'll all have a chance to catch our breath."
So we'd come in on Saturday, and of course after a half day nothing was working, so he'd extend, and then ask everyone to come in Sunday "so we can catch up and not have to do this any more."
It got so bad people started taking Fridays off under the theory that a single day of vacation plus some mumbling about being out of town was good for three days off, and you could always tell when someone got his green card, because that would be his last day.
This is the company that sent a team to a customer site "for a few weeks", and that team was still there working around the clock months later. So the wives of the employees in question got together and somehow found them new jobs. The entire team quit on the same day and flew home, leaving the company scrambling to explain (by which I mean "lying their asses off") what was going on and trying to pull people in from related projects to salvage that install.
> They were perennially going to go public "in six months or so".
Heh... I once worked somewhere that they promised to get us healthcare in 6 months, every 6 months. Their refrain was, "soon we will be the Google of Healthcare!" (I quit 2 years ago, they still don't offer health insurance, but according to my poor schmuck friends who still work there they still claim it is just around the corner).
This company also had friends of the owners come in and fake sit at the desks and pretend they were working when potential clients would walk through so it looked like we were full staffed at 50 people when in reality there were only 20 of us.
Heh... I once worked somewhere that they promised to get us healthcare in 6 months, every 6 months. Their refrain was, "soon we will be the Google of Healthcare!" (I quit 2 years ago, they still don't offer health insurance, but according to my poor schmuck friends who still work there they still claim it is just around the corner).
This company also had friends of the owners come in and fake sit at the desks and pretend they were working when potential clients would walk through so it looked like we were full staffed at 50 people when in reality there were only 20 of us.
Is it even legal?
Sure. As an "exempt" employee, the assumption is your option to leave and find another job is your protection against mistreatment. Of course there are some specific things that the company can't do, but demanding longer hours isn't one of them.
Amazon Lab126
I am using a throwaway account and withholding some tech info as this may uniquely identify people involved.
I joined a high-profile machine learning research team within Amazon. On my first day, I knew something was off immediately -- the manager literally gave me a laundry list of micro-tasks to do with an exceptionally strict timeline. Of course, the list was unrealistically ambitious to make him look good. This is a research team -- most research attempts simply aren't successful at first tries. But he wanted to push with his "perfect" schedule. I frequently stayed after midnight to meet the schedule. When this schedule wasn't met, I was publicly humiliated in front of other team members.
He loved to micro-manage, and he insisted on literally sitting behind me for hours to see each word I am typing into the terminal. I worked at several companies before this, but this level of micromanagement was not something I had seen before. This certainly was not a pair programming session (which I normally enjoy actually), as he was not actively contributing to the problem at hand. It was just...watching me work for hours in a small room.
One time, a friendly team member saw the difficulties and kindly offered to give some technical tips. This manager came to us and started to raise his voice how ignorant people should shut up [his words]. This was in the middle of large office. I got dragged into a small room after that, and I was verbally abused for an hour because he thought I made him look bad (technically incompetent) by talking another team member for technical tips. He was so upset that he was red and almost crying.
After surviving this environment for a while, I decided to leave. I told the manager and the senior manager politely that it was not a good fit. Of course, they can't just let me leave voluntarily -- they have to "fire" me or reject me otherwise so that it would be them finding a fault in me, not me in them.
The sad thing is, as I was told, how this is normal at Amazon.
I am using a throwaway account and withholding some tech info as this may uniquely identify people involved.
I joined a high-profile machine learning research team within Amazon. On my first day, I knew something was off immediately -- the manager literally gave me a laundry list of micro-tasks to do with an exceptionally strict timeline. Of course, the list was unrealistically ambitious to make him look good. This is a research team -- most research attempts simply aren't successful at first tries. But he wanted to push with his "perfect" schedule. I frequently stayed after midnight to meet the schedule. When this schedule wasn't met, I was publicly humiliated in front of other team members.
He loved to micro-manage, and he insisted on literally sitting behind me for hours to see each word I am typing into the terminal. I worked at several companies before this, but this level of micromanagement was not something I had seen before. This certainly was not a pair programming session (which I normally enjoy actually), as he was not actively contributing to the problem at hand. It was just...watching me work for hours in a small room.
One time, a friendly team member saw the difficulties and kindly offered to give some technical tips. This manager came to us and started to raise his voice how ignorant people should shut up [his words]. This was in the middle of large office. I got dragged into a small room after that, and I was verbally abused for an hour because he thought I made him look bad (technically incompetent) by talking another team member for technical tips. He was so upset that he was red and almost crying.
After surviving this environment for a while, I decided to leave. I told the manager and the senior manager politely that it was not a good fit. Of course, they can't just let me leave voluntarily -- they have to "fire" me or reject me otherwise so that it would be them finding a fault in me, not me in them.
The sad thing is, as I was told, how this is normal at Amazon.
Readers, enjoy the FACE of Amazon https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/
I am experiencing this now at Capital One. Routinely berated, intimidated into better performance, arbitrary judgements, a lot of belittling(e.g. you're no rocket scientist), and threats (eg you are screwing your reviews, I will hold you liable, etc.).
Yeah, not too surprising Capital One has a poor internal culture, they do a ton of creative accounting, to the point that they were able to outmanuver American Express on the Costco relationship.
That being said, I really hate my Costco Cap One card, anything over $300 gets flagged & SMS approval doesn't ever work (despite getting a confirmation back saying it will go thru).
I've heard some pretty bad stories from the people over at EMC, they share a joint office here in Seattle with Capital One.
That being said, I really hate my Costco Cap One card, anything over $300 gets flagged & SMS approval doesn't ever work (despite getting a confirmation back saying it will go thru).
I've heard some pretty bad stories from the people over at EMC, they share a joint office here in Seattle with Capital One.
As someone currently considering a really tempting offer with them, this sounds rather alarming. Could you please elaborate?
Sure. Basically started off there working with analysis teams. You will be working with some very old school managers who follow a strict hierarchy. Things may seem golden for a couple months, but then the threats and intimidation go into full gear. I was told that I would be held liable for failures even though my manager was making the decisions which were resulting in failures. I was told multiple times that if a project was not done, I would be in big trouble.
If I spoke up about a new technology or method, I was told sarcastically that "oh you're so smart". I have been told that the work I am doing isn't rocket science.
Micromanagement has been the norm lots of digging into the details of the project by managers who don't even know the difference between Java and Javascript.
Nothing is in writing so managers frequently will bring up issues about things not getting done or taking a different direction. The politics are rotten.
If I spoke up about a new technology or method, I was told sarcastically that "oh you're so smart". I have been told that the work I am doing isn't rocket science.
Micromanagement has been the norm lots of digging into the details of the project by managers who don't even know the difference between Java and Javascript.
Nothing is in writing so managers frequently will bring up issues about things not getting done or taking a different direction. The politics are rotten.
Thanks for sharing your story! I'll try and talk to the hiring team to look for indicators of such team politics.
The CEO/founder was into "The Game" and the Red Pill and he made all the male engineers go out in SOMA to try seduction techniques, as well as go to strip clubs. Our married and ltr engineers hated it but still had to show up and participate in this nonsense in order to fall in line and stay a "culture fit."
As you can guess, we routinely lost admins and female engineers who were generally solely hired on attractiveness and not talent, knowledge or skill.
As you can guess, we routinely lost admins and female engineers who were generally solely hired on attractiveness and not talent, knowledge or skill.
even as a single male I'd find being told to go to strip clubs by my CEO highly unprofessional and not want to work like that. That sounds ridiculous.
I dunno. It depends on the work environment. If it's one of those "we're all basically peers but one guy happens to be the manager" type of teams then I don't see it as being that outrageous.
Being told you have to go to a Strip Club, and that sort of environment is something that makes you uncomfortable (male or female), then that is sexual harassment.
Defending it just because most of you are 'mates' in/out of the workplace is not acceptable.
Defending it just because most of you are 'mates' in/out of the workplace is not acceptable.
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It's tough. I used to have to go to strip clubs with managers and customers. Required attendance. It gets weird after a few trips.
That's outrageously unprofessional. Is the company still alive?
Yep. They've churned most of the staff except for the CEO's college bros, but they're still going along... no outrageous IPO on the horizon but they haven't spent all the VC $$ yet.
Pretty sure a good chunk of companies are created just to burn through the VC cash while living it up a lavish lifestyle on the west coast.
At least that's my perception as an outsider from another part of the country.
At least that's my perception as an outsider from another part of the country.
[deleted]
I'm sorry, what is SOMA?
It's an area of SF where a lot of tech companies are located. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_of_Market,_San_Francisco
Thanks! Didn't find that by Googling
South of Market, a district in San Francisco with a lot of clubs/nightlife.
I worked at a place where the CEO/founder would openly talk about 'young guys' as a hiring practice to enable him to pay as low as possible.
This same place also expressed a significant preference for hiring H1B workers because 'they get locked in for 5+ years while waiting for their residency'.
This same place also expressed a significant preference for hiring H1B workers because 'they get locked in for 5+ years while waiting for their residency'.
Unfortunately i have heard the same thing from CEO recently.
Hiring you people or people that are married with children so he can pay less and they wont leave as easily.
It was very disappointing when i heard that.
Hiring you people or people that are married with children so he can pay less and they wont leave as easily.
It was very disappointing when i heard that.
Its a common strategy, hence why women of childbearing age, people who are 40+ and anyone with any kind of visible handicap or difference are so commonly discriminated against. They'd rather a handcuffed worker than one who has free will to leave, or get pregnant, etc.
Really sickening to see though.
Really sickening to see though.
At one place I worked, programmers weren't allowed to print anything and creative accounting was used to calculate our wages, something I didn't realise until I left as there were no payslips. One time, the CEO came storming into the programming room, extremely upset that someone had called the company and asked to leave a message for a programmer. "At my next company" he yelled, "there will be no phone system!" Another time, he waltzed into the room and proudly announced that he had taken a whole year to pay a bill.
Ah, good old American "look at how many unethical and morally questionable things I can get away with" Republicans. Market economy!
I've seen plenty of that in the UK - what I never understood was the reason for bragging about being unethical and/or immoral - what does it achieve? Is it a recognition signal between sociopaths?
I remember a similar HN discussion, months ago. Someone posed the question - given there's evidence that people do better work when they're treated well, why don't more places go out of their way to look after their workers? It seems to be a no-brainer.
There was one response that I wish I'd bookmarked. They basically said that there is a sociopathic kind of leader who actually derives much of their feeling of success from being "above" their workers.
That one comment really changed my view on the subject. One tends to assume that leaders are rational and will optimise for the success of the company. I've started to think my old assumptions weren't true, there's actually a type of person that derives their self-worth from being "alpha" and will even act against the interests of their company in the pursuit of this feeling.
So I think perhaps these people don't even realise how bad it sounds when they're bragging about unethical behaviour. To them it's part and parcel of being "successful".
It's utterly alien to me, but viewing the actions of managers through this new lens has helped to make sense of some of the apparently irrational decisions I've seen in the past.
There was one response that I wish I'd bookmarked. They basically said that there is a sociopathic kind of leader who actually derives much of their feeling of success from being "above" their workers.
That one comment really changed my view on the subject. One tends to assume that leaders are rational and will optimise for the success of the company. I've started to think my old assumptions weren't true, there's actually a type of person that derives their self-worth from being "alpha" and will even act against the interests of their company in the pursuit of this feeling.
So I think perhaps these people don't even realise how bad it sounds when they're bragging about unethical behaviour. To them it's part and parcel of being "successful".
It's utterly alien to me, but viewing the actions of managers through this new lens has helped to make sense of some of the apparently irrational decisions I've seen in the past.
"They basically said that there is a sociopathic kind of leader who actually derives much of their feeling of success from being "above" their workers.
...there's actually a type of person that derives their self-worth from being "alpha" and will even act against the interests of their company in the pursuit of this feeling."
I was a senior BA (contract) on a govt project for about $22 million (not a big deal in the scheme of things). The tech lead, looking back, was the classic narcissist (CN) and probably on the sociopathic scale - incompetent, bullying when questioned, believed his crap and had got away with it for years. One unfortunate day I deigned to question this guy's pronouncement of take all the low hanging fruit from the design and do them first. There was no thought of future impact to infrastructure or scale. And disappointingly, the PM, BA, Dev & Test teams didn't stand up to him - only bitched behind his back.
Cut a long story short, from then on he ghosted me in meetings and after spitting my coffee (in what I discovered was my last meeting) at more of his bs, I was told on the Friday I had 'negative feedback' and had to work my two weeks notice and finish up. I asked his pet PM how that worked as they obviously had no confidence and crickets followed - I never returned.
The project failed and made a couple of paragraphs in the papers, I was interviewed by the minister's team months down the track, explained why the project failed and watched the carpet get lifted up and $22 million of tax payers cash get swept under it.
CN is still there as it's next to impossible to fire govt employees in this country, but apparently he has little or no responsibility now. Small mercies for the tax payer I guess.
I have many other stories from two decades in this game, but this is the most recent and the first where I didn't finish my contracted time.
...there's actually a type of person that derives their self-worth from being "alpha" and will even act against the interests of their company in the pursuit of this feeling."
I was a senior BA (contract) on a govt project for about $22 million (not a big deal in the scheme of things). The tech lead, looking back, was the classic narcissist (CN) and probably on the sociopathic scale - incompetent, bullying when questioned, believed his crap and had got away with it for years. One unfortunate day I deigned to question this guy's pronouncement of take all the low hanging fruit from the design and do them first. There was no thought of future impact to infrastructure or scale. And disappointingly, the PM, BA, Dev & Test teams didn't stand up to him - only bitched behind his back.
Cut a long story short, from then on he ghosted me in meetings and after spitting my coffee (in what I discovered was my last meeting) at more of his bs, I was told on the Friday I had 'negative feedback' and had to work my two weeks notice and finish up. I asked his pet PM how that worked as they obviously had no confidence and crickets followed - I never returned.
The project failed and made a couple of paragraphs in the papers, I was interviewed by the minister's team months down the track, explained why the project failed and watched the carpet get lifted up and $22 million of tax payers cash get swept under it.
CN is still there as it's next to impossible to fire govt employees in this country, but apparently he has little or no responsibility now. Small mercies for the tax payer I guess.
I have many other stories from two decades in this game, but this is the most recent and the first where I didn't finish my contracted time.
"leaders are rational and will optimise for the success of the company"
More like leaders are rational and will optimise for their own personal success which may or may not involve optimising for the success of the company. Of course we all do this to a certain extent just that, from what I've seen, senior leadership types of large companies tend to be much more obviously dedicated to personal success at all costs.
A while back I worked at a multinational and, being fairly senior, was directly exposed to the whims of the executive class - which frequently seemed rather odd (to say the least). When a colleague explained how bonus compensation was linked to their decision making things became much clearer!
More like leaders are rational and will optimise for their own personal success which may or may not involve optimising for the success of the company. Of course we all do this to a certain extent just that, from what I've seen, senior leadership types of large companies tend to be much more obviously dedicated to personal success at all costs.
A while back I worked at a multinational and, being fairly senior, was directly exposed to the whims of the executive class - which frequently seemed rather odd (to say the least). When a colleague explained how bonus compensation was linked to their decision making things became much clearer!
> I remember a similar HN discussion, months ago. Someone posed the question - given there's evidence that people do better work when they're treated well, why don't more places go out of their way to look after their workers? It seems to be a no-brainer.
I tend towards the evolutionary explanation. In primitive times, when people lived in small bands it was beneficial if everyone helped each other to make the group strong to survive. Perhaps some men found it more beneficial for them to humiliate all their male peers so that they would become the alphas of the groups and the females would mate with them instead...
I tend towards the evolutionary explanation. In primitive times, when people lived in small bands it was beneficial if everyone helped each other to make the group strong to survive. Perhaps some men found it more beneficial for them to humiliate all their male peers so that they would become the alphas of the groups and the females would mate with them instead...
It's saddening really, someone I've known since University became that guy. To give some context, we'd been friends through the trials of going through our 20's 30's and early 40's - marriages, divorces, failures and successes - I'd let a fair bit of spurious/shady stuff that he'd done go prior to this go, then last year he told me a story about how he'd called a company wide meeting and screamed at his teams about failure to hit targets would mean people (with families and mortgages) would be fired.
He laughed as he told me it was all bollocks as he wanted a new Aston Martin. I explained in four letter words what I thought of him and left. What was bizarre was he kept calling and texting afterwards, which I ignored - but in retrospect, I was the only friend he had left who knew him before he became the 'big shot'. Somewhere in that head of his, he maybe felt he'd lost the connection to the part of himself who started with next to nothing and wasn't a self centred, greedy, lying c*nt in an expensive suit, posh mini-mansion and a 4 year old Aston.
Sorry, rant over... it's sad to lose a long time friend, but fuck him.
He laughed as he told me it was all bollocks as he wanted a new Aston Martin. I explained in four letter words what I thought of him and left. What was bizarre was he kept calling and texting afterwards, which I ignored - but in retrospect, I was the only friend he had left who knew him before he became the 'big shot'. Somewhere in that head of his, he maybe felt he'd lost the connection to the part of himself who started with next to nothing and wasn't a self centred, greedy, lying c*nt in an expensive suit, posh mini-mansion and a 4 year old Aston.
Sorry, rant over... it's sad to lose a long time friend, but fuck him.
It's a "I'm strong enough that it doesn't matter that I'm being brazen about it, I'm not going to face any consequences anyways" sort of thing.
>> what I never understood was the reason for bragging about being unethical and/or immoral
http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html
> Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not about observing proprieties. That's why I'd use the word naughty rather than evil. They delight in breaking rules, but not rules that matter. This quality may be redundant though; it may be implied by imagination.
> Sam Altman of Loopt is one of the most successful alumni, so we asked him what question we could put on the Y Combinator application that would help us discover more people like him. He said to ask about a time when they'd hacked something to their advantage—hacked in the sense of beating the system, not breaking into computers. It has become one of the questions we pay most attention to when judging applications.
Lots of people misunderstand their unethical behaviour as naughtiness.
In the example given if you make your customers pay on delivery or pay 30 days after month end of invoice date, and you can pay your suppliers 60 or 90 days after month end of invoice date you've given your company a cashflow advantage. For unethical people if 60 days is good 365 days is obviously better.
http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html
> Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not about observing proprieties. That's why I'd use the word naughty rather than evil. They delight in breaking rules, but not rules that matter. This quality may be redundant though; it may be implied by imagination.
> Sam Altman of Loopt is one of the most successful alumni, so we asked him what question we could put on the Y Combinator application that would help us discover more people like him. He said to ask about a time when they'd hacked something to their advantage—hacked in the sense of beating the system, not breaking into computers. It has become one of the questions we pay most attention to when judging applications.
Lots of people misunderstand their unethical behaviour as naughtiness.
In the example given if you make your customers pay on delivery or pay 30 days after month end of invoice date, and you can pay your suppliers 60 or 90 days after month end of invoice date you've given your company a cashflow advantage. For unethical people if 60 days is good 365 days is obviously better.
Its not an American thing, in my opinion. Its more like an Ayn Rand'ian thing ..
In the mid-90s, I was 16 and had just started my very first job at a local ISP after having dropped out of high school (his needing a job with some urgency). It was right around the time that everyone and their mother started to check out this information superhighway thing, and mom and pop ISPs were sprouting up everywhere.
When I interviewed for a job, the owner, who we'll call Frank, seemed like a pretty decent guy. He was definitely quite smart, and knew what he was doing on the telco side. I got the job after like 5 minutes of interview and started the next day.
What Frank failed to tell me in the interview was that he was a completely batshit crazy sociopath. Within a couple of days, there was a fair bit of yelling and swearing about my mistakes, then progressively more and more, followed by genuine emotional abuse and even flipping lit cigarettes at us and throwing other things when we screwed something up.
I'm only 16 and an idiotic 16 year old at that, so I actually stay there like 6 months before I start to realize this isn't normal. One day, a few of us just get up and walk out. About a month later, I heard (and saw evidence as I was walking by) from a friend who was still there, that after hours, someone had shot up the back windows of the office (4th story office in Chicago, so it's pretty unlikely it was random).
Anyway, I manage to forget about it and move on with my life. 20 years later, I look him up to find he had served 3 years in the federal pokey for threatening a judge who had ruled against him in a tax case. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Pro tip: you don't get a warning when you threaten to kill a federal judge via email. You go straight to prison. Do. To pass go; do not collect $200.
When I interviewed for a job, the owner, who we'll call Frank, seemed like a pretty decent guy. He was definitely quite smart, and knew what he was doing on the telco side. I got the job after like 5 minutes of interview and started the next day.
What Frank failed to tell me in the interview was that he was a completely batshit crazy sociopath. Within a couple of days, there was a fair bit of yelling and swearing about my mistakes, then progressively more and more, followed by genuine emotional abuse and even flipping lit cigarettes at us and throwing other things when we screwed something up.
I'm only 16 and an idiotic 16 year old at that, so I actually stay there like 6 months before I start to realize this isn't normal. One day, a few of us just get up and walk out. About a month later, I heard (and saw evidence as I was walking by) from a friend who was still there, that after hours, someone had shot up the back windows of the office (4th story office in Chicago, so it's pretty unlikely it was random).
Anyway, I manage to forget about it and move on with my life. 20 years later, I look him up to find he had served 3 years in the federal pokey for threatening a judge who had ruled against him in a tax case. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Pro tip: you don't get a warning when you threaten to kill a federal judge via email. You go straight to prison. Do. To pass go; do not collect $200.
I worked in a ~10 person dev office about 30 minutes away from the company headquarters. We pretty much had free reign down there to do as we please. But with that meant that our boss had free reign to do as he pleased.
I saw him berate a coworker whose mom lost her job at the main office because she "wasn't doing her job." I personally have no opinion on whether it was an acceptable firing, just that an unrelated divisions boss shouldn't have that conversation and much less in front of his coworkers. Who would argue with him?
We had a full-time keg in the office which of course we all enjoyed in copious amounts. But you couldn't quit drinking there if you tried. He would constantly pressure employees into drinking with him at 11am when he showed up with bloody mary mixes.
He was more than happy to tell you about why we shouldn't let immigrants into this country because they are fundamentally flawed compared to US citizens. His argument was that bribery was an innate part of them and their culture. Once again, who would argue with their boss over this?
He would brag about the loaded gun he keeps in his desk drawer at the office. This may have been part of the culture, there were at least 4 people with concealed carries at a 10 person office.
Once, while discussing the hire of a female intern (we were an all male office) he "joked" that it didn't work out and that we would find some diversity someday. He followed that up with maybe we could even hire a nr.
On a business trip he disclosed medications that a coworker was taking in an effort to discredit him with me. He also claimed to be reading that employee's text messages on a company phone. I still don't know if this was true or not, only that he wanted me to believe it was true so that I would trust what he was saying.
I saw him berate a coworker whose mom lost her job at the main office because she "wasn't doing her job." I personally have no opinion on whether it was an acceptable firing, just that an unrelated divisions boss shouldn't have that conversation and much less in front of his coworkers. Who would argue with him?
We had a full-time keg in the office which of course we all enjoyed in copious amounts. But you couldn't quit drinking there if you tried. He would constantly pressure employees into drinking with him at 11am when he showed up with bloody mary mixes.
He was more than happy to tell you about why we shouldn't let immigrants into this country because they are fundamentally flawed compared to US citizens. His argument was that bribery was an innate part of them and their culture. Once again, who would argue with their boss over this?
He would brag about the loaded gun he keeps in his desk drawer at the office. This may have been part of the culture, there were at least 4 people with concealed carries at a 10 person office.
Once, while discussing the hire of a female intern (we were an all male office) he "joked" that it didn't work out and that we would find some diversity someday. He followed that up with maybe we could even hire a nr.
On a business trip he disclosed medications that a coworker was taking in an effort to discredit him with me. He also claimed to be reading that employee's text messages on a company phone. I still don't know if this was true or not, only that he wanted me to believe it was true so that I would trust what he was saying.
Micro management... treated like a resource. Basic stuff.
How about extreme narcissism leveraged off the fact that they are signing your paychecks
We were encouraged by our boss to look up the new hires (international women doing an internship for free) on Facebook and other social networks to see if they were hot before hiring them and we did have veto decision based on looks. Later my boss wasn't so happy that I didn't show my excitement about this even though I'm a straight young male (my other coworker wasn't so happy as well).
It was my first job, then something similar happened in my second job, but there I told my bosses that it'd be better idea to hire someone based on their knowledge and not on looks. I got scolded but stood my ground on this (even though in this job my coworkers were supportive on only hiring hot women). Now I've decided never to work again in this shitty country and I'm a freelancer earning 10x more money.
It was my first job, then something similar happened in my second job, but there I told my bosses that it'd be better idea to hire someone based on their knowledge and not on looks. I got scolded but stood my ground on this (even though in this job my coworkers were supportive on only hiring hot women). Now I've decided never to work again in this shitty country and I'm a freelancer earning 10x more money.
Some rude behavior is widely seen as acceptable in the US: snubbing, status slaps, insult delivery through jokes/sarcasm, interruptions, slouching during presentations.
That is the textbook behavior of a jerk. Anyone behaving consistently like that is a cultural liability that needs firing immediately.
That is the textbook behavior of a jerk. Anyone behaving consistently like that is a cultural liability that needs firing immediately.
To be honest, I would not feel comfortable at all with a manager that thinks interrupting or slouching are a firing offence.
What if valuable ideas are consistently lost or people's productivity is drained because someone feeds his ego interrupting others or encouraging people to ignore whoever takes the initiative to present an idea?
"Anyone behaving consistently like that is a cultural
liability that needs firing immediately."
Some behaviors are jarring because of mismatch of personal styles, not because the person intends to be disrespectful.
First the person needs to made accountable for their actions. This is the first cop out of incompetent managers - rather than hold a person accountable by pointing out their lapses - and giving them the opportunity to improve - they just fire them.
There is a possibility that the reprimandee will apologize and improve, thus leaving everyone feeling better. On the other hand, he might not.
Some behaviors are jarring because of mismatch of personal styles, not because the person intends to be disrespectful.
First the person needs to made accountable for their actions. This is the first cop out of incompetent managers - rather than hold a person accountable by pointing out their lapses - and giving them the opportunity to improve - they just fire them.
There is a possibility that the reprimandee will apologize and improve, thus leaving everyone feeling better. On the other hand, he might not.
Jerks play dirty and will always try to find a way to play dirty to gain advantage. It's really hard to reform a jerk.
Then, imagine that person does well, gets promoted, and once in a position of power goes full jerk again. Then your company implodes.
Then, imagine that person does well, gets promoted, and once in a position of power goes full jerk again. Then your company implodes.
I don't know, I might slouch at a presentation without thinking about it because I feel more comfortable in a slouching position.
I mean, people who selectively slouch in a presentation on purpose.
yeah but I mean how do you tell? I probably look like I am thinking I am too cool for this whole presentation thing and bothered to be there, which hey I might very well think that but I'm not purposely trying to signal it.
Some people do it selectively when the presenter ranks lower, e.g: managee
We had 3 guys on internship placement. Working hours for them were more strict than for others. One day on Friday everyone left the office before 5.30pm. At 5.27pm we had a call from important international customer. Boss got really angry that no one answered the call, while interns should be there, two most disliked got written warning, everyone got an email with a lot of vulgar words from boss and he threatened to fire people.
I was wondering, what could interns even say if they have answered the phone... They didn't even know about the project we had with that customer.
Can I name and shame?
I was wondering, what could interns even say if they have answered the phone... They didn't even know about the project we had with that customer.
Can I name and shame?
I was wondering, what could interns even say if they have answered the phone...
Adulate the customer, make empty promises and lie about the whereabouts of the responsible people, implying they're busy working to fulfill their specific requests. And generally avoid passing the impression that people leave early (read: "are slackers", from the customer's perspective).
Not that the reaction was appropriate, mind you. It's hardly reasonable to expect interns to know how to "service the account", as Carlin put it. I've been answering clients for a few years and I'm still quite junior at it.
Adulate the customer, make empty promises and lie about the whereabouts of the responsible people, implying they're busy working to fulfill their specific requests. And generally avoid passing the impression that people leave early (read: "are slackers", from the customer's perspective).
Not that the reaction was appropriate, mind you. It's hardly reasonable to expect interns to know how to "service the account", as Carlin put it. I've been answering clients for a few years and I'm still quite junior at it.
Please do! Poor interns.
A few years back the company I worked for had an office where we shared a floor with a recruitment company - they were too cheap to have a meeting room for their own use so they used to do their staff reviews in the shared kitchen area.
It was a regular occurrence to see people, both male and female, in tears being berated by one of their managers (one of their managers was termed "The Terminator" by one of my colleagues due to his warm and friendly manner).
Almost made me feel sympathetic for recruiters.
It was a regular occurrence to see people, both male and female, in tears being berated by one of their managers (one of their managers was termed "The Terminator" by one of my colleagues due to his warm and friendly manner).
Almost made me feel sympathetic for recruiters.
I got fired out of the blue from my first job for much vague reasons. My boss never approached to me to talk about anything, so I was super surprised. Everything seemed to be okay just 15 min before I got laid off. Oh, and he was super micromanaging, avoided one on one meetings, thought it was okay to have me illegally employed and passively bash me for everything I didn't know.
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It was back in the 90's in Texas, but I had a manager that used the word "nigger" casually in conversation. I saw this same guy sit a pair of shoes on a desk in front of a woman and ask her to get them shined.
That happened.
That happened.
What is the point of the question? Gather workplace horror stories? What for?
Building awareness ?
Sharing experience with others, realize that what you're going through didn't work for others, or is not commonly viewed as acceptable. Humans have very strong abilities to build justifications for what they are going through, in an effort to cope with bad things. However, sometimes, acceptance is detrimental.
Sharing such stories and discussing with people out of the company is an efficient way to prevent toxic cultures from emerging or continuing.
Sharing experience with others, realize that what you're going through didn't work for others, or is not commonly viewed as acceptable. Humans have very strong abilities to build justifications for what they are going through, in an effort to cope with bad things. However, sometimes, acceptance is detrimental.
Sharing such stories and discussing with people out of the company is an efficient way to prevent toxic cultures from emerging or continuing.
Because maybe it shows people who are suffering that they are not alone, and that it is ok to speak up about it and to do something about it.
Workplace harassment in any form is bullying, and needs to be stamped out.
Workplace harassment in any form is bullying, and needs to be stamped out.
Anonymous complaints in a HN thread started on premise of "I'm curious" is not what I'd call "do something about it" and "stamped out".
And why would we not want to name the company? That doesn't make any sense.
Raise awareness, at least.
Hmm let's see. I've had hot pans thrown at me, I've seen an apprenticeship knives thrown on the floor - tip first.
Pans left empty on a active gas jet, heating the handles up deliberately.
Casual sexisim in relation to wait staff.
Of course homophobia as well.
Screaming at new workers(always young), for not having something perfect when they were improperly shown.
Luckily I'm experienced enough now that I run the kitchen and can fire those idiots.
Pans left empty on a active gas jet, heating the handles up deliberately.
Casual sexisim in relation to wait staff.
Of course homophobia as well.
Screaming at new workers(always young), for not having something perfect when they were improperly shown.
Luckily I'm experienced enough now that I run the kitchen and can fire those idiots.
I wonder how much of this treatment can be attributed to one bad manager/CEO/employee as opposed to a rotten culture which has grown in a company over time.
I think if its the latter it would be a disservice to hide the name of the company and protect them. I understand for the need to stay anon though.
I think if its the latter it would be a disservice to hide the name of the company and protect them. I understand for the need to stay anon though.
No infrastructure, but expected to buy/create with our own pockets to perform required task.
I did this and left after the next paycheck. When they realized that an important part is missing, I was threatened in e-mail with being sued for stealing company equipment. I replied with the receipt I got from the retailer and asked them to attach that to the lawsuit as well. Never heard back from them.
I worked in a start-up where the CEO complained that the employees (4 developers) are spending too much time on the toilet.
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