China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites(ft.com)

192 pointsby jbegley5 tahun yang lalu153 comments

China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

https://www.ft.com/content/84b6b889-ae03-47f7-9cd0-bd604b21d5de

82 comments

What the CCP's been doing over the past couple of months is worrying. I wish there were a nicer explanation but it almost looks like they're preparing for war, or at least increasing confrontation.

schuke5 tahun yang lalu

Basic Orwell 101: Eternal war is a prerequisite for totalitarian rule. The war doesn't have to be real but the appearance of war or preparations for war is a must. Look at North Korea. It's almost always on brink of war with the South. China is moving in NK's direction so people feel war is coming. It's not, it's just that China is becoming more totalitarian. The ruling class don't care, don't want and actually cannot fight a war.

tablespoon5 tahun yang lalu

> Basic Orwell 101: Eternal war is a prerequisite for totalitarian rule.

I like Orwell, but people schematize real things into his examples too much, especially 1984. It's better to pay attention to the real thing as it is.

For instance, I think it's a serious possibility that China will mainly use economic power to expand its empire, by using markets to foster dependency in ways you can't really do if you've swallowed free market propaganda and your main motive is profit. The end goal could be something like China at the center of the world, with its ideology and system having prestige and setting the standard, surrounded by clearly-subordinate tributaries. That'd be great if your main ideological commitment is to Chinese nationalism, but not so great if you care about anything else.

secondaryacct5 tahun yang lalu

You probably transfer a lot of your own behaviour to us. Im not saying you're entirely wrong but look how many people in this article alone agreed to be quoted by an american newspaper to bemoan a gov initiative.

China gives you the illusion it can target its people toward enemies, but the truth is we dont care all that much to "expand an empire". We'd do the minimum if forced, as always.

If we could first make Hong Kong happy, that'd be a good first step :D

totony5 tahun yang lalu

To be fair, you're describing the USA over the past century

astrea5 tahun yang lalu

I know you meant this as nothing more than a dig at the US (yawn), but if anything that lends credence to his argument. They've seen the playbook and they're gonna try their hand at it now. If they're successful, then it becomes yet another chapter in the book on the rise and fall of empires that my grandson will write a high school essay on.

tablespoon5 tahun yang lalu

> To be fair, you're describing the USA over the past century

Then the question is: what are your commitments and which empire is closer to them?

Also, it's not exactly the US, since the US has a different underlying ideology, and US's commitment to free markets was successfully exploited by the Chinese in a way I don't think they'll be dumb enough to repeat.

justicezyx5 tahun yang lalu

LMAO...

Blaming war preparation on totalitarianism...

Do you know why CCP geared up military? Because the bombimg on Chinese embassy by US [1] and war plane collision off Chinese border [2].

That scared the shit out of CCP. It just shows that US always retain military option against them. And plant the deepest resentment towards US in Chinese citizens. CCP literally need to actively suppress the anti US sentiment to avoid affecting the business relationship.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

pphysch5 tahun yang lalu

The most plausible explanation [1] is that China is insulating its domestic economy from the coming global financial reckoning, by cracking down on excessive financialization, etc. Either the US Fed will hike rates (taper QE) and crash the financial markets like never before, or they will continue to kick the can down the road with increasingly negative rates and the USD will 'gradually' become worthless. Regardless, the correct play is to limit exposure to the USD system, and historically "closed" societies have the advantage here.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_circulation

roenxi5 tahun yang lalu

"If you want peace, prepare for war"

It is very scary in the Asia-Pacific region. But in recent times the wars of note have been America v. [various smoking craters]. In the local area, China, India, Japan & Korea all know how war works, and the SEA nations might be surprising.

It is early to start worrying about China starting something. It is a scarier thought imagining them responding to something else.

dirtyid5 tahun yang lalu

> nicer explanation

Xi is seeking 3rd term, he's initiating populist moves to appeal to the masses. That's more or less it on top of some medium/long term strategic shifts to improve self sufficiency (from US) which takes time to unfold.

>preparing for war

That's still 15-30 years away over TW, and by that time PLA will be strong enough to deter a big war with US. PLA is modernizing and preparing for war because that's what competent militaries do. PLA has been incompetent for too long. Keep in mind PRC military budget is still ~2%, if it's preparing for war expect this to double/triple. Plus PRC has been selling off oil reserves to control oil prices. It would be hoarding if preparing for imminent war.

throwaway_20475 tahun yang lalu

I used to live in Hong Kong. In the past 2 year situation has been Orwellian. News outlet being shutdown, pro-democratic parties dismissed, charities disbanded, whole members of political party got arrested, among others. At least 1% of the population fled the city in the first half of 2021.

In a parallel universe, and completely unrelated note, my friends in China, thinks their country can finally stand-up against the west. They cannot be more proud of their country. There is also the sentiment that the West would not doing anything concrete against China

I can dig up figures and references if anyone interested

Edited with reference:

[1] Clam down on Apple Daily, the only pro-democratic (that I know of) news outlet in Hong Kong

[2] Directors of Apple Daily arrested

[3] 65,000 applications of BN(O) visa, the visa for HKers to move to the UK. HK population is around 7.5M

[4] Youtubers exodus, for fear of government prosecution in the name of the national security or for whatever reason.

[5] 230 Democrats quitting local council.

[6] There are around 479 local council in total. So about half of them quit

[7] People were arrested in the name of national security here and there. A charity, formed last year, providing inmate visiting service, will be dismissed. Only Chinese source available at the moment

[8] During the peak of mass migration in the 90s, 62,000 people per year moved away from HK. Compare with 65,000 moving to the UK in the first 6 months

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kongs-apple-daily-will-clo...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/17/hong-kong-poli...

[3] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/65-000-hongkongers-apply-...

[4] https://www.youtube.com/c/memehongkong https://www.youtube.com/c/bobsyouruncle1981 https://www.youtube.com/c/Gavinchiu001 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVjj_osiKAP_qTtJAr6IrvA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh_KRmXM4RiQFvOBBDpvC6Q

[5] https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/230-elected-pro-democrats-q...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_councils_of_Hong_Kong

[7] https://news.now.com/home/local/player?newsId=449783

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waves_of_mass_migrations_from_...

moondistance5 tahun yang lalu

Please share figures and references. This is fascinating and of great interest to many of us. Thanks!

justicezyx5 tahun yang lalu

> [1] Clam down on Apple Daily, the only pro-democratic (that I know of) news outlet in Hong Kong

Apple Daily (Chinese: 蘋果日報) was a tabloid-style newspaper published in Hong Kong from 1995 to 2021.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Daily

If apple daily is the only pro democracy, which is a tabloid style newspaper, the conclusion is that HK democracy is likely a very poor one.

If apple daily is not the only pro democracy news outlet, I think shutting it down is contributing to a healthy democracy.

> [2] Directors of Apple Daily arrested

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Media-Entertainment/Shares-...

It seems the market welcomes that...

It either means the market cares little about democracy, or Jimmy is not really the friend of democracy as himself proclaimed.

> [3] 65,000 applications of BN(O) visa, the visa for HKers to move to the UK. HK population is around 7.5M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong#Tide_of_...

Let's how bad this compares to the 1990s after Tiananmen square... I think it probably wont surpass that. Note the 1992 peak is 66000 actually leaving, your number is just applications.

> [4] Youtubers exodus, for fear of government prosecution in the name of the national security or for whatever reason.

Similar to the above.

> [5] 230 Democrats quitting local council.

https://www.bbc.com/zhongwen/simp/chinese-news-57816972 They seem are disqualified on the new oath rule? Which says that if they do not take oath to be loyal to the HK government, they'll be disqualified. So they decide to resign first.

Well, I believe CCP is very happy that they gave up so easily...

> [7] People were arrested in the name of national security here and there. A charity, formed last year, providing inmate visiting service, will be dismissed. Only Chinese source available at the moment

Your link is about a non profit disbanded fearing of crackdown.

> [8] During the peak of mass migration in the 90s, 62,000 people per year moved away from HK. Compare with 65,000 moving to the UK in the first 6 months

I guess if HK economy were hurt enough because of this exodus, it helps to guide the democracy sentiment of the society.

throwaway_20475 tahun yang lalu

Thank you so much for taking the time to read the news. It is heartwarming to me. I will respond to the best of my knowledge.

> If apple daily is the only pro democracy, which is a tabloid style newspaper, the conclusion is that HK democracy is likely a very poor one.

Hong Kong doesn't have true democracy. On surface it might follow the British system [0]. The chief executive, the equivalent of mayor, is elected by the election committee of 1,200 members [1]. Slightly over half of the legislative council, the equivalent of the parliament, is the "functional constituency", which means those members are appointed by selected member of selected industries [2]. Hong Kong has been pushing for universal suffrage every year. Every year, peaceful demonstration is seen on 1st of July to ask for reforming the election[3]

> It seems the market welcomes that...

It is more nuanced. Some are market manipulation. Some wants to support Jimmy Lai. There were people spreading rumours on lihkg.com, the hong kong reddit, that buying stock of apple daily can financially support the company. There are people thinking the company will soon be de-listed, which is more likely true, hence want a piece of history by getting a physical stock. Some want to make a profit by riding the market trend hence perpetuating the rising trend.

> your number is just applications.

You are right. Some factor to consider:

- the numbers I quoted is for the UK only. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Taiwan are the other company choices

- There are around 300,000 Canadian in HK. They can leave anytime [4]. And there are many holders of other citizenship whom returned HK after the 90s migration, sensing that HK weren't as bad as imagined.

> They seem are disqualified on the new oath rule?

The new oath rule was imposed after the election if I remember correctly. And there is no governance over the execution of the rule. It's basically up to whoever in position thinks you violated the rule. No proof is needed.

> non profit disbanded fearing of crackdown.

I might have misused the term charity. Non-profit fearing crackdown is still wrong, right? It was a non-profit for visiting inmate, so they feel cared, after all

> it helps to guide the democracy sentiment of the society

People leaving the city are those either who care about democracy or who care about economy. So I hold opposite opinion. Time will tell.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers_in_Hong_K...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Committee_(Hong_Kong)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_constituency_(Hong_...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1_July_marches

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadians_in_Hong_Kong

justicezyx5 tahun yang lalu

> People leaving the city are those either who care about democracy or who care about economy. So I hold opposite opinion. Time will tell.

I never really understand these pro-democracy people. On the one hand, they seem wholeheartedly believe in the noble ideology. On the other hand, they seem are so timid that their only reaction under concrete threat is fleeing away.

Did they forgot how the American Forefathers fight for their independence, freedom, and democracy?

Are they really this naive that CCP are going to hand over democracy to them?

As for HK economy, CCP can make Macau prosper, I see no chance HK economy can flop. Good luck with fleeing HK and demonstrate the "pro democracy"...

3pt141595 tahun yang lalu

When Trump was elected China had no better time to finally act. A destabilized and distracted west and political cover for actions as responses to Trump's aggressive on China tone.

Even now, we're not out of the woods yet. The west is still dealing with the lingering effects of Trumpism and Covid has balance sheets and attentions. Consolidating power now while nobody in the world will really challenge them. The democrats can't survive a recession on top of the Afghanistan disaster and prolonged Covid. They're not going to really sanction China.

dillondoyle5 tahun yang lalu

I don't buy this. I think it would have been the WORST time for Xi to act or get aggressive.

Trump is legitimately unstable and so selfish as to try to use the military and provocations - even on US soil he wanted to deploy forces - to win or fulfill his deluded post election craziness.

Just today excerpts came out of Woodward's new book; one revelation is General Milley called up his counterpart in China, kind of roguely, in a Nixon esque attempt to say hey, this guy is freaking crazy let's use bureaucracy to try to maintain status quo and go around any dangerous orders.

3pt141595 tahun yang lalu

I'm aware of the book and two things can be true at the same time. The clampdown in HK came at a time when Americans were least likely to lead a coordinated effort to punish it.

China has been way less cautious over the past four or five years, and I do not think Trump being in office is a coincidence.

vladTheInhaler5 tahun yang lalu

Let's not beat around the bush. Trump is not very smart, and not at all well-informed. In fact he actively removed anyone from his inner circle who showed signs of being either of those things. So I think China was able to move confidently in a lot of areas, because they knew Trump and his cabinet would fail to understand the significance of their actions. This includes erosion of democratic norms in Hong Kong - Trump doesn't understand or care about democratic values, and has in fact attacked them himself domestically, so that represented a huge opportunity for China.

At the same time, Trump is deeply insecure, and is attached to the idea of military power somehow reflecting his own masculinity. Look at his tweets in response to North Korea's provocations, for instance, and how he made them all about him personally. So I think China was careful not to take action that would cause Trump to feel slighted or emasculated and feel a need for direct military action.

So within that narrow area of military pride and perhaps domestic manufacturing, Trump represented a real threat of retaliation and escalation, but beyond that he was pretty much asleep at the wheel.

mensetmanusman5 tahun yang lalu

Trump was a symptom of a huge disruption due to globalization.

walrus015 tahun yang lalu

> What the CCP's been doing over the past couple of months is worrying.

Past couple of months?

Try past 40 years...

One of my earliest childhood concrete memories of watching a news event of global importance was the CNN, NBC and BBC coverage of the Tienanmen Square massacre.

depaulagu5 tahun yang lalu

Yep, what the CCP's been doing over the past couple of /decades/ is worrying

A4ET8a8uTh05 tahun yang lalu

You are making a very valid point. For a good amount of time China was not just tolerated, but supported by US business in general. In a sense, Lenin was right about the rope. The trope about prosperity bringing democracy was wrong.

I will go even further. What China is doing may become something US will at least partially adopt.

dillondoyle5 tahun yang lalu

We already have. Thinking of HK, Xinjiang makes me feel we have lost moral standing. But I do understand the calculus and nuance of weighing what an actual war would inflict if we stood up to stop the wrong.

justicezyx5 tahun yang lalu

> but supported by US business in general

Aside from earning more profit doing business in China. Is there other support from US business?

postingawayonhn5 tahun yang lalu

I think it is correct that prosperity will eventually bring democracy.

Xi sees that too and is busy trying to knock China's wealthy citizens down a couple of notches.

tablespoon5 tahun yang lalu

>> I think it is correct that prosperity will eventually bring democracy.

> Xi sees that too and is busy trying to knock China's wealthy citizens down a couple of notches.

What do billionaire-wealthy citizens have to do with prosperity or democracy (besides the fantasies of pro-billionaire propaganda)?

ddoolin5 tahun yang lalu

Well, they did pick up Jack Ma for speaking out against gov't regulation (to put it simply). Celebrities in China, including the wealthy, have a lot of influence. Their "abductions" almost certainly are intertwined with keeping a grip on their power.

A4ET8a8uTh05 tahun yang lalu

From that perspective, I can understand why Xi wants to limit power of individuals he sees in US ( they do wield tremendous amount of power ). He obviously understands it is a threat to the system ( and by extension himself ).

I have long argued that too much power in one individual is a bad thing ( and that includes billionaires ).

alisonkisk5 tahun yang lalu

postingawayonhn5 tahun yang lalu

I didn't say anything about billionaires.

I was talking more broadly about upper-class people in China. Generally anyone who lives in a tier 1 city and has a quality of life approaching that of people in developed nations.

It's easy to keep poor people happy through continued economic growth but once people reach a certain level of material wealth they're going to start demanding more personal freedoms.

powerapple5 tahun yang lalu

Comparing to whom? The last decades of CCP rule is excellent comparing to any other candidates. You want Chinese to believe Afghanistan is better? In past decades, which country started multiple wars? CCP may produced some cheap quality stuff so people in poor country can have cheap stuff, I see it as a plus.

postingawayonhn5 tahun yang lalu

I don't think it necessarily signals war. It's just Xi trying to bring the citizens and economy back under his control. In his mind the opening up of China went a little too far.

PicassoCTs5 tahun yang lalu

The big problem right now is that they invite chinese ex-pats home for a passport renewl, but do not renew that passport. Which means, if you visit family, you are trapped, even if you are not very outspoken regarding politics.

PikachuEXE5 tahun yang lalu

That should be "past couple of years" not months.

ishikawa5 tahun yang lalu

Indeed. And they can manipulate many weaker countries.

[deleted]5 tahun yang lalu

president5 tahun yang lalu

It has escalated in the past few years but they've been preparing for decades. Last month, Chinese warships were spotted [1] near Alaska. I find it strange that these acts of aggression are not known by your average American citizen.

[1] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3148725/us-...

pphysch5 tahun yang lalu

Until the Chinese have carriers perpetually parked in the Gulf of Mexico, they haven't even begun to reciprocate Washington's naval aggression in the South China Sea.

finiteseries5 tahun yang lalu

It will never cease to amaze me how often we forget the absurd balance of power involved here.

There is an island across a tiny strait away from China’s mainland that literally claims… the mainland. It has existed for 80 years. It’s now kinda sorta being dealt with as a power would, but even that’s questionable, and even that strait is not even important to the region. This entire struggle is happening while Malacca is just sitting right there in the US’s Infinity Gauntlet with the Hormuz, Suez, Panama etc. Wild.

dillondoyle5 tahun yang lalu

I don't think following maritime law is aggression. From my understanding, CCPs claims to islands and waters become legitimate if we cede the ground under maritime law.

justicezyx5 tahun yang lalu

No, the parent post is talking about the distance to the main land...

dillondoyle5 tahun yang lalu

Maybe I'm not understanding? But my point is in both cases - unless there is really huge news I missed - both China and the US did not enter actual territorial waters with military vessels. The US transits the strait so China's large claims don't have legitimacy. It'd be like the us claiming any ships sailing around cuba are in our waters.

justicezyx5 tahun yang lalu

If all other countries park their military weaponry at the same distance as US weaponry to their own home land, the US border will be packed with all sorts of killing machines from a lot of countries. That's the point.

As for how long is the actual distance, well, that doesn't matter much.

mensetmanusman5 tahun yang lalu

A better analogy would be closer to California, because the US is protecting trade routes.

finiteseries5 tahun yang lalu

California is an import-consumer-product route for the US.

SCS is an export-everything/import-food-energy-also-basically-everything route for China.

Gulf of Mexico + Caribbean would be a far closer comparison with whatever non North American US exports that exist going out through there, and eg Cuba, Venezuela & all the other nations vs California’s fish.

pphysch5 tahun yang lalu

Protecting trade routes from whom? Itself?

https://www.voanews.com/extremism-watch/us-seeks-seizure-ira...

ipnon5 tahun yang lalu

Technically, this application appears to request all permissions for your phone. An FT commentator claims the app seems to leave spyware on your phone even after you delete it.

baja_blast5 tahun yang lalu

So like Zoom?

neonate5 tahun yang lalu

https://archive.is/dCxl0

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK5 tahun yang lalu

Why financial news sites are so dangerous? My guess police officers are looking for people with illegal wealth overseas for a little shake up.

jack_riminton5 tahun yang lalu

Was the cracking down always the plan for the CCP? use capitalism to rise the tide and then once everything has been modernised take control again?

dragonelite5 tahun yang lalu

Like the Deng Xiaoping quote goes "Some areas and some people can get rich first, lead and help other regions and people, and gradually achieve common prosperity." wouldn't be surprised its probably a mistranslation of the real quote.

But Lenin talks about using capitalism to increase the productive powers of a nation and use the generated surplus values to help the people get cheap healthcare, infrastructure and a better common prosperity. Instead of seeing the capitalist stash away in a bank account not being trickled down to general public.

ulzeraj5 tahun yang lalu

Thats not Lenin's idea. Karl Marx wrote that communism cannot be achieved without capitalism. You can't jump from a potato farming economy into a communist utopia.

If I'm not mistaken and I'm pretty sure if I am people will correct me, he actually praised capitalism for being a much more efficient economic system than what humanity had in feudalism and mercantilism. However he believed that capitalism has a hard cap where it starts to devour itself. He lived in a time when people where buying bonds from countries that did not exist.

colordrops5 tahun yang lalu

The goal of capitalism was never to concentrate wealth in the hands of a tiny minority, regardless of the ideology of the nation.

ulzeraj5 tahun yang lalu

That makes no sense. Capitalism has no goal. Capitalism is the market and the market are people. You might not like the results but saying it is alive and has a goal sound exactly like conspiracy theorists who believe in NWO and the Illuminati.

andrekandre5 tahun yang lalu

  > Capitalism is the market and the market are people.

markets can (and did) exist before capitalism

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042215/what-differe...

colordrops5 tahun yang lalu

What I meant was "the goal of regimes that implement capitalism was never to concentrate wealth".

Also I was saying what the goal wasn't.

Do you understand now?

ulzeraj5 tahun yang lalu

I'm sorry I've misread.

vmception5 tahun yang lalu

Just one of many plans that now has a decent opportunity presented.

China can sometimes seem arbitrary but its much easier to think of it as a theme park than what we respect as governments. At a theme park, run by a corporation, you understand there are rules that can be enforced, your participation is limited and conditional, anything exploitative or erotic will be policed swiftly and heavily, and some exhibits are cordoned off and empty. Even if we want to imagine that everyone is woefully oppressed actively thinking about how oppressed they are, the day to day experience can actually be pretty pleasant and everyone also understands that it would be dumb to challenge the stewards of the park.

jack_riminton5 tahun yang lalu

Yes but in this case I think a more apt analogy would be of a funfair with lots of different stall owners who were under the impression that although they weren't completely free, they at least wouldn't have their stalls taken over at some point in the future

cybernautique5 tahun yang lalu

I never thought I'd see an unironic invocation of panem-et-circenses[1], especially with regards to a sinofascist regime.

It is extremely incorrect, untoward, and downright harmful to draw parallels between the CCP and, say, Busch Gardens.

In a theme park, run by a corporation, I understand that the proprietors of said park will not: drag me to a detention camp; do the same, or worse, for the unfortunate souls who share my relation; imprison and enslave millions of ethnic/religious minorities; make extremely aggressive overtures against other "theme parks," to the tune of building artificial land to claim (in whole or part) the international commons.

[1] https://www.mccc.edu/pdf/arc141/Bread%20&%20Circuses%20(Pane...

mensetmanusman5 tahun yang lalu

Maybe a doom park is better?

vmception5 tahun yang lalu

Think of it more like if the British East India Company ran a theme park, if the analogy is what bothers you. (As that corporation did have those unilateral powers)

president5 tahun yang lalu

I don't think there is any plan other than use any tool available to maintain power and control.

bakuninsbart5 tahun yang lalu

It depends on what you mean by crackdown. On capitalism? Yes, and they've been really clear about it. China still has the official plan to introduce socialism by 2050, capitalist freedoms were never meant to be permanent. Now by 2050, the CCP is also supposed to be merely taking a backseat roll and the society will be equal and free. I think that's the contentious point within the CCP. Xi is part of the hardline left within the party, who is scared of losing to much influence to capitalists. He is naturally allied with CCP members who want more hard power. Lastly he's also almost certainly a social conservative, as are many of the current people in the leadership.

Xi was sent to hard labor in the countryside as a youth, and then went on to pretty strict education. He sees younger people today as weak and fun-seeking and that doesn't sit well with him and the other bigwigs. (This is all my own conjecture, take it with a grain of salt)

star-trek-fleet5 tahun yang lalu

> China still has the official plan to introduce socialism by 2050

Where did you get this?

Socialism is installed in China in 1960s, as we were told in text book.

If there was such a plan to start socialism in China in 2050, that must be invented after 2008 after I left China.

As for what is really socialism, the definitions I see so far are as colorful as capitalism. You might be referring some definition of socialism you saw from Chinese source, or some translated sources?

It's becoming more and more clear that China is more of a political imagination for venting, at least on HN.

bakuninsbart5 tahun yang lalu

Indeed, translations change a lot, and phrasing also changed over time within China, but you are right to call me out on being imprecise. In german we usually differentiate between socialistic and socialist with the former being the movement working on becoming the second. Still, Marx was already talking about the difference between "lower" communism, socialist mode of production, and "final" communism, the communist society. Mao said China was in the initial stage of socialism, but didn't really explain what that meant. This was then built on by his successors.[1]

This article goes into a bit of detail on the current plan, which is now to reach the final state of socialism by 2050.[2]

This has been a key aspect of internal CPC ideology since the 70s, so I'm not sure what you consider "venting".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_stage_of_socialism

[2] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-15-9833-3_...

star-trek-fleet5 tahun yang lalu

I am not sure why do you want to keep pushing your idea.

I was born in China. I searched around for 2050 and all it shows was reach socialism modernization. The key is modernization. Not socialism.

Socialism as a social and economic order already reached it's height before 1980s...

Trias115 tahun yang lalu

Please - if you're posting paywalled articles - provide the way to read them without paying.

Otherwise it looks like a sales pitch.

dillondoyle5 tahun yang lalu

The #1 comment on basically all threads now is archive.is and you simply need to do archive.is/https://whatever.url

aurizon5 tahun yang lalu

deleted, the comments revealed the flaws

wongarsu5 tahun yang lalu

Instead of shooting down satellites and causing an international incident, along with risking Kessler syndrome, why not just prevent people from owning Starlink Terminals? You can enforce it fairly easily with import bans, and find smuggled devices by triangulating their radio signals (worst case equip a couple planes to fly over the country to look for Starlink radio signals). Or just strongarm SpaceX into not providing service to terminals in mainland China.

Mindless21125 tahun yang lalu

Or just jam it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_jamming_in_China

ashtonkem5 tahun yang lalu

Aren’t the current terminals quite large? They’d be hard to smuggle.

trompetenaccoun5 tahun yang lalu

It would never happen. Musk wants to sell cars in China, Tesla has important factories there as well. The Chinese government has a lot more leverage when it comes to these companies, they could simply shut them down without warning and crash the shareholder's stocks.

postingawayonhn5 tahun yang lalu

I tend to agree with this line of thinking though Tesla has some leverage too.

The factory complex Tesla has built in Shanghai has been funded with several billion dollars of local debt. If China were to seize the factory then Tesla would simply stop servicing that debt.

mensetmanusman5 tahun yang lalu

I don’t know if this is true, especially in the case of Tesla.

The fact is, China prevents money from leaving their country, so any western company in China is kind of a farce, because they can’t actually take their money out if they make any. What they do hope to get out of China though is intellectual property, which can pass boundaries without taxes.

If Musk really has a utopian goal of decreasing emissions, he couldn’t care less if China took over Tesla China, because he won’t be making actual money from Tesla China anyway. Instead, he hopes that manufacturing innovations and ideas can be shared to his other factories.

If china took over tesla China and didn’t share innovations, that would just be stupid on their part, because the rest of the world would be working together and sharing innovation without them.

Loic5 tahun yang lalu

They will do it. The 100-year-CCP discourse of Xi clearly stated that he wants CCP to be self-sufficient. He will simply take control of all the West assets in China once he considers that the West cannot do anything against the takeover.

West: in the sense everything but China.

star-trek-fleet5 tahun yang lalu

Well, you certainly underestimate Mr. Xi. He wants his state-owned enterprise to be so efficient and innovative that, it's useless to own the worse foreign assets. After all, Mr. Xi believe that his state owned enterprise will produce the best and the most desirable products on the market. Without foreign assets, the world would not open their market to Mr. Xi then. The same capitalism logic...

Proven5 tahun yang lalu