Ask HN: How do you avoid video game addiction?
164 comments
If you really need to stop, use cheats.
That will break the dopamine cycle and you’ll be free.
Maybe it also works to limit play time to healthy levels.
For example, I was once playing quite a bit of WoW, and after I trying it out on an unofficial server where I could teleport anywhere made the game lose all its appeal.
That will break the dopamine cycle and you’ll be free.
Maybe it also works to limit play time to healthy levels.
For example, I was once playing quite a bit of WoW, and after I trying it out on an unofficial server where I could teleport anywhere made the game lose all its appeal.
Thirded. I broke (nascent but potent) Diablo 2 and Minecraft additions by giving myself everything and realising there was nothing for me to look forward to at the end of that path. I still had some fun, but I didn't have that know in my stomach when going to sleep that I was seconds away from something great.
I do the same with long TV series', if I find myself wanting to stay up late watching an episode of something, I read the plot of the entire thing on wikipedia (either the entire summary or season by season summaries).
I have never, not once, had anything "spoiled". Even if I did I'd prefer that to spoiling a single good night's sleep.
I do the same with long TV series', if I find myself wanting to stay up late watching an episode of something, I read the plot of the entire thing on wikipedia (either the entire summary or season by season summaries).
I have never, not once, had anything "spoiled". Even if I did I'd prefer that to spoiling a single good night's sleep.
Getting banned from the game because of cheating will also be helpful.
I disagree. It's easier to do none of something addictive than it is to do a little. Your advice goes against what most addiction specialists purport. Obviously this person couldn't manage the vice in the past, so he should avoid it.
We’re not talking about an alcoholic cutting down to a couple of drinks. So maybe there’s merit in it. From my experience, running cheats gives short term fun but then can ruin the game.
Cheating works for me, because the addiction is not directly to the game but to the sense of accomplishment that I derive from the game, and often the anticipation too. Cheating removes that accomplishment and allows me to lose interest in a game way faster.
Can you elaborate on the advice of addiction specialist? What would they propose to do here instead?
Uhhh I did this back when I was an infant (probably 12 or something I'd play games with cheats) and to this day I can't derive any enjoyment from most games. Cheats really do ruin it for some.
I haven't seen any games that held any interest for me since Baldur's Gate and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.
I guess it's easier for me since I refuse to buy any computing devices other than Apple, and since many games are console or PC only, I just don't ever get tempted.
I'm okay with that. I haven't even played Baldur's Gate or KotOR in years, even though I do have them on my iPad.
I guess it's easier for me since I refuse to buy any computing devices other than Apple, and since many games are console or PC only, I just don't ever get tempted.
I'm okay with that. I haven't even played Baldur's Gate or KotOR in years, even though I do have them on my iPad.
This gave mixed results in helping me break my online chess addiction. Some games its too easy to recreate an account. Blocking myself from the website helped deal with habitually opening the site whenever I felt bored, so I would try uninstalling first, just to add a bit of resistance.
Seconded, cheat to break the cycle. It's helped me out of many mobile games.
How can you cheat on mobile games?
Well, on a rooted android device, specifically to combat mindless tapping games, tap titans / egg inc /etc, an auto-clicker program helped me break a multiweek long gaming cycle.
There are modded apks. I have one for Stardew Valley because it's pretty mindless to continuously click on farmland.
Worked for me with Simpsons Tapped Out. I loaded a cracked version that let me have everything I wanted for free. Very quickly lost its appeal. I broke a 6-month, 7-sessions-a-day habit in about 3 days.
However, the micro-transaction games often start getting fun after you start cheating (aka paying). Especially things like card games.
Cheats are not enabled in multiplayer mode (which is the addicting one for me)
I have this same hyper competitive drive. Dungeons and Dragons somehow scratches this same competitive itch without the toxicity. There’s a cap on how much time I can play because I have to get a group of people together to play it.
>According to Steam I played over 2.000 hours during 2020 and 2021.
Less than three hours a day for passive recreation is hardly out of line with modern western lifestyles. The average American spends more than that watching television.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2021-07-22/...
I obviously wouldn't want to deter anybody from productive work in favor of entertainment, but physical and mental rest is a biological necessity. Don't feel bad for kicking back if it's just a couple of hours a day.
Less than three hours a day for passive recreation is hardly out of line with modern western lifestyles. The average American spends more than that watching television.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2021-07-22/...
I obviously wouldn't want to deter anybody from productive work in favor of entertainment, but physical and mental rest is a biological necessity. Don't feel bad for kicking back if it's just a couple of hours a day.
I don't think its healthy because he changed his lifestyle around it. He said he would wake up early, go to sleep late and put off work.
Americans watch a lot of TV, but no one is setting an alarm to binge watch Jeopardy.
Americans watch a lot of TV, but no one is setting an alarm to binge watch Jeopardy.
There's that "looking back" approach which justifies it, then there's the looking forward approach which makes you wince: "Tomorrow and every-day after, I will commit to spending 3 hours a day of my 17 available waking hours... playing games".
The thing is games usually don't get anywhere. If I watch the Marvel movies for 100 hours, or most series, I'd be done with the whole thing. I've been playing Xenonauts for almost 100 hours and I'm only halfway through the campaign.
There's little satisfaction. Not as much growth as say, playing a sport, and not as much rest as just sleeping or lying down with a book/TV. I think games have evolved to be more competitive than fun, in both design and marketing.
There's little satisfaction. Not as much growth as say, playing a sport, and not as much rest as just sleeping or lying down with a book/TV. I think games have evolved to be more competitive than fun, in both design and marketing.
I'd like to play again if I could go down to 3 hours per week.
3 hours per day including weekends is too much in my opinion. Take into account I work full time, we went to trips and did stuff together with my wife in those 2 years. So if I was away for a weekend I would play 6 hours for 2 days to compensate.
I basically was playing that game at every slice of free time that I had available.
3 hours per day including weekends is too much in my opinion. Take into account I work full time, we went to trips and did stuff together with my wife in those 2 years. So if I was away for a weekend I would play 6 hours for 2 days to compensate.
I basically was playing that game at every slice of free time that I had available.
A lot of that TV watching is TV on background. That is not the same as compulsive TV watching where you can't stop despite feeling affected.
Video games are hardly passive! The brain is extremely active while playing!
Step one is to be OK with mediocrity. When you pick up a game, you need to be willing to accept that you just don't need to be the best at it. If you can't accept this for competitive multiplayer games, you just need to find a non-competitive game. If you can't do this even for non-competitive games (this has been known to happen in the speedrunning community), then video games just might not be the hobby for you.
You can strive to improve, but you need to measure yourself relative to yourself alone. The best players of any game (whether it be the latest MOBA, a traditional game like chess, or even a physical sport like golf) put far more time into it than would be healthy for a non-professional. Even the average player that you play against likely puts more time into it than you should, because addicted people will play a disproportionate number of games.
If you can accept that you're not going to be the best, and just compare this game to your last one, that's the first step. The next (but not final) step is just good old-fashioned time management. You can get better advice on that from elsewhere, but it's important to have a system.
You can strive to improve, but you need to measure yourself relative to yourself alone. The best players of any game (whether it be the latest MOBA, a traditional game like chess, or even a physical sport like golf) put far more time into it than would be healthy for a non-professional. Even the average player that you play against likely puts more time into it than you should, because addicted people will play a disproportionate number of games.
If you can accept that you're not going to be the best, and just compare this game to your last one, that's the first step. The next (but not final) step is just good old-fashioned time management. You can get better advice on that from elsewhere, but it's important to have a system.
I just decided to restart 'from the bottom' in a ladder game, but this time not trying to progress up the ranks but rather play more conscientiously than fast or good in other ways, or by trying out different ways of playing. So far I've been finding this to be a more pleasurable pastime. The irony is that I'm still climbing the ranks and will at some point reach a ceiling where I'll be grinding again. So far though it's like replaying an old favorite and doing all the side missions.
Great comment and yes, I am definitely too competitive and always want to be the best at everything :/
You are right maybe video games are not the best hobby for me
You are right maybe video games are not the best hobby for me
I can't answer your question directly but I can share my experience. I put ~3k hours into a fast paced fast twitch competitive multiplayer in around 3 or 4 years, significantly increased in 2020 of course. I had some thought that maybe it was addiction, for sure part of the problem was covid, but I also made a number of friends and so it was social too.
Eventually the social scene kind of fell over for me, covid loosened up, and I realized my time spent had not decreased. Putting some thought into what made the game enjoyable for me personally and I realized it was the process of improving that made it rewarding. Then I took a look at well what have I really been improving lately? Again social scene is done so I'm not improving team play, what about solo play? Not really there either. I had reached a peak that wasn't surmountable with the state of the game (matchmaking and network reliability at my skill level was not conducive to the experiences that would allow me to improve) and so realizing that all of the thrill and promise of improvement kind of fell off and I mostly stopped playing for a few months.
Lately I've been trying to rekindle some social scene and have defined some new development goals that aren't as grindy as my previous solo play. More casual play.
Maybe some introspection on what you are getting out of it I guess. I hadn't thought that hard about about how improvement was the main feature for me, of course I noticed myself getting better but once I identified that as the ultimate source of enjoyment and a lacking feature I organically lost interest.
Eventually the social scene kind of fell over for me, covid loosened up, and I realized my time spent had not decreased. Putting some thought into what made the game enjoyable for me personally and I realized it was the process of improving that made it rewarding. Then I took a look at well what have I really been improving lately? Again social scene is done so I'm not improving team play, what about solo play? Not really there either. I had reached a peak that wasn't surmountable with the state of the game (matchmaking and network reliability at my skill level was not conducive to the experiences that would allow me to improve) and so realizing that all of the thrill and promise of improvement kind of fell off and I mostly stopped playing for a few months.
Lately I've been trying to rekindle some social scene and have defined some new development goals that aren't as grindy as my previous solo play. More casual play.
Maybe some introspection on what you are getting out of it I guess. I hadn't thought that hard about about how improvement was the main feature for me, of course I noticed myself getting better but once I identified that as the ultimate source of enjoyment and a lacking feature I organically lost interest.
> once I identified that as the ultimate source of enjoyment and a lacking feature I organically lost interest.
This is a very good point. I'm from the "Inception School of Change", in that change only comes from within. You "need to go deeper" and find the root cause of your conflict, and don't try to change it. Just seeing it is the change you need, the rest follows organically. The question is the answer.
This is a very good point. I'm from the "Inception School of Change", in that change only comes from within. You "need to go deeper" and find the root cause of your conflict, and don't try to change it. Just seeing it is the change you need, the rest follows organically. The question is the answer.
I'm not a psychologist but my understanding is that addiction and destructive habits usually have a deeper underlying cause. Gaming itself is not a problem of course but excessive gaming is.
Perhaps instead of tackling it head on, it would be valuable to observe the problem and ask yourself "what could be causing this?" are you using games to fill a void? Perhaps there is a romantic/professional issue that you don't want to deal with? Maybe you are struggling financially? Of course I won't pretend to know but you this could be an interesting psychological exercise..
My point is that, if you want to change your behavior, you need to grasp two important points:
1. We can "hack" our brains 2. Very few of our traits are "permanent", thus it is futile to "label" oneself.
I've personally used the above to change many of my own habits: improving my social skills, improving my relationships, learning to exercise, etc. We often forget that we are incredibly adaptable creatures.
I highly recommend that you checkout https://fs.blog/mental-models/ regarding various mental models, it could be a great starting point for you.
The last thing I will remind you is: be kind and patient with yourself because change happens slowly!
Perhaps instead of tackling it head on, it would be valuable to observe the problem and ask yourself "what could be causing this?" are you using games to fill a void? Perhaps there is a romantic/professional issue that you don't want to deal with? Maybe you are struggling financially? Of course I won't pretend to know but you this could be an interesting psychological exercise..
My point is that, if you want to change your behavior, you need to grasp two important points:
1. We can "hack" our brains 2. Very few of our traits are "permanent", thus it is futile to "label" oneself.
I've personally used the above to change many of my own habits: improving my social skills, improving my relationships, learning to exercise, etc. We often forget that we are incredibly adaptable creatures.
I highly recommend that you checkout https://fs.blog/mental-models/ regarding various mental models, it could be a great starting point for you.
The last thing I will remind you is: be kind and patient with yourself because change happens slowly!
I went through this cycle a couple of times with a mobile game.
I did something very similar, steadily played more and more, got more competitive and ended up dedicating way too much time and money to it.
Similarly the only way I managed to quit the first time was by quitting everything. Discord, uninstalling the game.
At the point I quit I actually had to make a decision - go along to the local chess club for the first time to try and make some real friends in the town where I'd moved to, or play a competitive game with my game team. I picked the chess club and I'm glad I did.
I even went back to the game after about 6 months, through one friend I made. I got very competitive again and won the lower tier of the biggest competition they created in the game (our team got something like 900 euros of in-game prizes).
However again it got too much and again the only way out was cold-turkey.
Personally for me there is no 'healthy' amount - and your personality sounds similar. Plus with these competitive games they make it so that there is no healthy amount, if you want to compete you have to spend lots of money or invest unhealthy amounts of time.
I've stopped completely now, I occasionally chat to my old team - they're still playing. It was a useful escape during a pretty depressing time.
In the end I value the friends I made, which I don't think I would have made any other way, but I'm glad I've stopped.
I did something very similar, steadily played more and more, got more competitive and ended up dedicating way too much time and money to it.
Similarly the only way I managed to quit the first time was by quitting everything. Discord, uninstalling the game.
At the point I quit I actually had to make a decision - go along to the local chess club for the first time to try and make some real friends in the town where I'd moved to, or play a competitive game with my game team. I picked the chess club and I'm glad I did.
I even went back to the game after about 6 months, through one friend I made. I got very competitive again and won the lower tier of the biggest competition they created in the game (our team got something like 900 euros of in-game prizes).
However again it got too much and again the only way out was cold-turkey.
Personally for me there is no 'healthy' amount - and your personality sounds similar. Plus with these competitive games they make it so that there is no healthy amount, if you want to compete you have to spend lots of money or invest unhealthy amounts of time.
I've stopped completely now, I occasionally chat to my old team - they're still playing. It was a useful escape during a pretty depressing time.
In the end I value the friends I made, which I don't think I would have made any other way, but I'm glad I've stopped.
Yes I also think it's about my personality. I'm also highly competitive. I don't know if I would be able to play just a bit for fun.
For me the fun is in trying to be the best among my friends/discord groups, then the best of the country, then the best of the world (ofc the best of the world streams on twitch and the game is his job and main source of income)
In those 2 years I was able to go reach top20 in my country and without paying for any 1-1 coaching which is common for many to keep improving
For me the fun is in trying to be the best among my friends/discord groups, then the best of the country, then the best of the world (ofc the best of the world streams on twitch and the game is his job and main source of income)
In those 2 years I was able to go reach top20 in my country and without paying for any 1-1 coaching which is common for many to keep improving
It's weird, I was very addicted to gaming as a teen. World of Warcraft for 14 hours a day was very normal (and some how I still wasn't incredible at the game). After turning 18, I landed my first job pumping gas and it straightened me out. It fixed most of my social anxiety and stopped spending all day inside.
Now 10~ years later, I've swapped addictions. Cars. Spending an entire weekend dismantling and tinkering in the garage, while spending all my money on car related stuff.
I yearn for the days of gaming. It was a very cheap hobby in comparison.
I don't have much advice, but some people have much more addictive personalities or a lack of discipline. I've avoided all drugs/drinking for this exact reason.
I've been attempting to ease away from car stuff, and go back to a more productive "addiction" by learning EE and programming more.
Now 10~ years later, I've swapped addictions. Cars. Spending an entire weekend dismantling and tinkering in the garage, while spending all my money on car related stuff.
I yearn for the days of gaming. It was a very cheap hobby in comparison.
I don't have much advice, but some people have much more addictive personalities or a lack of discipline. I've avoided all drugs/drinking for this exact reason.
I've been attempting to ease away from car stuff, and go back to a more productive "addiction" by learning EE and programming more.
Yes I also think I have a personality prone to addictions. For example I've never touched WoW because I know the theme of the game, I know myself and I'm pretty sure I'd get hooked to it, probably to never come back to real life :D
Good luck getting away from the car stuff. Maybe try sports, it's something I really want to start this year. Even if we get addicted to sports too, at least it will be healthy!
Good luck getting away from the car stuff. Maybe try sports, it's something I really want to start this year. Even if we get addicted to sports too, at least it will be healthy!
I would say you can't play that game anymore. You were obviously getting something out of that game, so you need to find a replacement for that, that is less addicting. You said you like the flow state it gives you so you could focus that energy on something else, a side project, wood working, chess,read a book, or even another video game.
I wouldn't call relaxing a "waste of time", but too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. The amount of physiological warfare waged against our attention span in this age is not something humans are built for, so cut yourself some slack.
I wouldn't call relaxing a "waste of time", but too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. The amount of physiological warfare waged against our attention span in this age is not something humans are built for, so cut yourself some slack.
You should check out Gabor Mate (there are many good interviews on youtube) to understand the nature of addicting, especially as it pertains to things beyond drugs and alcohol. The high level summary is that addiction is usually less about the specific vice than it is a tool that helps you disconnect and find relief from inner turmoil and/or anxiety. The best thing you can do is to let yourself become open and curious about yourself and what you're going through from a holistic point of view, and then think about how you want to heal.
Part joke part truth: become a game developer. Since I started to make games I spend much less time playing them. Also sometimes I just have to play more diverse set of games to use them reference for my game design job.
Okay now here is serious note.
> Is it possible to have a "healthy" amount of playing?
Talking from experience - even without taking real drugs into account it's certainly possible to get "unhealthy" amount of anything: reading or listening books / podcasts, or digging into Linux, or even swimming.
Instead of "fighting" some "gaming addiction" you need to try find other interests be it front of PC and in real life. Make it a goal to find something else that also make you happy be it books, DIY, sport or social danding.
Once you have healthy number of interests other than games then not wasting all your life on single thing become so much easier. My personal take on issue of addiction is super simple:
1 - First of all I have a queue of all interesting things I wish to do: films, series, anime, books, podcasts and games. And I add things to this queue once I find something that make me curious.
2 - Also I have a rule to go and check some new things from said queue so I don't stick to one single thing for way too long.
3 - And when it's come to games I also try to honestly ask myself "Am I really enjoying every second of it?" Because some games specifically design to take you into grinding and enjoyment-frustration loop. So why continue to play if game no longer make you feel good?
I understand that some people might have worse problems with self-control than I, but I hope this small piece of my own experience will help someone!
Okay now here is serious note.
> Is it possible to have a "healthy" amount of playing?
Talking from experience - even without taking real drugs into account it's certainly possible to get "unhealthy" amount of anything: reading or listening books / podcasts, or digging into Linux, or even swimming.
Instead of "fighting" some "gaming addiction" you need to try find other interests be it front of PC and in real life. Make it a goal to find something else that also make you happy be it books, DIY, sport or social danding.
Once you have healthy number of interests other than games then not wasting all your life on single thing become so much easier. My personal take on issue of addiction is super simple:
1 - First of all I have a queue of all interesting things I wish to do: films, series, anime, books, podcasts and games. And I add things to this queue once I find something that make me curious.
2 - Also I have a rule to go and check some new things from said queue so I don't stick to one single thing for way too long.
3 - And when it's come to games I also try to honestly ask myself "Am I really enjoying every second of it?" Because some games specifically design to take you into grinding and enjoyment-frustration loop. So why continue to play if game no longer make you feel good?
I understand that some people might have worse problems with self-control than I, but I hope this small piece of my own experience will help someone!
> Part joke part truth: become a game developer. Since I started to make games I spend much less time playing them. Also sometimes I just have to play more diverse set of games to use them reference for my game design job.
I played an unhealthy amount of video games through college, to the point where it affected my grades, and for a few years after graduation. My first job was not in game development, but was extremely gaming-adjacent (3D graphics drivers), where end-of-day QA-testing our latest software improvements would often turn into office-wide Quake deathmatches. I tried the "queue of interesting things" you mentioned, but sadly realized the other things on the list were also problematic: films, tv series, anime, etc. are just another form of "media consumption" which was the root addiction. At some point, I staged a self-intervention and admitted that media consumption, including video games, would not improve me and would not make me an interesting person. Coming to this realization helped me to set all that aside and start doing more meaningful things like dating a girlfriend (later marrying), going back to school for a graduate degree, switching to less passive hobbies, and so on. It also enabled me 20 years later to not get involved with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and all those other pointless media-consumption time-sucks that we have today. These days, I have so many worthwhile things going on that I literally have no time for a gaming or media addiction.
I played an unhealthy amount of video games through college, to the point where it affected my grades, and for a few years after graduation. My first job was not in game development, but was extremely gaming-adjacent (3D graphics drivers), where end-of-day QA-testing our latest software improvements would often turn into office-wide Quake deathmatches. I tried the "queue of interesting things" you mentioned, but sadly realized the other things on the list were also problematic: films, tv series, anime, etc. are just another form of "media consumption" which was the root addiction. At some point, I staged a self-intervention and admitted that media consumption, including video games, would not improve me and would not make me an interesting person. Coming to this realization helped me to set all that aside and start doing more meaningful things like dating a girlfriend (later marrying), going back to school for a graduate degree, switching to less passive hobbies, and so on. It also enabled me 20 years later to not get involved with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and all those other pointless media-consumption time-sucks that we have today. These days, I have so many worthwhile things going on that I literally have no time for a gaming or media addiction.
It's great that you found your own happiness elsewhere in life, but for me games are essential part of my personality. They're as important as traveling and my family. Even if I only actually play something once a month.
Also I'm not offering to replace gaming with just media consumption. Of course it's better to have diverse interests in life like side-projects, education, sport, social dancing, hiking, social or political activism, etc.
But if for some reason person is addicted to media consumption and okay with it then they can at least consume some high quality content instead of "junk food". For several years I've been literally addicted to fantasy books and listened for like 100+ of them. I have no regrets about it.
Also I'm not offering to replace gaming with just media consumption. Of course it's better to have diverse interests in life like side-projects, education, sport, social dancing, hiking, social or political activism, etc.
But if for some reason person is addicted to media consumption and okay with it then they can at least consume some high quality content instead of "junk food". For several years I've been literally addicted to fantasy books and listened for like 100+ of them. I have no regrets about it.
Which worthwhile things?
> Is it possible to have a "healthy" amount of playing? Let's say just a couple of hours in the weekends?
There's a certain online 2d pubg clone, which I won't name, with an average session length of just around 3 minutes (depending on how fast you die, ~10m if you win). Pure skill, no ladder progression. Let me tell you, even after hitting my skill ceiling, I think I would still find it very hard to play "just a few hours on the weekend." When I start playing it, I keep playing it. When I have a free minute, I have an urge to play it. If a game is addicting, it is simply that: addicting. You either play it or you don't. And I will say it again: there's no ladder, no meaningful reward system, no resource grind, just a simple top-down shooter. And it's still hard to just limit my time playing it: after you die, you just click join again. A fresh start. I have gone cold turkey out on it, it was too time consuming.
Not saying it couldn't be possible, though, but I surely have a preference for campaign-oriented games for this reason. When you finish it, you are just done. It takes a continous, possibly long, chunk of time, but at least you know there's an end. And there's more you can experience. There's a many of games beatable in under a 50-hour timeframe, and when you are done, you feel like you have had a meaningful experience, gained fond memories with no regret. There isn't a shit-ton, but there are surely some.
Maybe something like a strategy game against AI could be different, I don't really know. Or, hey, an occasional lan party with friends? The lan-party interaction is much more fun, in my experience, though it rarely happens. And not like you wanna keep playing the game against bots after that.
But I do think the choice of a game makes a big difference.
There's a certain online 2d pubg clone, which I won't name, with an average session length of just around 3 minutes (depending on how fast you die, ~10m if you win). Pure skill, no ladder progression. Let me tell you, even after hitting my skill ceiling, I think I would still find it very hard to play "just a few hours on the weekend." When I start playing it, I keep playing it. When I have a free minute, I have an urge to play it. If a game is addicting, it is simply that: addicting. You either play it or you don't. And I will say it again: there's no ladder, no meaningful reward system, no resource grind, just a simple top-down shooter. And it's still hard to just limit my time playing it: after you die, you just click join again. A fresh start. I have gone cold turkey out on it, it was too time consuming.
Not saying it couldn't be possible, though, but I surely have a preference for campaign-oriented games for this reason. When you finish it, you are just done. It takes a continous, possibly long, chunk of time, but at least you know there's an end. And there's more you can experience. There's a many of games beatable in under a 50-hour timeframe, and when you are done, you feel like you have had a meaningful experience, gained fond memories with no regret. There isn't a shit-ton, but there are surely some.
Maybe something like a strategy game against AI could be different, I don't really know. Or, hey, an occasional lan party with friends? The lan-party interaction is much more fun, in my experience, though it rarely happens. And not like you wanna keep playing the game against bots after that.
But I do think the choice of a game makes a big difference.
Funny thing, I don't consider myself to be a "gamer" I had not touched video games since high school and I'm now mid 30s.
It was just this particular game that hooked me up. And yes the problem is the ladder system which makes it never-ending. There is always another human of about your same level range to play with, available with just a click.
It was just this particular game that hooked me up. And yes the problem is the ladder system which makes it never-ending. There is always another human of about your same level range to play with, available with just a click.
Yeah, it is was the same with the game I played: no waiting time, just click away and play. There's no way to break the loop.
Well, gaming is for everyone, that's what I think. Given a person, you can find or build an appealing enough game for her to enjoy it. Well, barring stigma-aversion, prejudice, etc.
Seriously, though, try some single-player games. Max Payne 2, Machinarium, Fallout 1/2/3/New Vegas, Planescape Torment. My view on this is: deversify your experiences; there's a certain limit on how much you should play a single game for your own good, because at some point the experience becomes more miserable than positive.
Well, gaming is for everyone, that's what I think. Given a person, you can find or build an appealing enough game for her to enjoy it. Well, barring stigma-aversion, prejudice, etc.
Seriously, though, try some single-player games. Max Payne 2, Machinarium, Fallout 1/2/3/New Vegas, Planescape Torment. My view on this is: deversify your experiences; there's a certain limit on how much you should play a single game for your own good, because at some point the experience becomes more miserable than positive.
I cold-turkey quit multiplayer games in my late 20s because I just can't control myself. I think it's the only real option in this case.
Ideally you can find other things that bring you fulfillment which is easier said than done. I discovered that I could completely ween off gaming and Netflix by cycling between audiobooks and podcasts while I go for a walk or run. Sometimes I'll be gone for hours, and I'm quite happy with the habit because every part of it works towards my goals in life: learning new things and staying in shape. Meanwhile gaming worked against all my life ambitions: sitting for hours, credentializing in a system that brings me no lasting fulfillment.
Your post reminds me of what I went through when I decided to quit multiplayer gaming. After a few months I started asking myself if I could just do it a little bit instead of letting it consume me. But I think it was just my addicted side trying to justify giving it another shot. You might be doing that here.
Good luck.
Ideally you can find other things that bring you fulfillment which is easier said than done. I discovered that I could completely ween off gaming and Netflix by cycling between audiobooks and podcasts while I go for a walk or run. Sometimes I'll be gone for hours, and I'm quite happy with the habit because every part of it works towards my goals in life: learning new things and staying in shape. Meanwhile gaming worked against all my life ambitions: sitting for hours, credentializing in a system that brings me no lasting fulfillment.
Your post reminds me of what I went through when I decided to quit multiplayer gaming. After a few months I started asking myself if I could just do it a little bit instead of letting it consume me. But I think it was just my addicted side trying to justify giving it another shot. You might be doing that here.
Good luck.
Do something else.
I decided that I would learn guitar with my daughter instead of gaming. I'm not really any good, but I can pick up a guitar and play something. 17-year old me would be proud. It is definitely much cooler than whatever rank I had in Gears of War.
I also run and cycle. After a while gaming becomes less important because there are other things to do. You can definitely get 'into the zone' on a run... that's why people run. Achievements and challenges have existed in real life for a while already. You can feed your need for ranking (Strava), unlocking (buy new gear), and data-driven metrics that exist in games with other things in life.
Just do other things. Try different ones. After a while gaming becomes less important, and is no longer an addicition. It becomes something that you can enjoy in moderation in amongst your other activities.
I decided that I would learn guitar with my daughter instead of gaming. I'm not really any good, but I can pick up a guitar and play something. 17-year old me would be proud. It is definitely much cooler than whatever rank I had in Gears of War.
I also run and cycle. After a while gaming becomes less important because there are other things to do. You can definitely get 'into the zone' on a run... that's why people run. Achievements and challenges have existed in real life for a while already. You can feed your need for ranking (Strava), unlocking (buy new gear), and data-driven metrics that exist in games with other things in life.
Just do other things. Try different ones. After a while gaming becomes less important, and is no longer an addicition. It becomes something that you can enjoy in moderation in amongst your other activities.
That “flow state” you describe is honestly the thing I seek out most when playing games. It’s hard to find a game that generates the feeling for me, but once I do find one, I’m in heaven. The most recent game that managed to do this for me was Elden Ring, and I love it for that.
There is a fine line between addiction and simply enjoying a hobby. You need to identify where that is. We have a finite amount of time to work with in our lives, and how you allocate that is up to you. Once your hobbies start infringing on things you feel you should be prioritizing (e.g. friends, family, career), it’s time to reevaluate how much time you spend with that hobby. It’s entirely possible to have a healthy relationship with video games while still keeping up with your other obligations, you just need to be cognizant of your time.
There is a fine line between addiction and simply enjoying a hobby. You need to identify where that is. We have a finite amount of time to work with in our lives, and how you allocate that is up to you. Once your hobbies start infringing on things you feel you should be prioritizing (e.g. friends, family, career), it’s time to reevaluate how much time you spend with that hobby. It’s entirely possible to have a healthy relationship with video games while still keeping up with your other obligations, you just need to be cognizant of your time.
Sounds like Dota.
Dota was a serious addiction of mine. What helped me quit was getting rid of EVERYTHING that could trigger me to play.
- Uninstalling Steam - Deleting twitch account - Every time youtube would recommend me a dota video, I would mark it as "not interested" and "dont show this channel again" - Getting rid of my mouse. I gave my mouse to someone for a month for safekeeping. - Finding another stimuli that you deem less damaging. For me this was chess.
Video games can cause extreme addiction I know, but successfully quitting it is SO REWARDING. After almost 18 month I do not miss it even a little bit.
What also could help is telling everyone you know friends and family that you are quitting this game. Then you will be less inclined to fail because they will know about your failure. Try to not be alone in this journey.
Good luck.
Dota was a serious addiction of mine. What helped me quit was getting rid of EVERYTHING that could trigger me to play.
- Uninstalling Steam - Deleting twitch account - Every time youtube would recommend me a dota video, I would mark it as "not interested" and "dont show this channel again" - Getting rid of my mouse. I gave my mouse to someone for a month for safekeeping. - Finding another stimuli that you deem less damaging. For me this was chess.
Video games can cause extreme addiction I know, but successfully quitting it is SO REWARDING. After almost 18 month I do not miss it even a little bit.
What also could help is telling everyone you know friends and family that you are quitting this game. Then you will be less inclined to fail because they will know about your failure. Try to not be alone in this journey.
Good luck.
I am also somewhat of a dota addict. It's VERY addicting to play. Something that really helps me is thinking "I cannot play 'just one' game because then I'll play several." If I never play that first game then I don't get looped into a several hour session.
I was considering re installing the game and try to just play less hours, but you are right, it actually feels really rewarding even if it's just 4 months. I'll try to not install it again for more months
You wouldn't tell a recovering alcoholic to try to drink alcohol again but "drink less this time".
It took me a full two years of complete abstinence before I stopped feeling the pull. It was a much more powerful addiction than I realized - leaving a gaping black hole in my life that seemed to suck the life right out of me. It would come and go in powerful waves. I decided that I needed to fill that hole with something or I wasn't going to make it. So I took up studying Chess. This appealed to my competitive nature, and felt enough like a video game that it helped reduce the pull somewhat. Exercise was also instrumental. I often get weird looks when people hear about my experience, but the fact is, my video game addiction was destroying me.
This just sounds like an addict bargaining to me. Like an alcoholic trying to figure out if they can handle a glass of wine because they use to drink vodka.
You obviously can't have a healthy relationship with video games or else it would never come to posting this.
I mean one of the hardest things with beating any addiction long term after the initial battle is what to do with all the free time and the boredom.
I would think some kind of time consuming, non-digital hobby would be best as a replacement.
Maybe try reading too about other people going through gambling addictions or other types of non-substance addictions to see how what you are asking is almost stereotypical in a sense with addictions.
You obviously can't have a healthy relationship with video games or else it would never come to posting this.
I mean one of the hardest things with beating any addiction long term after the initial battle is what to do with all the free time and the boredom.
I would think some kind of time consuming, non-digital hobby would be best as a replacement.
Maybe try reading too about other people going through gambling addictions or other types of non-substance addictions to see how what you are asking is almost stereotypical in a sense with addictions.
Hey! Founder of The Ultimate Video Game Addiction Course [0], I've coached people through it, and about a decade ago I wracked up several thousand hours myself.
It's a really difficult issue to experience and the fact that you can face it and start to solve it is a huge step. Kudos to you.
Yes it's possible to play in moderation - I play poker and chess with friends. That said, I do my best to cut off anything if I see the warning signs of slipping back into bad habits.
Be VERY careful about watching games online - it's usually a powerful trigger.
For a few tactical pieces of advice for anyone who isn't "clean" yet:
- Changing the wiring in your brain takes time. Do your best to build new habits away from gaming each day, but know that it's unlikely to happen all at once.
- Take note of triggers (people, times of day, locations) and do what you can to remove them from your environment.
- Remove access as much as you can. If you can't do it all at once, set yourself smaller (regular) goals like being off of games for 30 mins, or for 4 hours, or for 1 day once per week. Eventually I did 1 year without a smartphone or a computer that could play games, and it really helped reset.
- You need to replace friends and activities you had with new ones outside of gaming. This takes a fair amount of work and time, but it's worth it. Self-improvement is a great area to focus on as it can give you the same sense of progression as games, and you'll meet great people. I also recommend team sports.
- Have a long hard look at anything that could be causing this escapism - it could be big and obvious, it could be subtle like a nagging stress from work, a mild existential anxiety, or one of a million other things. Journalling helps uncover this sort of thing.
- Embrace boredom. After the initial discomfort, you'll realise the boredom is not the worst thing in the world.
[0]: https://www.udemy.com/course/healthy-gaming/learn/?referralC...
It's a really difficult issue to experience and the fact that you can face it and start to solve it is a huge step. Kudos to you.
Yes it's possible to play in moderation - I play poker and chess with friends. That said, I do my best to cut off anything if I see the warning signs of slipping back into bad habits.
Be VERY careful about watching games online - it's usually a powerful trigger.
For a few tactical pieces of advice for anyone who isn't "clean" yet:
- Changing the wiring in your brain takes time. Do your best to build new habits away from gaming each day, but know that it's unlikely to happen all at once.
- Take note of triggers (people, times of day, locations) and do what you can to remove them from your environment.
- Remove access as much as you can. If you can't do it all at once, set yourself smaller (regular) goals like being off of games for 30 mins, or for 4 hours, or for 1 day once per week. Eventually I did 1 year without a smartphone or a computer that could play games, and it really helped reset.
- You need to replace friends and activities you had with new ones outside of gaming. This takes a fair amount of work and time, but it's worth it. Self-improvement is a great area to focus on as it can give you the same sense of progression as games, and you'll meet great people. I also recommend team sports.
- Have a long hard look at anything that could be causing this escapism - it could be big and obvious, it could be subtle like a nagging stress from work, a mild existential anxiety, or one of a million other things. Journalling helps uncover this sort of thing.
- Embrace boredom. After the initial discomfort, you'll realise the boredom is not the worst thing in the world.
[0]: https://www.udemy.com/course/healthy-gaming/learn/?referralC...
Did something similar here years ago with original Unreal Tournament. Spent up to 8 hours a day playing it on week days, 15-18 hours at weekends for two entire years. Just woke up one day, walked into the bathroom, stared at the mirror for about 5 minutes and asked myself what the hell I was doing. Waltzed into the bedroom where my PC was, uninstalled it and never played a game again. I think I was just "done" at that point.
Within 18 months I got a new job, moved out of home, was married and had a child so go figure at what you're missing out on and go and do that instead.
Within 18 months I got a new job, moved out of home, was married and had a child so go figure at what you're missing out on and go and do that instead.
Seems like 2 years is about the time it takes to wake up hehe
I felt my interest in gaming pretty much wane out the last few years. IMO what had happened was my communities of the games I was really invested in just died, because the games were a few years old at that point. By dead I mean the masses have left it, and what's left are the handful of pros in a clan who hop together on a single team and just stomp anyone stupid enough to join the brutally unbalanced server. Fun for them, sucked for me, so I lost interest in those games.
My single player games too I just ran out of stuff to do. You can only replay skyrim so many times, and nothing released since seems even half as good as skyrim. I couldn't even get into fallout 4 because I was ruined from the expectations set in new vegas. Elden ring seems like its there but I suck at souls games and I'm not looking to become a masochist.
My advice if you really want to long term get out of video games is to just let your collection grow stale. You will grow tired of the games you have and find some other things to do that eat up your time. With nothing new coming in hopefully you find yourself unfettered from video games at least eventually.
In the end I find that its really not video games but some deeper self discipline issue, since I can get into that 'flow state' you describe in a video game or on discussion forums even endlessly looking at stuff on ebay. I can easily fixate on just about anything.
My single player games too I just ran out of stuff to do. You can only replay skyrim so many times, and nothing released since seems even half as good as skyrim. I couldn't even get into fallout 4 because I was ruined from the expectations set in new vegas. Elden ring seems like its there but I suck at souls games and I'm not looking to become a masochist.
My advice if you really want to long term get out of video games is to just let your collection grow stale. You will grow tired of the games you have and find some other things to do that eat up your time. With nothing new coming in hopefully you find yourself unfettered from video games at least eventually.
In the end I find that its really not video games but some deeper self discipline issue, since I can get into that 'flow state' you describe in a video game or on discussion forums even endlessly looking at stuff on ebay. I can easily fixate on just about anything.
I can only recount my experience with FFXI, which in its original form was designed to be a tremendous time sink. It was hard an unforgiving and the amount time spent there was measured in years for me. I stopped when I noticed I basically cut off just about everything else in my life and I started to call in sick to camp specific mobs.
It is a different kind of addiction. It is psychological and, in a sense, a lot harder to break as the social component keeps you there.
What worked for me is just realizing that I can't go on like this forever and a cut off was necessary. I am not sure it is healthy, but I still participate in some events for other MMO type games ( races in POE for example ). It is hard, competitive and since I am not a top player, I end up satisfying my jonesing for a while. I guess I like punishment.
That said, the older I get, the more I see games as a distraction. I don't think it is a waste, as I do remember that distraction got me through some tough moments in life, but.. there is a time and place for everything.
In short, I can't really give a generic advice. People are different. See what works for you.
As an anecdote, I logged into my old FFXI account last year out of boredom. It was no longer the same. All the friends have moved on, difficulty and system changed beyond what I found acceptable; it was a nostalgia trip. I played for a week or so and I never renewed since.
It is a different kind of addiction. It is psychological and, in a sense, a lot harder to break as the social component keeps you there.
What worked for me is just realizing that I can't go on like this forever and a cut off was necessary. I am not sure it is healthy, but I still participate in some events for other MMO type games ( races in POE for example ). It is hard, competitive and since I am not a top player, I end up satisfying my jonesing for a while. I guess I like punishment.
That said, the older I get, the more I see games as a distraction. I don't think it is a waste, as I do remember that distraction got me through some tough moments in life, but.. there is a time and place for everything.
In short, I can't really give a generic advice. People are different. See what works for you.
As an anecdote, I logged into my old FFXI account last year out of boredom. It was no longer the same. All the friends have moved on, difficulty and system changed beyond what I found acceptable; it was a nostalgia trip. I played for a week or so and I never renewed since.
I was like that with the Civilization games; whenever I installed one I always ended up playing until dawn. For some reason they hook like no other game. Eventually I learned to uninstall it and leave it uninstalled. Too dangerous. Even engaging with content about the game is dangerous, as you found out.
There are plenty of other games to play that are still fun and won't be as addictive though. You could try a different multiplayer game or even stick to single player games if that's too much.
There are plenty of other games to play that are still fun and won't be as addictive though. You could try a different multiplayer game or even stick to single player games if that's too much.
One more turn. Ok after that Wonder is build. Well, shit a war started after that. Oh shit it's time to go to work...
Playing video game is truly fun, as long as you don't have the tendency to be addicted to it. Now that you've set yourself free, I suggest you never go back. But if you're 100% sure you can control yourself, why not. You can play once a week just so you can relax and entertain yourself.
I should understand so because I was also hooked into watching movies and TV series during lockdown. After that, I need to get back to my working routine and stay productive.
So good luck Volrath89!
I should understand so because I was also hooked into watching movies and TV series during lockdown. After that, I need to get back to my working routine and stay productive.
So good luck Volrath89!
AFAIK, video game systems often have parental controls. You could get your wife to set it up. For my kids, we use a combination of parental controls and reminding them to setup and respect their own timers to get them into the habit of being mindful of screen time limits.
My oldest still thinks about and wants to talk about games a lot while not playing, but he's gotten used to video game time limits and can spend his time in other activities without fuss.
My oldest still thinks about and wants to talk about games a lot while not playing, but he's gotten used to video game time limits and can spend his time in other activities without fuss.
Video games affect different people differently. The pattern of behavior you describe, that can be summarized as 'all or nothing gaming' approach is something I recognize through own experience.
The key is to have healthy dose of other activities that will prevent you from going 'all in' on games. Sports or travel come to mind.
And having children... Once you have kids, the days of your glorious gaming past will become a hazy, distant memory.
The key is to have healthy dose of other activities that will prevent you from going 'all in' on games. Sports or travel come to mind.
And having children... Once you have kids, the days of your glorious gaming past will become a hazy, distant memory.
I’m 34, love gaming, and have been married for 12 years with 3 kids. “Healthy” amount of play is playing as much as you want as long as your on track in accomplishing your short and long term goals.
In addition, you need to make sure your wife’s expectations are being met daily. My wife lets me spend my time however I want as long as I’m clearly communicating my efforts in meeting her expectations, both in the short and long term.
In addition, you need to make sure your wife’s expectations are being met daily. My wife lets me spend my time however I want as long as I’m clearly communicating my efforts in meeting her expectations, both in the short and long term.
Sorry if this comment sounds out of place, there is not bad intention from me... but do you also have a daily set of short and long term expectations for your wife and does she meet them as diligently as you seem to meet her expectations of you?
Yes, but don’t expect perfection. That’s dangerous. My generally rule is, however many hours I’m putting into the pursuits of life, my spouse should be equally putting in those hours.
You and your spouse are a team. If your both smart and want the same things, you both should be able to figure out a routine that you both can tolerate that also achieves what each of you want. It’s both give and take.
You and your spouse are a team. If your both smart and want the same things, you both should be able to figure out a routine that you both can tolerate that also achieves what each of you want. It’s both give and take.
Acquire other (more productive/creative) hobbies/activities which excite/interest you enough to channel that same energy/focus.
I had this problem with EverQuest for a while, and other MMOs/Open-World games, then "virtual world" software (OpenSim/Second Life/InWorldz) that I was semi-addicted to led me to a (revived from olden days) interest in programming/scripting, and a (newly rekindled) interest in 3D modeling/graphics which at first I had learned for the sake of creating content for the virtual world and other game engines. I just used that interest in those "new" hobbies to start finding "excuses" to do more productive things and learn further skills around those interests which sucked up enough of my time and focus that the games simply no longer held the same sway that they once did over my attention.
Now that I've honed those skills somewhat, I'm moving into learning the Godot game engine, in hopes of creating my own amusements and tools with those skills. :)
I had this problem with EverQuest for a while, and other MMOs/Open-World games, then "virtual world" software (OpenSim/Second Life/InWorldz) that I was semi-addicted to led me to a (revived from olden days) interest in programming/scripting, and a (newly rekindled) interest in 3D modeling/graphics which at first I had learned for the sake of creating content for the virtual world and other game engines. I just used that interest in those "new" hobbies to start finding "excuses" to do more productive things and learn further skills around those interests which sucked up enough of my time and focus that the games simply no longer held the same sway that they once did over my attention.
Now that I've honed those skills somewhat, I'm moving into learning the Godot game engine, in hopes of creating my own amusements and tools with those skills. :)
It is possible. Civ 5 had an option to display game-play time. This was all I needed to avoid really long sessions. It would be great if all games had this option, as most games go full-screen obscuring the system clock.
The alternative is to put a physical clock where you can see it by only shifting your eyes.
That said, I don't play games anymore. If I did try them again, I would want a visible clock.
The alternative is to put a physical clock where you can see it by only shifting your eyes.
That said, I don't play games anymore. If I did try them again, I would want a visible clock.
Game addiction is a multi-year struggle for me that comes and goes. At one point I even set limits for myself using Blizzard's excellent parental controls, but even then I found myself disabling them when I was convinced that I just deserved 'a little bit more' gaming to offset a hard day, and then would forget to re-enable them again. I recently deliberately locked myself out of my Steam account, by changing the password to a random string and giving that to my partner to keep safe. So far that's worked: I haven't just gone and found another non-Steam game to play. But we'll see how long it lasts.
I totally identify with what you say about being able to focus on the game to the exclusion of everything else. The world is difficult to cope with, and games are beautifully, seductively, easy.
Congratulations on your four months clean. I hope that you find something else in life that provides the same flow state, but without the addiction.
I totally identify with what you say about being able to focus on the game to the exclusion of everything else. The world is difficult to cope with, and games are beautifully, seductively, easy.
Congratulations on your four months clean. I hope that you find something else in life that provides the same flow state, but without the addiction.
I feel like if you put 2000 hours into anything you'll be able to get into flow states with it. Seems like a "right brain" feeling-reaction loop than a "left brain" thinking-evaluating loop.
Find a skill you want to build and track the hours you spend doing it. If you don't think you'll get there after 500, try something else.
Find a skill you want to build and track the hours you spend doing it. If you don't think you'll get there after 500, try something else.
I have had this issue. I found a game and played straight for a month, almost all day and I wasted so much time and lost opportunities that I sold all my in game resources and did what you did, canceled and uninstalled everything.
I was good until a couple weeks ago. (I had almost 10 years of staying away) And I have found my self control is greatly enhanced, but also maybe because I truly care more about time with my wife and family. I have had a few late nights where I over did it, but I am very close to uninstalling it again because of this.
I am a big believer in "I am the problem" viewpoint, so if it's not a game it will be something else, and I need to change me, not the activity. I think this applies to all inherently non-destructive activities that people get addicted to. (ie, watching tv isn't destructive a little at a time, but binge watching for days straight is...)
I was good until a couple weeks ago. (I had almost 10 years of staying away) And I have found my self control is greatly enhanced, but also maybe because I truly care more about time with my wife and family. I have had a few late nights where I over did it, but I am very close to uninstalling it again because of this.
I am a big believer in "I am the problem" viewpoint, so if it's not a game it will be something else, and I need to change me, not the activity. I think this applies to all inherently non-destructive activities that people get addicted to. (ie, watching tv isn't destructive a little at a time, but binge watching for days straight is...)
> Is it possible to have a "healthy" amount of playing?
I can't do it. I've been trying for years. I don't consider myself a gamer as I don't play games for a hobby like most people. I see games coming out and I'm not interested in them, gaming per se doesn't interest me but let me tell you something, there are a few games that I would play 24/7.
So what do I do? No matter what I don't play them. Well, actually I do but not alone, only with friends. If I can't coop with someone I don't play. This is tricky too because if you have many friends playing at all hour you'll find someone to play with, so keep your number of gaming buddies low. Play with your wife a couple times a week, have fun, enjoy yourselves, then leave the game until the next time.
It's certainly possible to have a healthy relationship with video (or other) games. But a lot of online games do a lot of unhealthy hooks.
Daily bonuses, Skinner box positive feedback, inflexible scheduled events that are 'important', etc.
There can be a lot of socialization and community which can be a positive (although if many people in the group are making poor life choices, I dunno).
All that said, I prefer offline games where there's still a motivation to improve skills to do better, and sometimes a grind to get better equipment/more levels, but if it gets too grindy, it feels like work and I stop. Sometimes, I stay up too late and have a disagreeable day the next day, and that inspires me to be stronger about stopping at a reasonable time for the next session. And there's no penalty for waiting until I catch up on sleep before I play again.
Daily bonuses, Skinner box positive feedback, inflexible scheduled events that are 'important', etc.
There can be a lot of socialization and community which can be a positive (although if many people in the group are making poor life choices, I dunno).
All that said, I prefer offline games where there's still a motivation to improve skills to do better, and sometimes a grind to get better equipment/more levels, but if it gets too grindy, it feels like work and I stop. Sometimes, I stay up too late and have a disagreeable day the next day, and that inspires me to be stronger about stopping at a reasonable time for the next session. And there's no penalty for waiting until I catch up on sleep before I play again.
Dual boot windows and Linux with separate drives. Lock your windows drive in a timelock safe and have it only open on Fridays or whenever you want it to open, biweekly even. Or Thursdays when you have a game session with your friends.
When you get the urge to game you need to do one of:
* install windows and games from scratch on a new drive
* get gaming working on Linux( good luck)
* get an angle grinder to bust open the safe
* drive to your friends house and get the backup physical keys
With these barriers, I almost never bust out the windows hard drive for gaming.
I do the same thing with beer.
This technique mostly works for me.
--
This is a psychological technique called "pre-committing".
https://www.amazon.com/Genie-Hand-Time-Lock-Safe/dp/B00NFIDT...
When you get the urge to game you need to do one of:
* install windows and games from scratch on a new drive
* get gaming working on Linux( good luck)
* get an angle grinder to bust open the safe
* drive to your friends house and get the backup physical keys
With these barriers, I almost never bust out the windows hard drive for gaming.
I do the same thing with beer.
This technique mostly works for me.
--
This is a psychological technique called "pre-committing".
https://www.amazon.com/Genie-Hand-Time-Lock-Safe/dp/B00NFIDT...
I have the exact opposite problem. I own at least a dozen game consoles and a gaming PC, and have a huge attach rate for all of them. Games look fun and interesting to me, I watch reviews and follow industry news and get hyped for new games etc, but I spend very little time actually playing them. I rarely spend more than 60 minutes playing a game before I get this weird mix of boredom and anxiety, like the contrivance of the game becomes highly apparent and I feel like I should be doing something else. Despite owning literally hundreds of games, I can count the number of games I've beat/completed on both my hands. I'm nearly 40, married with kids, but this behavior dates back to when I was a youth/teen and had loads of free time.
When I was younger I asked my parents to buy me the Play Station 2 and a couple of games and realized it actually wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. So I didn't buy another console ever again.
But this game hit something in my brain that made me so addicted to it. As I said, maybe the flow, maybe the competitiveness, the ladder, or a combination of them all.
But this game hit something in my brain that made me so addicted to it. As I said, maybe the flow, maybe the competitiveness, the ladder, or a combination of them all.
Personally I've blocked reddit on my pihole when I'm working and want to force myself to not get distracted (e.g., it's too easy to "just check it for a minute" while waiting for something to build or download, etc.). Of course I'm here, but I find HN less addictive and tend to waste less time here.
You may find doing something similar - block the main domain for your game at your router. Of course it's easy to undo but it's yet another check that you place against yourself so you don't revert to old behaviors.
If you find yourself getting into the same habits but playing/doing something else instead you should think about what is causing you to get into those habits. Maybe talk to a therapist or someone else in your life for help.
You may find doing something similar - block the main domain for your game at your router. Of course it's easy to undo but it's yet another check that you place against yourself so you don't revert to old behaviors.
If you find yourself getting into the same habits but playing/doing something else instead you should think about what is causing you to get into those habits. Maybe talk to a therapist or someone else in your life for help.
interesting idea about blocking reddit...
I used to play a lot of videogames (specifically LoL but also any big anticipated titles I was interested in). I think for me it was for a few reasons:
* I had far, far less stuff to do. I was in an easy degree path without a job, and surrounded myself with people in similar circumstances, so I had time to play games for 6-8 hours a day and a wealth of validation from my peers.
* When I wasn't playing games, it was to do other things that I was either obligated to do (schoolwork), or that also had an element of skill progression (music), or that were social activities (also music).
* I had no real need to remain available on short notice for anybody or anything, so unpausable games with 40+ minute match times were easy to fit into my life.
When I started working as a SWE, suddenly most of that stuff was no longer true, and in the USA no one looks at someone who works 8+ hours a day as a degenerate. So I'd wear myself out doing that, and constantly read up on bettering myself as a programmer. Being good at competitive videogames started to become less and less of my identity, and it was supplanted by becoming better at my job and finding financial success. That addicted me in its own right (I used to also spend way too much time watching lines go up on stock trading apps, though thankfully I've managed to curb that too).
During my busiest time (working + master's + in a relationship + fostering kittens), I went weeks/months without ever touching a videogame. I'd still read about them or watch videos, but I always felt like there was something either better or more important for me to do at any given time.
It helps too that the social aspect of LoL for me was also dying at the time. The people I played with were on less and less, and I was also getting fed up of the game's formula after so many years.
Sometimes you can't help but have a bad addiction and need to go cold turkey, but for games that don't have such an addictive quality I find that just having a lot to do at any given time helps curb my tendencies to binge.
* I had far, far less stuff to do. I was in an easy degree path without a job, and surrounded myself with people in similar circumstances, so I had time to play games for 6-8 hours a day and a wealth of validation from my peers.
* When I wasn't playing games, it was to do other things that I was either obligated to do (schoolwork), or that also had an element of skill progression (music), or that were social activities (also music).
* I had no real need to remain available on short notice for anybody or anything, so unpausable games with 40+ minute match times were easy to fit into my life.
When I started working as a SWE, suddenly most of that stuff was no longer true, and in the USA no one looks at someone who works 8+ hours a day as a degenerate. So I'd wear myself out doing that, and constantly read up on bettering myself as a programmer. Being good at competitive videogames started to become less and less of my identity, and it was supplanted by becoming better at my job and finding financial success. That addicted me in its own right (I used to also spend way too much time watching lines go up on stock trading apps, though thankfully I've managed to curb that too).
During my busiest time (working + master's + in a relationship + fostering kittens), I went weeks/months without ever touching a videogame. I'd still read about them or watch videos, but I always felt like there was something either better or more important for me to do at any given time.
It helps too that the social aspect of LoL for me was also dying at the time. The people I played with were on less and less, and I was also getting fed up of the game's formula after so many years.
Sometimes you can't help but have a bad addiction and need to go cold turkey, but for games that don't have such an addictive quality I find that just having a lot to do at any given time helps curb my tendencies to binge.
> Is it possible to have a "healthy" amount of playing? Let's say just a couple of hours in the weekends?
Yes, depending on the individual. I relate to your story, and my advice to my past self, now that I've practice going longer without things I feel compelled to do (consuming alcohol, caffeine, mindlessly eating food to avoid emotions), is to intentionally (or accidentally, but that needs luck) take a break to unhook the brainstem and gain perspective. Sounds like you've done that (four months off). In my case, the urge to get lost in videogame-land is annual, and I'm able to enjoy gaming again, sometimes teetering on the brink of the event horizon, with the understanding that if I burn hot I'll burn out and move on. This happened recently; played intensely for a month, accepting the book will end and I'll be free again, and enjoying the journey, no regrets (except the twinge of "I could have read so many books instead", countered by "my day job is so exhausting, this indulgence is maintenance-mode paving the way for growth").
Regarding feeling of flow, Blindboy spoke of it somewhat recently on his podcast (he also streams himself composing music while playing Red Dead Redemption 2, showing the audience his creative process and a healthier flow-state), noting that while videogames give us a sense of accomplishment it is too often a hollow one, far surpassed by creative flow. Minecraft and the like are exceptions, perhaps? I have enjoyable memories of the places I've made in that game.
Setting barriers for myself, as you've done, has been helpful, but I may not respect myself enough to have the barriers be fully effective--if I'm not pausing and choosing my next steps wisely, I can easily fall in.
It has taken me years to have the healthier view I have now, and I have a lot of work yet to do (not obligatory to improve, but the path helps me have a sense of meaning). Guidance from childhood friends, who I keep in touch with via games, has helped. For awhile I'd quit all videogames except for multiplayer with them, so it's a bit messy but we can talk about the challenges and our friendship is deeper than gaming, so that helps.
Practicing breathing (inspired by Breath, by James Nestor) has helped me make better choices in the moment. Still a work in progress.
Doing one thing at a time helps, too; sometimes I feel the pull of wanting to consume media while cleaning up after dinner, and I decide not to, and I thank myself for it afterwards.
I hope this ramble helps. Good luck!
Yes, depending on the individual. I relate to your story, and my advice to my past self, now that I've practice going longer without things I feel compelled to do (consuming alcohol, caffeine, mindlessly eating food to avoid emotions), is to intentionally (or accidentally, but that needs luck) take a break to unhook the brainstem and gain perspective. Sounds like you've done that (four months off). In my case, the urge to get lost in videogame-land is annual, and I'm able to enjoy gaming again, sometimes teetering on the brink of the event horizon, with the understanding that if I burn hot I'll burn out and move on. This happened recently; played intensely for a month, accepting the book will end and I'll be free again, and enjoying the journey, no regrets (except the twinge of "I could have read so many books instead", countered by "my day job is so exhausting, this indulgence is maintenance-mode paving the way for growth").
Regarding feeling of flow, Blindboy spoke of it somewhat recently on his podcast (he also streams himself composing music while playing Red Dead Redemption 2, showing the audience his creative process and a healthier flow-state), noting that while videogames give us a sense of accomplishment it is too often a hollow one, far surpassed by creative flow. Minecraft and the like are exceptions, perhaps? I have enjoyable memories of the places I've made in that game.
Setting barriers for myself, as you've done, has been helpful, but I may not respect myself enough to have the barriers be fully effective--if I'm not pausing and choosing my next steps wisely, I can easily fall in.
It has taken me years to have the healthier view I have now, and I have a lot of work yet to do (not obligatory to improve, but the path helps me have a sense of meaning). Guidance from childhood friends, who I keep in touch with via games, has helped. For awhile I'd quit all videogames except for multiplayer with them, so it's a bit messy but we can talk about the challenges and our friendship is deeper than gaming, so that helps.
Practicing breathing (inspired by Breath, by James Nestor) has helped me make better choices in the moment. Still a work in progress.
Doing one thing at a time helps, too; sometimes I feel the pull of wanting to consume media while cleaning up after dinner, and I decide not to, and I thank myself for it afterwards.
I hope this ramble helps. Good luck!
I gamified "real life" by using task tracking apps like Todoist. The dopamine hit from completing a real task was like that given by completing a quest in a game. Completed changed my relationship with gaming to a much healthier one.
I can't handle those sorts of skill/ladder games. They demand too much time to keep up your skill and are clearly addicting. Personally I've found music to play a similar role in bringing that "flow state". Find a practical hobby where your time and effort result in something material rather than digital AND has the added benefit of being sharable with others.
I still enjoy videogames but I essentially only play:
I still enjoy videogames but I essentially only play:
- In person co-op games with friends (smash, mario kart, etc.)
- Challenging single player games (souls-like) where I set a timer somewhere between 30-60 minutes and force myself to stop at the end.Kudos to you in sharing your story, and congrats on your 4-month "sobriety"!
My youngest son actually had to go to a detox program for video games (in the Seattle area). It didn't entirely remove the addictive behavior patterns, but he's much more self-aware in his struggles.
One positive thing did come out during his stay there - he was officially diagnosed with ASD (which we always suspected, but he had other learning challenges that seemed more pressing). I wish we had gotten him more accomodations when he was in school - which would have been easier with the official diagnoses.
My youngest son actually had to go to a detox program for video games (in the Seattle area). It didn't entirely remove the addictive behavior patterns, but he's much more self-aware in his struggles.
One positive thing did come out during his stay there - he was officially diagnosed with ASD (which we always suspected, but he had other learning challenges that seemed more pressing). I wish we had gotten him more accomodations when he was in school - which would have been easier with the official diagnoses.
For Lent, my family fasts all screens. We normally don't make it the 40 days, but it really helps to reevaluate your screen usage this way, once a year.
Married, Adult Children, 40's, Life long gamer
So my yearly hours spent gaming would probably be double yours as it is the primary recreation activity for both my wife and I. We game together most nights and when we aren't gaming together we are likely gaming separate.
My first suggestion would be to game with your SO, games are social activities. Warped perceptions aside there is nothing wrong with engaging in virtual social activities. Granted not everyone's SO will want to game.
Second, like me it sounds like you may have an addictive / competitive personality. Bad news there are a number of gaming genres that are designed to take advantage of you. Just like some people can go to a casino with $200 spend it and leave some people can't. Games with ladders, brackets, dailies and other FOMO based engagement tactics may just be off the table. Good news there are a wealth of games that don't try and exploit their players psychology to drive engagement. Many of these are single and double A games but I haven't run out of non AAA non Live Service games to try. I had a spell where I played a bunch of mobile clickey games and realized it wasn't fun; it was compulsion. I was logging in resetting timers and getting a dopamine hit. I just had to decide to not engage anymore.
Three, leisure is not irrelevant. mental health has strong ties to physical health and well being beyond just being good for you. Spending an hour focused on a game isn't irrelevant if you come out the other side rested, refreshed, unwound, etc. I play games like Oxygen Not Included where I spend hours building little irrelevant machines and systems but it clears my mind, relaxes me and allows me to focus on other things later.
Four, maybe don't engage with YouTube and Twitch content for the game. You will never keep up with professionals. Even if you have the skill you don't have the time. Watching pro's can make you feel like you are playing wrong, you aren't good enough when in reality no one who isn't spending 8-12 hours a day will ever be that good. If you are having fun however you are playing is the right way. This is another FOMO trap. You won't be ninja, shroud, etc. be happy with what you are.
My thoughts. YMMV
So my yearly hours spent gaming would probably be double yours as it is the primary recreation activity for both my wife and I. We game together most nights and when we aren't gaming together we are likely gaming separate.
My first suggestion would be to game with your SO, games are social activities. Warped perceptions aside there is nothing wrong with engaging in virtual social activities. Granted not everyone's SO will want to game.
Second, like me it sounds like you may have an addictive / competitive personality. Bad news there are a number of gaming genres that are designed to take advantage of you. Just like some people can go to a casino with $200 spend it and leave some people can't. Games with ladders, brackets, dailies and other FOMO based engagement tactics may just be off the table. Good news there are a wealth of games that don't try and exploit their players psychology to drive engagement. Many of these are single and double A games but I haven't run out of non AAA non Live Service games to try. I had a spell where I played a bunch of mobile clickey games and realized it wasn't fun; it was compulsion. I was logging in resetting timers and getting a dopamine hit. I just had to decide to not engage anymore.
Three, leisure is not irrelevant. mental health has strong ties to physical health and well being beyond just being good for you. Spending an hour focused on a game isn't irrelevant if you come out the other side rested, refreshed, unwound, etc. I play games like Oxygen Not Included where I spend hours building little irrelevant machines and systems but it clears my mind, relaxes me and allows me to focus on other things later.
Four, maybe don't engage with YouTube and Twitch content for the game. You will never keep up with professionals. Even if you have the skill you don't have the time. Watching pro's can make you feel like you are playing wrong, you aren't good enough when in reality no one who isn't spending 8-12 hours a day will ever be that good. If you are having fun however you are playing is the right way. This is another FOMO trap. You won't be ninja, shroud, etc. be happy with what you are.
My thoughts. YMMV
Similar circumstances & taken a similar path.
Embracing that I’m a gamer was a big help, I now tell people that as part of my identity.
Selecting games carefully is a big deal. I have one competitive game: Legends of Runeterra. The rest are single player, co-op, or sandbox games like Minecraft.
Playing with my SO is great, sometimes we game side by side in whatever game we want. It’s a feeling of closeness like reading together.
I’ve been designing games since I was 8, but never made it a career. Gaming & what I’ve learned from designing them has served me very well.
I also share the fears of OP. I often given entire weekends to gaming. I’m choosing to see those fears as an indication that I want experiences other than gaming, so now my SO & I go hiking every morning.
One thing I know for sure, I don’t want to live a life “fighting addiction.” I’d rather embrace what works for me today, develop as a person, and see how I can diversify my experiences in a gentle way.
Embracing that I’m a gamer was a big help, I now tell people that as part of my identity.
Selecting games carefully is a big deal. I have one competitive game: Legends of Runeterra. The rest are single player, co-op, or sandbox games like Minecraft.
Playing with my SO is great, sometimes we game side by side in whatever game we want. It’s a feeling of closeness like reading together.
I’ve been designing games since I was 8, but never made it a career. Gaming & what I’ve learned from designing them has served me very well.
I also share the fears of OP. I often given entire weekends to gaming. I’m choosing to see those fears as an indication that I want experiences other than gaming, so now my SO & I go hiking every morning.
One thing I know for sure, I don’t want to live a life “fighting addiction.” I’d rather embrace what works for me today, develop as a person, and see how I can diversify my experiences in a gentle way.
My SO is not into games at all unfortunately...
Yes I know leisure is not irrelevant, I'm now trying to get into sports. Cycling and Squash. I like both and I'm pretty sure it will be super healthy if I can stick to them.
Yes, those 2000 hours in my original post don't include all the hours spent in youtube/twitch. Which were a lot.
Yes I know leisure is not irrelevant, I'm now trying to get into sports. Cycling and Squash. I like both and I'm pretty sure it will be super healthy if I can stick to them.
Yes, those 2000 hours in my original post don't include all the hours spent in youtube/twitch. Which were a lot.
Funny that you post this. I'm having the EXACT same issue and the way I decided to handle it is it restrict myself to weekends. Usually, I would do exactly what you did. Uninstall everything, unsubscribe, etc. I feel like I'm an extreme person so whenever I do something I go all in.
Same issue as you, ladder really made me want to play. I was top 11 in NA and in terms of my rank I was top 0.01%. People in the game would always invite me and constantly want to play with me. It's super rewarding being super good at something.
The issue is, with these competitive games, is that they take everything away from you and make your life unbalanced. I don't have an answer from you, apart from quitting entirely seemed like the wrong approach to me. At the end of the day, you're playing the game for a reason, it brings you joy in some way, and this week of not playing taught me that I love everything else in life and I also want to continue to play competitively, it just needs to be balanced (so weekends only.)
If weekends only lead to me also playing throughout the week, then I'm going to cut it off entirely, but for now, I think a balanced approach is best.
Thinking about why I play really helped me and not playing during the week reminded me of why I love the game and hate the game at the same time. I hate the game because everything in my life is better right now, work, relationship, body, stress levels, etc. You would be surprised how much energy your mind exerts being the best at a game.
The reason I love the game reminds me that life is so boring sometimes, I was just watching random YouTube videos and such as they're nothing compared to being the top 0.01% of a game. The ups, the downs, the competitiveness, the feeling of finally getting to the top of the game is unreal. The fact that the game just takes you out of reality, no thinking about work stresses, relationship stresses, it's just all magically gone. Your mind is just on a 1 way track to winning in the game. Amazing. Life is so short, sometimes it's great to get away.
I don't have an answer for you really, we're in the same spot. I hope we find a balance between playing our games and living our lives. Harmony. It's the only way, or you're sacrificing something :)
Same issue as you, ladder really made me want to play. I was top 11 in NA and in terms of my rank I was top 0.01%. People in the game would always invite me and constantly want to play with me. It's super rewarding being super good at something.
The issue is, with these competitive games, is that they take everything away from you and make your life unbalanced. I don't have an answer from you, apart from quitting entirely seemed like the wrong approach to me. At the end of the day, you're playing the game for a reason, it brings you joy in some way, and this week of not playing taught me that I love everything else in life and I also want to continue to play competitively, it just needs to be balanced (so weekends only.)
If weekends only lead to me also playing throughout the week, then I'm going to cut it off entirely, but for now, I think a balanced approach is best.
Thinking about why I play really helped me and not playing during the week reminded me of why I love the game and hate the game at the same time. I hate the game because everything in my life is better right now, work, relationship, body, stress levels, etc. You would be surprised how much energy your mind exerts being the best at a game.
The reason I love the game reminds me that life is so boring sometimes, I was just watching random YouTube videos and such as they're nothing compared to being the top 0.01% of a game. The ups, the downs, the competitiveness, the feeling of finally getting to the top of the game is unreal. The fact that the game just takes you out of reality, no thinking about work stresses, relationship stresses, it's just all magically gone. Your mind is just on a 1 way track to winning in the game. Amazing. Life is so short, sometimes it's great to get away.
I don't have an answer for you really, we're in the same spot. I hope we find a balance between playing our games and living our lives. Harmony. It's the only way, or you're sacrificing something :)
But how can you manage to restrict yourself to play only on the weekends?
For me as a fully remote software dev, just after the daily was over and nobody needed to call me for anything I'd just play a couple of hours and then go back to work.
And yes being top of something feels great, I wasn't even close to top 0.01%, but I was top 20 of my country maybe top 10% worldwide and kept improving. I don't know if I was close to my ceiling, I don't think so because I had not started paying private coaches, but I considered it.
For me as a fully remote software dev, just after the daily was over and nobody needed to call me for anything I'd just play a couple of hours and then go back to work.
And yes being top of something feels great, I wasn't even close to top 0.01%, but I was top 20 of my country maybe top 10% worldwide and kept improving. I don't know if I was close to my ceiling, I don't think so because I had not started paying private coaches, but I considered it.
By believing that Dark souls (the first one) is an unrepeatable masterpiece and not liking any other game (except hollow knight)
And then feeling tired of finishing it more than 5 times and being unable to play it again.
And then feeling tired of finishing it more than 5 times and being unable to play it again.
Its totally possible to avoid video game addition, I casually play videogames, and have been in places in my life where I played in excess, but usually that came with avoiding parts of my life. So I say "Ask yourself why you might be playing to the exclusion of your life outside of the videogame and see if you can find other ways to enrich your time."
It reads like you are looking for something more exciting in your life, not that you are looking to zone out into a "flow state" for hours of gaming. Maybe start there.
It reads like you are looking for something more exciting in your life, not that you are looking to zone out into a "flow state" for hours of gaming. Maybe start there.
I have a similar thing, if I install a particular game I tend to play a bit too much, then uninstall and won't play for awhile; and reinstalling it takes several hours on my lousy internet connection.
I do play a healthy amount of another game, but tend to play with my siblings and it is more about the social aspect rather than the game itself.
I agree that filling the time with something better is important, and to stick to a particular amount of time with a game. The "just one more match" syndrome is real, and can create issues.
I do play a healthy amount of another game, but tend to play with my siblings and it is more about the social aspect rather than the game itself.
I agree that filling the time with something better is important, and to stick to a particular amount of time with a game. The "just one more match" syndrome is real, and can create issues.
Age. I'm hardly interested in casuality and flatness of game narration, so there is only few games I can occasionally really enjoy to play.
I finished Cyberpunk 2077 last week. Story is interesting, but gameplay is meh. That forces me to focus on main story and don't waste my time with looting, exploring, killing NPC's, etc.
If ther is no story, I'm not interested at all.
Btw, I buy only DRM free games on GoG, so that also gives you some limits.
I finished Cyberpunk 2077 last week. Story is interesting, but gameplay is meh. That forces me to focus on main story and don't waste my time with looting, exploring, killing NPC's, etc.
If ther is no story, I'm not interested at all.
Btw, I buy only DRM free games on GoG, so that also gives you some limits.
If you self-admit it was an unhealthy habit, then I'd be cautious about going back to it. Addiction is not something a person should be willing to edge into, and if you think it's an addictive behaviour, then it probably is. Definitely make sure it is not affecting your marriage or job, that would be a key metric to know for sure if it's an addition and not just a source of entertainment.
Both were affected for sure. Marriage is now recovering and I changed to a better job recently but I was warned many times in my former job
I don't know that you should get relationship advice around computer gaming from some random dude from hackernews, but if you're willing to hear it anyway, I'd communicate your struggle with your spouse - it's very important she understands your struggles and concerns, and can help you. With that, maybe work on figuring out if you're using gaming as a way to relax or a way to escape. If it's escape, what are you escaping? Maybe that's the sort of self reflection you should do, and the sort of topics you want to talk to your wife about. Being a team is hard. I've been married 10 years, and we just had our first son this year, so I'm at least not talking out of my butt.
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What worked for me to quit an addictive game was to educate myself on the dark patterns that games use to make us addicted. Knowing their tricks makes them less powerful (at least for me). I used my research into dark patterns in games to make a website about it. https://www.darkpattern.games/
I avoid immersive games entirely because I can lose days to them.
Avoiding at source is not the only way to manage a willpower problem but it is the most decisive.
Avoiding at source is not the only way to manage a willpower problem but it is the most decisive.
The cliche responses, but.. Sports offer similar flow states,. but do require some effort to get to that point. Additional bonus is you get fit and meet people as well . Personally I surf, run, bike, but other good ones are rock climbing, martial arts, cross fit .. it's never too late to start (but injuries do start accumulating on some of the more intensive ones after 40)
I'm late 40s gamer, and been through a lot of this. My key to this, is pretty much only playing games that have defined endings. Keeps me away from MMOs, and FPS shooters with seasonal/ladder systems. This has helped a lot. I occasionally relapse but I'm very mindful of it, since I've been in the grip of EVE addiction so badly haha. best of luck
Yes, you are right, the problem with the game I played is the ladder system. And yes there is definitely not an end. There will be always a better player than you.
Problem is video games with defined endings don't really appeal to me at all. I'm not really into video games in general, it was just something particular about this game that got me hooked. Will try sports now
Problem is video games with defined endings don't really appeal to me at all. I'm not really into video games in general, it was just something particular about this game that got me hooked. Will try sports now
Install the games inside a Qemu virtual machine. Put the VM file inside an external drive, connect it only Thursday nights
Maybe start a new game. All games that I play over and over, alone, similar matches, like CS, I just uninstall it. And try something new
Maybe a different style, puzzle like Portal, Talos... Or open world like Valheim, or Raft, great to relax. Sea of thieves 50% at the moment
Maybe start a new game. All games that I play over and over, alone, similar matches, like CS, I just uninstall it. And try something new
Maybe a different style, puzzle like Portal, Talos... Or open world like Valheim, or Raft, great to relax. Sea of thieves 50% at the moment
Not sure if this helps. Before you were born I wanted to become a game developer. But I found both games and (primitive versions of) social media to be so addictive that I went into another area and avoided games and social media for the next 25 years. I have tried to get into games since then b/c I have more time, but the spell has been broken.
I think some games are healthier than others. Something like Baldur's Gate 1 lets you have a full session within one hour, whereas for many recent games, 2 hours might be the minimum dose to enjoy yourself. I'm very annoyed at how many games require several hours to get through the filler of walking from one city to another.
There is often an overlap with this issue and undiagnosed ND conditions such as ASD or ADHD. It may be worth investigating.
Very easy… stop playing competitive multiplayer games or games based on random loots. Those games are tailored to trigger addiction! I am an avid gamer (finished last week Elden ring in 90h) but I never play multiplayer games… I don’t like them… I am not competitive at all, what I look for in games is an adventure!
First of all, the average adult in the US watches ~1300 hours TV per year. Playing games instead is not worse. But arguably it's a waste of your life. So I would ask myself what I want to do with my life and do that. If then there is some down time available for gaming, why not?
Which game, by the way?
A friend of mine managed to quit by selling his PC computer. He found that being unable to play was the only way to be sure, and that it's easier to sell a PC than it is to not install the game or not play.
Not sure if this is good advice or not.
A friend of mine managed to quit by selling his PC computer. He found that being unable to play was the only way to be sure, and that it's easier to sell a PC than it is to not install the game or not play.
Not sure if this is good advice or not.
I intentionally don't want to say the game name or mentioned many details as I'm afraid maybe many people would like to try it, and some of them could get addicted like me. It would be a bad outcome for the world :D
Selling the PC and going to mac is great advice. Many times I feel a small temptation to just go download/install and set up my keyboard shortcuts again because it would take just about 1 hour. If I had to buy a new PC to do that I wouldn't even consider it.
The problem is that I'm a C# developer, and even though it's now possible to develop .net core in a mac without issues I don't think I want to do it. Also I find macs extremely expensive, my ThinkPad is a beast in specs and costed 1/4 of an equivalent mac. Well of course it's also uglier, heavier, makes more noise and spends more electricity than a mac, but I'm ok with that, I like my computer ugly on the outside but performant in the inside :)
Selling the PC and going to mac is great advice. Many times I feel a small temptation to just go download/install and set up my keyboard shortcuts again because it would take just about 1 hour. If I had to buy a new PC to do that I wouldn't even consider it.
The problem is that I'm a C# developer, and even though it's now possible to develop .net core in a mac without issues I don't think I want to do it. Also I find macs extremely expensive, my ThinkPad is a beast in specs and costed 1/4 of an equivalent mac. Well of course it's also uglier, heavier, makes more noise and spends more electricity than a mac, but I'm ok with that, I like my computer ugly on the outside but performant in the inside :)
Have you ever been evaluated for ADHD? I'm not a specialist, nor does your post have anywhere near enough info for me to judge, but your second to last paragraph especially sent up some flags for me so I thought I'd mention it
no, never been evaluated for ADHD. But let's assume I knew I had it, what would change?
The simplest answer would be medication. (The following is a vast oversimplification of the biology involved but essentially) the ADHD brain is starved for dopamine. When it finds something that's a reliable source of dopamine (like video game are designed to be), it latches on leading to hyperfocus. Stopping is especially difficult because there's a "dopamine cliff" (going from an extra rewarding activity to nothing).
Many ADHD drugs work by (more or less) increasing dopamine levels in the brain. This makes regular activity more rewarding, and lessens that steep "cliff" effect. For me at least, it allows me to indulge in activities like video games and other hobbies in moderation which was never possible before (in addition to a lot of other quality of life benefits).
Medication isn't the only answer of course. There are treatment and management strategies that don't involve drugs, and I often find that just understanding the mechanisms behind my behavior helps me come up with effective strategies to manage them.
(And of course, not all video game addictions are ADHD related, and I absolutely don't mean to suggest they are. But there are well documented links between ADHD and addictive behavior. And ADHD is widely misunderstood by the public, so many individuals that don't display classic hyperactive symptoms aren't diagnosed or are diagnosed late in life. So I thought it'd be worth mentioning as something to consider anyway)
Many ADHD drugs work by (more or less) increasing dopamine levels in the brain. This makes regular activity more rewarding, and lessens that steep "cliff" effect. For me at least, it allows me to indulge in activities like video games and other hobbies in moderation which was never possible before (in addition to a lot of other quality of life benefits).
Medication isn't the only answer of course. There are treatment and management strategies that don't involve drugs, and I often find that just understanding the mechanisms behind my behavior helps me come up with effective strategies to manage them.
(And of course, not all video game addictions are ADHD related, and I absolutely don't mean to suggest they are. But there are well documented links between ADHD and addictive behavior. And ADHD is widely misunderstood by the public, so many individuals that don't display classic hyperactive symptoms aren't diagnosed or are diagnosed late in life. So I thought it'd be worth mentioning as something to consider anyway)
Interesting. But I don't think I am always craving for dopamine, at least I'd like to believe that hehe.
I'm a kind of functional member of society, a bit introverted yes, but I'm able to do everything more or less normally. Some social anxiety, but I'm able to overcome it when I really need to, I can work and function normally and honestly I wouldn't like to take drugs or treatment if I don't need to. If I had ADHD it might be a very mild case.
I'm a kind of functional member of society, a bit introverted yes, but I'm able to do everything more or less normally. Some social anxiety, but I'm able to overcome it when I really need to, I can work and function normally and honestly I wouldn't like to take drugs or treatment if I don't need to. If I had ADHD it might be a very mild case.
Get a computer that you can't play it on and put your gaming rig in storage (or have someone get rid of it for you). Then figure out something to fill the space.. build a new habit for example... exercise (walking/running)
You need something to kill time. You may not like my answer. But how about having kids?
You won’t have time to play video games (or your wife will beat you up) for decades if they keep coming. Then you will be too old to play/care about games.
You won’t have time to play video games (or your wife will beat you up) for decades if they keep coming. Then you will be too old to play/care about games.
I don't know why you are being downvoted, as I find your reasoning valid.
My SO was never keen on the idea of having children. I thought I wanted to have children 5 years ago, but it was really just a default society behavior, not something I had stopped to think.
When I had no more excuses to delay having kids (healthy, married, stable job, two real estate properties) I really gave it a thought and concluded I didn't want to. I seriously touched the topic with my SO and told her I'd understand if she would leave me, but she said she was relieved by my decision because she also didn't want to have children.
What you said was one of the reasons "in favor" of having children, because you are right, life with children gets complicated in many senses but also gets simpler at least in life purpose. You don't need to "kill" time anymore for decades. But I concluded at least for me, it was not a strong enough reason to have children.
My SO was never keen on the idea of having children. I thought I wanted to have children 5 years ago, but it was really just a default society behavior, not something I had stopped to think.
When I had no more excuses to delay having kids (healthy, married, stable job, two real estate properties) I really gave it a thought and concluded I didn't want to. I seriously touched the topic with my SO and told her I'd understand if she would leave me, but she said she was relieved by my decision because she also didn't want to have children.
What you said was one of the reasons "in favor" of having children, because you are right, life with children gets complicated in many senses but also gets simpler at least in life purpose. You don't need to "kill" time anymore for decades. But I concluded at least for me, it was not a strong enough reason to have children.
Thanks. It's a serious answer. Seriously.
If you don't have kids, and not extremely enthusiastic about your work, you will end up having a life purpose problem. Having kids really solves that.
I do feel raising kids well is the most valuable thing I do with my life. Of course I am just a regular guy with a professional job which I do love, but not extremely successfully or something.
You will understand more when you get older. Just think what you will do when you are 40, 50, 60 years old.
If you don't have kids, and not extremely enthusiastic about your work, you will end up having a life purpose problem. Having kids really solves that.
I do feel raising kids well is the most valuable thing I do with my life. Of course I am just a regular guy with a professional job which I do love, but not extremely successfully or something.
You will understand more when you get older. Just think what you will do when you are 40, 50, 60 years old.
Yes! I am also a regular guy, I actually feel a bit below average reading HN, since I live in Germany and don't earn that much compared to US or even UK salaries. But I also don't spend a lot :)
I have many (attainable) goals for when I hit 40, one of them is to be totally financially independent (passive sources of income > monthly expenses). After that I'd love to try a different industry altogether from tech, very likely starting a small, "boring" but low risk business. Not with the goal of getting rich of course. Just because I don't see myself in the tech treadmill my entire life.
But yes what to do in my old age was a big consideration for me when I pondered about having children and my conclusion was that it was not worth to invest so much resources (time and money) into children in the present when I'm still young and with energy, just for having something to do 20 years in the future. Also take into account children will eventually leave home so I'd still be on my own when I'm 60 and older, with or without children.
I have great respect for people that have children and I actually think me and my SO are selfish and probably narcissists. But we only have one life and having children is not a decision you can undo.
I have many (attainable) goals for when I hit 40, one of them is to be totally financially independent (passive sources of income > monthly expenses). After that I'd love to try a different industry altogether from tech, very likely starting a small, "boring" but low risk business. Not with the goal of getting rich of course. Just because I don't see myself in the tech treadmill my entire life.
But yes what to do in my old age was a big consideration for me when I pondered about having children and my conclusion was that it was not worth to invest so much resources (time and money) into children in the present when I'm still young and with energy, just for having something to do 20 years in the future. Also take into account children will eventually leave home so I'd still be on my own when I'm 60 and older, with or without children.
I have great respect for people that have children and I actually think me and my SO are selfish and probably narcissists. But we only have one life and having children is not a decision you can undo.
I know my tendency to get addicted so I just don't play games anymore.
Probably doesn't help, but for me, just plain being bad at games has definitely saved me (ish) from this kind of addiction cycle, even though they interest me a lot.
Carpal tunnel syndrome forced me to stop playing for hours on end. I dont recommend it for anyone, but its a great way to ensure you're only playing in small chunks.
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We lock the vehicles and hide the access devices while video and home automation logs anyone going into the garage and their duration.
I agree with using cheats as a way to get rid of addiction.
You can see that what you depend on is just a number.
I was able to get rid of game addiction this way too.
You can see that what you depend on is just a number.
I was able to get rid of game addiction this way too.
Ive heard some people go as far using naltrexone, an anti-addiction medication for this.
Does anyone know anyone who actually did this?
Does anyone know anyone who actually did this?
What helped me to finally break my addiction is to sell my gaming account in black market for $.
Play 24/7, no sleeping, no eating until you get nauseated by it (or just bored).
Bought a Mac.
to separate you from the addiction you need to go on a long vacation, south america? asia?
I'm already "clean" for 4 months
I moved to a different country 10.000 km away from home this year, that was also a reason why I wanted to cut the game off my life. I had lot of stuff to do. Now I am already established in the new country with some spare time in hand that's why I wrote this post
I moved to a different country 10.000 km away from home this year, that was also a reason why I wanted to cut the game off my life. I had lot of stuff to do. Now I am already established in the new country with some spare time in hand that's why I wrote this post
Just sell your PC and buy a Mac.
Channel your energy into real life. Sounds easier than it might be, and I would be naive to believe everyone has the same experience with gaming..
..but at some point I lead an ruthless clan of hundreds of people who would considerably push the limits of the servers rules. Some of them cheated, and they were ostracized (or just hid it really well). This all took place inside a server of a well known game but not very well known multiplayer mod for the game.
I realize this might not answer your question at all, but I’ve been itching to share this story to a while. I told myself I should write a blog post about this, but there are so many fine details that I’ll leave out of this comment that it will take some commitment for a full write-up.
Anyways, it took loads of time and energy to manage the people, ensure resources were properly distributed, and formulate ways to create internal conflicts within the organization to weed out those who did not reciprocate. I was young and didn’t really think how much of a jerk I was being, but I realize that now.
At a certain point I realized I had a significant addiction. Maybe it was the game, but it was probably the power I had in the organization. I tried cutting the activity out of my life, but that just left a gaping void in my life. This wasn’t a substance addiction where I was losing friends or making life effecting choices (other than the amount of time I didn’t spend on studies or a job). It felt like the more time and energy I spent in this role, the more my social bubble grew, and the more respect I gained from the admins of the server. There was a lot of politics, a lot of time spent protecting the image of the organization, and even some clandestine operations where my organization would, at the request of certain admins, target other groups who were blatantly breaking the rules, and rejoining after a few hours (or however long it took for their ISP to change their IP) under different names.
Granted my organization did not always follow the rules, I always made a thorough attempt at explaining the actions of our members, and made concerted efforts to appeal to the public (of the server) why our actions were justified. We had what we called a “legal department” which would direct accused members to remain quite during reports on the forums and let us handle the communications.
From this experience I learned a great deal about how to handle conflicts, how to operate just within the confines of regulations, and (probably the most enriching part) communicating with people who spoke very little English. Also made some great friends along the way that I still talk to on-and-off to this day.
All in all it was a really significant learning experience for me. I eventually started a media blog with one of my in-person friends, and had a huge international marketing base to generate the first thousand or so clicks from. I also learned a thing or two about workplace politics, in that (sometimes) it’s better to bring your issues to those above the issue. Other times it’s best to remain quiet and do what you know works. Some other things I learned was that there is always someone with more power than you (server admins, your bosses boss) and that you should probably show a little respect to that person (whether or not you actually respect them). One of my biggest take-aways from this experience is that if you keep working at something, no matter how badly you think you are doing at it, you’ll eventually look back and say “hey, I did that!”.
Best of luck to you, addiction is something many people struggle with in many different ways. I think that acknowledging that there might be an issue is a huge step in the right direction.
Who knows, you might find yourself looking back years from now in appreciation of all the time you “wasted” playing a video games, in some strange way.
(Please excuse any typos or incorrect grammar, I wrote this haste-fully(?) between calls.)
P.S. “DMH 4 Lyfe” :)
..but at some point I lead an ruthless clan of hundreds of people who would considerably push the limits of the servers rules. Some of them cheated, and they were ostracized (or just hid it really well). This all took place inside a server of a well known game but not very well known multiplayer mod for the game.
I realize this might not answer your question at all, but I’ve been itching to share this story to a while. I told myself I should write a blog post about this, but there are so many fine details that I’ll leave out of this comment that it will take some commitment for a full write-up.
Anyways, it took loads of time and energy to manage the people, ensure resources were properly distributed, and formulate ways to create internal conflicts within the organization to weed out those who did not reciprocate. I was young and didn’t really think how much of a jerk I was being, but I realize that now.
At a certain point I realized I had a significant addiction. Maybe it was the game, but it was probably the power I had in the organization. I tried cutting the activity out of my life, but that just left a gaping void in my life. This wasn’t a substance addiction where I was losing friends or making life effecting choices (other than the amount of time I didn’t spend on studies or a job). It felt like the more time and energy I spent in this role, the more my social bubble grew, and the more respect I gained from the admins of the server. There was a lot of politics, a lot of time spent protecting the image of the organization, and even some clandestine operations where my organization would, at the request of certain admins, target other groups who were blatantly breaking the rules, and rejoining after a few hours (or however long it took for their ISP to change their IP) under different names.
Granted my organization did not always follow the rules, I always made a thorough attempt at explaining the actions of our members, and made concerted efforts to appeal to the public (of the server) why our actions were justified. We had what we called a “legal department” which would direct accused members to remain quite during reports on the forums and let us handle the communications.
From this experience I learned a great deal about how to handle conflicts, how to operate just within the confines of regulations, and (probably the most enriching part) communicating with people who spoke very little English. Also made some great friends along the way that I still talk to on-and-off to this day.
All in all it was a really significant learning experience for me. I eventually started a media blog with one of my in-person friends, and had a huge international marketing base to generate the first thousand or so clicks from. I also learned a thing or two about workplace politics, in that (sometimes) it’s better to bring your issues to those above the issue. Other times it’s best to remain quiet and do what you know works. Some other things I learned was that there is always someone with more power than you (server admins, your bosses boss) and that you should probably show a little respect to that person (whether or not you actually respect them). One of my biggest take-aways from this experience is that if you keep working at something, no matter how badly you think you are doing at it, you’ll eventually look back and say “hey, I did that!”.
Best of luck to you, addiction is something many people struggle with in many different ways. I think that acknowledging that there might be an issue is a huge step in the right direction.
Who knows, you might find yourself looking back years from now in appreciation of all the time you “wasted” playing a video games, in some strange way.
(Please excuse any typos or incorrect grammar, I wrote this haste-fully(?) between calls.)
P.S. “DMH 4 Lyfe” :)
I’ll take a stab at answering your question directly..
..I still play games from time to time, but for a while it felt like I was just falling back into the same traps. I’d play late into the night and wake up feeling like shit for work the next day.
The way I combat this is by only playing when I’ve gotten in touch with an old friend and want to share an experience with them, finding a game that I can spin up a server on and learn about what it takes to manage that sort of server or community, or when my kid invites me to play.
A healthy amount of gaming is possible, but for me I need to be able to tell myself I’m bringing some enrichment to my life by playing.
Hope this is a bit more helpful than my previous rant.
..I still play games from time to time, but for a while it felt like I was just falling back into the same traps. I’d play late into the night and wake up feeling like shit for work the next day.
The way I combat this is by only playing when I’ve gotten in touch with an old friend and want to share an experience with them, finding a game that I can spin up a server on and learn about what it takes to manage that sort of server or community, or when my kid invites me to play.
A healthy amount of gaming is possible, but for me I need to be able to tell myself I’m bringing some enrichment to my life by playing.
Hope this is a bit more helpful than my previous rant.
You can totally have a healthy amount of playing. But it sounds like you're treating the whole endeavor of video gaming as if it is an addiction just from the start which in turn makes it an addicting activity to you. Just the way you phrase the beginning of your story where you would stop when your wife wasn't home but then you didn't care anymore and then you kept doing it when she was home. That's shame or something. It's just an activity it's just a game. Why not just play the game when you want to have fun? Spend time with your wife have fun with your wife make love with your wife if your wife is so important do things with your wife. You have a whole life. Video games are for fun and entertainment.
Yes at the beginning there was some shame. Then because of the lockdowns my wife was always at home and the shame went away :D
Although she hated the fact that while I was playing I was so focused that I didn't listen to her (I also had headphones on), in the end she accepted it and would just write me a message telling me to talk to her when the match was over...
Also the decision to cut the game off completely came from me 100%, she never demanded that I should stop playing completely
Although she hated the fact that while I was playing I was so focused that I didn't listen to her (I also had headphones on), in the end she accepted it and would just write me a message telling me to talk to her when the match was over...
Also the decision to cut the game off completely came from me 100%, she never demanded that I should stop playing completely
What's the game?
Which game is it?
League of Legends maybe?
I have the opposite problem, I can't find a game that I don't get bored with really quick :)
I have the opposite problem, I can't find a game that I don't get bored with really quick :)
Just don’t. Fill the gap. Meditate. Build something.
If you are an alcoholic just stop, if you are depressed just be happy, if you are poor just get rich. Thanks for the advice
"None" is legitimately the only safe amount of alcohol for many people and "none" may also be the legitimate amount of gaming for many people.
I’m not associated but there’s a recent book called “how to change”. Worth a read.
> Gambling disorder is the only behavioral addiction (as opposed to substance use) identified in DSM-5.
There is no such thing as video game addition. Video games do not directly hijack the substrates your brain uses for calculating motivation and interest. It's just another stimuli coming in through your normal senses. There is nothing magical, good or bad, about stimuli on screens.
There is no such thing as video game addition. Video games do not directly hijack the substrates your brain uses for calculating motivation and interest. It's just another stimuli coming in through your normal senses. There is nothing magical, good or bad, about stimuli on screens.
There is nothing magical about other addictive substances either…
I don’t believe anything about the definition of addiction has to do with how it “hijacks your substrate”. As far as I found - OP is describing addiction: an overwhelming desire to do something one knows is harmful, which provides no benefit to one’s life, that one cannot maintain a healthy relationship with.
I don’t believe anything about the definition of addiction has to do with how it “hijacks your substrate”. As far as I found - OP is describing addiction: an overwhelming desire to do something one knows is harmful, which provides no benefit to one’s life, that one cannot maintain a healthy relationship with.
Addictive substances directly effect the biochemistry of motivation. Directly acting on some subset of receptors (or other mechanisms) in the brain on neurons and glia is entirely different from something coming in through your senses.
One is direct and one in indirect. For video games to become addictive they actually have to be fun and rewarding; probably in a random interval operant conditioning pattern. For methamphetamine to become addictive you don't even need to be having fun or experiencing reward. That's a big difference. Addicting drugs are usually intrinsically addicting. No video game is.
Most video game "addiction" material is from for profit private treatment centers and rarely peer reviewed. It is not represented in the legal medical codes or in high impact journals.
One is direct and one in indirect. For video games to become addictive they actually have to be fun and rewarding; probably in a random interval operant conditioning pattern. For methamphetamine to become addictive you don't even need to be having fun or experiencing reward. That's a big difference. Addicting drugs are usually intrinsically addicting. No video game is.
Most video game "addiction" material is from for profit private treatment centers and rarely peer reviewed. It is not represented in the legal medical codes or in high impact journals.
You’re confusing some basic points. An addictive -substance- does need to be a substance, yes. But video games also come “in through your senses”.
I do not need an appeal to “the literature” without a cogent argument to begin with. Video game addiction (and other forms of non-substance addictions) are real.
I do not need an appeal to “the literature” without a cogent argument to begin with. Video game addiction (and other forms of non-substance addictions) are real.
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I usually try to avoid describing speech as "dangerous" or "toxic" but in this case I think this is dangerous as it's a perfect fit for confirmation bias for someone struggling with video game addiction who wants it not to be true (I know from experience). That said, I encourage it's widespread dissemination because it's an important discussion. Upvoting to try to prevent this thread from becoming dead.
Using the DSM-5 as the only source is quite risky. Consider how they described homosexuality at times in the past.
Video games are absolutely magical! The human senses/brain system evolved to fit a very particular world with certain limitations, none of which exist in a video game world. You can get so deeply into the video game world that you ignore and are even unaware of basic needs like hunger. In video games your senses can become supercharged. You can obtain god-like powers that humans have dreamed of probably since the dawn of time (invincibility, flight, etc). A human brain that evolved with a basic dopamine-based reward center can easily be tricked/manipulated to crank out way too much, which is (at a very simple level) how drugs and other addictions work.
Honest question: do you think there is such a thing as sex addiction?
Using the DSM-5 as the only source is quite risky. Consider how they described homosexuality at times in the past.
Video games are absolutely magical! The human senses/brain system evolved to fit a very particular world with certain limitations, none of which exist in a video game world. You can get so deeply into the video game world that you ignore and are even unaware of basic needs like hunger. In video games your senses can become supercharged. You can obtain god-like powers that humans have dreamed of probably since the dawn of time (invincibility, flight, etc). A human brain that evolved with a basic dopamine-based reward center can easily be tricked/manipulated to crank out way too much, which is (at a very simple level) how drugs and other addictions work.
Honest question: do you think there is such a thing as sex addiction?
This is so, so wrong.
Gaming releases dopamine and gets you addicted to the reward. It's a whole profession on how to optimize dopamine releases over time.
Have you tried Escape From Tarkov? :P
I started playing a video game at the end of 2019, and played every time I could when my wife was not home. Then came 2020, covid lockdowns, also I started getting better at the game (the ladder systems are so addictive) and played more. In 2021 I just didn't care anymore whether my wife was home or not or even if I was supposed to be working and started playing all the time. I'd wake up early to play and would go to bed late to catch up with work I had not done during the day.
According to Steam I played over 2.000 hours during 2020 and 2021.
Finally I decided I was seriously addicted and uninstalled the game, unsubscribed from everyone related to the game in youtube, quit all discord communities, and it worked.
I have been now "clean" for 4 months. But sometimes I crave to go back and play. I watched a youtube video in incognito recently of some famous player and had so much urge to play again. But I'm afraid just by installing the game I will be going back to the addiction.
Is it possible to have a "healthy" amount of playing? Let's say just a couple of hours in the weekends? The only reason I think I have been able to not play for 4 months is because it's time consuming for me to download/install the game again, set my keyboard shortcuts, etc. It will take at least 1 hour for me to set up everything and that's what is preventing me to go back. But if I had the game available and ready to launch in a click I am not sure I would be able to play only some hours on the weekends.
What I love about this particular game is how I can totally focus mind and body for each 30-40 minutes match where I won't take a look at my cellphone or anything can distract me really because I'm totally focused basically in a real "flow" state. Of course it's a flow state for something irrelevant to my life or society, so it's basically a waste of time I guess... But I also don't have the change to get to this flow state in my day job or in other activity really, adult life can be so boring sometimes...
Really curious if someone else has experienced something similar