Elon Musk: “thermonuclear name & shame” against advertisers pulling out(twitter.com)
twitter.com
Elon Musk: “thermonuclear name & shame” against advertisers pulling out
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1588676939463946241
156 comments
In behaving this way, he is erasing a tremendous amount of the goodwill he generated from his space and electric car businesses. The world's media, political, business, scientific elite are on Twitter and watching carefully.
It's all very upsetting to watch. I hope that, as you've said, he finds a better management team to fix this ongoing trainwreck.
Elon erased his goodwill when he started his crypto pump and dump scams. Or there's the whole vaporware thing to sucker in more investors. Or there's the fact that he argued Ukraine should concede to Russia's demands.
No, I'm pretty sure this is just another in a long list of mistakes by Elon. I don't believe he knows what he's doing here.
No, I'm pretty sure this is just another in a long list of mistakes by Elon. I don't believe he knows what he's doing here.
And when Elon decided to call a rescue worker a pedophile. To me that demonstrated that Elon was willing to truly destroy people for merely offending him on social media. He later double-downed on the pedophile claim by elaborating on his reasoning for why he thought the rescue worker was a pedophile.
Elon clearly never admits mistakes involving his ego. Same with the discussion now with Kasparov where Elon clearly didn't know he was fighting the Putin regime for a long time, but still doubles down on his mistake.
This character trait will cost him a lot.
This character trait will cost him a lot.
I think this turned a corner. He lost some credibility as a serious person with crypto pump and dump, and also with pedo guy, and with other shenanigans, but he had a trust fund of credibility from the other businesses.
This is one where his business acumen is under scrutiny too, that's a whole new game. But let's see, it's only the bottom of the first inning.
This is one where his business acumen is under scrutiny too, that's a whole new game. But let's see, it's only the bottom of the first inning.
There’s some axiom here… something about wherever you get off the hype train, you still think the earlier stops made sense.
“It’s at X that he lost me.”
“It’s at X that he lost me.”
And in the process destroying so much. Twitter is going to lose most its value and be sold in a fire sale at some point. I doubt it will ever recover.
He’s destroying lives too. ~3700 Twitter employees got randomly fired. Maybe Twitter needed a haircut but 50%? Plus you know many of those people had spouses and children. Add that to the total. There are people whose entire income as software developers is for Twitter apps. If Twitter goes down they’re in trouble.
His other businesses are taking reputation hits by proxy (he doesn’t look like such a good/smart businessman anymore does he?).
And of course there are 40m daily active users. Even if only a small percentage really enjoy it that’s millions of people losing something they really like (like me).
All because he didn’t want to lose a $1B lawsuit and risk whatever would come out in discovery.
When this is over I just can’t see us ending up in anything but a net-negative for everyone.
He’s destroying lives too. ~3700 Twitter employees got randomly fired. Maybe Twitter needed a haircut but 50%? Plus you know many of those people had spouses and children. Add that to the total. There are people whose entire income as software developers is for Twitter apps. If Twitter goes down they’re in trouble.
His other businesses are taking reputation hits by proxy (he doesn’t look like such a good/smart businessman anymore does he?).
And of course there are 40m daily active users. Even if only a small percentage really enjoy it that’s millions of people losing something they really like (like me).
All because he didn’t want to lose a $1B lawsuit and risk whatever would come out in discovery.
When this is over I just can’t see us ending up in anything but a net-negative for everyone.
Don't underestimate the value of witholding whatever was in those discovery text messages.
I’m not. I suspect it would have proved some kind of real fraud on his part, or more likely perjury. And he knew if that came out he’s be facing slam-dunk prison time (among other things).
I think it was the first real consequence he has had to face in a very long time and it was a BIG one. And he was so scared this was the better option.
That’s the theory that makes the most sense to me. The breakup fee of $1B was a lot of money but seems like he’ll lose way more than that in the end on this path.
I think it was the first real consequence he has had to face in a very long time and it was a BIG one. And he was so scared this was the better option.
That’s the theory that makes the most sense to me. The breakup fee of $1B was a lot of money but seems like he’ll lose way more than that in the end on this path.
> The breakup fee of $1B
There was no $1B breakup fee.
There was no $1B breakup fee.
>All because he didn’t want to lose a $1B lawsuit and risk whatever would come out in discovery.
WTF are you talking about? In no world was there a $1B lawsuit. I don't know how anyone is possibly parroting that point given that it has been repeatedly debunked since it was first uttered. It's like someone read a contract, saw that $1B was mentioned somewhere in it and just decided that that would mean whatever the fuck they wanted it to mean. The lawsuit was almost certainly going to end with musk being forced to buy the company.
WTF are you talking about? In no world was there a $1B lawsuit. I don't know how anyone is possibly parroting that point given that it has been repeatedly debunked since it was first uttered. It's like someone read a contract, saw that $1B was mentioned somewhere in it and just decided that that would mean whatever the fuck they wanted it to mean. The lawsuit was almost certainly going to end with musk being forced to buy the company.
If he doesn't ruin twitter I will be sorely disappointed. I have no care at all for the twitter employees, you may as well ask me to sympathize with Phillip Morris workers getting laid off because cigarettes fall out of favor. The sooner he crashes that whole company into a wall, the better.
>"oh you're mad at me? That means I'm right"
This, and that default genre of emotionally retarded mocking of individuals and groups that goes over the line from "critique using humor" to just "making fun of somebody" (exemplified nowadays by pepe and wojack), are both hallmarks of the hyper-low-quality bickering the masses have always engaged in on the internet, often stemming from a disagreement about something petty.
Now, that style of interaction is common not just for adult children arguing about fantasy lore, but for public discourse about political and social issues, for the CEO of Twitter, for US presidents. In fact, it's not just common - it's popular, and many people see Elon's behavior (not just his executive decisions - his behavior) as a good thing (given the prerequisite perception that those targeted by that behavior are primarily members of their social enemy group(s)). Given this, I wouldn't be so sure about the scale of the negative consequences for Elon/Twitter.
I know - people have always been shitty and petty to each other about things like politics. But there's something terrifying about it reaching this particular tier on the immaturity scale.
This, and that default genre of emotionally retarded mocking of individuals and groups that goes over the line from "critique using humor" to just "making fun of somebody" (exemplified nowadays by pepe and wojack), are both hallmarks of the hyper-low-quality bickering the masses have always engaged in on the internet, often stemming from a disagreement about something petty.
Now, that style of interaction is common not just for adult children arguing about fantasy lore, but for public discourse about political and social issues, for the CEO of Twitter, for US presidents. In fact, it's not just common - it's popular, and many people see Elon's behavior (not just his executive decisions - his behavior) as a good thing (given the prerequisite perception that those targeted by that behavior are primarily members of their social enemy group(s)). Given this, I wouldn't be so sure about the scale of the negative consequences for Elon/Twitter.
I know - people have always been shitty and petty to each other about things like politics. But there's something terrifying about it reaching this particular tier on the immaturity scale.
Why does he think anyone would be ashamed of _not_ advertising on Twitter? Twitter ads are worthless. If you're a CMO who manages to kill your entire Twitter ad spend, that should probably go on your resume.
Ok, so maybe this is tin foil hat but maybe the 4d chess is to destroy Twitters relationship with its advertisers so that advertisers lose control of the platform and he can go ahead with the long term “free speech” changes. It is his and Jack’s vision, the only question is does he have the money to fund twitter until he can cut costs and raise money.
Yeah that’s 4d chess. Guy wanted out of the deal remember?
Guy probably thinks he can get away with whatever and misunderstands “every VC is addicted to Twitter” with “Twitter will always be used”, and can get the site running with a skeleton crew.
I mean honestly I think you can get away with a tinier team! But he’s doing so much that makes life harder for himself it’s hard to imagine this as anything but him being himself.
Guy probably thinks he can get away with whatever and misunderstands “every VC is addicted to Twitter” with “Twitter will always be used”, and can get the site running with a skeleton crew.
I mean honestly I think you can get away with a tinier team! But he’s doing so much that makes life harder for himself it’s hard to imagine this as anything but him being himself.
So we are going to have an 8chan clone? Imagine an 8chan but only lightly moderated. No one wants to be on that. It's the worst of both worlds.
There is a good chance Twitter will go the way of Tumblr - sold worthless for parts.
There is a good chance Twitter will go the way of Tumblr - sold worthless for parts.
I totally agree with you, I’m just trying to figure out what a billionaire and a bunch of his anti-woke billionaire buddies think they can do with a platform like this.
To their credit I think the network effects of twitter are in fact stronger than I’d like to believe them to be. I also think they themselves don’t want a “free for all hell scape” really, just enough to push some libertarian / longtermist / free speech ideology and hope that they can shape the countries narrative in their direction.
Oddly I’m starting to think this whole thing goes back to an old money vs new money struggle. SV wants to pull influence away from “the New York Times” crowd, but I think what they’re underestimating I exactly how unpopular their worldview is.
To their credit I think the network effects of twitter are in fact stronger than I’d like to believe them to be. I also think they themselves don’t want a “free for all hell scape” really, just enough to push some libertarian / longtermist / free speech ideology and hope that they can shape the countries narrative in their direction.
Oddly I’m starting to think this whole thing goes back to an old money vs new money struggle. SV wants to pull influence away from “the New York Times” crowd, but I think what they’re underestimating I exactly how unpopular their worldview is.
How does Twitter make money without advertisers ?
I guess in this tin foil hat theory, his investors would help him keep it alive while he cut costs enough to sustain it on membership revenues, or selling user data or some other yet to be unveiled monetization strategy.
It doesn’t make money with advertisers. So it’s a moot point.
$8/month. Ha.
At $8, you still get "half of the ads". At this rate of advertisers dropping out, it will be a very tiny 50%.
I know I’m not a big fish in the SF tech pond. I lead performance marketing/growth at my startup - spend a few grand a day across the typical channels. Seeing things like this from Elon make it nearly certain that my company won’t be advertising on Twitter in the foreseeable future.
I was actually considering jumping in while other larger corps were pulling out (better CPMs), but I can’t risk the act of advertising on Twitter becoming a brand liability, especially on the off chance that Elon publicly unleashes millions of followers in anger on my startup.
Elon is making a massive mistake picking fights with advertisers. It’s a new brand attack surface that didn’t exist last week.
I was actually considering jumping in while other larger corps were pulling out (better CPMs), but I can’t risk the act of advertising on Twitter becoming a brand liability, especially on the off chance that Elon publicly unleashes millions of followers in anger on my startup.
Elon is making a massive mistake picking fights with advertisers. It’s a new brand attack surface that didn’t exist last week.
Really?
Facebook and Google have provided homes for Farrakhan, ISIS, etc. and they're the two largest advertising platforms on the planet, yet Elon is a dick so that it as bridge too far?
Fascinating lol
Facebook and Google have provided homes for Farrakhan, ISIS, etc. and they're the two largest advertising platforms on the planet, yet Elon is a dick so that it as bridge too far?
Fascinating lol
It's advertising, literally the only thing that matters is public perception. If Elon dickishness makes public perception toxic that's all that matters.
Public perception really doesn't matter to advertisers all publicity is good publicity.
The fact that public perception is so ass backwards and easily manipulated speaks volumes about the value of it.
Convince me that's not extortion.
Think about some company that was just starting to think about advertising on Twitter.
And now Elon Musk is threatening that if you ever stop advertising with them, he will try to convince his followers to boycott your products.
Think about some company that was just starting to think about advertising on Twitter.
And now Elon Musk is threatening that if you ever stop advertising with them, he will try to convince his followers to boycott your products.
>Convince me that's not extortion.
hard sell, considering you clearly don't know the meaning of the word.
hard sell, considering you clearly don't know the meaning of the word.
Can you elaborate for those of us reading? I looked up the meaning, and it seems to match.
"the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats."
He's threatening advertisers so that they'll stay on the platform and continue to pay him. Why isn't that extortion?
"the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats."
He's threatening advertisers so that they'll stay on the platform and continue to pay him. Why isn't that extortion?
To be extortion, the threatened action has to be illegal. Threats are allowed. Your boss saying "do X or I'll fire you" is not extortion.
How did you get that idea?
> Remember, the word blackmail refers to a crime wherein the threat is a revelation of information, extortion refers to a crime wherein the threat is either physical, violent or an unfair use of power.
> Remember, the word blackmail refers to a crime wherein the threat is a revelation of information, extortion refers to a crime wherein the threat is either physical, violent or an unfair use of power.
> To be extortion, the threatened action has to be illegal.
Generally no, that's not true. For example:
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.02...
"Theft by extortion. . . . if he intentionally obtains or withholds property of another by threatening to . . . expose any secret tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt or ridicule"
Generally no, that's not true. For example:
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.02...
"Theft by extortion. . . . if he intentionally obtains or withholds property of another by threatening to . . . expose any secret tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt or ridicule"
Pedantry rarely wins arguments, especially outside courtrooms.
"threatening" doing a lot of lifting here
How so?
> Remember, the word blackmail refers to a crime wherein the threat is a revelation of information, extortion refers to a crime wherein the threat is either physical, violent or an unfair use of power.
I assert that getting people to boycott me because I don't buy his services would be an unfair use of his power.
And if you disagree, then please explain to me how boycotting Twitter or people who advertise on Twitter is bad...?
> Remember, the word blackmail refers to a crime wherein the threat is a revelation of information, extortion refers to a crime wherein the threat is either physical, violent or an unfair use of power.
I assert that getting people to boycott me because I don't buy his services would be an unfair use of his power.
And if you disagree, then please explain to me how boycotting Twitter or people who advertise on Twitter is bad...?
It’s “free speech”, the dude has lost it
It's extortion if you think coordinated boycotts are also extortion. They're two sides of the same coin.
Just out of curiosity, did you read this?
https://i.redd.it/a41q5e8ka0y91.jpg
https://i.redd.it/a41q5e8ka0y91.jpg
Yes, particularly his line how "Advertisers are not being manipulated by activist groups" convinced me that whoever Lou Paskalis is, he's either intentionally lying or willfully ignorant[1][2]. Either way, it proves he has no credibility.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Giants
[2]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/30/third-of-...
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Giants
[2]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/30/third-of-...
So, just to be clear, you think Twitter (and by extension Musk and Tesla), along with GM, Audi, Mazda, Porsche, VW, and Ford are being manipulated by activist groups?
Or do you think it's more likely that GM, Audi, Mazda, Porsche, VW, and Ford don't want to give money to Twitter (and by extension Musk and their competitor Tesla), and they're blaming the boogey-man of "activist groups"?
Or do you think it's more likely that GM, Audi, Mazda, Porsche, VW, and Ford don't want to give money to Twitter (and by extension Musk and their competitor Tesla), and they're blaming the boogey-man of "activist groups"?
I gave you references that prove it. Activists targeting investors and advertisers is not a boogieman, it's literally their publicly stated objective.
And just so we're all on the same page, you have no idea who Lou Paskalis is, and you're accusing others of being willfully ignorant.
Got it.
Got it.
He could be the Pope or the President, he said something ignorant and/or demonstrably incorrect and got called out. He's wrong, and if you believe what he said to be true, then you are wrong too. Facts are a thing, and they matter.
Facts are evaluated by collecting evidence. Congratulations, you found some evidence. But so did I. And you're willing to completely ignore the evidence I presented.
Facts are a thing, and it's worth deriving them by looking at the available evidence.
It makes me really sad to see someone who is absolutely convinced by the media narrative, who won't even look into other evidence.
Facts are a thing, and it's worth deriving them by looking at the available evidence.
It makes me really sad to see someone who is absolutely convinced by the media narrative, who won't even look into other evidence.
You didn't present any evidence. You posted a screenshot of a tweet where somebody said something that is incorrect.
We know that activists target advertisers and investors. It's not just a fact, it is their stated goal and they have countless examples where their targeting accomplished their goals.
We know that activists target advertisers and investors. It's not just a fact, it is their stated goal and they have countless examples where their targeting accomplished their goals.
It's not extortion because Elon's fan army is an irrelevant niche in the market for anything not sold by Tesla.
He has like 103 million followers.
True, though a lot of them are disposable accounts.
How many of them will follow his instructions to boycott advertisers who stop filling their Twitter feed with promoted tweets?
Sure, but as he well knows, they are all bots.
Calling for advertisers to pull out of Twitter seems to be a proper exercise of free speech, not an attempt at destroying it. Then again, so is naming & shaming.
It probably depends how that "calling for" works.
A fair few historical examples of "nobody do business with X" have involved improper levels of coercion.
A fair few historical examples of "nobody do business with X" have involved improper levels of coercion.
This seems to be an explanation of what it was.
https://twitter.com/GoAngelo/status/1588696157794242560?ref_...
https://twitter.com/GoAngelo/status/1588696157794242560?ref_...
If they’re calling for boycotts, for example, perfectly acceptable.
This sounds like such a dumb and self-defeating response. Advertisers have pulled ads from all kinds of platforms before as a performative act. But if that's where the eyeballs are, they'll just wait a few months and come back. Striking back at them seems like it might prevent that.
Twitter's also far from being the biggest social media platform. I'm not sure how useful it is to advertisers going by the kind of ads I see. Barrons (sorry, paywall) says they only have about 1% of the ad market.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/twitter-advertising-ad-busi...
https://www.barrons.com/articles/twitter-advertising-ad-busi...
So the message is "if you advertise with us, we will try to sink you if you ever decide to stop". I'm sure companies will be rushing to sign up.
>So the message is "if you advertise with us, we will try to sink you if you ever decide to stop". I'm sure companies will be rushing to sign up.
How can he not see this? With a single Tweet Elon made buying Twitter ads into a risk companies will have to weigh against any benefit from the ads. Literally threatening your customers.
I was convinced it was fake Tweet. He needs to hire someone to delay all his Tweets by 24 hours so he can sleep on them.
How can he not see this? With a single Tweet Elon made buying Twitter ads into a risk companies will have to weigh against any benefit from the ads. Literally threatening your customers.
I was convinced it was fake Tweet. He needs to hire someone to delay all his Tweets by 24 hours so he can sleep on them.
As I saw someone point out somewhere in the last few days, he can’t see it because he’s Elon Musk.
He’s rich and seemingly successful at everything he does. People fawn all over him. He has enough money to buy his way out of almost anything, and he’s been able to get away with insane stuff like naming Autopilot, testing it on public roads w/o any oversight, lying to the SEC, ignoring his deal with the SEC, stuff in his personal life, etc.
He seemingly hasn’t ever had to face real consequences. At least not since he was a child.
So he’s not scared of them. He doesn’t care. Doesn’t think about it. He’s always right because he’s Elon Musk.
So when he doesn’t get his way he doesn’t understand and lashes out (e.g. pedo remark over sub to help kids in cave).
And he was getting more fans! The right wing had started to embrace him! He knew what to say to them! More praise!
Then something happened. He screwed up massively. He jokingly(?) made an offer to buy Twitter with moronic terms. And based on what we’re seeing that probably would have gone badly.
But it got worse. The market dropped a bunch and now his high price was crazy. But he couldn’t back out because he agreed to terms preventing it! He lost a ton (stock holdings) and now had to overpay for Twitter or face a lawsuit.
And he seemed to be more scared of the lawsuit than wasting all that money and destroying Twitter.
It’s all consequences. And Elon Musk doesn’t know about consequences. So he’s responding to them like a 5 year old, lashing out. But that’s causing more consequences.
Advertisers/etc got nervous about his “no moderation” approach. Consequences. He tried to reassure them and pissed off all his new right-wing friends. Consequences. But the advertisers are holding back so now Twitter has less money (and new heavy debt). So he tries to raise money with the blue check thing and everyone gets mad. Consequence. Decided to cut a ton of jobs to save a lot of money. Now EVERYONE is unsure about Twitters future and advertisers get MORE scared. Consequences.
He’s not living in Elon world any more. And he can’t take it. It can’t be his fault. He’s perfect. It must be someone else’s fault.
Begun, the conspiracy theories have.
He’s rich and seemingly successful at everything he does. People fawn all over him. He has enough money to buy his way out of almost anything, and he’s been able to get away with insane stuff like naming Autopilot, testing it on public roads w/o any oversight, lying to the SEC, ignoring his deal with the SEC, stuff in his personal life, etc.
He seemingly hasn’t ever had to face real consequences. At least not since he was a child.
So he’s not scared of them. He doesn’t care. Doesn’t think about it. He’s always right because he’s Elon Musk.
So when he doesn’t get his way he doesn’t understand and lashes out (e.g. pedo remark over sub to help kids in cave).
And he was getting more fans! The right wing had started to embrace him! He knew what to say to them! More praise!
Then something happened. He screwed up massively. He jokingly(?) made an offer to buy Twitter with moronic terms. And based on what we’re seeing that probably would have gone badly.
But it got worse. The market dropped a bunch and now his high price was crazy. But he couldn’t back out because he agreed to terms preventing it! He lost a ton (stock holdings) and now had to overpay for Twitter or face a lawsuit.
And he seemed to be more scared of the lawsuit than wasting all that money and destroying Twitter.
It’s all consequences. And Elon Musk doesn’t know about consequences. So he’s responding to them like a 5 year old, lashing out. But that’s causing more consequences.
Advertisers/etc got nervous about his “no moderation” approach. Consequences. He tried to reassure them and pissed off all his new right-wing friends. Consequences. But the advertisers are holding back so now Twitter has less money (and new heavy debt). So he tries to raise money with the blue check thing and everyone gets mad. Consequence. Decided to cut a ton of jobs to save a lot of money. Now EVERYONE is unsure about Twitters future and advertisers get MORE scared. Consequences.
He’s not living in Elon world any more. And he can’t take it. It can’t be his fault. He’s perfect. It must be someone else’s fault.
Begun, the conspiracy theories have.
Excuse me, he is President of Mars ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)
> How can he not see this?
Stoned off his duff, probably. He might sober up in the morning
Stoned off his duff, probably. He might sober up in the morning
Everyone involved in these tweet threads seems so overly aggressive and dedicated to this cause that, as a person who has never used Twitter, I feel like doesn't really matter. I don't particularly care that Musk owns Twitter but I do think he would be better off staying off the platform until he has a solid strategy worked out. The way things keep changing every couple hours seems stressful. I don't want this to come off as high and mighty or anything but I really think everyone (advertisers, Musk, his cronies, etc) just needs to take a break from social media for a week and come back to it with a clear head.
He needs to make moves before the Nov 8 election.
It seems unwise to pick a fight with advertisers, especially while there are multiple brand safety conferences going on.
Its almost like the guy who spent $44 billion to buy an ad-funded social media company did not understand that advertisers and data buyers are the customers and users are the product. Its not rocket science!
I just DDG’d “brand safety conference”. Turns out to be an executive-class professional role.
> The Brand Safety Institute was founded to professionalize and advance the executive capacity needed at every company to protect their brands.
> There are certified brand safety practitioners at the world’s largest advertising agency holding companies, global 500 brands, and major technology platforms.
Makes sense that someone has to be responsible for making sure their brand not be associated with bad things.
> The Brand Safety Institute was founded to professionalize and advance the executive capacity needed at every company to protect their brands.
> There are certified brand safety practitioners at the world’s largest advertising agency holding companies, global 500 brands, and major technology platforms.
Makes sense that someone has to be responsible for making sure their brand not be associated with bad things.
He's replying to a GOP operative. I figured that once Elon sold Teslas to all the green Democrats he could, he'd flip hard right so he could sell to Republicans.
It's a bit more than that.
His real enterprise is a massive DoD program*, which requires Republicans to fund. Twitter helps him curry favors to earn these Republican backed contracts.
Mike Griffin is the ringleader but he's only useful when Republicans are in power.
There is a goal to Elon's madness, but it's unclear his ploys will pay off.
* DoD program is basically SDI 2.0 as discussed in this link: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career
His real enterprise is a massive DoD program*, which requires Republicans to fund. Twitter helps him curry favors to earn these Republican backed contracts.
Mike Griffin is the ringleader but he's only useful when Republicans are in power.
There is a goal to Elon's madness, but it's unclear his ploys will pay off.
* DoD program is basically SDI 2.0 as discussed in this link: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career
More info:
The DoD program is a space constellation of ballistic missile defense satellites. They enable "improved tracking and potentially targeting of advanced threats, including HGVs and hypersonic cruise missiles".[110] " However, the Union of Concerned Scientists warns developments could escalate tensions with Russia and China and called the project "fundamentally destabilizing".[111] The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace later advocated for a treaty halting development to prevent an arms race in space.[112]
Starlink's military satellite development is overseen internally at SpaceX by retired four-star general Terrence J. O'Shaughnessy.[113][114] O'Shaughnessy advocated before the United States Senate Committee on Armed Services for a layered capability with lethal follow-on that incorporates machine learning and artificial intelligence to gather and act upon sensor data quickly.[115]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Military_capabilities
Also see: Strategic Defense Initiative
The DoD program is a space constellation of ballistic missile defense satellites. They enable "improved tracking and potentially targeting of advanced threats, including HGVs and hypersonic cruise missiles".[110] " However, the Union of Concerned Scientists warns developments could escalate tensions with Russia and China and called the project "fundamentally destabilizing".[111] The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace later advocated for a treaty halting development to prevent an arms race in space.[112]
Starlink's military satellite development is overseen internally at SpaceX by retired four-star general Terrence J. O'Shaughnessy.[113][114] O'Shaughnessy advocated before the United States Senate Committee on Armed Services for a layered capability with lethal follow-on that incorporates machine learning and artificial intelligence to gather and act upon sensor data quickly.[115]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Military_capabilities
Also see: Strategic Defense Initiative
Yup, this is easily a $500 billion defense contract over 5-10 years.
No other company can match SpaceX launch capabilities, so no complex political maneuvering is needed to land DoD contracts.
There are more than the launches up fo grabs.. building the satellites and platforms. The funding doesn't exist without Republicans in power. The decimation of Twitter moderation before the election helps.
Military funding is fairly bipartisan, despite what Republican politicians may have you believe.
This one is specifically a Republican led program. See https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/12/16/approaching-third-r...
I pretty much called this, because Musk (and a lot of his fans, it seems) don't understand how hard it is to monetize social networks and how much power advertisers have on the platform.
This isn't always a good thing mind you, especially when one single advertiser holds a lot of power, but ultimately Musk invited this upon himself and he's just digging a deeper hole with each comment. Once the advertisers are gone, Twitter dies. And he isn't going to monetize users directly enough to change course.
This isn't always a good thing mind you, especially when one single advertiser holds a lot of power, but ultimately Musk invited this upon himself and he's just digging a deeper hole with each comment. Once the advertisers are gone, Twitter dies. And he isn't going to monetize users directly enough to change course.
it is pretty crazy but on the optimistic side maybe he'll come up with a successful non ad driven monetization strategy. it sucks in so many ways to be beholden to scummy advertisers, and with the sheer amount of money and rep on the line here mayhe there is a chance they'll innovate away the advertisers. here'a to hoping
I'm not sure how they could. Last year they made around $4.5 billion in revenue from ads, they'd need around 50 million people paying the $8/month blue checkmark thing to replace that. iirc there's currently around 400,000 verified users now.
> iirc there's currently around 400,000 verified users now.
Doesn’t mean anything as none of those ever paid for verification
Doesn’t mean anything as none of those ever paid for verification
I'm aware, I was trying to put into context how many payed users Twitter would need to replace add revenue, it's just unfeasible.
The way things are going, "the two minute hate" should be right along in the next day or two...
Elon made a category error in thinking Twitter is a free speech platform. It is an advertising sales platform, just like NBC or whatever.
Isn’t the list of companies already public? I’ve seen it at a few places.
Threats are unlikely to make advertisers want to advertise on Twitter.
Cancel Culture is so bad...oh..
Yeah, Musk is starting to ban anyone that rationally argues with him on twitter.
It's really simple
Unlike at Musk's corporations, big corp mgt is all about managing uncertainty
Execs work to ensure success on big bets (new products/directions/++) by mitigating uncertainties & risks
Yet since buying Twitter, Elon Musk has done almost nothing but maximize uncertainty.
Of course they're stepping back
He may resolve much uncertainty about how things will go over time, and many will come back
But making excuses like "it's activist groups that are making them pull out" makes him look ineffective and whiny, and would he accept such an excuse from any exec reporting to him? They guy/gal would be out the door in a New York second.
And this? Threatening advertisers? Yeah, that'll convince 'em. With that one 30sec post, he's probably just convinced a half dozen to never return — if anything goes wrong with the relationship, he'll turn on them in a microsecond.
Looks like massive flailing. Unfortunate.
Unlike at Musk's corporations, big corp mgt is all about managing uncertainty
Execs work to ensure success on big bets (new products/directions/++) by mitigating uncertainties & risks
Yet since buying Twitter, Elon Musk has done almost nothing but maximize uncertainty.
Of course they're stepping back
He may resolve much uncertainty about how things will go over time, and many will come back
But making excuses like "it's activist groups that are making them pull out" makes him look ineffective and whiny, and would he accept such an excuse from any exec reporting to him? They guy/gal would be out the door in a New York second.
And this? Threatening advertisers? Yeah, that'll convince 'em. With that one 30sec post, he's probably just convinced a half dozen to never return — if anything goes wrong with the relationship, he'll turn on them in a microsecond.
Looks like massive flailing. Unfortunate.
> But making excuses like "it's activist groups that are making them pull out" makes him look ineffective and whiny
Rule 1 of CEOing: it's always someone else's fault. Success is "We" or even "I", failure is "You".
Rule 1 of CEOing: it's always someone else's fault. Success is "We" or even "I", failure is "You".
Ha!
(I assume that's sarcasm,because that's a sure way to lose the respect of your employees, costumers, and the market in general.)
(I assume that's sarcasm,because that's a sure way to lose the respect of your employees, costumers, and the market in general.)
Twitter is a huge source for retail data science when it comes to sentiment analysis about products and brands.
That ecosystem is quite fragile and pretty much the one reason that brands to advertise or are active on Twitter despite it’s having by far the lowest conversion rates and by a long margin is that it’s a platform where advertisement and brand engagement sparks conversation the most and the Twitter commercial API makes is easy to get access to all the tweets and analyze the data.
And this is really their entire value proposition they are pretty much the only platform where you can show an ad or actively engage with customers or potential customers and get immediate feedback that isn’t just a binary yes/no on the conversion.
So not only does this hurts them on two fronts as reduced advertisement and brand engagement reduces the value of their data considerably it’s also going to quickly snowball once only a handful or major brands drop it since the value proposition would completely collapse.
That ecosystem is quite fragile and pretty much the one reason that brands to advertise or are active on Twitter despite it’s having by far the lowest conversion rates and by a long margin is that it’s a platform where advertisement and brand engagement sparks conversation the most and the Twitter commercial API makes is easy to get access to all the tweets and analyze the data.
And this is really their entire value proposition they are pretty much the only platform where you can show an ad or actively engage with customers or potential customers and get immediate feedback that isn’t just a binary yes/no on the conversion.
So not only does this hurts them on two fronts as reduced advertisement and brand engagement reduces the value of their data considerably it’s also going to quickly snowball once only a handful or major brands drop it since the value proposition would completely collapse.
Let's organize boycotts of companies that don't advertise on Twitter. I've got to stock up on popcorn!
We have to be mindful of order of operations here or we may narrow our available popcorn choices!
lol I love me a good dumpster fire. Gather round folks is warm and fun to watch, just don’t hang out down wind
The dude he's replying too is Neil Gorsuch's clerk.
Why does he refer to "we" when mentioning making up for lost revenue? Is he referring to "we" as in a person invested financially in the company or as in a Musk fanboy who is apparently signing up for $8/month to help a billionaire and company?
I think it's American right-wing identity politics. Using "we" to refer to the "Free Thinkers."
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1. Why isn’t Elon on hacker news himself ?
2. I wish Twitter would allow sorting of replies (by likes or whatever).
2. I wish Twitter would allow sorting of replies (by likes or whatever).
He is probably on here under a different name just like many celebrities are in video games using alt names. I suspect he would only use his real name with proof if he felt this was an audience for him. Most of the HN audience will expect references and afaik Elon just posts his opinions and not references, so this is not likely a receptive audience.
1. Little to gain for most tech CEOs, and a lot to lose; a much less dramatic environment than twitter, but one where missteps or embarrassment could have more serious consequences.
2. I hate the UI but the API is pretty dope
2. I hate the UI but the API is pretty dope
I have a suspicion that about 10% of the people in any Elon Musk-related thread are Elon Musk.
I've posted this before, but sometimes a quote can have multiple applications. This was apocryphal company wide email:
"Some of you are concerned about the recent change in leadership and of the changes they have enacted. Many feel that Elon is just an MBA wielding moron who has no business running a social media company. I have personally known Elon since we were kids and I just want to set the record straight: Elon does not have an MBA."
"Some of you are concerned about the recent change in leadership and of the changes they have enacted. Many feel that Elon is just an MBA wielding moron who has no business running a social media company. I have personally known Elon since we were kids and I just want to set the record straight: Elon does not have an MBA."
"I am the true defender of freedom of speech. And if you speak out against my way of running this company and leave twitter I will name and shame you."
What a child.
What a child.
Does he mean the advertisers or the "activist groups"?
Either which way, I thought the basic concept was that publicity was a good thing.
Either which way, I thought the basic concept was that publicity was a good thing.
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Musk will soon set his bot army against his foes, including advertisers. Twitter will become the new Yelp.
There are few things in the world I’m more terrified of than Yelp’s salespeople. They give me Jack Lemon from Glengarry vibes.
Louis Rossman beat them. He publicly embarrassed them so much that they put him on a no call list.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CIGKxLcoso
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CIGKxLcoso
rossman is a legend, thanks i hadn't seen this
If pulling your ads from twitter is actually performative, wouldn’t getting named help?
After reading all this about Musk on HN, I would pay $8/m for the rest of my life to never see his name in ‘print’ again
Twitter has been unprofitable for years, it has just become even more profitable. Elon has to focus on making it a better product before he can expect anyone to pay money to use it. Right now it is a truly horrible piece of software.
As for the employees that got fired. So what? I've worked in tech for decades, layoffs are commonplace. They're getting generous payouts and if they have any skills they'll land another job in no time.
As for the employees that got fired. So what? I've worked in tech for decades, layoffs are commonplace. They're getting generous payouts and if they have any skills they'll land another job in no time.
Mr Musk fails to see the irony in his statement.
In reality any advertiser who fails to be named as "pulling put" is going to be asked, why they are not pulling out of Twitter.
Of course, advertisers who want to appeal to the far right market are going to be perfectly happy, and will keep sponsoring Twitter.
Sending money to any of Musk's companies is being seen as a brand liability.
In reality any advertiser who fails to be named as "pulling put" is going to be asked, why they are not pulling out of Twitter.
Of course, advertisers who want to appeal to the far right market are going to be perfectly happy, and will keep sponsoring Twitter.
Sending money to any of Musk's companies is being seen as a brand liability.
Maybe we should boycott any advertisers on any surveillance capitalist platform. I'm only half kidding...I think.
I do recall having a bit of fun when I used to have a Twitter account (maybe a year ago) by consistently clicking 'not interested' (or whatever the label was in the UI) for every ad in my feed. After a few weeks, the system began to show me some fairly unusual and occasionally bizarre ads.
Edit: Actually, come to think of it, I wasn't just clicking 'not interested' but instead blocking the advertisers' accounts entirely. I remember thinking that it was kind of hilarious that doing so was even possible.
I do recall having a bit of fun when I used to have a Twitter account (maybe a year ago) by consistently clicking 'not interested' (or whatever the label was in the UI) for every ad in my feed. After a few weeks, the system began to show me some fairly unusual and occasionally bizarre ads.
Edit: Actually, come to think of it, I wasn't just clicking 'not interested' but instead blocking the advertisers' accounts entirely. I remember thinking that it was kind of hilarious that doing so was even possible.
At one stage I used to click on ads that annoyed me (which is almost all).
Make ‘em pay…
Make ‘em pay…
> Maybe we should boycott any advertisers on any surveillance capitalist platform. I'm only half kidding...I think.
uBlock Origin: make the web usable again.
How to burn 44 billion dollars……
zetazzed(3)
Why should anyone care one way or the other about this Twitter drama?
Many prominent birdsite people are US journalists, pundits, and celebrities. They thought that although social media are the Leopards Eating my Face Party, their faces would stay untouched, and it would just be the proles who were banned or shadowbanned or bullied off. Anyone who was on Photobucket or Tumblr or MySpace knows why this was not a wise thing to believe, but some people need to have the leopard actually bite them to believe it can happen.
A scary amount of 'news' in the USA is rewritten twitter threads with the origin more or less hidden.
So its as if the young people kicked off Tumblr had the mainstream media to amplify their complaints.
A scary amount of 'news' in the USA is rewritten twitter threads with the origin more or less hidden.
So its as if the young people kicked off Tumblr had the mainstream media to amplify their complaints.
I mean… Twitter was a formative SV startup for most of us, post dot com bust. Its downfall is at least somewhat interesting.
Because it can escape to effect the real world, because other people take it seriously.
Which yes that's circular, but that just means it's path-dependent and potentially self sustaining.
Which yes that's circular, but that just means it's path-dependent and potentially self sustaining.
Where else can I post random mindless useless thoughts
Looks like you already found the answer.
In a private encrypted journal?
the Notes app
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What a joke. Everyone who thinks Elon is actually on one side or another needs to look into his history.
He's a globalist technocrat. His mission like all globalist technocrats is to continue to divide the useless eaters while the globalist neofuelist scumbags Implement their social Darwinism and destroy the infrastructure built over the last century plus. Won't be that hard considering fractional Reserve banking created a house of cards that's just about done.
You can't make as many poor business decisions as Musk and have the government keep you afloat if you aren't owned by them.
Everyone commenting in this thread will be collateral damage of the great reset if people don't wake up and start working together.
He's a globalist technocrat. His mission like all globalist technocrats is to continue to divide the useless eaters while the globalist neofuelist scumbags Implement their social Darwinism and destroy the infrastructure built over the last century plus. Won't be that hard considering fractional Reserve banking created a house of cards that's just about done.
You can't make as many poor business decisions as Musk and have the government keep you afloat if you aren't owned by them.
Everyone commenting in this thread will be collateral damage of the great reset if people don't wake up and start working together.
I feel like I’m missing a huge amount of context to what you’re talking about, especially that last sentence. Where do I catch up?
You gotta do your own research, look into Pepe Silvia
https://twitter.com/karaswisher/status/1588668007244759041 sounds like Elon was caught flatfooted, and his continued behavior is just another in a series of unforced errors.
Probably doesn't help that the guy is taking advice from Jason and David Sacks (classic "oh you're mad at me? That means I'm right" personalities). The best thing Musk could do right now is find someone who does not have a twitter account (or doesn't care) and talk to them. Yet another case study for "don't just work with people because you are friends".