Fractal Vise(airgraver.com)
airgraver.com
Fractal Vise
https://airgraver.com/fractal-vise.htm
103 comments
As far as I can tell they are not disclosing the patent application number anywhere. They only give a vague description of what it's supposed to cover. Yet they are being very aggressive about "infringers" of their patent they don't have yet for a product they aren't selling yet.
Former USPTO patent examiner here. Here's the USPTO's new public search tool: https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/static/pages/landing.html?...
I tried the following search:
Selecting only the US-PGPUB database (published patent applications), I came across the following that seem to match:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230008280A1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230009028A1/en
I tried the following search:
(lindsay NEAR2 ste$5).inv.
Selecting only the US-PGPUB database (published patent applications), I came across the following that seem to match:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230008280A1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230009028A1/en
varenc(1)
That's amusing, as original fractal vise's from over 100 years ago (1913) can be found online, including restoration videos of very old ones. Someone trying to repatent such old tech sounds... dubious.
This is supposedly an enhanced version, which could plausibly be patented, but I agree with the parent that it seems a little odd.
They’ve also got an infringement info page that seems pretty aggressive… maybe they’ve had a lot of trouble with knockoffs or something?
The Chinese already copied the design, improved it, manufactured it, and listed it for sale on a global marketplace. The poor guy is finished.
Or, from another point of view, the inventor and the Chinese both copied a design from 1912 [1] which was shown in a widely shown Youtube video in June 2021 [2] - a month before this "inventor" applied for a patent [3]
[1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US1059545 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU [3] https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230008280A1/en
[1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US1059545 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU [3] https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230008280A1/en
And according to the video it was already patented back then in the US. Hopefully the patent office will reject the application.
The patent office isn't in the business of rejecting applications. That's left for the courts to decide.
I'm not really familiar with the patent application process, but according to [1] the US patent office does reject application based on prior art.
[1] https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s706.html
[1] https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s706.html
However, in practise it issues many patents that have prior art
https://www.eff.org/issues/patents
https://www.eff.org/issues/patents
Their claimed invention is about attaching fractal jaws to existing engraving vises and not the fractal vise itself.
> The patent pending improvements allow for use with engraving vises and other vises.
But in reality their patent applications doesn't even claim that, but rather a specific method for attaching fractal jaws to existing engraving vises as far as I can tell.
btrettel found what seems to be the patent applications in another comment
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230008280A1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230009028A1/en
> The patent pending improvements allow for use with engraving vises and other vises.
But in reality their patent applications doesn't even claim that, but rather a specific method for attaching fractal jaws to existing engraving vises as far as I can tell.
btrettel found what seems to be the patent applications in another comment
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230008280A1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230009028A1/en
Note that their product isn't available yet.
> Question: How much do they cost? > Answer: Price is not known yet. Production has not started and therefore not enough of them have been made to know what the cost will be. You pre-order with a down payment toward the purchase, and be placed in line. See above.
> Question: When will one be ready for me? > Answer: It will be a while yet before production in quantities begins.
> Question: How much do they cost? > Answer: Price is not known yet. Production has not started and therefore not enough of them have been made to know what the cost will be. You pre-order with a down payment toward the purchase, and be placed in line. See above.
> Question: When will one be ready for me? > Answer: It will be a while yet before production in quantities begins.
So what we have here is a vastly overcomplicated development of a perfectly ordinary lathe chuck. I guess the patented bit is the vastly improved scope for things to go wrong and jam?
adam savage just bought a new one from alibaba: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUhrF0xkhhc
And Adam’s review of it was not very stellar. He immediately had a bunch of fixes that he wanted to do to it.
Even his “stellar reviews” also contain a list of immediately planned mods. I think that’s his nature. He appears to love the purchase and not regret it at all, even despite the $2,500 price tag. He praised the tolerances and interchangeable parts, and he touted the connection he felt with the designer in China.
I don't think that's quite as damning a problem with Savage as with some people, he is an inveterate tinkerer afterall.
He seems to be the type of person who enjoys building and improving stuff as its own reward. It doesn't necessarily have to have a purpose. I don't think he bought that vice for any reason other than he thought it was cool and he wanted one.
How is this "patent pending" when fractal vises have been made for decades?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU
A special small variation can be as well covered by a patent, because it can make all the difference.
See e.g. Phillips screws vs Posidriv screws (cut the tip), or, more prominently, a normal needle vs the Singer sewing-machine needle (move the eye).
See e.g. Phillips screws vs Posidriv screws (cut the tip), or, more prominently, a normal needle vs the Singer sewing-machine needle (move the eye).
Or even more egregious: the patent game being played with insulin https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18293950/why-is-insulin-so-expe...
No clue about the patent, but this restoration video is absolutely gorgeous! I'm mesmerised
This says in description that original product is by Mantle and Co from 1920s.
The innovation protected is supposedly some adaptation for suitability as an engraving vise.
Honestly for me it falls into "generates a lot of YouTube content, but is of dubious practicality" category. Tesla valve also belongs there. Can someone give other examples?
Whoa there. Even as someone who spends only a small amount of time in a shop, a fractal vise is way more "everyday" useful than a tesla valve, or any of the things posted as a reply.
The most common methods of keeping something in place to be drilled/machined require at least one flat face in order to perform the clamping, or else extremely expensive and time consuming custom made fixtures. A fractal vise would perform an adequate job for a wide array of hobbyist level tasks. Even at ~$3000, it would pay for itself after a handful of jobs just from the lack of fixturing costs alone.
The most common methods of keeping something in place to be drilled/machined require at least one flat face in order to perform the clamping, or else extremely expensive and time consuming custom made fixtures. A fractal vise would perform an adequate job for a wide array of hobbyist level tasks. Even at ~$3000, it would pay for itself after a handful of jobs just from the lack of fixturing costs alone.
As a hobbyist, at $3000, I can say this would not pay for itself. I'd absolutely love to have one, but for hobbyist use, it would need to be O($100).
I think the real innovation would be to bring this from O($3000) to O($100). I actually think that's possible. There's a 3d-printed version which wouldn't be strong enough, but looking at this, what I think would be needed would be:
1. Simple metal disks, with holes drilled, cut in half. These could be economically made on a waterjet, or more economically, by slicing an extruded pipe into disks, drilling those disks with holes for more disks, and cutting them in half, as well as a top and bottom plate.
2. Plastic (3d printed or, in quantity, injection molded) fixtures to keep it together.
3. A classical vise (this could even be an insert)
The design in my head would have the metal pieces take 100% of the force when this is being used as a vise. However, instead of the complex metal machining to keep this thing fitting together, it would use cheap plastic pieces.
Most hobbyist can afford 0-2 tools in the O($3000) range, and while useful, this doesn't compete with having e.g. a high-quality welder, a mill, or a lathe.
Another homebrew design I found on a quick web search: https://hackaday.com/2021/07/10/fractal-vise-holds-odd-shape...
I think the real innovation would be to bring this from O($3000) to O($100). I actually think that's possible. There's a 3d-printed version which wouldn't be strong enough, but looking at this, what I think would be needed would be:
1. Simple metal disks, with holes drilled, cut in half. These could be economically made on a waterjet, or more economically, by slicing an extruded pipe into disks, drilling those disks with holes for more disks, and cutting them in half, as well as a top and bottom plate.
2. Plastic (3d printed or, in quantity, injection molded) fixtures to keep it together.
3. A classical vise (this could even be an insert)
The design in my head would have the metal pieces take 100% of the force when this is being used as a vise. However, instead of the complex metal machining to keep this thing fitting together, it would use cheap plastic pieces.
Most hobbyist can afford 0-2 tools in the O($3000) range, and while useful, this doesn't compete with having e.g. a high-quality welder, a mill, or a lathe.
Another homebrew design I found on a quick web search: https://hackaday.com/2021/07/10/fractal-vise-holds-odd-shape...
A fractal vise is largely a gimmick.
The biggest problem we encounter with vises is the phenomenon of jaw lift. There will always be some amount of play between the moveable jaws and the base of the vise, there will always be some amount of deflection, so applying clamping forces tends to force the vise jaws apart in a v-angle rather than the jaws remaining strictly parallel.
This causes problems with repeatability and reduces maximum clamping force, because the clamping force is pushing the part up and out of the vise. A lot of engineering effort goes into minimising and mitigating jaw lift.
A fractal vise will always be more susceptible to jaw lift, because the play between those recursive segments will add together. Each segment might only be slightly out of square when under clamping force, but that adds up to a large parallelism error at the clamping faces.
The practical alternative for milling would be something like an Adaptix vise, which uses multiple sliding and locking fingers to allow the clamping faces to adapt to a non-parallel part. Other alternatives would include 3D-printed soft jaws, soft jaws molded with a low-Tg polymer like polycaprolactone, or an adhesive workholding system like Blue Photon.
https://www.norgrenworkholding.com/en
The biggest problem we encounter with vises is the phenomenon of jaw lift. There will always be some amount of play between the moveable jaws and the base of the vise, there will always be some amount of deflection, so applying clamping forces tends to force the vise jaws apart in a v-angle rather than the jaws remaining strictly parallel.
This causes problems with repeatability and reduces maximum clamping force, because the clamping force is pushing the part up and out of the vise. A lot of engineering effort goes into minimising and mitigating jaw lift.
A fractal vise will always be more susceptible to jaw lift, because the play between those recursive segments will add together. Each segment might only be slightly out of square when under clamping force, but that adds up to a large parallelism error at the clamping faces.
The practical alternative for milling would be something like an Adaptix vise, which uses multiple sliding and locking fingers to allow the clamping faces to adapt to a non-parallel part. Other alternatives would include 3D-printed soft jaws, soft jaws molded with a low-Tg polymer like polycaprolactone, or an adhesive workholding system like Blue Photon.
https://www.norgrenworkholding.com/en
The Adaptix vice seems like a nice approach for a lot of use cases, but unless I'm mistaken, the fractal vice seems like it will get a better grip to prevent curved objects from turning with less pressure applied from the vice, right? i.e. if someone is working with material other than metal and doesn't want to damage it?
Regardless, I'm a little shocked that a) I've never seen either of these designs manufactured by low-cost brands like Harbor Freight, and b) the ones that are out there are so expensive. A complete Adaptix vice setup is $7000? I'm sure that makes sense for professional machinists or people working with a LOT of force, but surely a hobbyist version could be made for a sale price less than $100, maybe $200 for a heavy-duty version. It's basically just a big vice that has two smaller, perpendicular vices for its jaws, and the smaller vices have captive, sliding metal bars between their jaws, right? I'm pretty sure I could make a set of jaws that would suit my purposes out of parts that would cost no more than $25 at the hardware store. It would have saved me an awful lot of headache on small hobby projects over the years, so I'm probably just going to go ahead and hack one together.
Either of the fractal designs (classic "teeth at the ends" version versus "flat-faced", for lack of better names) seem like they would require a decent amount of fairly precise machining, so I can understand them costing more, but $2000 for an Ali Express version still seems high.
Regardless, I'm a little shocked that a) I've never seen either of these designs manufactured by low-cost brands like Harbor Freight, and b) the ones that are out there are so expensive. A complete Adaptix vice setup is $7000? I'm sure that makes sense for professional machinists or people working with a LOT of force, but surely a hobbyist version could be made for a sale price less than $100, maybe $200 for a heavy-duty version. It's basically just a big vice that has two smaller, perpendicular vices for its jaws, and the smaller vices have captive, sliding metal bars between their jaws, right? I'm pretty sure I could make a set of jaws that would suit my purposes out of parts that would cost no more than $25 at the hardware store. It would have saved me an awful lot of headache on small hobby projects over the years, so I'm probably just going to go ahead and hack one together.
Either of the fractal designs (classic "teeth at the ends" version versus "flat-faced", for lack of better names) seem like they would require a decent amount of fairly precise machining, so I can understand them costing more, but $2000 for an Ali Express version still seems high.
Haskell. (as someone with published Haskell-based research papers)
There isn't nearly enough YouTube content about Haskell, unfortunately. I've looked :(
Prince Rupert's drop is another.
There's no doubt, Prince Rupert's drop is useless. Just neat.
Surely there is something interesting that can be done with something that has such unusual properties, even if it's a corner case. It's basically a single-use "transistor" or "valve" for mechanical force.
Does the glass explode with enough force to be used as the primary detonator for a high explosive? I'm no explosives engineer, but seems like having an all-mechanical (no chemicals, no electricity) primary detonator could be useful in some situations where the system should be very stable for decades, like car airbags.
What about emergency release valves? Plug the release channel with the tough end of the drop. Use a simple mechanical system to break the weak end if the emergency conditions are met. e.g. a lever attached to a float that snaps the weak end if the fluid level is too high. That should work safely even in an environment full of flammable material.
Getting into more fanciful territory, could a professional assassin create one that was large enough to work as a hand grenade? Or encase the weak end in a jacket and then use it as a bullet with the tough end being seated in the case?[1] Seems like it could almost be a real-world version of the mythical "ice bullet", where after use there wouldn't be enough left for forensic analysis.
[1] Here's a video of someone shooting them from a shotgun, but there's no jacket or spin-stabilization to keep the weak end pointed at the target: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc9pPOrZ_0Q
Does the glass explode with enough force to be used as the primary detonator for a high explosive? I'm no explosives engineer, but seems like having an all-mechanical (no chemicals, no electricity) primary detonator could be useful in some situations where the system should be very stable for decades, like car airbags.
What about emergency release valves? Plug the release channel with the tough end of the drop. Use a simple mechanical system to break the weak end if the emergency conditions are met. e.g. a lever attached to a float that snaps the weak end if the fluid level is too high. That should work safely even in an environment full of flammable material.
Getting into more fanciful territory, could a professional assassin create one that was large enough to work as a hand grenade? Or encase the weak end in a jacket and then use it as a bullet with the tough end being seated in the case?[1] Seems like it could almost be a real-world version of the mythical "ice bullet", where after use there wouldn't be enough left for forensic analysis.
[1] Here's a video of someone shooting them from a shotgun, but there's no jacket or spin-stabilization to keep the weak end pointed at the target: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc9pPOrZ_0Q
While they're still hot you can press in a pattern along the side (from fat head to long tail), say a lengthy passkey.
You now have a physical copy of a passkey that can destroyed in an instant.
Neat. Potentially useful.
You now have a physical copy of a passkey that can destroyed in an instant.
Neat. Potentially useful.
It's only useless if you consider all art, games, and educational tools to be useless. Which is a very sad outlook.
Art: they look beautiful and can be displayed.
Game: breaking it, or watching it being broken, is a lot of fun.
Education: I would say that a huge number of people have been inspired to take up glassblowing after seeing one of these. But not only that, they also serve as a great tool to demonstrate that an object's physical properties are often unexpected based on appearance. I would say a decent amount of people have been inspired to study physics because of this too.
Art: they look beautiful and can be displayed.
Game: breaking it, or watching it being broken, is a lot of fun.
Education: I would say that a huge number of people have been inspired to take up glassblowing after seeing one of these. But not only that, they also serve as a great tool to demonstrate that an object's physical properties are often unexpected based on appearance. I would say a decent amount of people have been inspired to study physics because of this too.
Farnsworth fusor
You're completely right, but I want to build one so bad! It's up there with Jacob's Ladders as the most Sciency thing I can think of, in terms of visual effect.
And I assumed this was a Futurama reference...
Elephant toothpaste?
Hot dog electrocuters
https://youtu.be/tcqiNn8RNrk
https://youtu.be/tcqiNn8RNrk
Torodial propeller
Tensegrity table or chair.
maybe if there was youtube 100 years ago, in the category of 'generates a lot of YouTube content, but is of dubious practicality', we'd list
- so-called "monoplanes" with only a single pair of wings (if not airplanes in general),
- "wireless" broadcasting (if not radio communication in general),
- x-rays,
- "battery eliminators" (dc power supplies you plugged into the wall so you could run a radio without batteries, introduced commercially two years later),
- arc welding,
- air conditioners,
- electric cars,
- diesel ships,
- small motorboats,
- electronic music,
- hydraulic excavation equipment,
- electrical intercom systems,
- electrical door locks permitting you to buzz someone into your building,
- buses with indoor seats,
- phonograph records with more than four minutes of music per side,
- light meters for photography,
- the manufacture of ice (as opposed to sawing it from frozen rivers and lakes in winter),
- parking lots with parking spots outlined with angled lines to permit easy parking,
- cranes with endless-tread tracks,
- diesel locomotives,
- bulletproof vests,
- water slides,
- particle board,
- drive-in restaurants,
- automatic corking machines for bottling plants,
- motor homes,
- motor-operated electrical switches,
- aerial photography,
- metal ladders as light as wooden ones, and
- toothpaste.
oh and also tesla valves
most of these came from https://ia601306.us.archive.org/31/items/PopularMechanics192...
- so-called "monoplanes" with only a single pair of wings (if not airplanes in general),
- "wireless" broadcasting (if not radio communication in general),
- x-rays,
- "battery eliminators" (dc power supplies you plugged into the wall so you could run a radio without batteries, introduced commercially two years later),
- arc welding,
- air conditioners,
- electric cars,
- diesel ships,
- small motorboats,
- electronic music,
- hydraulic excavation equipment,
- electrical intercom systems,
- electrical door locks permitting you to buzz someone into your building,
- buses with indoor seats,
- phonograph records with more than four minutes of music per side,
- light meters for photography,
- the manufacture of ice (as opposed to sawing it from frozen rivers and lakes in winter),
- parking lots with parking spots outlined with angled lines to permit easy parking,
- cranes with endless-tread tracks,
- diesel locomotives,
- bulletproof vests,
- water slides,
- particle board,
- drive-in restaurants,
- automatic corking machines for bottling plants,
- motor homes,
- motor-operated electrical switches,
- aerial photography,
- metal ladders as light as wooden ones, and
- toothpaste.
oh and also tesla valves
most of these came from https://ia601306.us.archive.org/31/items/PopularMechanics192...
New rust projects
[deleted]
Nixie tubes.
It’s like the gator grip socket wrench https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&sxsrf=A...
I got one as a gift and have never successfully used it despite trying really hard. It might do ok with thick bolt heads and not a lot of torque but in my experience it either doesn't catch properly or slips.
Does anyone know how the dovetails of the individual jaw pieces are machined on a curved surface? I can’t figure it out even using a 4 or 5 axis CNC.
I must be missing the difficulty. It looks to me like you could turn those dovetails on a lathe. You cut them into round stock before sawing it in half and facing. The female dovetails are done directly on the OD of the round stock. For the male dovetails, it would require mounting the work offset (eg. on a faceplate); alternatively, you could do it more awkwardly on a mill with the tool offset in the spindle like a boring bar. Either way, it could be done with manual machines.
The male dovetails might've been made with something resembling a hole saw, but with the teeth angled appropriately.
That's fine for the outer pieces, but the ones they mount into have dovetails on both inner crescents. I can't see how you could turn those on a lathe without some weird offset going on.
Well, yes, that's what you do. It's called eccentric turning. With that much of an offset, a normal chuck wouldn't work, you'd have to use a faceplate.
http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/tips/lathetech/eccentrics/e...
http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/tips/lathetech/eccentrics/e...
That explains it! I didn't know about faceplates - thanks for the info.
>> For the male dovetails, it would require mounting the work offset (eg. on a faceplate)
Exactly.. turned on lathe, millwork if not 5 axis, hardened, and then ground to finish.
Hand Tool Rescue restored one of these and he ends up having to rebuild some of the semicircle pieces. It's a fun watch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU
The way the little arms sorta appear to reach out while it tightens is kind of adorable.
Fractals always seem to have oddly biological looking behavior, for things made with such simple rules.
Fractals always seem to have oddly biological looking behavior, for things made with such simple rules.
[deleted]
I don't actually know, but maybe electric discharge machining?
Not entirely fractal, just third-order! Fourth-order would likely not be sturdy enough though.
But cool, while also practical.
But cool, while also practical.
This post reminded me that someone used the fractal vise configuration to construct a very mediocre chair: https://youtu.be/e8pvjEHAt6U
Ironic that the video of the vise is recorded handheld it seems
This is the stuff the patent system is _supposed_ to protect
Maybe in 1912 https://patents.google.com/patent/US1059545
It's literally the opposite of what patents were supposed to protect.
They are trying repackage an old technology they did not create and are threatening to sue everyone else making it. This product already existed before these "inventor" were even born. The original innovator who made this product already profited from it and are long gone from the market.
They are trying repackage an old technology they did not create and are threatening to sue everyone else making it. This product already existed before these "inventor" were even born. The original innovator who made this product already profited from it and are long gone from the market.
It did, from 1912-1930.
A Chinese machinist is already selling these on Alibaba while the American machinist attempts to repatent something invented a century ago.
One wants to produce a tool that helps others make cool stuff, one wants to rip off an inventors design to try to pass it off as his own.
This is everything the patent system is supposed to protect AGAINST. Differences in societal values I guess.
One wants to produce a tool that helps others make cool stuff, one wants to rip off an inventors design to try to pass it off as his own.
This is everything the patent system is supposed to protect AGAINST. Differences in societal values I guess.
Today at the age of 52 I learned that Americans spell "vice" differently.
Americans also have a vice with a c but that refers to drugs, gambling, and similar acts (i.e. vice cops are the cops on anti-narcotics assignments, like in the old show Miami Vice) or in stuff like Vice President (Kamala Harris).
Have you never experienced the engineering marvel that is Vise-Grips?
No, we still use Mole wrenches over here!
What, not a mole spanner?
Interestingly, no! For example see:
https://blog.jfallen.org/2016/12/26/newport-home-of-the-mole...
https://blog.jfallen.org/2016/12/26/newport-home-of-the-mole...
You can even 3D print one: https://www.printables.com/model/180109-fractal-vise
Normal vises just have jaws, but this one looks like it has teeth.
Rare Antique Fractal Vise [Restoration] - Hand Tool Rescue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeOgGt_oWU
They can be ordered today for approx. $1500, url: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Fractal-Vise_16003185...
Very cool. Does anyone who uses a vice a lot think this is beneficial, or more gimmicky?
I don't fully understand who this style vice is actually for, and despite looking very cool, there's a reason nobody has these things 100+ years after their invention.
A woodworking vice typically has softjaws and despite the flexible-ish nature of this vice they still would leave marks in wood so not much help in the woodshop.
A metalworking shop typically uses vices to hold work that they are going to beat on with a hammer, lean on it with a pry bar, attack with a torch, and generally use as a super-secure hold while applying a lot of forces to the work. The vice here has a lot of precision moving parts which wouldn't really hold up to that sort of use case.
A machinist vice is a precision tool and the fixed jaw is a reference surface for the work. With suitable stops, one can use a machinist vice to place work into a predictable position time after time ("repeatability"). This style of vice can't do that either.
I could almost maybe see this used for small parts fabrication on a drill press maybe? The OP uses it as workholding while engraving which feels a little contrived and there are other cheaper/faster/easier solutions out there but sure maybe?
A woodworking vice typically has softjaws and despite the flexible-ish nature of this vice they still would leave marks in wood so not much help in the woodshop.
A metalworking shop typically uses vices to hold work that they are going to beat on with a hammer, lean on it with a pry bar, attack with a torch, and generally use as a super-secure hold while applying a lot of forces to the work. The vice here has a lot of precision moving parts which wouldn't really hold up to that sort of use case.
A machinist vice is a precision tool and the fixed jaw is a reference surface for the work. With suitable stops, one can use a machinist vice to place work into a predictable position time after time ("repeatability"). This style of vice can't do that either.
I could almost maybe see this used for small parts fabrication on a drill press maybe? The OP uses it as workholding while engraving which feels a little contrived and there are other cheaper/faster/easier solutions out there but sure maybe?
I’ve got one that I printed in PLA. It’s useful for holding arbitrary parts in arbitrary orientations while I paint, glue, or do other post processing work on them — installing electronics sometimes — that sort of thing.
No force is intended to be applied at all, beyond gravity.
A dedicated jig is always better, but takes time and effort to create. This thing always works moderately well.
No force is intended to be applied at all, beyond gravity.
A dedicated jig is always better, but takes time and effort to create. This thing always works moderately well.
My solution for that sort of use case has been TPU softjaws for existing vices (woodworking and metalworking). I will say this: it sure is a neat mechanism and I've thought of printing my own just to play with it. You got any pics of your setup, it sounds cool!
I think this would be a pretty great work holder for a metal milling or CNC job. Throw some foam in between the teeth and the work and it should work pretty well for wood CNC jobs as well.
It’s usually a pain to hold irregular parts without a flat surface. In fact, I can’t think of a good way to do it at all.
It’s usually a pain to hold irregular parts without a flat surface. In fact, I can’t think of a good way to do it at all.
For machine work, the lack of repeatability is a killer. Maybe for hobby use on a home wood router sort of setup, where you are going to manually indicate in each job anyway? In a production situation, repeatable workholding is not optional or you're going to burn loads of time on setup.
> It’s usually a pain to hold irregular parts without a flat surface. In fact, I can’t think of a good way to do it at all.
Jigs/fixtures, side clamps, strap clamps, toe clamps, Mitee-Bite-style off axis cams, plenty of options. There are commercial manufacturers of flexible workholding solutions similar in spirit to the OP but those are generally targeted at QC purposes where you'll be running a CMM of some sort over the part and so no reference surface on the fixture is needed: https://engtechgroup.com/technical-partner/hyfore-workholdin...
> It’s usually a pain to hold irregular parts without a flat surface. In fact, I can’t think of a good way to do it at all.
Jigs/fixtures, side clamps, strap clamps, toe clamps, Mitee-Bite-style off axis cams, plenty of options. There are commercial manufacturers of flexible workholding solutions similar in spirit to the OP but those are generally targeted at QC purposes where you'll be running a CMM of some sort over the part and so no reference surface on the fixture is needed: https://engtechgroup.com/technical-partner/hyfore-workholdin...
Yeah, I’m definitely speaking to hobby grade workholding but at about $1.5k that’s where this would be used anyways. Also why wouldn’t it be repeatable? If you have a stop set up on one “face” of the fractal vise, wouldn’t it always hold the item in the same configuration (at least theoretically)?
I’m not sure what mitee bite is but the other suggestions are not realistic. Side clamps wouldn't be able to hold something shaped like a 2D Christmas tree rigidly. Strap clamps are not nearly rigid enough even for hobby grade work. Toe clamps won’t work for anything rounded etc. All of the above can be held with the fractal vise.
I’m not sure what mitee bite is but the other suggestions are not realistic. Side clamps wouldn't be able to hold something shaped like a 2D Christmas tree rigidly. Strap clamps are not nearly rigid enough even for hobby grade work. Toe clamps won’t work for anything rounded etc. All of the above can be held with the fractal vise.
Hey man! Legendary machine shop Youtuber This Old Tony just release a new video that made me think of you :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FVavOy4GUw
Here he's attempting a side clamp design but demonstrates several other solutions commonly used for the home machine shop. Hope you find it helpful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FVavOy4GUw
Here he's attempting a side clamp design but demonstrates several other solutions commonly used for the home machine shop. Hope you find it helpful!
Well, as a final argument I would ask you look into any hobby or commercial or industrial machine shop on any scale and note the complete absence of these vices, despite the original patent being issued 100 years ago.
I use strap clamps on a hobby mill to hold steel while being machined, they are plenty rigid.
I use strap clamps on a hobby mill to hold steel while being machined, they are plenty rigid.
Since you've used this repeatedly: it's spelled "vise" not "vice"
it says it right there in the website. it's for engraving so definitely not a machinist tool, more like a jewel-crafter or watchmaker tool. Engraving does not apply a lot of forces generally.
Would be nice if it had some springs to have the different parts try to go back to their original position by themselves.
I put a deposit down a year ago and still haven't heard anything.
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Don't really know much about this area, but this comes across as aggressive, overreaching, and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.