America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars(theatlantic.com)

46 pointsby thelastgallon2 tahun yang lalu46 comments

America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/01/electric-cars-cheaper-china-than-america/677290/

50 comments

swalling2 tahun yang lalu

We don't need a $1,200 Chinese electric deathtrap to accelerate EV buying, we need a better charging network. Range anxiety and reliability are the factors that have put EV purchases in a slump (not to mention interest rates).

The article itself acknowledges this briefly: "one of the biggest challenges that EVs face here is not the cars; it’s the chargers. In America, charging stations are still too hard to find, and they are too unreliable. China’s charging network is much more extensive than America’s, even in rural areas. Ash Sutcliffe, of the massive Chinese carmaker Geely, told me that in the eastern part of the country, you’re generally never more than a kilometer away from a charging station".

jwells892 tahun yang lalu

Maybe not $1200 but something in like an electrified Toyota Yaris/Mazda 2 hatchback the ballpark of $15000-$25000 sure would be nice.

I like the look of the 2024 Fiat 500e but that $34000 MSRP is difficult to justify for a practical little town errand car.

morepork2 tahun yang lalu

That's what this Chinese manufacturers provide.

Here in New Zealand you can get a GWM Ora for 43k (26k USD) or MG4 for 47k (29k USD). These both include 15% GST.

If they could export to the US without penalties, I'd expect the prices to be even lower due to economies of scale in a much larger market.

accountinhn2 tahun yang lalu

Bolt EV is around $27K and believe Nissan Leaf is also in the same price range. So, with taxes you are look at max $30K. If you qualify for the federal tax credit, then you should be able to get that well within your price range.

jwells892 tahun yang lalu

Bolt is discontinued and dealerships in my area don’t sell them for under $31k. Leaf also isn’t long for this world, is based on an ancient platform, and starts at $30k in my area. I don’t qualify for the tax credit.

Buttons8402 tahun yang lalu

Lots of people who bike around would like a $1,200 EV I bet. We don't currently care too much about the death trap that is a bicycle on American roads, so a Chinese EV death trap should be okay too.

swalling2 tahun yang lalu

The thing is they already have that. It’s called an e-bike.

Lammy2 tahun yang lalu

I like not getting wet when it rains.

srg02 tahun yang lalu

Citroen Ami. Not 1200, but probably the closest to an e-bike with a roof.

powerapple2 tahun yang lalu

An EV with motor generator, charge at home, and fill your tank when you have to make a longer trip just in case, problem solved. It should work for many scenarios but not all of them. Say the battery covers 300km, with a tank of gas it can cover 600-900km, should be enough for everyone.

m4632 tahun yang lalu

Looks like they are all $10k anyway

https://www.changliev.com/

datavirtue2 tahun yang lalu

Americans need 20" rims or it ain't happening. Unfortunately that drops the range down to ten miles.

AtlasBarfed2 tahun yang lalu

The 1200$ chinese deathtrap that doesn't exceed 25mph is likely safer than:

- all golf cars

- all ATVs

- all mopeds

- all motorcycles

[deleted]2 tahun yang lalu

biotopia2 tahun yang lalu

agreed, also, what is with all these articles written/submitted in favor of Chinese EVs in US? do they not know we are currently fighting an indirect war with China, with China supplying Russia's invasion against Europe being supplied by US? do they not know China is basically the backer for Houthi, Iran, North Korea, and Russia?

matthewdgreen2 tahun yang lalu

China is kicking our ass in the technologies of the future (batteries, EV, renewable energy, nuclear.) If you believe China is a threat, then you should absolutely be reading articles like this one. Historically the US won wars by leading in the manufacture of this tech, and we should be fully aware of the consequences of losing that edge. It’s still not too late for us to do something about it.

aurareturn2 tahun yang lalu

  agreed, also, what is with all these articles written/submitted in favor of Chinese EVs in US? do they not know we are currently fighting an indirect war with China, with China supplying Russia's invasion against Europe being supplied by US? do they not know China is basically the backer for Houthi, Iran, North Korea, and Russia?

A single article that doesn't portray China negatively in the US media and people are going crazy.

grandma_tea2 tahun yang lalu

I didn't read the whole article because of the paywall, but I was taking it from the angle of "why can't we encourage this kind of development in America?" As opposed to "we should import Chinese cars."

I am frustrated by it because I feel like we could be doing better. I mean, the best thing would be to invest in public transport but I would also be happy with more cheap car offerings.

ralph842 tahun yang lalu

The answer to “why can’t we do things China does” is we decided a long time ago that we value environmental and worker protection more than China does.

CharlieDigital2 tahun yang lalu

I don't see how China focusing on building EV cars is somehow weakening worker protections or damaging the environment more than building ICE cars. They have issues, but none of that is related to the topic of the article.

dragonmost2 tahun yang lalu

You can sell your cars much cheaper if you barely pay the workers and don't invest in safety equipment.

ZeroGravitas2 tahun yang lalu

This question has been investigated fairly thoroughly for PV solar and scale of manufacturing and government support are far bigger factors.

Remember PV and EV are technology, getting smaller, cheaper, better as it iterates.

defrost2 tahun yang lalu

With any luck the Nordic sympathy strikes will sort out the pay and safety issues.

snowpid2 tahun yang lalu

US doesnt have strong "value environmental and worker protection". Btw, are there more EV in Europe btw?

mlsu2 tahun yang lalu

It's only a deathtrap because driving in the USA you have to share a massive high speed interstate with 2.5 ton SUVs and pickups. With lower speed local driving (the type that would be enabled by more density), and without subsidizing monstrous american-style cars, I think these smaller EVs would be quite reasonable safety wise.

SXX2 tahun yang lalu

Cheap chinese cars are unsafe. It's a fact.

Collision with 3-ton concrete motorway barrier will be deathly in any country.

mlsu2 tahun yang lalu

So are bicycles, if you ride them outside of a protected lane.

30mph collision with a barrier is probably quite survivable in one of these things. Obviously 70mph not so.

Unsafe depends on your environment. I'm perfectly safe biking about 3/4ths of the way to work. As soon as I get off the protected bikeway, it's a deathtrap.

aurareturn2 tahun yang lalu

My previous comment on what I saw when I visited Shenzen last year:

I'm quite convinced that China is going to dominate the EV market in the next decade. I've been strolling around Shenzen for the last 2 weeks. By my estimation, roughly 50%-70% of cars on the road are already EVs. 100% of my Didi (China's Uber) rides have been EVs. I could be wrong but Shenzen might have banned new ICE cars already.

I went into a mall in Shenzen and noticed that Huawei had a store and they made electric cars.[0] This was a shock to me because I always thought that Huawei was a phone and networking company. I was impressed with the thoughtfulness of the interior and the build quality of the Huawei cars. The build quality felt better than Teslas.

The shock factor is that a phone/networking company is capable of pushing out decent quality EVs already. It seems like there is a huge build up of EV talent here along with an unmatched supply chain to mass manufacture EV cars.

So while Tesla is struggling to mass produce the cybertruck, China doesn't seem like it's having any issues mass producing EVs. Heck, US media made me think that mass manufacturing EVs is as hard as building the large hadron collider. But in China, every random company and grandma seem to be designing and producing EVs.

PS. It's not just Shenzen. I also went to more rural places in Guangdong and there were still around 20-30% EVs on the road. Guangzhou, another Tier 1 city next to Shenzen was probably around 30 - 40% EVs by my estimation.

[0]It seems like Huawei makes the platform of the car I saw (Aito M7) but the brand of the car is Aito.

hollywood_court2 tahun yang lalu

We miss out on some of the best cars period. I would love to be able to buy a Hilux or a real Land Cruiser or even a Jiminy.

defrost2 tahun yang lalu

The US is getting the all new singing dancing Toyota Land Cruiser (2024) https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/land-cruiser

but not (yet, that I know of) the new old Land Cruiser (1984) (2024) rerelease https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46001237/toyota-land-crui...

If the Land Cruiser 70 is your idea of a "real" Land Cruiser then you'll need a friend in Japan, Australia, or South Africa (for now).

hollywood_court2 tahun yang lalu

I daily drive a 100 Series and I have for many years.

The new Land Cruiser would never be an option for me but I am strongly considering the new GX for a commuter while keeping the 100 Series for recreation.

Yes the 70 is what I would love to have.

[deleted]2 tahun yang lalu

anon-sre-srm2 tahun yang lalu

Yell at Toyota to go through homologation because they aren't up to US standards.

lmz2 tahun yang lalu

It's not a standards issue as the Lexus LX is basically the same thing, they probably think it's better to only sell the Lexus to Americans.

hollywood_court2 tahun yang lalu

The LX always sold better than the Land Cruiser for some reason. I see 100 and 200 Series LXs all over my town. I know of dozens of each. But I am only aware of maybe 10 total Land Cruisers.

When I ran an import repair shop, we had plenty of clients with the LX but myself and 2 other clients were the only ones with Land Cruisers.

leoh2 tahun yang lalu

You know what I’m glad to be missing out on? How cruel and intense and demanding China is on its middle and lower classes that allows them to produce goods this cheaply.

aurareturn2 tahun yang lalu

Don't have a choice. China fell behind for 200 years, part of it internal conflict, and part of it colonialism/European conquests. It takes generations to pull out of poverty and unfortunately, a lot of Chinese this generation still pays the price.

Part of the issue is that the US, G7, and other developed countries do not want China to become a service/tech export company, which would greatly improve living conditions for the middle and lower class that you mentioned. They want China to continue to be the world's manufacturer so that they have less competition. The public smearing, anti-China propaganda is part of this strategy in my opinion. Hence, this article about how Chinese EVs can't come to the US despite how good they've become.

leoh2 tahun yang lalu

Ok cool

[deleted]2 tahun yang lalu

DaveExeter2 tahun yang lalu

https://archive.ph/KyAg7

ranulo2 tahun yang lalu

You are also missing out on small european EVs. the VW E-UP and ID.3, the Renault Zoe and soon the Renault 3 and Citroen e-c3 are all quite nice.

Especially the Zoe became a cult car for early EV adapters.

anon-sre-srm2 tahun yang lalu

Lack of homologation is why. Every car manufacturer who wants to sell in the US must do it.

wcoenen2 tahun yang lalu

We have homologated Chinese EVs here in Europe. The actual reason that China does not export cars to the US is a 27.5% import tariff put in place by the Trump administration.

https://www.politico.eu/article/china-us-europe-electric-car...

EdwardDiego2 tahun yang lalu

What do they have to do exactly to get that permission?

anonreeeeplor2 tahun yang lalu

Elon Musk needs trade barriers to remain in place. And he needs trade barriers for space and robotics.

Buying Twitter, the primary location for political disagreements and communications, is a sort of cover bet to negotiate later.

Interesting to note Trump staying away from Twitter altogether. He likely doesn’t want to give anyone, including Musk, and leverage or perceived leverage over him.

What is interesting is he has likely secured the nomination and may be able to win without Twitter, which would be a major signal that he is uncontrollable

JumpCrisscross2 tahun yang lalu

> he needs trade barriers for space

Sorry, what? SpaceX is a generation ahead of any other launch vehicle in use or development the world around.

WhereIsTheTruth2 tahun yang lalu

> SpaceX told the U.S. Trade Representative in a letter dated Dec. 10 and first reported last week that European subsidies to Arianespace, Europe's primary space launch provider, created an "imbalanced competitive advantage that threatens fair trade".

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1QF2AR/

They want to hinder competition

It's moving very fast, yet you don't hear about them attempts here in the west

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/ARxkXFp3Li8R0JgXBHy-Sw

Without subsidies, it's impossible to achieve, it's just like with nuclear power plants, if the public is not involved, nobody will want to invest, Musk knows that very well, he love them subsidies

He also wouldn't be able to be competitive if the government didn't offer grants/benefits for EVs

JumpCrisscross2 tahun yang lalu

> want to hinder competition

Of course. Everyone does. If you don’t, you’re an idiot or a non-participant in our market economy.

Very different from SpaceX “need[ing] trade barriers.”

> here in the west

ArianeSpace is French/EU.

> wouldn't be able to be competitive if the government didn't offer grants/benefits for EVs

SpaceX would. They wouldn’t exist without them. But their marginal economics don’t depend on them.

anonreeeeplor2 tahun yang lalu

Chinese will catch them soon, the way the Chinese caught their electric car efforts.

Having an entire nation state level effort, with far more capital and far better trained workforce, which China has, and the ability to copy the leader.

China will surpass SpaceX in a handful of years. The process is already underway.

In the whole it might be a good thing because it will probably force the United States to actually give a sh*t about competing in space, and subsidize SpaceX heavily.