Embrace hope, reject assisted suicide(thecritic.co.uk)
thecritic.co.uk
Embrace hope, reject assisted suicide
https://thecritic.co.uk/embrace-hope-reject-assisted-suicide/
22 comments
Plus there is another consideration, probably more so in the US.
If you are terminal, do you want all your savings to go to health care, or would you want to ensure you children or spouse get what you had saved over the years.
To me, if terminal and needing lots of healthcare, I think you are better of tossing in the towel. Trying to stick it out could put your family into poverty.
If you are terminal, do you want all your savings to go to health care, or would you want to ensure you children or spouse get what you had saved over the years.
To me, if terminal and needing lots of healthcare, I think you are better of tossing in the towel. Trying to stick it out could put your family into poverty.
Pragmatically, it's true. It is also very sad, and in itself I can easily see how it puts pressure on people.
It's a hard problem.
It's a hard problem.
> "Legalising assisted suicide would open a Pandora’s Box of horrors"
Well, non-legal suicide is a huge problem... in other words, people are making this choice whether it is legal or not, at least in some capacities.
Having a legal avenue for someone to go down might actually put them in contact with warm humans or connections that change the outcome.
But Pandora's Box is a weak-ass argument & doesn't reflect reality where legalized suicide exists and no Pandora's Box has appeared.
Well, non-legal suicide is a huge problem... in other words, people are making this choice whether it is legal or not, at least in some capacities.
Having a legal avenue for someone to go down might actually put them in contact with warm humans or connections that change the outcome.
But Pandora's Box is a weak-ass argument & doesn't reflect reality where legalized suicide exists and no Pandora's Box has appeared.
Several US states that have legalized assisted suicide have polled people who opted for it, to better understand the reasons why it's pursued. [1]
Interestingly, pain is not among the top reasons.
Instead, the top reasons are around a loss of independence (having to depend on other people for care) and a loss of dignity (feeling embarrassed about having to depend on other people for care).
This IS the Pandora's Box, already opened. Our culture is hostile to people who are dependent on others for care. It leads people to worry that they will be a burden on others if they need support. It leads us to look at people with disabilities and think, "I'd rather be dead than in their position." The box has been open for decades, and a rise in acceptance of assisted suicide is just one of many related outcomes.
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2265314/
Interestingly, pain is not among the top reasons.
Instead, the top reasons are around a loss of independence (having to depend on other people for care) and a loss of dignity (feeling embarrassed about having to depend on other people for care).
This IS the Pandora's Box, already opened. Our culture is hostile to people who are dependent on others for care. It leads people to worry that they will be a burden on others if they need support. It leads us to look at people with disabilities and think, "I'd rather be dead than in their position." The box has been open for decades, and a rise in acceptance of assisted suicide is just one of many related outcomes.
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2265314/
I don’t think not wanting to endure years of other people having to clean your own feces off of you is a Pandora’s box, I’d take the out if that’s what I had to imminently look forward to
I wonder how much of this is due to sampling bias.
Folks who're eg depressed tend to "do less" and people in pain or with other such chronic ailments (eg ME/CFS) may have less energy to begin with to "spend".
In a survey, if the effort required to answer isn't very close to zero, you would expect to see lesser responses from such people; however they may be "typically" represented in terms of suicides.
In contrast, otherwise/formerly "healthy" people would not have this issue causing them to be underrepresented in the survey.
Folks who're eg depressed tend to "do less" and people in pain or with other such chronic ailments (eg ME/CFS) may have less energy to begin with to "spend".
In a survey, if the effort required to answer isn't very close to zero, you would expect to see lesser responses from such people; however they may be "typically" represented in terms of suicides.
In contrast, otherwise/formerly "healthy" people would not have this issue causing them to be underrepresented in the survey.
You are invalidating the pain the dependent people feel. Pain they would like to escape, clearly if they're reaching for this option.
You also define dignity as embarrassment which makes me think you don't understand the concept as it relates to the loss someone feels when facing the end of their life.
As an aside: People were terrified of gay marriage and the argument was repeatedly made that legalizing same-sex marriage was going to open a pandora's box.
At the time, I knew this was nonsense because my home state had same-sex civil unions for decades and there had been no problems except a few angry religious people (they weren't forced into gay marriages they just didn't want other people to have that option)
You also define dignity as embarrassment which makes me think you don't understand the concept as it relates to the loss someone feels when facing the end of their life.
As an aside: People were terrified of gay marriage and the argument was repeatedly made that legalizing same-sex marriage was going to open a pandora's box.
At the time, I knew this was nonsense because my home state had same-sex civil unions for decades and there had been no problems except a few angry religious people (they weren't forced into gay marriages they just didn't want other people to have that option)
[deleted]
[deleted]
I don't agree. At all. My father is right now in a very bad state: he can't recognize me, doesn't know if he is at home or in the hospital, is being fed thru a tube, and entirely dependent. He no longer has the mental ability left to decide on this on his own, but if he were, I am sure he would choose to go rather than live like this. He is not in excessive pain - he just has nothing left that can be called "life".
Unfortunately, in the place we live, there is no legal framework for choosing this anyway. So he is unable to chose, and I am unable to chose for him either. I absolutely hate to have him be in this state - such a brilliant man, reduced to this.
He had a (brain)stroke, and my grandfather on the mothers side also died of a stroke. So genetically speaking, my chances look (relatively) bleak. I know for a fact I won't want to go-on if I ever reach anywhere as bad as his current condition. But there's no option available to me either. I will have to suffer similarly, and the people I end up being dependent on will have to suffer similarly and watch me suffer similarly.
I think being able to decide when you want to "go" is and should be a fundamental right - a natural right - every person should have. And we would, if it weren't for this false religious crap being foisted upon the world.
Unfortunately, in the place we live, there is no legal framework for choosing this anyway. So he is unable to chose, and I am unable to chose for him either. I absolutely hate to have him be in this state - such a brilliant man, reduced to this.
He had a (brain)stroke, and my grandfather on the mothers side also died of a stroke. So genetically speaking, my chances look (relatively) bleak. I know for a fact I won't want to go-on if I ever reach anywhere as bad as his current condition. But there's no option available to me either. I will have to suffer similarly, and the people I end up being dependent on will have to suffer similarly and watch me suffer similarly.
I think being able to decide when you want to "go" is and should be a fundamental right - a natural right - every person should have. And we would, if it weren't for this false religious crap being foisted upon the world.
Father passed away today morning. At least he is not suffering anymore. I don't know why I am posting this here. Just a tribute, maybe.
He was born to poor parents, and the eldest of 7 children. His father could never have paid for his education, but he has brilliant from the very start, and they lived in a village town, where the school had been built by a kind, local rich man, and my father studied his entire life on scholarship. He was the first person from his district to earn a masters degree (in electronics), and in his era, his bachelors and masters were each earned from the very top university of the country. Again, all on scholarship. Started a job as a professor, but quickly switched, first to a premier research labs, working on the very first satellites/payloads built in my country, and then later to being a technocrat in the state government: his qualification and ability were so high that he joined as the ranking technocrat of the state, and remained that till his retirement. Right around his job change, he got married and had three children - me and my two sisters.
During all this, he also earned an executive MBA.
After retirement, he didn't feel like sitting idle, and started a new career as the head of department (for two departments: computer engineering and electrical engineering) at a good, well regarded engineering college/university. He did this for 12 years, when he had a brain stroke, and then I asked him to not work anymore.
He recovered from the brain stroke, but more strokes/falls happened at a steady pace. He passed away at 79. The end was pretty painful, and I wish he had not had to go thru all that.
He lived a simple, harsh life - He never cared for comforts, or money, or luxuries. But he was genuinely content. In the end, all he really asked for was to "lets go home" (from the hospital). Fortunately, we did manage to get him discharged and his final few days were at home.
be at peace, pop. I love you.
He was born to poor parents, and the eldest of 7 children. His father could never have paid for his education, but he has brilliant from the very start, and they lived in a village town, where the school had been built by a kind, local rich man, and my father studied his entire life on scholarship. He was the first person from his district to earn a masters degree (in electronics), and in his era, his bachelors and masters were each earned from the very top university of the country. Again, all on scholarship. Started a job as a professor, but quickly switched, first to a premier research labs, working on the very first satellites/payloads built in my country, and then later to being a technocrat in the state government: his qualification and ability were so high that he joined as the ranking technocrat of the state, and remained that till his retirement. Right around his job change, he got married and had three children - me and my two sisters.
During all this, he also earned an executive MBA.
After retirement, he didn't feel like sitting idle, and started a new career as the head of department (for two departments: computer engineering and electrical engineering) at a good, well regarded engineering college/university. He did this for 12 years, when he had a brain stroke, and then I asked him to not work anymore.
He recovered from the brain stroke, but more strokes/falls happened at a steady pace. He passed away at 79. The end was pretty painful, and I wish he had not had to go thru all that.
He lived a simple, harsh life - He never cared for comforts, or money, or luxuries. But he was genuinely content. In the end, all he really asked for was to "lets go home" (from the hospital). Fortunately, we did manage to get him discharged and his final few days were at home.
be at peace, pop. I love you.
I moved to Switzerland about 15 years ago and seeing some specific stories about assisted suicide did weird me out a bit. Specifically stories about people doing it because they are the last living person in their family or because they're just tired and done with life. But now it no longer bothers me. If they're done with life then so be it. It's not my business.
(Also it's not exactly assisted. They set everything up for you but you're the one that pushes the button)
(Also it's not exactly assisted. They set everything up for you but you're the one that pushes the button)
We have a Pandora'a box of horrors already in our existing end of life care.
Don't tell me that to do with my life.
Doesn’t this mainly affect people who might otherwise choose to end their lives but are unable to do so because of a disability or similar limitation?
Since we are bringing law into this, have all the LLM's been neutered so they can not tell a person the dozen or so entirely painless and cheap ways to self delete? Do the LLM's detect this and try to intervene or do they just answer the questions?
Physically assisted or otherwise is not really a factor, quadriplegics aside. Any glove wearing individual can set objects on a table and walk away.
Physically assisted or otherwise is not really a factor, quadriplegics aside. Any glove wearing individual can set objects on a table and walk away.
I think the author is wrong. If you don't have agency over your own decision to live or die you cannot be free.
There is an argument for narrowly tailored assisted suicide as there is evidence that many regret their attempts, however the moralizing should be left out of the equation entirely.
There is an argument for narrowly tailored assisted suicide as there is evidence that many regret their attempts, however the moralizing should be left out of the equation entirely.
There's a difference between allowing assisted suicide and encouraging it.
https://www.dordt.edu/in-all-things/the-cautionary-tale-of-e...
https://www.dordt.edu/in-all-things/the-cautionary-tale-of-e...
I suspect this is what those pushing these laws wanted all along. They talk about dying in dignity and all that but seems it's much more about normalizing human culling.
Nonsense. It is quite normal in civilized countries already and no Pandora's box or other weirdness; just people wanting a human ending instead of the alternative horrors that will await them, either because of physical or mental or both illnesses.
Forcing other people to live hopeless lives in pain for your own morality is evil, in my opinion.