Russian artist and Putin critic shot dead in Poland(bbc.com)
bbc.com
Russian artist and Putin critic shot dead in Poland
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrzd5g6k2o
83 comments
That's so sad. I just looked up his artwork and it's hilarious. RIP Semyon Skrepetsky
as Russia unravels further expect to see more of this
There is a Streisand affect at play here. Putin dislikes the criticism but of course far more people will be now exposed to the work of Semyon Skrepetsky via this news cycle.
The KGB/FSB mafia is kind of in a state of war with the other european countries.
These executions follow a very similar pattern. Two other I can think of are Selimchan Changoschwili in 2019 and Maxim Kusminow in 2024; with regards to the latter, perma-drunk Dmitry Medvedev babbled about "a dog's death to a dog" nonsense. Tie to this the genocide Putin commits presently against Ukrainians.
I think there is no real "reasoning" possible with the current regime. It's not just Putin, naturally, but a whole parasitic society sitting and feeding on top of this mafia structure. Naturally a direct war is not really possible due to the mafia having access to nukes, but there has to be a complete shift - the diplomatic axis has to exist (no alternative to that from an objective view) while the military side also has to be strengthened, not only in Ukraine but all countries being close to Russia and the Belarus satellite state. Putin will never change as long as he is still alive. And even when he is gone, I have a slight feeling that it is more likely that one of the mafia group will take over anyway.
These executions follow a very similar pattern. Two other I can think of are Selimchan Changoschwili in 2019 and Maxim Kusminow in 2024; with regards to the latter, perma-drunk Dmitry Medvedev babbled about "a dog's death to a dog" nonsense. Tie to this the genocide Putin commits presently against Ukrainians.
I think there is no real "reasoning" possible with the current regime. It's not just Putin, naturally, but a whole parasitic society sitting and feeding on top of this mafia structure. Naturally a direct war is not really possible due to the mafia having access to nukes, but there has to be a complete shift - the diplomatic axis has to exist (no alternative to that from an objective view) while the military side also has to be strengthened, not only in Ukraine but all countries being close to Russia and the Belarus satellite state. Putin will never change as long as he is still alive. And even when he is gone, I have a slight feeling that it is more likely that one of the mafia group will take over anyway.
>Naturally a direct war is not really possible due to the mafia having access to nukes
There is a bit of a war going on just now and the way to get back at Russia is to support Ukraine. Ideally to actually win rather than all the escalation management, Russia mustn't lose wimpery.
There is a bit of a war going on just now and the way to get back at Russia is to support Ukraine. Ideally to actually win rather than all the escalation management, Russia mustn't lose wimpery.
headline makes it seem obvious who did it, but he didn't fall out of a window... so I'm going to wait for an investigation before I make up my mind
Russian assassins on foreign soil are also known to shot people during the day in broad daylight, just as [0] did in 2019 in Berlin Tiergarten park. Unfortunately, he was exchanged and is living freely after only a few years in german prison.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov
So who did the Germans get in exchange? Was it worth it like a basketball player for the Lord of War?
As for German citizens: a red cross employee, an immigration lawyer, a 'political scientist' and a tourist who apparently tried to smuggle six gummy bears coated with canabis oil into Russia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange
(also various US and UK citizens)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange
(also various US and UK citizens)
Prisoners exchanges should be illegal if the crimes are disproportionate as in this case.
I think saving one of your own who suffers because of protecting your country should take way more priority over simple vengeance.
It's not "simple vengeance". It's deterrence. If you don't punish assassins, assassinations will increase in expectation.
There are other ways you can deter though. Like actions against the government responsible rather than the individual.
Bullshit. Who says anything about punishment. They are being punished, then there MAY come a choice. If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. And if you do not save your own spies given a chance, the next one you want to hire will direct you straight to the place where the sun does not shine
> If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons.
Yes, those create awful incentives and should absolutely not be legal.
> And if you do not save your own spies given a chance
One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers.
Yes, those create awful incentives and should absolutely not be legal.
> And if you do not save your own spies given a chance
One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers.
>"One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers."
I strongly disagree for it to be used as a general approach for either spies or kidnappers. And who says it is exactly the cost? It is all coulda shoulda woulda and depends upon the particular situation.
I strongly disagree for it to be used as a general approach for either spies or kidnappers. And who says it is exactly the cost? It is all coulda shoulda woulda and depends upon the particular situation.
International politics are fake. There is a gentleman's agreement that secret services can kill “traitors” and “enemies” anywhere as long as no one objects (or the objecting country is not important enough anyway). The hirelings get the fake documents that are perfectly known to the officials to be the token of non-diplomatic immunity, and also allow them to pretend they were once again fooled by the bad foreign state. In Skripal case, killers spent the day before waiting for some agents to appear at the location to tell them to go sightseeing somewhere else. Nothing happened = UK was OK with what they were doing. Only after the fact British officials started to create a scene, and what they were worried about most was the fact that Russian officials have sold the “special” passports to way too many “irrelevant” thugs and oligarchs who wanted to be untouchable when travelling abroad (hence the leak of the existence of those passports, and silent confirmation that they were respected by so-called free and lawful countries).
You need to understand that those “above” are dumb bureaucrats playing dumb bureaucratic games. This is how societal selection works in current historical period.
As for this case, Kadyrov (or his inner circle) is known to be emo about any critic, and has been successfully killing the Chechen refugees in Europe for decades now. Ukrainians also seem to operate freely, which is a bit ironic when you remember that Ukrainian agents were taught in the same secret military schools Russian agents graduated from, and that Ukrainian oligarchs have mansions on Côte d'Azur and similar places right next to mansions of Russian oligarchs. I sometimes worry about their travel logistics in such complex times. Poor creatures!
You need to understand that those “above” are dumb bureaucrats playing dumb bureaucratic games. This is how societal selection works in current historical period.
As for this case, Kadyrov (or his inner circle) is known to be emo about any critic, and has been successfully killing the Chechen refugees in Europe for decades now. Ukrainians also seem to operate freely, which is a bit ironic when you remember that Ukrainian agents were taught in the same secret military schools Russian agents graduated from, and that Ukrainian oligarchs have mansions on Côte d'Azur and similar places right next to mansions of Russian oligarchs. I sometimes worry about their travel logistics in such complex times. Poor creatures!
There's so few gun related homicides in Poland that an execution style murder is 100% either mafia affairs or assassinations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Poland#Gun_deaths_...
[deleted]
> When the victim fell to the ground, the perpetrator approached, fired three more shots and then quickly fled the scene. Robert K died at the scene," he added.
Could have been almost anything!
Could have been almost anything!
>Kadyrov and his son Adam with pigs' snouts
My money are on the president of Chechen republic.
My money are on the president of Chechen republic.
It seems obvious enough and there's a temporal correlation, too.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrzd5g6k2o
>Video posted recently on social media showed Skrepetsky at a Russia Day protest outside the Russian embassy in Berlin on 12 June.
>He had been carrying a painting caricaturing Putin and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, as well as a Russian flag tied to his trousers that had been dragging along the road.
The Russian trolls are out in force, suggesting that he might have been killed by some confused psychos or something.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrzd5g6k2o
>Video posted recently on social media showed Skrepetsky at a Russia Day protest outside the Russian embassy in Berlin on 12 June.
>He had been carrying a painting caricaturing Putin and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, as well as a Russian flag tied to his trousers that had been dragging along the road.
The Russian trolls are out in force, suggesting that he might have been killed by some confused psychos or something.
I'm just saying I don't yet have enough information to make up my mind. Take your name calling to Reddit.
It's not name calling. Russian disinformation farms are things that exist. A bunch of people in this thread are desperately pointing fingers at Ukraine and Israel.
The article also doesn't really outline anything that makes sense as a motive. I'd imagine there are a number of artists in Poland critical of ... pretty much anyone you care to name but especially the Russian leadership. Artists are hard to please.
The article seems to be hinting this was a Russian or Belarusian assassination, which might be true. Sounds like someone assassinated him. But if so there is a big hole to fill in the story on what a plausible reason is. Based on this my first guess would be that something in his private life spilled over, but I expect there is a section of the story that isn't in the news right now.
EDIT Also related only by the vaguest vibe, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeiweiCam is more what I'd expect for artistic dissidents and is truly remarkable modern art.
The article seems to be hinting this was a Russian or Belarusian assassination, which might be true. Sounds like someone assassinated him. But if so there is a big hole to fill in the story on what a plausible reason is. Based on this my first guess would be that something in his private life spilled over, but I expect there is a section of the story that isn't in the news right now.
EDIT Also related only by the vaguest vibe, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeiweiCam is more what I'd expect for artistic dissidents and is truly remarkable modern art.
> The article also doesn't really outline anything that makes sense as a motive.
That is the whole point. You can't maintain a dictatorship if you let people get to the point of being a clear threat, because sooner or later, someone could slip through the cracks and take you out. You can't keep the leash this loose.
As a dictator, you must go after people for seemingly small things, such as merely expressing the wrong thoughts, making the wrong kind of art, and so on. That sends a message to everyone that even small transgressions carry an unacceptable risk, so if your neighbor keeps criticizing the government, maybe you should report them, not join their discussion club that may become a real political movement.
For a while after the revolution that established your regime, people are on their best behavior because you just finished summarily executing hundreds of thousands or millions for having the wrong views. But both in Russia and in China, it's been a long time since that happened, few people remember Stalin or Mao, and so you need to keep sending behavioral nudges in a different way.
Also, modern-day Russia embraces a "budget" / "disposable asset" approach to terrorism. If you're important enough, they will send an elite squad to poison you. If not, they literally recruit people on the internet to beat you up, set a warehouse on fire, etc. So you also have to look at developments like as something that's cheap and largely risk-free.
That is the whole point. You can't maintain a dictatorship if you let people get to the point of being a clear threat, because sooner or later, someone could slip through the cracks and take you out. You can't keep the leash this loose.
As a dictator, you must go after people for seemingly small things, such as merely expressing the wrong thoughts, making the wrong kind of art, and so on. That sends a message to everyone that even small transgressions carry an unacceptable risk, so if your neighbor keeps criticizing the government, maybe you should report them, not join their discussion club that may become a real political movement.
For a while after the revolution that established your regime, people are on their best behavior because you just finished summarily executing hundreds of thousands or millions for having the wrong views. But both in Russia and in China, it's been a long time since that happened, few people remember Stalin or Mao, and so you need to keep sending behavioral nudges in a different way.
Also, modern-day Russia embraces a "budget" / "disposable asset" approach to terrorism. If you're important enough, they will send an elite squad to poison you. If not, they literally recruit people on the internet to beat you up, set a warehouse on fire, etc. So you also have to look at developments like as something that's cheap and largely risk-free.
You can. Prigozhin, for example - the Russians have had an actual quasi-military revolt in recent times from someone who was publicly telegraphing that he didn't agree with the decisions being made by leadership. He was almost certainly assassinated by the Russians too. But that illustrates how real a threat has to be before it actually matters.
If this guy was having that sort of impact on the Russian discourse then the article is definitely missing a lot of important information.
If this guy was having that sort of impact on the Russian discourse then the article is definitely missing a lot of important information.
B-but Curtis Yarvin said that dictato-err, "kings" are better for freedom because they don't need to care what the public thinks! /s
The people in the tech industry who have cheered on mafia style government in the USA should move to Russia and get a taste of what it looks like in its advanced stages.
The people in the tech industry who have cheered on mafia style government in the USA should move to Russia and get a taste of what it looks like in its advanced stages.
Would it make sense to a government like that to assassinate one critic at random periodically just to keep fear high?
RIP
Edit: didn’t see him holding satirized pictures of that president, almost withdraw the question
RIP
Edit: didn’t see him holding satirized pictures of that president, almost withdraw the question
No. And pretty obviously not, look at the response. For people to hear about political assassinations it has to make the news and be widely discussed. There isn't any point murdering artists to "keep fear high", that just gives them something to create art about.
The usual tactic is to brand people as troublemakers then try and limit the news coverage they get. Or hit them with a smear campaign which is cheaper, easier and less likely to attract negative publicity like an assassination would. As a bonus the smear approach also directly discredits the message they were spreading.
The usual tactic is to brand people as troublemakers then try and limit the news coverage they get. Or hit them with a smear campaign which is cheaper, easier and less likely to attract negative publicity like an assassination would. As a bonus the smear approach also directly discredits the message they were spreading.
While this did make the news I suppose not widely enough.
Have you seen this kind of reporting?-
> Russia is ramping up its attempts to kill opponents in Europe, intelligence officials say https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/russia-ramping-attempts...
Could they please get back to smearing (or even… ADDING value to the world! once they have a better leader for their good people)
Have you seen this kind of reporting?-
> Russia is ramping up its attempts to kill opponents in Europe, intelligence officials say https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/russia-ramping-attempts...
Could they please get back to smearing (or even… ADDING value to the world! once they have a better leader for their good people)
> The article also doesn't really outline anything that makes sense as a motive.
False. The article makes it very clear what would make sense as a motive here.
False. The article makes it very clear what would make sense as a motive here.
[deleted]
Putin is uncowed, clearly. It's hard to know what the truth of things is. It's clear he's on his back heels in Ukraine and at home, but perhaps he still holds a strong position.
Who knows how these hits happen? Maybe the artist had a green light for a while but they hadn't been able to get a good opportunity. Do they operate like military or gangsters? I have a hard time telling the difference sometimes.
Are there mercenaries all over the world willing to kill for money from the various superpowers?
Or is it a more direct operation planned and executed in one sequence by intelligence members?
Are there mercenaries all over the world willing to kill for money from the various superpowers?
Or is it a more direct operation planned and executed in one sequence by intelligence members?
I agree with your points, but I would prefer a world where Putin would say "call this off, it's too risky given the enmity we've fostered."
throwaw12(3)
wiseowise(1)
hereme888(2)
Nothing to see here guys, we have already arrested the perpetrators, move along and hail Putin.
No, I'm shocked, I tell ya ... SHOCKED!
I want to believe.
https://vimeo.com/940390507
https://vimeo.com/940390507
> Semyon Skrepetsky (born Robert Kuzovkov), a native of the Altai region, was known for his caricatures of politicians. He had drawn satirical portraits of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, and the late Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. According to iStories, Skrepetsky had also criticized Ukrainian authorities and was listed in Ukraine’s Myrotvorets database, which designates individuals accused of crimes against Ukrainian national security.
Misleading title.
Misleading title.