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ethanbond

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ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Yes, breach of contract, especially when you’re circumventing controls specifically designed to prevent the thing you’re doing.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
What is up with this meme around here? Of course terms of service are legally binding. They're a contract.

It is possible to put unenforceable terms in a TOS, but it's simply untrue that "TOSes are not legally binding."

What do you think is the distinction between a legally binding contract and a TOS?
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
At least in US law, that's overridable by EULAs, TOS, T&C's, etc: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/What-were-the-5N_SjNVpRTOJr...

Not quite a carte blanche protection in the EU, either.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Every attack ever uses something that can be described as "official channels." It's all in the code, after all. As Apple's response makes clear, this is indeed not via the official channels.

"Authorization" in the legal sense != authorization in the cryptographic sense. You can get a token and still be not legally authorized to access a system.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
So because of this you're more likely to purchase an Android product on your next device refresh? I don't see how that logic works out... "My family shouldn't have to use the inferior protocol, so next chance I get I'm going to switch myself to that protocol?"
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
That's not generally true in practice. Especially when it is marketed to end users as a TOS-violating product and doubly so when it was originally a commercialized product.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
I have no clue, I'm not an engineer at Apple, that's why I trust them to make that determination (and again, not Beeper).
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Under this logic, no hacking would ever be illegal. After all, there's obviously no way any attacker ever did anything the code actually made impossible.

Fortunately, courts aren't computers, judges aren't compilers, and legal code isn't a programming language.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
> Reverse engineering for the purpose of interoperability is explicitly allowed.

In Apple's iMessage TOS? I don't find that likely but open to being wrong.

> Also, breaking the TOS is usually not illegal

In general, contracts are legally binding, therefore breaking them is illegal. Sometimes contracts include clauses that can't be legally binding, but I don't think a TOS forbidding this type of behavior would be questionable in the slightest. Apple obviously has no obligation to allow anyone to use its platform as a backend for their own (previously commercialized) product.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Either they're authorized to use the service and (almost certainly) signed a TOS, or they're not, in which case they're using the service unauthorized.

Not a lawyer but I don't see what else could be true here. I suppose you could say the end users are the ones violating the TOS? I don't think it'll land with any judge, "your honor we just did the reverse engineering (without signing a TOS) and sold it to our users (who did sign a TOS, but didn't reverse engineer), so we're all clean."
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
I trust Apple to make that determination, not someone reverse engineering Apple's APIs.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Does this make you less likely to purchase an Apple device in the future?

TBC, I also don't necessarily view this as a positive. I just don't see it as a negative whatsoever. It would be nice to be able to chat with Android friends over iMessage, but it's not offputting at all that an outside company trying to monetize reverse-engineered "hacks" onto the protocol are getting booted.

(Yes I know it's not "hacking," but it is obviously hacky)
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
I pay Apple to manage my mobile device experience. That is literally why they demand and receive a premium over the alternatives. Why do you think Apple customers are some helpless and ignorant victim, and not people specifically placing their bets with a company that has delivered exceptional products at the expense of rather fringe philosophical views on "openness?" I don't care about "openness" nor taking down "corporate greed" in this context, I care about having a great experience using my own mobile device.

FWIW there was an era where I felt differently. I was very active in the early Android jailbreak community. It was fun and the freedom has benefits, but those are benefits that I've deliberately chosen to give up for the benefits of the other end of the spectrum. I wasn't tricked into giving them up and neither was anyone else: people are paying Apple for the experience Apple is trusted to deliver. The reason people trust them is because they deliver it. It's super simple.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
We do: SMS

It's just worse than the alternative that Apple provides for its own ecosystem of users. Any Apple user is free to opt for that more universal system if they want.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
"No reverse engineering" is a pretty standard TOS item.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
I don't think this is painting Apple in a negative light for their actual customers, who pay them money. It's painting them in a negative light for a small segment of Android users who obviously are unlikely to switch to Apple anyway.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Try Endel! Works great for this type of stuff IMO.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Layers work to the degree that you don't need to be a subatomic particle physicist to write this comment.

There are good abstractions and bad ones, all with varying degrees of leakiness and sharp corners. The good ones definitionally prevent you from needing to understand much about what they're abstracting.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
> To successfully use an abstraction, you need to understand the problem the abstraction is trying to solve and also understand how the abstraction has solved the problem.

What? This seems like the exact wrong way to view abstractions and in fact, you view it the right way even if you think you view it the (silly) way above.

The whole point of abstraction -- not just in software but in everything in the universe -- is that you do not have to know or care about the underlying facts.

The whole stack is abstractions all the way down to the sub-atomic level, so it's obviously untenable for "correct usage" to require knowing the lower levels. Just like you (correctly) don't need to understand structural engineering or wood's growth patterns to sit in a chair made of wood.

It's very useful to know a few layers below the layer at which you primarily operate, but that is a very different from the claim up top.
ethanbond
·3 tahun yang lalu·discuss
Ah yes, all the stress relieved. If you miss your first shot you can just sign up to get shot at* and then you might get another shot!

* yes, I know very very very few service members ever get shot at