I’d agree, though maybe there’s a more charitable reading of the OP - “uninformed” is one of those accusations that it’s rarely very polite or fair to level against an individual but sometimes is reasonable against a group based on observation. My experience would be that it’s true that “devs says lots of uninformed things” - and I’d include myself in that. It’s been my experience that it’s particularly tough in this space at this time because:
1. Tooling is changing very fast but people tend to form sticky opinions (reasonably enough - there’s only so much time in the world).
2. It’s just hard to form robust objective opinions - you have to make a real effort to build test cases and evaluation processes and generally the barrier to entry there is pretty high.
So - I agree, calling people uninformed is not a great way to win them over, but maybe that’s the price of living in a world of anecdotes which become fixed in people’s minds.
And this has been comparing like for like with CC - say Opus 4.6 on the same reasoning effort? Hasn’t been my experience particularly but fair enough. I do tend to use them in different situations (CC outside of work).
If you could share I’d be really interested in hearing a concrete example of the two behaving differently. I work in Microsoft (not on copilot - though I’m an heavy user, and use Claude code in a personal capacity) and would be quite happy to repro and report back to the copilot cli team who are responsive.
Back in 2012 after 8 months across Asia (through Turkey, Iran, India, Nepal, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Hong King) we took a flight to Buenos Aires (well, via SF for a weekend) then went entirely overland:
- Buenos Aires
- Puerto Madryn
- Ushuaia
- El Calafate
- El Chalten
- Bariloche
- El Bolson
- Mendoza
- Salta
- El Cafayate
- Into Bolivia…
- La Quiaca
- Tupiza
- Salar de Uniyi
- Sucre
- La Paz
- Copabanca
- Isla Del Sol
- Into Peru!
- Puno
- Cusco
- Aguas Calientes
- Arequipa
- Tacna
- Into Chile!
- San Pedro de Atacama
- Into Argentina
- Salta
- Puerto Iguazú
- Into Brazil
- Foz do Iguaçu
- Rio de Janeiro
- Ihla Grande
- Paraty
- San Paulo
- Home (via Amsterdam)!
I’m glad we did it when we were younger - golden years.
> In other words, that usage you like is costing them tons of money
Evidence? I’m sure someone will argue, but I think it’s generally accepted that inference can be done profitably at this point. The cost for equivalent capability is also plummeting.
If this is like the flow it uses for a codex / ChatGPT subscription it doesn’t even register a handler - the redirect opens as a 404 in your browser and there are instructions in copying the token from the query string!
Interesting - these head to head comparisons you’re doing with the same model - what harnesses are you comparing, say Claude code / codex versus copilot cli?
> I'm not sure if its understood how bad it really is within the org.
I can’t speak to that, but there’s a lively culture of people using internal tooling who also extensively use 3p products on projects outside work and are in a reasonable position to assess how well GH copilot works.
Sure I love Claude Code too - I use it plenty outside of work. But funnily enough I’ve been asking myself about whether to get my org on board with internal Claude Code trials and was struggling to truly articulate what we were losing versus the Copilot cli. There are some feature gaps - but the pace of work is super and experience is pretty good for me.
No one should hit Microsoft over the head for giving people access to Claude code - choice and competition is good!
I’d suggest doing some research on software quality. Two years back I was all for buying one (I was considering an EX40), but I got myself into some Facebook groups for owners and was shocked at the dreadful reports of quality of the software and it completely put me off. I got an ID4 instead. Reports about the EX90 have been dreadful. I was very interested, and I still admire their look and build when they drive by - but it killed my enthusiasm to buy one for a few years until they get it right.
Agreed that it can work well, but it can also irritating - I find myself using private conversations to attempt to isolate them, a straightforward per-chat toggle for memory use would be nice.