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kemarin duludiscuss

> And I am not advocating for anything

Reading your original comment, you're very heavily implying it, and trying to guilt people who don't agree with you:

>> Telling people not to be political is a political act – specifically, one that accepts whatever comes, doesn't care about power, is happy with whoever rules whom and how justly. Those are your politics, or at least sufficiently so that you're happy to park those issues while discussing tech. They aren't everyone's. You can turn off the non-technical comments by ignoring them.

And this:

> I am pointing out the contradiction of the proposal to ban politics on topics that are politically charged.

Is incorrect, as repeatedly brought up, because (1) saying "there is a forum for politics, and it isn't here" is not a political statement and (2) nobody advocated for a ban specifically on topics that are politically charged - that's your moving the goalposts.

kemarin duludiscuss

> The guidelines do not say "do not discuss politics". They say no political or ideological battles.

Yes, and HN seems to be incapable of following that rule, so advocating for an outright ban on politics is extremely appropriate.

> And no-one is talking about inserting politics into every discussion.

My comment very clearly says "into every forum". You are advocating for the insertion of politics into every forum.

kemarin duludiscuss

> Telling people not to be political is a political act

There's a place for politics - which is not here, if you read the guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Only an extremely socially maladjusted individual tries to insert politics (or, any particular topic) into every forum/discussion that they're in.

kemarin duludiscuss

> So depressing to read the non-stop political comments here.

Moderation can be improved by the community. Downvote political comments to show that they're not welcome. Flag them if they break the guidelines (which is almost always, because the purpose of HN is almost exactly anti-political). If there's a particularly egregious comment, or a user who's on a jihad, then contact [email protected].

"The standard you walk past is the standard you accept."

kemarin duludiscuss

I think I might agree, but just so we're clear: what exactly is a "techno-sycophant"?

kemarin duludiscuss

You clearly have both zero exposure to any sort of Eastern culture, and you also didn't read any of the sources in that Wikipedia page - and instead of doing either of those (because you know that if you do, you'll be proven wrong and/or have to content with cognitive dissonance), you're trying to catch me with a gotcha. It's clear you're not operating in good faith - any person genuinely trying to understand would do one of those things, and you're not.

> Maybe you’re picking and choosing media to reinforce your inner biases?

You think that I chose to watch thousands of hours of media, not for entertainment, but specifically to deluse myself into a very specific and niche bias that the vast majority of people don't even have a mental framework to conceptualize and never comes up in casual conversation or has any relevance to my daily life? Congratulations, that's one of the most insane accusations I've ever seen on the internet.

kemarin duludiscuss

I see that you also forked Pi itself[1]. Out of curiosity, is there a reason you did this instead of implementing those two features in your fork as Pi extensions?

I've managed to implement most of the things I want in Pi through extensions - with one exception (disabling animations, because there's no extension API or setting for that).

[1] https://github.com/atharva-again/pi

3 hari yang laludiscuss

Yes, and if you think it's not feasible, you failed the critical thinking test. Balloons have the ability to observe signals that satellites do not. It's that simple.

3 hari yang laludiscuss

> I am pointing out the whole ‘losing face’ thing exists in the west too.

Yes, in the sense that a bicycle and a Formula F1 are both wheeled modes of transportation.

I never said that western cultures don't have the concept of pride - just that it's categorically different in eastern cultures.

This is both extremely well academically supported[1] and immediately obvious to anyone who has nontrivial exposure to most eastern cultures (including, specifically, Chinese culture).

Furthermore, the punishment of Chelsea manning is clearly irrelevant for multiple different reasons:

1. Specific instances are not reflective of a general pattern

2. Manning and Assange were instances of leakers of classified information, which is a separate category from merely "losing face"

3. There's a consistent pattern of the US government prosecuting leakers of classified information[2] and search for even when there's zero media exposure, which conclusively disproves the "its just saving face" theory

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)#Re...

[2] https://www.justice.gov/news/press-releases?search_api_fullt...

3 hari yang laludiscuss

There's no "in my estimation" - this is a well-researched topic and the vast majority of sociologists agree that there is a major cultural difference between the two, starting with the fact that "keeping up with the Joneses" is an individual act of pride vs "saving face" in China not only involves individual pride of an objectively greater magnitude, but also a collective pride that is rare in Western cultures and almost unheard of in highly individualistic cultures like the United States.

For understanding this better - you can try to read the Wikipedia page on the concept of face ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept) ), but part of my point is that academic/intellectual understanding is a really poor substitute for experience in this domain, and reading a page allows for intellectual disagreement that is literally inconsistent with reality - experience forces you to directly confront that reality.

I'd suggest watching a few hundred hours of media from several different Eastern cultures (I personally like a mix between Japanese, Korean, and Chinese television shows - they each have their own memetics and charm and can be highly enjoyable - but most forms of media should give you the same experience as long as it's diverse enough).

3 hari yang laludiscuss

You are straight-up lying about my own words. Yes, you are both, and thank you for conclusively discrediting your own position instead of responding with something that'd actually require effort to dispute (such as a logical argument based on facts).

3 hari yang laludiscuss

...no? Not that the answer to that question is even relevant to the comment I actually wrote.

3 hari yang laludiscuss

> a society that values appearances and will do a lot to protect face

Read my comment again, carefully, and you'll understand that your response is unrelated to my point.

Also: all of these things exist in large, industrialized Eastern nations too. You've clearly never lived in any of those places or even had tangential exposure to their culture. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that - just understand that you are exactly the kind of person who is going to have the hardest time understanding the cultural difference - which is part of my point.

3 hari yang laludiscuss

> pretty much what you tried to imply

Ahhh, the propagandist's classic tactic - when unable to muster even the feeblest possible response to an argument, just make up things and pretend that the other party said them.

Fact: I said nothing of the sort. You are lying.

> owning up

I have nothing to own up to because I said nothing of the sort, and anyone with basic reading skills can see that.

> clarifying

I was exactly as clear as I needed to be. I do not need to provide every single possible hedge on my statements. It is ok to not be perfectly clear and disclaim every negative, and this is now normal, sane, socially well-adjusted people behave.

It is completely unacceptable (and more than a little psychotic) to take that ambiguity and interpret it in the worst possible way.

It is downright evil to then defend that malicious misinterpretation instead of apologizing.

You are evil.

3 hari yang laludiscuss

You got it. I'm not saying that saving face is the only cultural priority - just that it's a much greater one than in most Western cultures - and most Westerners don't understand that, and that leads to misunderstanding of the mindset and rationale for actions and decisions.

3 hari yang laludiscuss

> Ah, the old “only western people have morals, everyone else just cares about how it looks” argument.

That's not even remotely close to what I said. You should read the comment you're responding before responding with ignorant and blatantly manipulative falsehoods.

> And where did you get this super objective assessment that eastern peoples only care about “saving face”?

Again - never said anything like that. Learn to read.

> The racists

Actually, learn to think. This has absolutely nothing to do with race, as anyone who has passed high school can tell you. This claim is straight-up objectively false.

The second you start slinging the word "racist" around you immediately prove that you have zero valid points to give and are just trying to cry your way into acceptance. Which correlates with the rest of this post.

This is either a troll post, written by a middle-schooler, or blatant propaganda.

3 hari yang laludiscuss

Nowhere did I say that Western countries don't care about saving face - it's just not a deeply embedded cultural priority that is nearly as valued as it is in many Eastern cultures (including, relevantly, China).

3 hari yang laludiscuss

That's one of the big cultural differences that people from the West don't really get - that "saving face" is one of the core concepts that Eastern societies are built on - not the actual things that, when discovered, cause you to lose face (e.g. corruption).

4 hari yang laludiscuss

"Criticizing a common pattern of thought that I observe" is just weasel language for strawmanning and/or ad hominem. Your initial comment is extremely uncharitable, breaks a ton of HN rules, and is completely fallacious with zero (edit: negative, because it actively degrades discourse on HN) value to it. Suggest not doing that.

Your comment trying to defend yourself is also full of fallacies and emotional manipulation. Don't do that either.

5 hari yang laludiscuss

I would love to see something like the Nutrition Facts label that states IN BLACK AND WHITE ALL CAPS THAT THE COMPANY CAN (NOT) RESCIND THE LICENSE AT ANY TIME. If the fact is very blatantly shown on the marketing/packaging instead of being relegated to tiny fine print, buyers will pay a lot more attention.