Ask HN: The best way to put technical skills to the greater good?
What's the best way to contribute technical skills to the greater good? How can hackers keep their day jobs but contribute skills/time/energy to good causes too?
48 comments
"Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-Howard Thurmon
-Howard Thurmon
Sounds too good to be true, and by golly, it is! What makes me come alive is writing fiction. This is not what the world most needs from me.
Not everything that sounds like deep wisdom is wise.
Not everything that sounds like deep wisdom is wise.
Yeah, all those damn authors who wasted their lives writing supposedly great works of fiction like Ulysses and The Grapes of Wrath and A Tale of Two Cities. They should have been digging ditches in Africa or volunteering at their local soup kitchen or whatever.
Give me a break. You think the world is really better served by you giving up on your dreams? It's a good thing not everything felt as you did or the world would be pretty bleak indeed.
Give me a break. You think the world is really better served by you giving up on your dreams? It's a good thing not everything felt as you did or the world would be pretty bleak indeed.
"They should have been digging ditches in Africa or volunteering at their local soup kitchen or whatever."
No, what they should have done is written their books, then donated a large fraction of the money they earned from writing them. If you're that good of an author (keeping in mind that 99.99% of people aren't), you can help the world a lot more that way than by volunteering at soup kitchens.
"It's a good thing not everything felt as you did or the world would be pretty bleak indeed."
If everyone felt as Eliezer did- that it was better to spend at least some effort doing what the world needed most, rather than what happened to feel good- then maybe we would not have hundreds of millions of people in constant danger of starvation.
No, what they should have done is written their books, then donated a large fraction of the money they earned from writing them. If you're that good of an author (keeping in mind that 99.99% of people aren't), you can help the world a lot more that way than by volunteering at soup kitchens.
"It's a good thing not everything felt as you did or the world would be pretty bleak indeed."
If everyone felt as Eliezer did- that it was better to spend at least some effort doing what the world needed most, rather than what happened to feel good- then maybe we would not have hundreds of millions of people in constant danger of starvation.
If everyone felt as Eliezer did- that it was better to spend at least some effort doing what the world needed most, rather than what happened to feel good- then maybe we would not have hundreds of millions of people in constant danger of starvation.
I sincerely doubt it. What has charity really done for starvation and poverty? There's only one thing that has ultimately had a big, lasting effect on those things: capitalism. I'm sure many will disagree, but I'd like to see the evidence that giving $1m to developing economies has more effect than investing $1m in businesses in those economies that can then grow and hire more workers.
I don't presently see the case for charity, but I'd like to see more data on the subject.
I sincerely doubt it. What has charity really done for starvation and poverty? There's only one thing that has ultimately had a big, lasting effect on those things: capitalism. I'm sure many will disagree, but I'd like to see the evidence that giving $1m to developing economies has more effect than investing $1m in businesses in those economies that can then grow and hire more workers.
I don't presently see the case for charity, but I'd like to see more data on the subject.
Then substitute "invested" for "donated". Or, hell, "invested in figuring out how best to help developing countries" (like http://www.givewell.net/). The stereotypical ways to help people do tend to suck (lending the original quote much of its plausibility), but there are other options.
But that's my point: they're not the same thing. The primary motivation for an investment is what I get out of it. If it helps other people, that's great, but I'm after a great return. And the reality is that this self-motivated economic system has done more to help the less fortunate that any direct action designed to help them.
Giving up my dreams? I refer you to http://yudkowsky.net/.
Umm...congratulations? Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Your earlier statement was:
What makes me come alive is writing fiction. This is not what the world most needs from me.
But now you're linking to this site as proof that you haven't given up your dreams? So which is your dream?
And regardless, my point is just that if writing fiction is what makes you come alive, what truly makes you happy, are you so certain that you're going to make more of a difference in the long run doing something else?
What makes me come alive is writing fiction. This is not what the world most needs from me.
But now you're linking to this site as proof that you haven't given up your dreams? So which is your dream?
And regardless, my point is just that if writing fiction is what makes you come alive, what truly makes you happy, are you so certain that you're going to make more of a difference in the long run doing something else?
In the discussion that followed the video answers entry on lesswrong, Wei Dai quoted Eliezer: "I have to remind myself that it's not what's the most fun to do, it's not even what you have talent to do, it's what you need to do that you ought to be doing."
Eliezer presumably means that time is in short supply, and that every month's advance toward AI has the potential to save a great many people. Plenty enough time to write a novel after we crack that nut, but there's no time now.
Eliezer presumably means that time is in short supply, and that every month's advance toward AI has the potential to save a great many people. Plenty enough time to write a novel after we crack that nut, but there's no time now.
Unless, of course, the following things make you come alive: torturing small animals, clear-cutting forests, running Ponzi schemes, igniting bombs near daycares, exploiting poor people in the developing world, taking advantage of the mentally disabled, or any of the other thousands of activities that surely some people enjoy, but we don't think contribute to the greater good.
You could pull a Dexter and only clear-cut the bad forests.
I absolutely agree.
Don't do what you think you should do but what you can't not do.
There's that thing for each of us.
Don't do what you think you should do but what you can't not do.
There's that thing for each of us.
Build something people want.
Whether or not that's your day job or not is immaterial.
My favorite parable about the societal role of an engineer's technical skills is this story about Steve Jobs:
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...
Steve's pitch is an attempt to capture the essential paradox of engineering: You have a lot more leverage than you think, or even than you can believe. When you improve (say) the Linux kernel, you improve a lot of people's lives, and they in turn improve other lives.
Even trivial things improve people's lives. I watched the Ig Nobel Prize committee award a prize to the Japanese electrical engineer/jazz musician who invented karaoke. It was a surprisingly touching moment.
Whether or not that's your day job or not is immaterial.
My favorite parable about the societal role of an engineer's technical skills is this story about Steve Jobs:
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...
Steve's pitch is an attempt to capture the essential paradox of engineering: You have a lot more leverage than you think, or even than you can believe. When you improve (say) the Linux kernel, you improve a lot of people's lives, and they in turn improve other lives.
Even trivial things improve people's lives. I watched the Ig Nobel Prize committee award a prize to the Japanese electrical engineer/jazz musician who invented karaoke. It was a surprisingly touching moment.
* I do a lot of work with IT4C[1] here in the UK.
Its basically a listings board where charities advertise for tech people to help them.
Through various "Meet the Charities" nights I've met lots of charity founders and I help them in detail. Some charities are looking for any sort of help available, not merely tech.
* I help out old aged homes installing easy to use computers for their occupants.
* I write software for disabled people to interact with the computer more easily (my cousins child has quadraplegic cerabral palsy)
--------------
[1] http://www.it4communities.org.uk/it4c/home/index.jsp
Its basically a listings board where charities advertise for tech people to help them.
Through various "Meet the Charities" nights I've met lots of charity founders and I help them in detail. Some charities are looking for any sort of help available, not merely tech.
* I help out old aged homes installing easy to use computers for their occupants.
* I write software for disabled people to interact with the computer more easily (my cousins child has quadraplegic cerabral palsy)
--------------
[1] http://www.it4communities.org.uk/it4c/home/index.jsp
I've always thought that the best way to put your technical skills to the greater good is through your day job, not instead of it.
Some of my days jobs have been to write software to ensure that:
OTOH, if you don't think that the work you do during the day contributes to the greater good, then maybe you should consider doing something else with your valuable time.
Do good and get paid. You can do both at the same time.
Some of my days jobs have been to write software to ensure that:
- people get the right prescription medication on time
- firetrucks and ambulances get to where they're supposed to be
- parts that go into cars and planes are properly certified
- prisoners are kept in jail
- those same prisoners get proper medical care
- electronic equipment gets assembled properly and on time
- medical supplies get dispatched to where they're supposed to
- insurance claims are processed properly
- quality data is properly maintained for food items
OTOH, if you don't think that the work you do during the day contributes to the greater good, then maybe you should consider doing something else with your valuable time.
Do good and get paid. You can do both at the same time.
Absolutely. My day job does make the world a better place. But it doesn't resolve a lot of the very serious issues in the world.
So what serious issues did you have in mind? Or are you shopping for $MEANINGFUL_LIFE?
Sorry if this feels a bit pointed, but a meaningful life is not something that others can give you, or even recommend to you. I could tell you that third world literacy is the number one cause you should support, but that's what I believe.
Figure out the causes that matter to you, research those, then maybe you'll find some angle of attack.
Incidentally, a guy who did this wrote a book "Leaving Microsoft to Change the World". He was a marketing guy, but he does run his charity with a lot of the style of a tech company. Maybe that book will give you ideas.
http://www.leavingmicrosoftbook.com/
Sorry if this feels a bit pointed, but a meaningful life is not something that others can give you, or even recommend to you. I could tell you that third world literacy is the number one cause you should support, but that's what I believe.
Figure out the causes that matter to you, research those, then maybe you'll find some angle of attack.
Incidentally, a guy who did this wrote a book "Leaving Microsoft to Change the World". He was a marketing guy, but he does run his charity with a lot of the style of a tech company. Maybe that book will give you ideas.
http://www.leavingmicrosoftbook.com/
I also think my day job does make the world a better place, but that is very different from volunteering specifically to make it better without cost to anyone else.
I’m working to startup a web service called Catchafire that connects professionals who want to volunteer their skills with non-profits and social ventures who need them. Catchafire just finished a pilot program in NYC – I was able volunteer my tech skills then and it was a great experience – and we’re currently working on alpha. We’re always looking out for development help, so feel free to contact me (info in my profile) if you’re interested or have questions or suggestions.
Has anyone else on HN been able to volunteer tech skills directly? What was your experience?
Has anyone else on HN been able to volunteer tech skills directly? What was your experience?
After the dot-com bust I spent a few years traveling and ruminating. But I also tried volunteering. I talked to the San Francisco Public Library, the Red Cross and a short list of other organizations. I offered a large block of time (up to 6 mos) and any kind of product or technical help up to engineering management.
I got very nice responses from folks in these orgs who'd clearly dealt with prior attempted tech volunteers. Each explained how they weren't built to accept this kind of help. At the bottom of chart, there was an endless need and clean ability for rotating staff. But in the middle? Not so much. Too many egos, difficult knowledge transfer, etc.
I wish you better luck. There's clearly a support problem to crack.
I got very nice responses from folks in these orgs who'd clearly dealt with prior attempted tech volunteers. Each explained how they weren't built to accept this kind of help. At the bottom of chart, there was an endless need and clean ability for rotating staff. But in the middle? Not so much. Too many egos, difficult knowledge transfer, etc.
I wish you better luck. There's clearly a support problem to crack.
What a generous offer! Thanks for sharing your experience. One of the key things Catchafire is hoping to do is guide non-profits to determine discrete, short-term projects. Clear goals help them get organized and have been proven to facilitate quality volunteer experiences. Obviously, though, it's not an easy thing to accomplish.
Alas, they want full-time personnel from Jan-Nov 2011. I often have 30 days at a stretch I could dedicate, but that's a bit much. (And the original poster asks about extracurricular specifically.)
That said, thanks for mentioning it. A revolving door to municipal groups with some support structure could get interesting.
That said, thanks for mentioning it. A revolving door to municipal groups with some support structure could get interesting.
Wikileaks were recently looking for some technical help.
Digital Divide Data
http://www.digitaldividedata.com
They are a nonprofit in Cambodia and Laos who hire and train the disabled - people who otherwise would not have ANY job - to do data entry and other outsourced IT.
And they're always looking for technical minded people to help out, either remotely or (even better) on site in Southeast Asia.
My wife and I volunteered there for 18 months in 2003-2004, and it was the experience of a lifetime. Please check them out.
And thanks for the opportunity (rare on most forums) to plug a good cause!
They are a nonprofit in Cambodia and Laos who hire and train the disabled - people who otherwise would not have ANY job - to do data entry and other outsourced IT.
And they're always looking for technical minded people to help out, either remotely or (even better) on site in Southeast Asia.
My wife and I volunteered there for 18 months in 2003-2004, and it was the experience of a lifetime. Please check them out.
And thanks for the opportunity (rare on most forums) to plug a good cause!
Learn to think better. (www.lesswrong.com is a good place to start, especially the sequences.) Learn new skills. Learn how the world works by reading books that challenge you and by seeking new experiences. Work outside your standard identity. Also, simply be kinder and better to the people around you in your personal life, especially your children, and be less conformist but more results oriented (most non-conformity tends to involve working from an ideology rather than trying to accomplish good).
Check your local papers for volunteer opportunities. If you are located near a big city, some of the local non-profits/government funded groups may be looking for assistance with social marketing, web development, marketing, etc.. These are usually part-time, low pay (or even no pay) jobs, but are great opportunities to build your portfolio, skills, and make invaluable connections/references. You can also occasionally get free press out of the deal depending on the organization.
One software problem yo can try to solve: micro finance institutions are in dire need of good systems. Many of them run on excel and have a horrible time keeping track of data. If they need to generate a report, they often have someone doing it by hand and the data comes back jumbled up. This hurts their operations as well as prevents them from getting funding. Many of them are small and can't afford good systems or to hire any developers.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/1hn/call_for_new_siai_visiting_fello...
"At bottom, we’re looking for anyone who:
"At bottom, we’re looking for anyone who:
* Is capable (strong ability to get things done);
* Seriously aspires to rationality; and
* Is passionate about reducing existential risk.
"Hackers for Charity! http://www.hackersforcharity.org/
I also have a friend who runs a non-profit called Caring Compy: http://caringcompy.blogspot.com/
There's a ton of things you can do to better yourself, and the world.
I also have a friend who runs a non-profit called Caring Compy: http://caringcompy.blogspot.com/
There's a ton of things you can do to better yourself, and the world.
I'm currently hiring a small team of developers at Philanthrokidz, a new startup in Waterloo, Ontario. If you've got programming chops and want to use them to make the world a better place, drop me a line. My email's in my profile (behind a CAPCHA).
http://philanthrokidz.com
http://philanthrokidz.com
Assuming your technical skill is related to software: More and more non profits, charities, and even for profit companies that are serving the greater good, are using a lot of open source. Contributing to, or improving, open source projects is one way to make a difference.
First, make sure your own responsibilities are under control so you don't become a drain on society. Next, volunteer your time - maybe as part of an open source project, something you think is valuable.
http://www.givewell.net/giving101/Changing-Someones-Life
You can save someone's life for under $1,000.
You can save someone's life for under $1,000.
I've always wanted to use my web skills to create a site that generates revenue for a charity. Perfect example: http://www.freerice.com
Who do you want to help? Human beings? Animals? Plants? Progress? Life in General? Exploring?
What is a good cause for you?
What is a good cause for you?
http://www.volunteermatch.org/ is another one.
Not to mention that anyone who is a web jack-of-all-trades should find plenty of work with local nonprofits.
Not to mention that anyone who is a web jack-of-all-trades should find plenty of work with local nonprofits.
Volunteer Match is great.. I worked with a non-profit to redesign their web site and it was a great experience.
+1. Used idealist in 2002-2003-2004 to line up technical volunteer jobs in Uganda, Cambodia, and Peru.
come help the Sunlight Foundation. Please!
http://sunlightlabs.com
http://sunlightlabs.com
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Build a startup that creates revenue for both yourself and your clients. Employ people, get your clients more capital to employ people themselves because of what you can do for them, and help reinvigorate America's economy.
In a capitalist country, the best way to contribute to the greater good is through productivity and excellence.
In a capitalist country, the best way to contribute to the greater good is through productivity and excellence.
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Giving free courses / seminars on how to prevent computer fraud. (Like explaining "password", "phishing", ect pp)